111 réponses à ce sujet

[Rogue Unit]

Its funny how people feel like Hawke, a normal guy just trying to look out for his family, should be averting wars and stopping assassinations. Only once he is Champion does he hold some accountability but never before. I'd like to see you guys get out there and end some wars before they happen. Hawke's charm is that he is a normal citizen like everyone else, yet when something happens in Kirkwall (like the qunari invading) he deals with overwhelming circumstances and is still standing.

[helpthisguyplease]

Its funny how people feel like Hawke, a normal guy just trying to look out for his family, should be averting wars and stopping assassinations. Only once he is Champion does he hold some accountability but never before. I'd like to see you guys get out there and end some wars before they happen. Hawke's charm is that he is a normal citizen like everyone else, yet when something happens in Kirkwall (like the qunari invading) he deals with overwhelming circumstances and is still standing.

Most people and when I say most people i do not mean 51% I mean like 80% avoid conflict and when faced with flight or fight they chose flight. Changes happened because the few that act to do them.

[Umaya]

The warden is basically a god slayer.
The inquisitor has a glowing hand.

Hawke just through jokes here and there.

[Sifr]

Petrice was alone in a shack with a single bodyguard, we've taken on tougher fights. She mader her intentions very clear, if she never left that shack alive many lives would be the better for it.

I don't really give a damn about the collateral damage of exposing the spies, when compared to the collateral damage of the war to follow and the even more devistating of an effect the Qunari will have with the intel from their spies

Hawke doesn't stop a single Templar in a shack again. Because the plot demands it and because he's a pathetic idiot

Hawke saved the lives of the majority of the cities nobles, has their favor, is esentially among their rank and it is clearly stated by Varric is the most powerful person in the city besides Meredith. But he just let her illegally assume as much power and authority as he could and did absolutely nothing to stop her, no words, nothing. For 3 freaking years. then the most he is willing to offer is a few words 3 years down the line.

Considering none of those Tevinter and Qunari were attaking you initially, and didn't even notice you were there then no, he didn't have better things to do.

 

While she's a smug snake, Petrice isn't that stupid to not have some kind of backup plan to fall back on. She walked into an ambush to be "rescued", but it's made clear after we do so that, that she already had Varnell hanging back that could have done so if we failed to intervene, or tried to mug her ourselves. Unless you're assuming that Petrice and Varnell dumped the bodies of the karataam that Ketojan belonged to for the Arvaraad to find (unlikely because they hired us precisely so they could not been seen and thus have deniability), then she obviously has more conspirators involved. Killing Petrice and Varnell wouldn't have changed anything and could have lead to reprisals, since even with our trip through the undercity to avoid drawing attention, the death of Arvaraad and the gangs would have been noticed. That you can tell the Arishok what happened means that people would have known of Hawke's involvement.

 

It's entirely possible that the exposure of the list and the outing of the spies would have forced the Qunari to accelerate their invasion plans, before the rest of Thedas are able to shore up defences, tighten security and render all that information useless to the Qunari. While this only delays the inevitable conflict, isn't it better to allow the Qunari to continue twiddling their thumbs as they have been for a couple centuries, rather than force them onto the offensive? And if that explanation is not to your liking... well, considering that Hawke just fought off a giant Wyvern and Duke Prosper, who's to say they weren't simply too knackered to argue when Tallis wanted to take the list?

 

But now that Bethany has been outed as a Mage, the genie is already out of the bottle. Even if Hawke had stopped Cullen from taking her (and assuming there aren't a number of Templars outside just in case), this would require the family fleeing from Kirkwall to escape, something none of them want to do. As I said before, this also requires Hawke ignoring the wishes of Bethany who herself wanted to go into the Circle. Numerous times in Act 1 we hear her curious about the Circle and wondering if it'd be so bad, so that heavily hints that she might have contacted them herself.

 

Despite Hawke winning the popularity contest and some of the nobles wanting them to become the new Viscount, the fact remains that Meredith holds all the power in the city, including the entire Templar order stationed there. Even if Hawke spoke out against her, what good would that have done without any kind of military force at their side to attempt to oust her from power? Hawke wanted to keep the peace in Kirkwall, not start a civil war for control of the city.

 

You mean, for the two seconds before they start attacking Hawke and the party? It's not like Hawke had time to explain to the various people trying to kill them that they really weren't after the book for themselves. Furthermore, aren't we forgetting that one of the party did happen to go after the book... it's just that it was Isabela, who proceeded to do a runner immediately after getting it? Unless we're supposed to see the future, no-one knew that betrayal was coming and she'd do a bunk.

[helpthisguyplease]

Was it ever explained how those templars lost power after they got corrupted by red lyrium?

[KaiserShep]

The warden is basically a god slayer.
The inquisitor has a glowing hand.

Hawke just through jokes here and there.

 

But that's sort of what I love about Hawke. Hawke jokes while ​leaving hundreds of baddies' corpses in her wake. The character is, like pretty much all Bio protagonists, a total killing machine, only this one was able to at least do so with a particular glee, which is always a plus. The Warden isn't so much a god slayer as a Blight magnet, since you could probably just toss the Warden at the archdemon while s/he's wearing a pointy helmet and still kill it, thanks to the Joining powers. 

[Sifr]

But that's sort of what I love about Hawke. Hawke jokes while ​leaving hundreds of baddies' corpses in her wake. The character is, like pretty much all Bio protagonists, a total killing machine, only this one was able to at least do so with a particular glee, which is always a plus. The Warden isn't so much a god slayer as a Blight magnet, since you could probably just toss the Warden at the archdemon while s/he's wearing a pointy helmet and still kill it, thanks to the Joining powers. 

 

When you look at it that way, Hawke is a Badass Normal at the very least (compared to a Badass Abnormal like the Warden and Inquisitor) since Hawke is able to successfully take down darkspawn and demons without any cool Warden-powers or magical glowing hand to give them an edge?

 

Plus, Hawke can do it all with a joke and a smile.

[Umaya]

https://40.media.tum...ykpjyo1_500.jpg

God slayer

http://imageslgmr.la...1/DAI-green.jpg

Glowing hand

https://encrypted-tb...8WDQsypxQ_P3j6A

Big joke

 

But that's sort of what I love about Hawke. Hawke jokes while ​leaving hundreds of baddies' corpses in her wake. The character is, like pretty much all Bio protagonists, a total killing machine, only this one was able to at least do so with a particular glee, which is always a plus. The Warden isn't so much a god slayer as a Blight magnet, since you could probably just toss the Warden at the archdemon while s/he's wearing a pointy helmet and still kill it, thanks to the Joining powers. 

[ThePhoenixKing]

When you look at it that way, Hawke is a Badass Normal at the very least (compared to a Badass Abnormal like the Warden and Inquisitor) since Hawke is able to successfully take down darkspawn and demons without any cool Warden-powers or magical glowing hand to give them an edge?

 

Plus, Hawke can do it all with a joke and a smile.

 

First off, bonus points for quoting TVTropes. But yeah, as much as I like the Warden, and indeed the very concept of the Order (you can't really go wrong with Night's Watch meets Avengers meets Blood Angels), the fact that Hawke is pretty much just a normal person undertaking all these great deeds adds a certain something to the character.

 

Not to mention, better than the ignoble death in Inquisition they can suffer... really, if they were going to have the option for Hawke to die in Inquisition, it should have been in some kind of ill-fated attempt by the Inquisition to take down Corypheus, rather than against a demon that only appeared half an hour ago and unlike Corypheus, will be irrelevant after this quest is done.

 

I think all of them are badass in their own ways, but you can't really compare them in terms of badassery since they do vastly different jobs and have their own particular niche that they are best suited for?

 

I think the best comparison we can hope for is to imagine if they were in the place of the Inquisition advisors. The Inquisitor seems like they'd take the Josephine role, since we're the face of the group and often called upon to play diplomat, the Warden would take Cullen's role as the general building up an army (which was Origins in a nutshell), while Hawke would take the Leliana role, the one who takes care of the difficult jobs that cannot be "officially" sanctioned (which was often Hawke's job in DA2).

 

Definitely agree with you about the Nightmare decision. The whole Adamant arc was just a mean-spirited slog from beginning to end, and having to make that arbitrary, cheap Virmire knockoff decision at the end was the last straw. Hawke, indeed all of the potential victims, deserved better than such an ignominous end, and I'd love to see a "Liberation" DLC or something to that effect where they can be rescued and Nightmare put down for good.

 

And that's a really neat way of looking at the main characters, well done. I'd argue that the Warden can also fit the Josephine role as well, given that they solve succession crises and bloodfeuds and all manner of political issues, as well as administrating Amaranthine.

[Cobra's_back]

I personally find Hawke to be the least bad ass of all the protagonists. S/He was just there.

 

 

Same here. Personally felt sorry for him/her because they had no control. Everything fell apart around them. It was painful being Hawk.

[Cobra's_back]

I find Hawke to be the least badass of the 3 protags because Hawke was just there compared to the Warden-Commander and the Inquisitor. 

 

And life kept kicking him/her in the teeth. Hawk didn't kill Cory. Hawk technically let Cory go free. Cory needed Hawk's blood. Unfortunately Hawk was played often even by friends. 

[Murdan]

I agree with that.

Inquisitor seems more like a hoarding tramp always searching for some treasure - it keeps him busy outside his duties while his advisors do all the work for him.

I think it was quite too much of accidents or "a guy who isn't special" so the game isn't about the main character, more about the Inquisition. It is still OK, but I prefer more personal story in previous DA. 

 

So I wish there would be 3rd chapter (1st Haven, 2nd Skyhold) where the main character would learn how to be more "professional" - that Cassandra would teach him how to seek the truth, or Solas would teach him how to sense thin veil, or someone else how to discover more (that there would be something more) in him/her, that there would be some progress. So he would be prepared for Corypheus. Or atleast those specialisations would be more story based. 

 

Then he/she would be really badass. 

 

[helpthisguyplease]

At least other people do something in Inquisition in other games you have to do everything for them here they actually do things the could do. You need to dabble in politics you send Leliana, you need a army to kill a army of darkspawn you send a army of grey wardens. People do things they do not expect you to do everything.

The Inquisitor is the leader of the strongest organization on Thedas he will delegate.

[Karlone123]

Its funny how people feel like Hawke, a normal guy just trying to look out for his family, should be averting wars and stopping assassinations. Only once he is Champion does he hold some accountability but never before. I'd like to see you guys get out there and end some wars before they happen. Hawke's charm is that he is a normal citizen like everyone else, yet when something happens in Kirkwall (like the qunari invading) he deals with overwhelming circumstances and is still standing.

 

That is why I love the man/woman.

[Cobra's_back]

By not taking the list Hawke is guilty of a greater sin then a paltry few thousands of deaths.

He signed the death warrants of all the tens of thousands that will die the next time the Qunari invade, The Qunari wars were the bloodiest series of conflicts since the blights.

How many hundreds of thousands are you condemning to death because you have some petty delusion of coexistence?

Honesty the only reason I can even stomach that decision is because Bioware railroaded me.

 

I have to agree why would Hawk help a Qunari Spy didn't make any sense. I also felt really bad as Hawk knowing something was wrong with giving my blood to free Cory boy. In the end, the old guy wasn't walking funny and had a different voice. I knew then, I had been played again.

 

How many people pull a fast one on Hawk?

 

Cory

Anders

Tallis??

[Cobra's_back]

Its funny how people feel like Hawke, a normal guy just trying to look out for his family, should be averting wars and stopping assassinations. Only once he is Champion does he hold some accountability but never before. I'd like to see you guys get out there and end some wars before they happen. Hawke's charm is that he is a normal citizen like everyone else, yet when something happens in Kirkwall (like the qunari invading) he deals with overwhelming circumstances and is still standing.

 

Act two was just fine. Now enters Act 3, where Hawk is totally played several times. Sure, great with weapons but has no idea when he is being played even when the player is scream WT?. 

 

Tell me you wanted to help Tallis?

Tell me you wanted to blow up the old lady?

Tell me you didn't know something was wrong at the end of killing Cory?

 

Poor Hawk had no control or clue.

[animedreamer]

I think Hawke is the biggest Mary Sue of all the protagonist, but not necessarily in a negative way, or that i even dislike them. Its just that their story like Cassandra herself seemed to think is hard to believe.

 

If you actually go through all the things Hawke does and all the rewards they accumulate it really does read like some unbelievable BS. Compared to the other DA protagonist Hawke sits pretty for a good deal of their story and some of their ending depending on the ending you chose.

[ThePhoenixKing]

All of Bioware's characters are ridiculous if you think about it too much, but at least Hawke's story takes place over years (7 I think). Not the instant-elite status of the Inquisitor.

 

Not sure about the rewards you're talking about though. Loot was pretty sparse in DA2.. and the whole first act you're just some immigrant scrounging for cash.

 

Yeah, with Hawke, there was the visible passage of time, while the Warden had sheer effort to justify his gains (seriously, major quest lines in Origins were pretty big compared to Inquisition). The Inquisitor basically gets an unrealistically powerful army handed to them on a plate.

 

Act two was just fine. Now enters Act 3, where Hawk is totally played several times. Sure, great with weapons but has no idea when he is being played even when the player is scream WT?. 

 

Tell me you wanted to help Tallis?

Tell me you wanted to blow up the old lady?

Tell me you didn't know something was wrong at the end of killing Cory?

 

Poor Hawk had no control or clue.

 

That's not really an issue with Hawke so much as it is the writing in DAII. I don't blame Hawke for getting screwed over by Anders any more than I do Shepard losing to Kei Leng on Thessia, or the Grey Wardens being deceived by Erimond. If the writers need to make the characters become stupid/weak/evil/corrupt in order to justify the plot or move the story forward, then that's just bad writing, and it's on them.

[zombitologist]

Hawke is my favorite, partially because the story was so much more personal. Between the personality of the character and their relationships with the world around them, they interacted with it in a much more realistic way than the Inquisitor or Warden that were blank slates for the player to interact with the world. As for whether or not Hawke is that most badass entirely depends on how he/she is viewed by the player. For me? Yes, he's a crafty rogue that protects his family at all costs. Though I feel The Inquisitor has room to grow still, and The Warden is more legendary and mythological.

[stop_him]

Hawke sucks. 

 

Spoiler

I murder him/her whenever I get the chance in the Fade

[Mistic]

First off, bonus points for quoting TVTropes. But yeah, as much as I like the Warden, and indeed the very concept of the Order (you can't really go wrong with Night's Watch meets Avengers meets Blood Angels), the fact that Hawke is pretty much just a normal person undertaking all these great deeds adds a certain something to the character.

 

But can't the same be said about several Wardens? The casteless Dwarf and the two elves were pretty much normal people in their societies, and even the mage is just another mage in the Circle. The Warden's darkspawn sense was, as explained by Alistair, not developed during the game yet, so their only superpower is the "awesome" ability of being able to kill the Archdemon at the cost of their own lives. That sucks. Add the part about being one of the only two survivors of the order in Ferelden, being labeled as criminals by the national powers and having to stop the end of the world in one year while everyone that can help is too obsessed with their civil wars or magical fallouts to be of any use, and anything that Hawke did pales in comparison, including the "rags to riches" part that is so endearing about them.

 

The Warden is the most badass, without a doubt. The difference between their initial situation and the end is incredible, and they had to work every advantage they got by themselves. Hawke did too, but they got much less. As for the Inquisitor, they felt more epic when they were a glorified PR mascot nobody trusted much (obstacles!), before they became the boss.

[Uccio]

But now that Bethany has been outed as a Mage, the genie is already out of the bottle. Even if Hawke had stopped Cullen from taking her (and assuming there aren't a number of Templars outside just in case), this would require the family fleeing from Kirkwall to escape, something none of them want to do. As I said before, this also requires Hawke ignoring the wishes of Bethany who herself wanted to go into the Circle. Numerous times in Act 1 we hear her curious about the Circle and wondering if it'd be so bad, so that heavily hints that she might have contacted them herself.

 

I think that was the most stupid moment of the game. A Hawke who has spent his whole life protecting his little sister from the Circle and templars would just wimp out like that?

They would have been training for their whole life for this moment, how to fight their way out of it as a team. He would have escape route ready and possible safe houses ready. Hawke was already a seasoned mercenary/smuggler who most likely knew how to fight dirty and especially against templars because of her. Assisted by his sister´s magic and a mabari, where as Cullen had only one templar in the house with him. I don´t think Cullen would be getting out of that room alive.

As for Bethany wanting to go to Circle, she says later that she didn´t know horrible the place was until she was locked up. So her comment has to be seen in the context, being concerned of her family members. Not as a real wish.

[Sah291]

I think that was the most stupid moment of the game. A Hawke who has spent his whole life protecting his little sister from the Circle and templars would just wimp out like that?
They would have been training for their whole life for this moment, how to fight their way out of it as a team. He would have escape route ready and possible safe houses ready. Hawke was already a seasoned mercenary/smuggler who most likely knew how to fight dirty and especially against templars because of her. Assisted by his sister´s magic and a mabari, where as Cullen had only one templar in the house with him. I don´t think Cullen would be getting out of that room alive.
As for Bethany wanting to go to Circle, she says later that she didn´t know horrible the place was until she was locked up. So her comment has to be seen in the context, being concerned of her family members. Not as a real wish.

What I get from the dialogue is a Hawke who chooses to leave the sibling behind is in effect saying that safety is more important, and that they don't want to risk it. Thus Carver is encouraged by that action to become a Templar and Bethany a Circle mage. A Hawke who takes them along is more of a risk taker and the sibling possibly dying or becoming a Warden reflects that choice. So my guess is, a Hawke who leaves Beth behind is maybe more ok with her choice to join the Circle (for safety or protection or whatever else she believes she's going to get out if it)? Remember Bethany is tired of being on the run.

[Sifr]

I think that was the most stupid moment of the game. A Hawke who has spent his whole life protecting his little sister from the Circle and templars would just wimp out like that?

They would have been training for their whole life for this moment, how to fight their way out of it as a team. He would have escape route ready and possible safe houses ready. Hawke was already a seasoned mercenary/smuggler who most likely knew how to fight dirty and especially against templars because of her. Assisted by his sister´s magic and a mabari, where as Cullen had only one templar in the house with him. I don´t think Cullen would be getting out of that room alive.

As for Bethany wanting to go to Circle, she says later that she didn´t know horrible the place was until she was locked up. So her comment has to be seen in the context, being concerned of her family members. Not as a real wish.

 

C'mon, is it really wimping out to see that you have absolutely no way out of the situation... at least one that won't end with your possible death or the death of everyone around you that you care about?

 

Hawke has spent the last 25 years moving from one place to another to try and stay one step of the Templars, lest they find their father or Bethany, you are right in that it's something they have become used to. But they've always been in small villages where they know who the local Templars are and when and if they were coming for them, whereas Kirkwall is a totally different beast. Kirkwall is a massive city and has far more Templars than a local chantry might have stationed there, who likely don't watch for apostates nearly as closely as a Templar garrison does.

 

This time, they simply had to hope for the best and that their luck would hold out and they'd be not noticed. And unfortunately for Bethany, it didn't and now the Templars aren't just knocking at the door, they're in the living room.

 

As for safehouses, do you really think that a family that has spent the last year shacked up with Gamlen in a hovel that smells like old cabbage, really has enough cash to have mini-batcaves around Kirkwall and the surrounding countryside?

 

The problem with fighting their way out assumes that Cullen is the sort of person who didn't come into that room prepared for a possible fight with a mage and so isn't suppressing her ability to do magic, rendering her useless in a fight... the sort of preparation that is totally in-character for the man we've seen over the last three games. It also assumes that there's no backup outside that they'd have to fight through either.

 

Bethany asks several times about the Circle in Act 1 and implies she'd think it'd be easier for the people around her if she didn't have to constantly worry about forcing them to protect her. It might be guilt, but it's something that's been running through her mind for over 18 years.

 

How is Hawke a wimp for begrudingly accepting that they've got no choice but to let her go. If you take the aggressive dialogue option, Hawke even says that Cullen will have to go through them first, but Bethany tells them to stop as it'll only make the situation worse and put her in more danger.

 

Bethany wanted to stop running. After the Birthright quest she talks about the Circle and it's pros and cons, while if you import a save with an Amell Warden, she comments about what if she'd been taken as a child to the Ferelden one and whether she'd have become the HOF. Life in the Circle is something that she has been thinking about for a long time, she just had the misfortune to be taken to one of the worst in Thedas.

 

While Hawke might not like her choice (and neither do I), it was still her choice.