111 réponses à ce sujet

[Cz-99]

He's definitely the funniest and wittiest. The title for most badass, however, at least for me goes to The Warden. That being said, both are way more badass than that cardboard box leading the inquisition.

[Uccio]

C'mon, is it really wimping out to see that you have absolutely no way out of the situation... at least one that won't end with your possible death or the death of everyone around you that you care about?

 

Hawke has spent the last 25 years moving from one place to another to try and stay one step of the Templars, lest they find their father or Bethany, you are right in that it's something they have become used to. But they've always been in small villages where they know who the local Templars are and when and if they were coming for them, whereas Kirkwall is a totally different beast. Kirkwall is a massive city and has far more Templars than a local chantry might have stationed there, who likely don't watch for apostates nearly as closely as a Templar garrison does.

 

This time, they simply had to hope for the best and that their luck would hold out and they'd be not noticed. And unfortunately for Bethany, it didn't and now the Templars aren't just knocking at the door, they're in the living room.

 

As for safehouses, do you really think that a family that has spent the last year shacked up with Gamlen in a hovel that smells like old cabbage, really has enough cash to have mini-batcaves around Kirkwall and the surrounding countryside?

 

The problem with fighting their way out assumes that Cullen is the sort of person who didn't come into that room prepared for a possible fight with a mage and so isn't suppressing her ability to do magic, rendering her useless in a fight... the sort of preparation that is totally in-character for the man we've seen over the last three games. It also assumes that there's no backup outside that they'd have to fight through either.

 

Bethany asks several times about the Circle in Act 1 and implies she'd think it'd be easier for the people around her if she didn't have to constantly worry about forcing them to protect her. It might be guilt, but it's something that's been running through her mind for over 18 years.

 

How is Hawke a wimp for begrudingly accepting that they've got no choice but to let her go. If you take the aggressive dialogue option, Hawke even says that Cullen will have to go through them first, but Bethany tells them to stop as it'll only make the situation worse and put her in more danger.

 

Bethany wanted to stop running. After the Birthright quest she talks about the Circle and it's pros and cons, while if you import a save with an Amell Warden, she comments about what if she'd been taken as a child to the Ferelden one and whether she'd have become the HOF. Life in the Circle is something that she has been thinking about for a long time, she just had the misfortune to be taken to one of the worst in Thedas.

 

While Hawke might not like her choice (and neither do I), it was still her choice.

 

So you think  .

 

A mercenary/smuggler Hawke is a seasoned warrior at that point. He has already killed a large number of men with much more less reason. You really think two templars are a challenge to him? He has killed several templars during his first year in Kirkwall already.

 

Like I said the only thing he and Bethany, and the mabari, would have been preparing for is to come face to face with the templars at some point. It is not like Hawke did not think this through before. Hawke has already a lot of contacts in the city and his/hers former employee keeps asking him/her back for more jobs. That qualifies for a escape route on it´s own. Not to mention a Hawke who has been protecting Bethany his whole life would have suffered of some kind of amnesia if he would not have thought of such possibility before and preparing for it. You don´t need a batcave for safehouse, just a small shack or even a piece of dry sewer outside prying eyes here and there in the city. Until you get out of the city, and Kirkwall is full of underground holes.

 

I would call it wimping out if there is only one thing, just one thing in your whole life for which you have been getting ready to, and when the push comes to show you just wimp out like a whipped dog. None of my Hawke would have backed down at that situation. And as for Cullen, he has no idea who he is facing, Hawke is the better warrior of them two.

 

Bethany just keeps toying with the idea, in the end she says Circle is a horrible place. She did not wish to join it out of her own will but her toying with the idea originates of her good will not being a burden to her family, or how she think she is. Not out of wanting to go to the Circle. Her opinion is not born out of real wish, so it has to be seen in context.

[Sifr]

So you think  .

 

A mercenary/smuggler Hawke is a seasoned warrior at that point. He has already killed a large number of men with much more less reason. You really think two templars are a challenge to him? He has killed several templars during his first year in Kirkwall already.

 

Like I said the only thing he and Bethany, and the mabari, would have been preparing for is to come face to face with the templars at some point. It is not like Hawke did not think this through before. Hawke has already a lot of contacts in the city and his/hers former employee keeps asking him/her back for more jobs. That qualifies for a escape route on it´s own. Not to mention a Hawke who has been protecting Bethany his whole life would have suffered of some kind of amnesia if he would not have thought of such possibility before and preparing for it. You don´t need a batcave for it, just a small shack or even a piece of dry sewer outside prying eyes here and there in the city. Until you get out of the city, and Kirkwall is full of underground holes.

 

I would call it wimping out if there is only one thing, just one thing in your whole life for which you have been getting ready to, and when the push comes to show you just wimp out like a whipped dog. None of my Hawke would have backed down at that situation. And as for Cullen, he has no idea who he is facing, Hawke is the better warrior of them two.

 

Bethany just keeps toying with the idea, in the end she says Circle is a horrible place. She did not wish to join it out of her own will but her toying with the idea originates of her good will not being a burden to her family, or how she think she is. Not out of wanting to go to the Circle. Her opinion is not born out of real wish, so it has to be seen in context.

 

True, but Hawke often has an entire party at their back when they're taking on such enemies and likely a case of gameplay and story segregation, at work, the same reason why it's so easy to take on an Ogre in the game but lethal to Bethany/Carver in the prologue.

 

Throughout Act 1, we repeatedly hear Bethany/Carver state that Kirkwall is the end of the road as far as they are concerned that and that they'd really not want to run from yet another home, they want somewhere they can stay for good.

 

They don't have anywhere else to go, nor do they have the money to find somewhere else, while the contacts that Hawke has made in Kirkwall could sell them out if there was money in it for them, something Bethany alludes to early in Act 1 where she implies that it's nearly happened before.

 

The Deep Roads expedition was the means to acquire that, so that they could become wealthy enough that the order wouldn't be able to touch them and could be paid to look the other way if anyone ever found out Bethany (or Hawke) was a mage. That was the plan, it's just that before Hawke was able to return with the cash in hand, the Templars were already taking Bethany away.

 

Bethany asked Hawke to back down and they reluctantly did, since it was clear it was a no-win situation and that pressing the issue would put everyone in danger, since Templars can kill apostates and arrest their families if they resist (and sometimes even if they don't), so it's lucky that they were dealing with someone as sensible and rational as Cullen.

 

Rather than abandon her to her fate, Hawke's wealth and restored noble status is probably what ensured that Bethany was protected from the sort of abuses and mistreatment that befell a lot of the other mages in the Gallows, since mages from noble families do get a lot of privileges in the Circle. If Hawke couldn't stop her being taken to the Gallows, they'd make sure she'd be safe within it.

 

Even if it was down to guilt, believing that she was a burden on her family and partially done under duress, it doesn't override that she made a clear choice by refusing to fight back and even begging Hawke not to do so when they wanted to, when she could have chosen otherwise?

 

Even if you (or Hawke) think another person's choices are stupid, it's not upto Hawke whether or not they choose to make them. Like in Merrill's Rival Path, part of the conflict isn't about her being upset with Hawke for not wanting to her fix the Eluvian, but that Hawke repeatedly shows they do not respect her and her decisions, even if she herself knows that she might be making a mistake.

[Mistic]

True, but Hawke often has an entire party at their back when they're taking on such enemies and likely a case of gameplay and story segregation, at work, the same reason why it's so easy to take on an Ogre in the game but lethal to Bethany/Carver in the prologue.

 

I think it's also a matter of unfair comparisons.

 

In DA:O, a Warden with much less experience than Hawke and with an equally small party could clear the whole Circle tower of demons, blood mages and possessed Templars (it's not a case of gameplay and story segregation, because both in that game and in later games it's treated as one of those feats that granted the Warden a legendary status in Ferelden, like a Calenhad 2.0). When the player comes to DAII and watches Hawke being unable to go against just a bunch of Templars, some feel disappointed at their lack of agency.

 

But Hawke is not the Warden. The Warden had some legal rights behind them (the treaties), was in a very desperate situation (it's either solve the demon crisis or die by darkspawn), and didn't have to look after their family.

 

Also, depending on the background, there's society pressure too. Hawke is a commoner brought up in an Andrastian Fereldan setting. There are some cultural limits they know not to cross. A Dwarf or a Dalish Warden, on the other hand, may not have any reason to care, and a Mage might have been opposing that from the very beginning depending on choices.

 

Add Bethany's situation, as you explained, and the end is logical. It makes much less sense that the Templars didn't go after a Mage Hawke before they became rich, but that's another matter.

[TobiTobsen]

Cultural limits? As in "don't touch/disrespect Templars"?

 

Hawke has, a few weeks/months before the Bethany incident, the option to murder an entire squad of Templars for some random mages he met five minutes ago.

 

At that time I could not and still cannot comprehend how a Hawke that took that route with Karras simply backs down from Cullen and his one henchman. Because Bethany said so? C'mon. There are limits for "I accept your decision, because I love you" and your sister walking into the worst meat grinder of a circle in all of Thedas is probably one of those. Especially when your whole family did everything and sacrificed everything in the last 20 years or so to prevent just that.

[Mistic]

Cultural limits? As in "don't touch/disrespect Templars"?

 

Hawke has, a few weeks/months before the Bethany incident, the option to murder an entire squad of Templars for some random mages he met five minutes ago.

 

At that time I could not and still cannot comprehend how a Hawke that took that route with Karras simply backs down from Cullen and his one henchman. Because Bethany said so? C'mon. There are limits for "I accept your decision, because I love you" and your sister walking into the worst meat grinder of a circle in all of Thedas is probably one of those. Especially when your whole family did everything and sacrificed everything in the last 20 years or so to prevent just that.

 

Yes, Hawke has the option to kill Templars. In the Wounded Coast, far from the city, against a a group of zealots that are eager for an excuse to kill mages and with the support of another Templar. And even that's optional.

 

At the end of Act 1 Hawke's inside the city, the seat of power of the Templars, with witnesses everywhere, no money and no influence yet, and against a group of Templars who aren't trying to kill anyone but just doing their supposed jobs (Templars do have to look for apostates and bring them to the Circles in every Andrastian nation, it wasn't Kirkwall abuse). It would be like a smuggler fighting the whole police force to the death just because the police has caught their sibling red-handed and are bringing them to prison.

 

The limits assumed by the Hawkes are canonized in the very background codex entries on the characters. Hawke's family didn't lead a revolution or fight against Templar oppression, they just tried to live a normal life (they weren't hiding in a swamp like Morrigan and Flemeth) and not get into trouble. DAII can be about a change in that stance... or not.

[Sah291]

Yes, Hawke has the option to kill Templars. In the Wounded Coast, far from the city, against a a group of zealots that are eager for an excuse to kill mages and with the support of another Templar. And even that's optional.

At the end of Act 1 Hawke's inside the city, the seat of power of the Templars, with witnesses everywhere, no money and no influence yet, and against a group of Templars who aren't trying to kill anyone but just doing their supposed jobs (Templars do have to look for apostates and bring them to the Circles in every Andrastian nation, it wasn't Kirkwall abuse). It would be like a smuggler fighting the whole police force to the death just because the police has caught their sibling red-handed and are bringing them to prison.

The limits assumed by the Hawkes are canonized in the very background codex entries on the characters. Hawke's family didn't lead a revolution or fight against Templar oppression, they just tried to live a normal life (they weren't hiding in a swamp like Morrigan and Flemeth) and not get into trouble. DAII can be about a change in that stance... or not.

Right, Hawke, even mage Hawke, has never experienced the Circle. For all he and Bethany know, maybe the grass really is greener on the other side, given how much being on the run has cost them. Hawke may be ready to fight a war to abolish the circle system by the end of the game, but I don't see that yet by act 1.

The seeds being set maybe, but that's why I find the story a bit more interesting to play non mage Hawke as being a bit more cautious with Templars like Carver, and starting to question the other side. Maybe even siding with Meredith in the beginning of act 3. The story about her sister is much more dramatic if you have Bethany or if you are a mage Hawke with Templar Carver, IMO.

The subplot with the sibling is all about family and testing loyalties, etc. Act 2 introduces several reasons for Hawke to either turn on Beth completely, or feel guilty and decide it was a mistake to let her go to the circle.

[TobiTobsen]

Yes, Hawke has the option to kill Templars. In the Wounded Coast, far from the city, against a a group of zealots that are eager for an excuse to kill mages and with the support of another Templar. And even that's optional.

 

At the end of Act 1 Hawke's inside the city, the seat of power of the Templars, with witnesses everywhere, no money and no influence yet, and against a group of Templars who aren't trying to kill anyone but just doing their supposed jobs (Templars do have to look for apostates and bring them to the Circles in every Andrastian nation, it wasn't Kirkwall abuse). It would be like a smuggler fighting the whole police force to the death just because the police has caught their sibling red-handed and are bringing them to prison.

 

The limits assumed by the Hawkes are canonized in the very background codex entries on the characters. Hawke's family didn't lead a revolution or fight against Templar oppression, they just tried to live a normal life (they weren't hiding in a swamp like Morrigan and Flemeth) and not get into trouble. DAII can be about a change in that stance... or not.

 

Sure, it's optional. Bethany becoming a circle mage is also optional. I'm not sure I see the point you're trying to make.

 

The same city that sees Hawke murder another bunch of Templars when they question him/her about the other dead bunch. The second fight even happening in Hightown without anybody giving a crap.

Cullen is coming to pick up Bethany in Lowtown. Not a place as bad as Darktown but it still has the City Watch and the Templars go "Meh... probably nothing." when a serial killer is murdering people left, right and center. Kill the Templars, hide the bodies and get out of town before somebody asks questions.

 

And at that specific pick up it's not even a full squad of Templars. It's Cullen and about 3-4 guys. If the game would show me that it's hopeless to resist because of their manpower, ok. If the game would give me the option to attack and fail, ok. But showing me a situation that the PC could, and usually would, solve with violence (without a problem) and then force me to stand by and twiddle my thumbs? That's like the final confrontation with Tallis all over again.

 

PC: "Time to die!"

NPC: "Naaa..."

PC: "Ok." *sad face*

 

Right, Hawke, even mage Hawke, has never experienced the Circle. For all he and Bethany know, maybe the grass really is greener on the other side, given how much being on the run has cost them. Hawke may be ready to fight a war to abolish the circle system by the end of the game, but I don't see that yet by act 1.

The seeds being set maybe, but that's why I find the story a bit more interesting to play non mage Hawke as being a bit more cautious with Templars like Carver, and starting to question the other side. Maybe even siding with Meredith in the beginning of act 3. The story about her sister is much more dramatic if you have Bethany or if you are a mage Hawke with Templar Carver, IMO.

The subplot with the sibling is all about family and testing loyalties, etc. Act 2 introduces several reasons for Hawke to either turn on Beth completely, or feel guilty and decide it was a mistake to let her go to the circle.

 

Every single piece of information you get in Act 1 is basically screaming at you to get the **** out of town if you're a mage and Maker forbid don't get yourself thrown into the gallows.

[Nerevar-as]

He's definitely the funniest and wittiest. The title for most badass, however, at least for me goes to The Warden. That being said, both are way more badass than that cardboard box leading the inquisition.

Are you playing human warrior? 

[Mistic]

Sure, it's optional. Bethany becoming a circle mage is also optional. I'm not sure I see the point you're trying to make.

 

The point is that the climax of Act 1 always has the remaining sibling leaving Hawke (Templars, Circle, Wardens or death), while solving every situation with violence is optional for the player. It's easier for the developers to read the protagonist in a certain way ("no, they aren't prepared physically and/or mentally to do that in that situation") than branching the plot.

 

Let's be honest, I'd have preferred branching in that situation too, but I can't say that Hawke's actions were against character. That it doesn't match the player's reading or that it's disappointing is another matter.

 

The same city that sees Hawke murder another bunch of Templars when they question him/her about the other dead bunch. The second fight even happening in Hightown without anybody giving a crap.

 

In Act 2. By that time, Hawke is one of the wealthiest and most influential people in a corrupt city. They can be a mage or live together with an abomination or a Dalish blood mage, and the Templars can't touch them.

[Uccio]

True, but Hawke often has an entire party at their back when they're taking on such enemies and likely a case of gameplay and story segregation, at work, the same reason why it's so easy to take on an Ogre in the game but lethal to Bethany/Carver in the prologue.

 

Throughout Act 1, we repeatedly hear Bethany/Carver state that Kirkwall is the end of the road as far as they are concerned that and that they'd really not want to run from yet another home, they want somewhere they can stay for good.

 

They don't have anywhere else to go, nor do they have the money to find somewhere else, while the contacts that Hawke has made in Kirkwall could sell them out if there was money in it for them, something Bethany alludes to early in Act 1 where she implies that it's nearly happened before.

 

The Deep Roads expedition was the means to acquire that, so that they could become wealthy enough that the order wouldn't be able to touch them and could be paid to look the other way if anyone ever found out Bethany (or Hawke) was a mage. That was the plan, it's just that before Hawke was able to return with the cash in hand, the Templars were already taking Bethany away.

 

Bethany asked Hawke to back down and they reluctantly did, since it was clear it was a no-win situation and that pressing the issue would put everyone in danger, since Templars can kill apostates and arrest their families if they resist (and sometimes even if they don't), so it's lucky that they were dealing with someone as sensible and rational as Cullen.

 

Rather than abandon her to her fate, Hawke's wealth and restored noble status is probably what ensured that Bethany was protected from the sort of abuses and mistreatment that befell a lot of the other mages in the Gallows, since mages from noble families do get a lot of privileges in the Circle. If Hawke couldn't stop her being taken to the Gallows, they'd make sure she'd be safe within it.

 

Even if it was down to guilt, believing that she was a burden on her family and partially done under duress, it doesn't override that she made a clear choice by refusing to fight back and even begging Hawke not to do so when they wanted to, when she could have chosen otherwise?

 

Even if you (or Hawke) think another person's choices are stupid, it's not upto Hawke whether or not they choose to make them. Like in Merrill's Rival Path, part of the conflict isn't about her being upset with Hawke for not wanting to her fix the Eluvian, but that Hawke repeatedly shows they do not respect her and her decisions, even if she herself knows that she might be making a mistake.

 

But you are now using a lot of hindsight as the player. Hawke, a refugee who has been spending his whole life protecting Bethany from templars spends a year in Kirkwall hearing first hand stories from Anders and other people about the horrible abuse of the Templars over and over again. Then in comes Cullen with his buddy to claim Hawke´s sister to join to a carousel of forced love.

 

Do you really think Hawke would just hand his sister to Ser Rape and his band of merry abuse men after what he has heard and witnessed going on in Kirkwall? 

 

What Bethany thinks is the only option is completely irrelevant at that point. I for certain would not give my little sister for such system to be abused. Hawke as a noble had as much leverage over the Circle affairs as had that drunken fellow at the Hanged Man. Zero. He could not have protected Bethany at all.

 

The only plausible way to Bethany ending up to the Circle would be if they hauled her off while Hawke was in the Deep Roads. That is, if Bethany had a brother who cared about her.

[themikefest]

I would say Hawke is the most sarcastic

[Master Warder Z_]

You could just play it as a moment of weakness... which I guess I do. Afterwards, Hawke could kick himself and regret. This way he takes out his anger on everyone... Act 2 is good for that. Eventually leading up to him killing the Qunari.

Plus...killing a Knight Captain is a good way to find yourself hunted across all lands under the Divine.

[Master Warder Z_]

Pretty much. And I think with all the running his family has done from Templars so far, Hawke may not quite be that bold...yet. He has to go through a particular crucible to get to the point.

That's one rationalization at least.

Certainly.

To further add to that point?

Kirkwall is the second largest garrison in the world at this point boasting literally thousands of Templars...so...

I doubt Hawke would even make it out of the city alive. Its different when your facing a single opponent or a group or even a squad but...a army?

[TobiTobsen]

The point is that the climax of Act 1 always has the remaining sibling leaving Hawke (Templars, Circle, Wardens or death), while solving every situation with violence is optional for the player. It's easier for the developers to read the protagonist in a certain way ("no, they aren't prepared physically and/or mentally to do that in that situation") than branching the plot.

 

Let's be honest, I'd have preferred branching in that situation too, but I can't say that Hawke's actions were against character. That it doesn't match the player's reading or that it's disappointing is another matter.

 

Sure, sure. I have to admit that my opinion about that scene and quite a few others are heavily influenced by my dislike of Hawke.

In my opinion the lives of many people in Kirkwall would have been way better without the failure Hawke and his/her merry band of misfits murdering & plundering their way through the town for 7-10 years.

[Sifr]

But you are now using a lot of hindsight as the player. Hawke, a refugee who has been spending his whole life protecting Bethany from templars spends a year in Kirkwall hearing first hand stories from Anders and other people about the horrible abuse of the Templars over and over again. Then in comes Cullen with his buddy to claim Hawke´s sister to join to a carousel of forced love.

 

Do really you think Hawke would just hand his sister to Ser Rape and his band of merry abuse men after what he has heard and witnessed going on in Kirkwall? 

 

What Bethany thinks is the only option is completely irrelevant at that point. I for certain would not give my little sister for such system to be abused. Hawke as a noble had as much leverage over the Circle affairs as had that drunken fellow at the Hanged Man. Zero. He could not have protected Bethany at all.

 

The only plausible way to Bethany ending up to the Circle would be if they hauled her off while Hawke was in the Deep Roads. That is, if Bethany had a brother who cared about her.

 

While I have no love for the Templar order, even I don't believe that every single Templar happens to be a mage-hating bunch of rapists. Hawke has no reason to believe that they are all bad based solely on the word of Anders (a multiple Circle escapeee who's deeply bitter) and others, when we encounter just as many decent Templars during the Prologue and Act One as we do bad.

 

Just because the Gallows has Meredith, Karras and Alrik in it, doesn't mean that it doesn't also have people like Cullen, Thrask and Keran, who are decent and reasonable people, who show kindness and sympathy to the mages.

 

Hawke becoming a noble meant they were in a position to protect Bethany in the Circle with their vast wealth, since even if nobles aren't supposed to interfere with Circle business, they often can use their influence or wealth to make sure their family are treated well. Kirkwall is the Gotham city of corruption when it comes to corrupt cities in Thedas, it's not like bribing Templars would be out of the ordinary there.

 

Remember, bribing the City Guard and Templars was how we got into Kirkwall in the first place.

 

If Hawke had made any attempt to free her, it's likely they'd have ended up dead or imprisoned, while Bethany would have been labelled a danger and gotten made Tranquil. Not wanting your sister to become Tranquil because you were too proud and headstrong to let her go even when she asked you to, is honestly the kind of dumb move I'd have expected Carver to make, not Hawke.

 

Spoiler

 

Watch that scene again, the first thing Bethany says to us is "Don't do anything" and Cullen makes it clear what would happen to the family if they did something to try to prevent her being taken by the Templars. Hawke is clearly not happy and doesn't want her to go, but they've been caught over a barrel here and have no way out of the situation that isn't a bad one.

[SgtSteel91]

Just because the Gallows has Meredith, Karras and Alrik in it, doesn't mean that it doesn't also have people like Cullen, Thrask and Keran, who are decent and reasonable people, who show kindness and sympathy to the mages.

 

DA2 Cullen? The one who said Mages aren't people, who was Second in Command but didn't do anything about Alrik's illegal use of the Rite of Tranquility and even supported his Tranquil Solution?

[Master Warder Z_]

*snorts*

[Sifr]

DA2 Cullen? The one who said Mages aren't people, who was Second in Command but didn't do anything about Alrik's illegal use of the Rite of Tranquility and even supported his Tranquil Solution?

 

DA2 Cullen does however make it clear that he thinks that the order is meant to protect mages, regardless of his complicated and often inconsistant feelings about them. As for being in Meredith's second in command, what does that prove that he knew anything about the illegal tranquility that was being performed to create concubines for certain Templars or supported Ser Alrik's plans?

 

When you confront him on the papers, this is the discussion that follows;

 

Spoiler

Hawke: Your Ser Alrik was working on a plan to turn all mages tranquil.
Cullen: I will not ask how you came by the personal effects of a man recently murdered within our own walls. It's true there has been some discussion of the idea. But as you can see, it has gone no further than that.
Anders: You expect us to believe that?
Cullen: Believe what you like, mage. The Harrowing has served us well enough for centuries. It will be up to mages themselves whether they push us to more stringent measures.
Hawke: It sounds like you support this.
Cullen: The Tranquil ritual was created as a mercy so that mages need not be killed out of hand for a threat they might pose. There is an argument to be made for applying it more widely.
Anders: Are you going to listen to this? He's no better than Ser Alrik.
Cullen: Do you think it's easy to contain a mage who truly wants to deal with demons? We have done our best. But many mages have made it clear they view the ritual as no better than death. They want no controls on them at all.

 

Cullen does not make it clear whether he supports the idea or doesn't.

 

He is aware that there has been a discussion about applying it more widely and that argument does have some validity to it, but how is that any different than someone playing devil's advocate and acknowledging the valid points in a position they don't support?

 

Cullen knew about the plan and that it was ultimately rejected, but from the evidence in the game, as far as he was concerned, it went no further than simple talk and he knew nothing of the Templars who were trying to enact it in secret.

[Hellion Rex]

 He is not the strongest, that honor comes to the Inquisitor he not even the second strongest but unlike the other protagonists he is the most badass because he was not blessed with a godlike power like the Inquisitor or had personal trainers like the inquisitor or the warden. He is a normal human that learns from experience and yet he can kill a dragon or a ancient darkspawn magister, who with litle with no resources became a noble and a rich person then became a champion of a whole city by killing the strongest qunary warrior, all of that without incredible godlike power or training from experience warrior, rogues and mages.

  What do you all think?

Nope. Inquisitor was by far the strongest and most badass.

[Mistic]

When you confront him on the papers, this is the discussion that follows;

 

Spoiler

Hawke: Your Ser Alrik was working on a plan to turn all mages tranquil.
Cullen: I will not ask how you came by the personal effects of a man recently murdered within our own walls. It's true there has been some discussion of the idea. But as you can see, it has gone no further than that.
Anders: You expect us to believe that?
Cullen: Believe what you like, mage. The Harrowing has served us well enough for centuries. It will be up to mages themselves whether they push us to more stringent measures.
Hawke: It sounds like you support this.
Cullen: The Tranquil ritual was created as a mercy so that mages need not be killed out of hand for a threat they might pose. There is an argument to be made for applying it more widely.
Anders: Are you going to listen to this? He's no better than Ser Alrik.
Cullen: Do you think it's easy to contain a mage who truly wants to deal with demons? We have done our best. But many mages have made it clear they view the ritual as no better than death. They want no controls on them at all.

 

It's reading conversations like this what makes me realize how many things the Inquisitor can discover, change or influence. The truth of the Tranquil ritual (and its cure), the fate of the Templar order, the fate of the Circles... I'd love to have a time machine and tell DA2's Cullen about all that. Bonus points if he ends up romancing a pagan Dalish mage