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[Uccio]

While I have no love for the Templar order, even I don't believe that every single Templar happens to be a mage-hating bunch of rapists. Hawke has no reason to believe that they are all bad based solely on the word of Anders (a multiple Circle escapeee who's deeply bitter) and others, when we encounter just as many decent Templars during the Prologue and Act One as we do bad.

 

Just because the Gallows has Meredith, Karras and Alrik in it, doesn't mean that it doesn't also have people like Cullen, Thrask and Keran, who are decent and reasonable people, who show kindness and sympathy to the mages.

 

Hawke becoming a noble meant they were in a position to protect Bethany in the Circle with their vast wealth, since even if nobles aren't supposed to interfere with Circle business, they often can use their influence or wealth to make sure their family are treated well. Kirkwall is the Gotham city of corruption when it comes to corrupt cities in Thedas, it's not like bribing Templars would be out of the ordinary there.

 

Remember, bribing the City Guard and Templars was how we got into Kirkwall in the first place.

 

If Hawke had made any attempt to free her, it's likely they'd have ended up dead or imprisoned, while Bethany would have been labelled a danger and gotten made Tranquil. Not wanting your sister to become Tranquil because you were too proud and headstrong to let her go even when she asked you to, is honestly the kind of dumb move I'd have expected Carver to make, not Hawke.

 

Spoiler

 

Watch that scene again, the first thing Bethany says to us is "Don't do anything" and Cullen makes it clear what would happen to the family if they did something to try to prevent her being taken by the Templars. Hawke is clearly not happy and doesn't want her to go, but they've been caught over a barrel here and have no way out of the situation that isn't a bad one.

 

Like sgteel91 said, the so called "good" templars did jack **** to protect the mages from abuse. Thrask did not protect Alain from being raped despite being supposedly "a good guy". Now how long do you think Bethany would remain untouched? Ser Karras & Co were probably oiling their swords for some group activity the moment she stepped in. Cullen couldn´t care less about it. He didn´t even think Bethany is a human, so he is not the "good guy".

 

Hawke bribing templars is completely head canon, there is no evidence of such thing happening. Ergo, it didn´t happen.

 

The clip only shows a version of a Hawke who has no balls and tries to cover up his lost manhood with bad humor. And what Cullen says or threatens is irrelevant. The matter of the fact is that he came into Hawke´s hovel with just one templar. A piece of cake for Hawke, mabari and Bethany. A mercenary/smuggler Hawke could have taken care of him and ran with his family.

[Sifr]

Like sgteel91 said, the so called "good" templars did jack **** to protect the mages from abuse. Thrask did not protect Alain from being raped despite being supposedly "a good guy". Now how long do you think Bethany would remain untouched? Ser Karras & Co were probably oiling their swords for some group activity the moment she stepped in. Cullen couldn´t care less about it. He didn´t even think Bethany is a human, so he is not the "good guy".

 

I'm not a fan of the Templars by any degree, but even I don't think they're all a bunch of petty-minded sadists who run a mass-rape factory.

 

The good Templars who don't rape or abuse the mages can't watch their charges all the time, nor is it easy to prevent the jerkasses they work with who might be doing such things if they aren't around to stop them, catch them in the act, or prove they've done such things before in the past?

 

Without concrete proof, any claim against the Templars who do abuse their authority is unfortunately just hearsay at that point. Cullen and others can investigate the claims that are made, but if they cannot find anything to prove those claims, it's hard to build a solid case against them.

 

Hawke bribing templars is completely head canon, there is no evidence of such thing happening. Ergo, it didn´t happen.

 

Varric brings it up in the first conversation we have with him, stating that if Hawke becomes wealthy enough, the Templars won't be able to touch them. Which kinda suggests that extremely wealthy people are capable of bribing Templars to look the other way when it comes to illegal apostates (such as Dupuis), which is likely what was what Hawke was hoping to do.

 

Then you have the mages living in the Circle who have ties to wealthy indivuduals, such as Vivienne, mage!Trevelyan and Finn, all of whom have far more privileges than most other mages. Leandra being able to regularly visit Bethany in the Circle during Act 2 also shows this, as we're told by others (who are far less well off) that mages are being routinely denied the chance to see their families.

 

The clip only shows a version of a Hawke who has no balls and tries to cover up his lost manhood with bad humor. And what Cullen says or threatens is irrelevant. The matter of the fact is that he came into Hawke´s hovel with just one templar. A piece of cake for Hawke, mabari and Bethany. A mercenary/smuggler Hawke could have taken care of him and ran with his family.

 

So, you're saying that if we ignore all the valid reasons that make it clear that they've lost, that they have no choice to accept defeat and reluctantly respect their sister's wishes to go with the Templars into the Circle... then that therefore "proves" Hawke is a wimp?

 

Seems legit.

 

I don't like that Hawke was forced to lose Bethany into the Circle either, but I don't think it's their fault that it happened because there really was nothing that anyone could do in that situation that would have made it better.

[Baeraad]

Honestly, I'd call Hawke the least badass of all DA protagonists. In terms of raw power, I see the Inquisitor as being first, and in terms of fighting your way up from a disadvantage I see the Warden as being first. Hawke seems to be very good with a sword (or fireball) but not much else. In fact, her fighting skills never seem to do her any good, because while she wins every fight, she almost invariably does so after the irrevocable loss of whatever she was fighting for. She wins every battle and loses every war - and I find it hard to see anything particularly badass about that.

 

You know that part in DAI where the Nightmare asks Hawke if she "ever thought any of it really mattered?" In my head, her response was, "yes, at first, but after about the fifth time I charged heroically to the rescue only to arrive five seconds too late, I started to get the idea..."

[Mistic]

I'm equally impressed by the mount of things one can reveal and change. We are a vessel for codex unlocking and lore discovery.

 

But the Inquisitor themselves leaves much to be desired. It's like someone who has an amazing job.... and nothing else. That's all they do. That's the last person anyone wants to talk to at a party. And something you rarely find even in a shitty novel. It's Elder Scrolls level of writing.. where all the lore is good, but the hero is the bland godlike random person discovered in a ditch.

 

I agree. Again, I think it was a reaction against Hawke's much more defined personalities (to the point we can talk about things like a "Sarcastic Hawke" character), which some players didn't like. However, their way of backpedaling ended up having the worst of DA:O and DA2.

 

And I'm all for the return of origins. It's true that Hawke didn't have an origin story, but he took his whole "origin" with them, so to speak: mother, siblings, uncle, etc. They felt part of the world.

 

Even with their blander dialogue options, the Inquisitor would have felt more interesting if we did know those friends and family who are mentioned in war table missions or in a few dialogue options. I still remember how my casteless Dwarf thought he hit the jackpot when he was chosen to be a Warden, while my Dalish archer didn't want to leave her clan; my Human Noble had only vengeance in mind (at first) while my Dwarven Prince was just annoyed because he had lost his position and riches (Bhelen killed his brother? Who cares). Mage Warden was a sassy bookworm and City Elf a brave guy who cared a lot about his neighbours and family. I know there are hundres of versions out there, already deep and detailed before Ostagar.

 

But who is the Inquisitor before the Breach? Who knows? You could throw The Elder Scrolls prisoner into the fray and no one would notice. You can only start building your character after the Breach, in very strange and unusual circumstances that would feel alien to every background, so we never know who the Inquisitor really is when they are not doing their job.

[Uccio]

 

I'm not a fan of the Templars by any degree, but even I don't think they're all a bunch of petty-minded sadists who run a mass-rape factory.

 

The good Templars who don't rape or abuse the mages can't watch their charges all the time, nor is it easy to prevent the jerkasses they work with who might be doing such things if they aren't around to stop them, catch them in the act, or prove they've done such things before in the past?

 

Without concrete proof, any claim against the Templars who do abuse their authority is unfortunately just hearsay at that point. Cullen and others can investigate the claims that are made, but if they cannot find anything to prove those claims, it's hard to build a solid case against them.

 

That may be but having so many abuses against mages can not be all hear say, where there is smoke there is fire. And Cullen completely drops the ball with it.

 

Varric brings it up in the first conversation we have with him, stating that if Hawke becomes wealthy enough, the Templars won't be able to touch them. Which kinda suggests that extremely wealthy people are capable of bribing Templars to look the other way when it comes to illegal apostates (such as Dupuis), which is likely what was what Hawke was hoping to do.

 

Then you have the mages living in the Circle who have ties to wealthy indivuduals, such as Vivienne, mage!Trevelyan and Finn, all of whom have far more privileges than most other mages. Leandra being able to regularly visit Bethany in the Circle during Act 2 also shows this, as we're told by others (who are far less well off) that mages are being routinely denied the chance to see their families.

 

Yes but Varric talks about a mage living outside the circle.  Wealthy/influential people simply pay the templars to look away, it has nothing to do with paying templars inside the circle to protect loved ones. As for the other Circles, well Bethany does not reside there. She is in the Alcatraz version of Thedas, not some white collar prison with no fences. Leandra getting to see her does not prevent her being molested.

 

So, you're saying that if we ignore all the valid reasons that make it clear that they've lost, that they have no choice to accept defeat and reluctantly respect their sister's wishes to go with the Templars into the Circle... then that therefore "proves" Hawke is a wimp?

 

Seems legit.

 

I don't like that Hawke was forced to lose Bethany into the Circle either, but I don't think it's their fault that it happened because there really was nothing that anyone could do in that situation that would have made it better.

 

In a case where you have spent your whole life trying to keep her out of it, yes. Anyone in that specific situation should have prepared for that moment. But I guess it is not the fault of Hawke, just bad writing.

[stop_him]

No.

[helpthisguyplease]

 

 

 

That may be but having so many abuses against mages can not be all hear say, where there is smoke there is fire. And Cullen completely drops the ball with it.

 

 

Yes but Varric talks about a mage living outside the circle.  Wealthy/influential people simply pay the templars to look away, it has nothing to do with paying templars inside the circle to protect loved ones. As for the other Circles, well Bethany does not reside there. She is in the Alcatraz version of Thedas, not some white collar prison with no fences. Leandra getting to see her does not prevent her being molested.

 

 

In a case where you have spent your whole life trying to keep her out of it, yes. Anyone in that specific situation should have prepared for that moment. But I guess it is not the fault of Hawke, just bad writing.

 

You know who will prevent her from being molested?

Its fear Hawke is a renown adventurer and known for the mountains of bodies he leaves behind. Hell if you side with the mages they let him leave because lets be honest they know they might die. If somebody attacked Bethany do you thing he will still live?

There were a army of templars there to put things in perspective.

[GoldenGail3]

No.

[Sexxibrunette]

Let's see... Human Female Warden

 

- Your castle gets invaded by traitors

- abandoning your parents to their fate

- joining the GW so you can defeat the archdemon and hopefully seek justice for your parents death by killing Arl Howe

- never knowing your brothers fate until the very end of the ultimate battle

- doing the GW ritual and risking dying

-becoming leader of GW after what 3 hours?

- lots of battles and risking dying 807 times

- convince the witch of the group to have sex with your boyfriend

-killing the archdemon by yourself because well who else, the senior warden up and died.

-becoming queen oh but wait no honeymoon for you lots to do and by yourself because the king cant be bothered ( Awakening)

to finally leave again by yourself and find a cure to the taint ...

 

yeah Inquisitor ... hmhmmmmm. Not.

[Illegitimus]

They're not the most effective, influential or powerful.  But they do have the strongest, most fleshed out personality.  

[thewatcheruatu]

Most badass? I don't know about that. Favorite? Definitely.

 

I liked that she was just a regular sort of person trying to make the best out of a really bad situation in Kirkwall. That city was on a knife's edge for a decade, held in balance largely through Hawke's efforts. She never balked at doing whatever she had to in order to keep everything from falling totally apart, even with the awareness that an epically bad crisis was probably inevitable. And when that day came, she handled her business. For whatever it was worth. Kirkwall was her town, and she was its Champion. She wasn't trying to save the world. Just do her best in her little corner of it.