151 réponses à ce sujet

[Fixers0]

Sure, and in ME1 Eden Prime was described as being right the border of  the Terminus Systems. Or Noveria and feros being told as being in the Attican traverse, srsly the lore became complete mess after ME1.

[TeffexPope]

Ouah empiah grows.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Sure, and in ME1 Eden Prime was described as being right the border of  the Terminus Systems. Or Noveria and feros being told as being in the Attican traverse, srsly the lore became complete mess after ME1.

 

Let's be honest, it was a mess from the start. It only became obvious in the sequels.

[shodiswe]

I disagree. It is simply illogical that Humans have forces anywhere near that of the Council races. Remember that humans have only been part of galactic society for a few decades while the Salarians have been instrumental for centuries. The Salarians have settled more planets, have larger populations, stockpiled more resources, trained more soldiers and built more ships. I find it very unlikly that humans would be able to catch up to one of the most powerful races in the galaxy in only 30-40 years while other client races could not in centuries.

From the Codex and books it becommes clear that the key to humanitys fast rise was financial savy and drive, aswell as being good at Selling Dreams.
Several human Corporations quickly became some of the largest in the galaxy with Investors from all over the galaxy wanting to share the rewards of fast growing marketshares.
It's also one reason why the Volus ambassador is so hostile in ME1, humanity was intruding on one of their main roles. That is, being the financil genius of Citadel space.

Collonisation companies and expeditions were partialy funded by Investors around the galaxy, the more sucessful human bussines ventures became, the more humanitys new friends invested in their ventures and bussineses. Human Corporations also employed experts and cutting edge personel from around the galaxy and integrated into galact society at a recordpace.

Humanity also had several pieces of advanced Tech, most prominently bio and Medical Tech that had been outlawed in Citadel space. But since they had working Products that had been in use for quite some time, the Products got approved. Prodicts like Medigel that became a hit throughout the galaxy, and far too valuable for public Health and safety to be banned.

Over time human companies came to own most spaceborn refueling stations around the galaxy and had trade agreements and supplies contracts with most Alien companies around the galaxy.
Humanity could be charming, or pushy, or downright ruthless. Whatever suited their needs and expansion.
When the Council threatened with sanctions for humanity illegal AI research the Ambassador reminded the coulcil how much it would cost their own economies to do so, so they backed down and put in a few symbolic timelimited sanctions, to pretend they did something.

In a way, you could say that post first Contact Earth and the Earth Systems Alliance enjoyed a massive economic boom as capital and Resources were streaming in from around the galaxy and new colonies were extracting rawmaterials and goods for export and Earth was going through a new golden age as a centre of Commerce and something the other species aspired to become.

The main reason humanity expanded and grew in Power so quickly was due to humanitys stated adaptability and capitalistic nature, where ever there was an opportunity a human was there to make something of it. The systems Alliance enjoyed a massive boost to income as their Corporations grew to collosal size and the GNP/capita most likely became the highest in the galaxy.

Also, before finding the mass effect Tech from the proteans humanity had already tapped or began to tap all the Resources of their own starsystem and researching their own prototype FTL drives, which were abandoned once the Proteans Mass effect Tech and several functional Protean ships and a stockpile of Eezo was found on Mars, along with the Protean archives. And they had expanded to several systems with colonies before encountering the Turians.
Given that they knew the Proteans had existed it wasn't a huge surprise to find other aliens out there and they had prepared for it "somewhat".

The big advantage the more established species had was population numbers, and developed colonies. Humanity saw it as a bussines oportunity, rather than a dissadvantage. More customers and consures aswell as possible Investors! Asari or Salarian, they would still buy your Product if you knew what you were doing, hiring outside experts surely helped them develop the best bussines plans and a better understanding of their new markets.

If you look at the economic conditions on todays Earth it becommes clear that it's not impossible to accomplish in the Mass Effect universe, wealth doesn't necessarily come from population numbers but education and drive, aswell as freedom to persue those goals and bussines opportunities.

[Ahriman]

Uhm, you do realise that situtation you describe is like native americans having economic miracle after acquiring big european market for selling tobacco? No doubt Europe despite being thousand years ahead will be very interested in investing into such economy.

Millenium years long stagnation in science and production is utter nonsense, unless you live in a world ruled by religious fanatics, which I assume is not the case for Council races.

[N7Jamaican]

I think the hanar are quite dumb

[shodiswe]

Uhm, you do realise that situtation you describe is like native americans having economic miracle after acquiring big european market for selling tobacco? No doubt Europe despite being thousand years ahead will be very interested in investing into such economy.
Millenium years long stagnation in science and production is utter nonsense, unless you live in a world ruled by religious fanatics, which I assume is not the case for Council races.

The problem was that several pieces of the science behind the Mass Effect technology they were using was lacking with holes and gaps to it. They were reusing old designs they knew were working, some progress was made over that time, but not that much.
The basic research was deemd far to costly compared to just using what they had and do some tweaking on it. That was the Reapers plan from the beginning.
Also, Humanity started out with a fairly substantial cache of Protean knowledge and Tech from the Mars archives and fullu functional Protean starships. Aswell as a significant supply of stored Protean Eezo on Mars.
Enough to go to other systems where they found Eezo to mine.

As for the comparison with native americans.... The Asari and council races were probably a better first Contact than the warmongering greedy and competitive European nations that were constantly looking for an edge on the competition, at any cost. What had sparked the Renesance in europé was the competition between the citystates, monarks and nations of europé. Each trying to out do the other. Finding America for the second time in Europes history was just a continuation of that competition for prominence.

It was also a lot easier to conquer and plunder america and it's natives than their equialy driven and armed neighbours.

[Han Yolo]

I think the hanar are quite dumb

 

How dare you! Enkindle this!!!

[AlexiaRevan]

I think the hanar are quite dumb

They make assassin...how is that stupid ? 

[TeffexPope]

They make assassin...how is that stupid ? 

Yeah, hope there's some DLC or something where we can raid the Hanar Assassin Production Facilities.

 

sorry, couldn't resist

[AlanC9]

Sure, and in ME1 Eden Prime was described as being right the border of the Terminus Systems. Or Noveria and feros being told as being in the Attican traverse, srsly the lore became complete mess during ME1.

Fixed. Those maps never made much sense.

[AlanC9]

Millenium years long stagnation in science and production is utter nonsense, unless you live in a world ruled by religious fanatics, which I assume is not the case for Council races.

Well, the first starships humans ever built were close enough to turian tech to make the First Contact War something close to a fair fight.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Well, the first starships humans ever built were close enough to turian tech to make the First Contact War something close to a fair fight.

Not surprising since both are based on the technology the Reapers left behind for us to "develop along the paths we desire". 

[Kakistos_]

Sure, I can buy the "Humans are special" BS to a point but to have humans within a few decades be a match to species that have been gathering resources and expanding their populations for centuries breaks the suspension of belief factor when the premise of the series is humans being very new to galactic society. The thing that attracted me and many others to the ME series was not the thought of humans dominating everything, it was the well designed and thought out aliens and their respective strengths and cultures.

 

It was the T.V. spotlights on Asari Biotics and Salarian intelligence that caught my attention. The ME2-3 human worship that gave humans more fire power than established species and Biotics rivaling the naturally Biotic Asari really crush the premise and fantasy of the series. What is the point of creating all of these unique alien cultures and abilities if humans are going to be automatically better than them? Human worship is something that needs to be left behind in Andromeda.

[KaiserShep]

Maybe it's just me, but it seemed that the "humans are special" thing actually started in ME1. Here and there the setting pressed upon the idea that humans were the underdogs, yet despite this, persevered and advanced quickly, developed a powerful fleet, and managed to get one of their own in one of the highest positions of the galaxy's central government, all in a single game. Meanwhile, a volus diplomat grumbles about the raw deal his people gets, despite their being a part of galactic society far longer, and being a key player in its economy.

[Red Panda]

Let's not forget that Humanity is the most genetically diverse species as well as the most superior species as per the word of ME2, the game that most followed the lore.

 

Humanity has a manifest destiny to eclipse the other lesser races in the fictional Mass Effect Universe. Cerberus was only the beginning of a great series of ideas that will create an equally glorious future.

 

It's so wrong to call aliens stupid and dumb. They're not. They're quite crafty, but Humanity is way way better since the lore says so.

[KaiserShep]

Yeah, the aliens kinda never stood a chance. 

[Seboist]

Maybe it's just me, but it seemed that the "humans are special" thing actually started in ME1. Here and there the setting pressed upon the idea that humans were the underdogs, yet despite this, persevered and advanced quickly, developed a powerful fleet, and managed to get one of their own in one of the highest positions of the galaxy's central government, all in a single game. Meanwhile, a volus diplomat grumbles about the raw deal his people gets, despite their being a part of galactic society far longer, and being a key player in its economy.

 

Crazy thing is, even before the battle of the citadel, there's ambient dialogue in the citadel about how humanity is likely to end up getting a seat on the council eventually.

 

Let's not forget that Humanity is the most genetically diverse species as well as the most superior species as per the word of ME2, the game that most followed the lore.

 

Humanity has a manifest destiny to eclipse the other lesser races in the fictional Mass Effect Universe. Cerberus was only the beginning of a great series of ideas that will create an equally glorious future.

 

It's so wrong to call aliens stupid and dumb. They're not. They're quite crafty, but Humanity is way way better since the lore says so.

 

Cerberus was extremely poorly implemented. In ME1 they were a throw away side quest enemy with hardly any development that wasn't any different to Exogeni or Binary Helix,and whom was even implied to have been wiped out(Toombs mentioned how they were "blown up" if his quest is done last). Their mere existence post-ME1 is ultimately made questionable and redundant given how militarily powerful humanity is(second to the Turians it seems like) and how they even have a seat on the council.

 

Goes to show there was not only no plan for the trilogy post-ME1, but no vision either.

[Drone223]

Sure, I can buy the "Humans are special" BS to a point but to have humans within a few decades be a match to species that have been gathering resources and expanding their populations for centuries breaks the suspension of belief factor when the premise of the series is humans being very new to galactic society. The thing that attracted me and many others to the ME series was not the thought of humans dominating everything, it was the well designed and thought out aliens and their respective strengths and cultures.

 

It was the T.V. spotlights on Asari Biotics and Salarian intelligence that caught my attention. The ME2-3 human worship that gave humans more fire power than established species and Biotics rivaling the naturally Biotic Asari really crush the premise and fantasy of the series. What is the point of creating all of these unique alien cultures and abilities if humans are going to be automatically better than them? Human worship is something that needs to be left behind in Andromeda.

If the leaks are to be true the survival of humanity is going to be a major factor in the story so don't get your hopes up.

[Kabooooom]

The Citadel is not invulnerable. A Mass Effect 1 era codex entry says that it can sustain a constant bombardment for several days with the most advanced weaponry before sustaining significant damage. This is before Reaper tech is discovered. The Reapers could have blasted through, especially in a concentrated bombardment. Then they can send in troops through the resulting breach, open it, and seize control of the network.

Can you find this Codex entry? Because I've read the whole codex multiple times and I can't remember it. I tried to find it on the ME wiki, and similarly came up with nothing. I do, however, remember the codex stating it's supposed invulnerability.

Drone posted a pic of it being destroyed after the Crucible blows. Sure, except it is the most powerful device the galaxy had ever seen, strong enough to wipe all the Reapers out and spread across the entire galaxy. So I don't think that is really comparable.

[eyezonlyii]

Crazy thing is, even before the battle of the citadel, there's ambient dialogue in the citadel about how humanity is likely to end up getting a seat on the council eventually.

 

 

Cerberus was extremely poorly implemented. In ME1 they were a throw away side quest enemy with hardly any development that wasn't any different to Exogeni or Binary Helix,and whom was even implied to have been wiped out(Toombs mentioned how they were "blown up" if his quest is done last). Their mere existence post-ME1 is ultimately made questionable and redundant given how militarily powerful humanity is(second to the Turians it seems like) and how they even have a seat on the council.

 

Goes to show there was not only no plan for the trilogy post-ME1, but no vision either.

Not only was Cerberus a small thing, but there was a rumor told by Admiral Kahoku that they were actually a rogue black ops division of the Alliance

[Han Shot First]

Not only was Cerberus a small thing, but there was a rumor told by Admiral Kahoku that they were actually a rogue black ops division of the Alliance

 

Originally thats what Bioware intended. That got a little bit of a retcon though in ME2, where Bioware decided to drop the rogue black ops backstory and give Cerberus a large role in the game. As of ME2 Cerberus was never part of the Alliance. 

 

It was one of the more odd decisions made with the series. Why not just create some other rogue group to resurrect Shepard, if you don't want it to have any connection to the Alliance?

[Kabooooom]

Originally thats what Bioware intended. That got a little bit of a retcon though in ME2, where Bioware decided to drop the rogue black ops backstory and give Cerberus a large role in the game. As of ME2 Cerberus was never part of the Alliance.

It was one of the more odd decisions made with the series. Why not just create some other rogue group to resurrect Shepard, if you don't want it to have any connection to the Alliance?

Eh, this has always been a bit of a gray area to me. We know that TIM worked for the Alliance as a mercenary, and Cerberus was reportedly started as an Alliance black ops group that went rogue.

It is possible that it actually did start as a program that was fully funded by the Alliance throughout most of their activity from the late 2150's to the early 2180's, and once TIM had enough capital from the numerous front companies that he owned and enough intelligence networks and mobility/autonomy, he cut ties with the Alliance. Almost all of Cerberus' activity during that time directly benefitted the Alliance in some way, and gave them a step up relative to other species. Plausible deniability.

This would explain a number of curious facts relating to Cerberus, such as the Cord-Hislop aerospace company securing the Alliance military contract to construct the original Normandy, the degree of infiltration that they apparently have in high levels of the Alliance, the experimentation involving Alliance personnel with zero official repercussions, their acquisition of the Luna A.I. for use in the development of EDI, Armistan Banes...the list goes on and on.

It also makes sense strategically too. Corporations really are what holds the power in the MW, not the military. So, the Alliance creates a group that secretly runs some of the most powerful corporations in the galaxy (one of which directly benefits the Alliance with military tech), infiltrates politics to secure human favor, and secretly runs ethically questionable, but arguably mostly necessary, experiments that they can then deny all affiliation with whatsoever but still reap the benefits of them.

[Fixers0]

Fixed. Those maps never made much sense.

 

No thanks, I choose my words very carefully. The lore was always shaky but it didn't became a complete mess until ME2, extra emphasis on the complete. 

[Kabooooom]

Sure, and in ME1 Eden Prime was described as being right the border of the Terminus Systems. Or Noveria and feros being told as being in the Attican traverse, srsly the lore became complete mess after ME1.

The ONLY way that the Eden Prime thing would make sense in-lore would be by observing the fact that in mass effect, relative proximity of two star systems is not dependent upon absolute distance, but upon whether primary relays connect them. For example, a given star system may be located in Alliance Space and contain two primary relays. One relay connects to a system in the Attican Traverse, the other to a system on the edge of the Terminus. Thus, as it would take one or two relay jumps for a pirate in the Terminus to reach that system in Alliance Space, the system could be considered "on the edge of the Terminus". The majority of relays that compose the network aren't shown in-game. It is possible that one lies near Eden Prime that does exactly this.

But more likely it was just one of many lore amnesia events that the writers had.