I don't disagree with that last part. We do have the most to this date. But people are much more ready to troll in a thread with eyeroll gifs if it's a straight male request for anything. Doesn't always happen though, Cousland made a post and he wasn't trolled.
Yeah if a straight person here speaks even if it's friendly the tumblr crowd jumps right down his throat. It's actually become a pretty hostile forum.
Yeah if a straight person here speaks even if it's friendly the tumblr crowd jumps right down his throat. It's actually become a pretty hostile forum.
Can you provide me with any evidence of a straight person who 'speaks even if it's friendly' where "the tumblr crowd jumps right down his throat"?
I'm curious to see this as I've not experienced this.
Can you provide me with any evidence of a straight person who 'speaks even if it's friendly' where "the tumblr crowd jumps right down his throat"?
I'm curious to see this as I've not experienced this.
Can you provide evidence that the people who said "let the devs do what they want" and "romances don't matter" and the people complaining about their LI choices in Inquisition are one and the same, as you just claimed?
Can you provide evidence that the people who said "let the devs do what they want" and "romances don't matter" and the people complaining about their LI choices in Inquisition are one and the same, as you just claimed?
I've done that already in past threads. In fact, I've called specific people on it. The most common responses are either: a.) ignore my post; or b.) explain to me how 'it's not the same thing'.
Maybe because females don't care or don't have time because drooling over Cullen.
I've done that already in past threads. In fact, I've called specific people on it. The most common responses are either: a.) ignore my post; or b.) explain to me how 'it's not the same thing'.
So that's a no then. You know I like and respect you Dave, but don't call out others to provide evidence of their claims unless you're willing to do the same yourself. People might start to not believe you.
I don't disagree with that last part. We do have the most to this date. But people are much more ready to troll in a thread with eyeroll gifs if it's a straight male request for anything. Doesn't always happen though, Cousland made a post and he wasn't trolled.
So that's a no then. You know I like and respect you Dave, but don't call out others to provide evidence of their claims unless you're willing to do the same yourself. People might start to not believe you.
How is it a no? Because I'm not linking to specific individuals and calling them out again? Why would I troll people who aren't even in this conversation by calling them out a second time?
There's a huge difference between saying the fact that there are people who have done exactly what I've said (and have called out in the past in threads that are still somewhere on the BSN, I'm sure) and the hyperbolic claim that 'a straight person here speaks even if it's friendly the tumblr crowd jumps right down his throat'. Right? You clearly can see that, no? And, since you and I frequent the same threads, you know that I'm speaking the truth (at the very least about calling people out, if you aren't positive first-hand that they've done what I've said).
Again, there are crazies on both sides. And, yes, it's very possible that people have jumped down people's throats about issues when they shouldn't have. I, genuinely, haven't see that happening: a self-identifying straight person saying something friendly about LGBT content and having a bunch of the 'tumblr crowd' jumping down their throats in a hostile manner. Perhaps it's happened and I've missed it.
But this particular poster continues to use Chicken Little arguments about how 'hostile' it's become for straight people on the BSN and, in general, we all know that this isn't the case. Or, at least, it's no less 'hostile' for straight people than it is for everyone else.
I don't know why people are using the "tumblr crowd" like they and BSN are the same people
Because there are people on BSN who use "tumblr crowd", "feminist", and "SJW" as interchangeable concepts.
How is it a no? Because I'm not linking to specific individuals and calling them out again? Why would I troll people who aren't even in this conversation by calling them out a second time?
There's a huge difference between saying the fact that there are people who have done exactly what I've said (and have called out in the past in threads that are still somewhere on the BSN, I'm sure) and the hyperbolic claim that 'a straight person here speaks even if it's friendly the tumblr crowd jumps right down his throat'. Right? You clearly can see that, no? And, since you and I frequent the same threads, you know that I'm speaking the truth (at the very least about calling people out, if you aren't positive first-hand that they've done what I've said).
Again, there are crazies on both sides. And, yes, it's very possible that people have jumped down people's throats about issues when they shouldn't have. But this particular poster continues to use Chicken Little arguments about how 'hostile' it's become for straight people on the BSN and, in general, we all know that this isn't the case. Or, at least, it's no less 'hostile' for straight people than it is for everyone else.
You made a very specific claim, saying that they were the "exact same posters" and that made them hypocrites. I'm quite skeptical of that claim, as i'm sure you are of Saph's post. So I asked for proof like you did. You dismissed this claiming to have done so in the past, so yes. That would be a no, you declined to present proof of your (again, very specific) claim. Nobody asked you to name names.
You made a very specific claim, saying that they were the "exact same posters" and that made them hypocrites. I'm quite skeptical of that claim, as i'm sure you are of Saph's post. So I asked for proof like you did. You dismissed this claiming to have done so in the past, so yes. That would be a no, you declined to present proof of your (again, very specific) claim. Nobody asked you to name names.
I think we're getting OT a bit, but how exactly can I provide this evidence without naming names? You want me to show proof that people have posted that romances aren't important and then also complained about Cassandra/Josephine. How do I do that without calling specific people out again?
Look, if you really want me to do this, I'll find some time later today to dig through the threads and send you this information in a PM. Hopefully, if that's the case, you'll realize that I almost never speak in absolutes without having the evidence to back it up. Plus, we can get this conversation out of the thread in general since it's not productive here.
I think we're getting OT a bit, but how exactly can I provide this evidence without naming names? You want me to show proof that people have posted that that romances aren't important and then also complained about Cassandra/Josephine. How do I do that without calling specific people out again?
Look, if you really want me to do this, I'll find some time later today to dig through the threads and send you this information in a PM. Hopefully, if that's the case, you'll realize that I almost never speak in absolutes without having the evidence to back it up. Plus, we can get this conversation out of the thread in general since it's not productive here.
Sure, if you want to take time out of your day to do it. It's a fair bit of work, but you can link to threads where one such poster is saying one thing, and then to another where the poster is proven to be a hypocrite, that way you don't have to "out" people by naming and shaming them. Like I said, that's time consuming so I totally understand if you don't want to do it.
I'm starting to think this franchise is acting as porn for children.
I'm beginning to think parents are buying this game for teens and not reading the label.
You know you can find pictures of REAL naked women on the Internet, right?
And you can even go out into the real world and date real women in person, who will (possibly) then get naked right in front of you and do real sex with you! (Although I may be using "you" in the general sense here.)
I'll second this. Great post!
And here I thought Solas was one of the best romances because it allowed the player to determine what really happened. It could have just been a kiss or more up to them whether more happened.
I don't disagree with that last part. We do have the most to this date. But people are much more ready to troll in a thread with eyeroll gifs if it's a straight male request for anything. Doesn't always happen though, Cousland made a post and he wasn't trolled.
And here I thought Solas was one of the best romances because it allowed the player to determine what really happened. It could have just been a kiss or more up to them whether more happened.
I liked Josephine's romance because it allowed the player to decide how far it went, but Solas's...
The main problem I had with that one was that the entire romance took place in the Fade, as if there was no real-world (Thedas, that is) element to it. If the Solas romance allowed you to kiss him at any time the way the others did, I would have liked it much better. I was actually surprised at how uncomfortable the Solas romance made me. Without the physical acknowledgment (kissing, hand holding, whatever), it felt like it was a hidden thing, and that Solas was the one making the rules.
It's funny the way the different romances work on my psyche. In the Blackwall romance, the PC was the one calling the shots. He (Blackwall) was an eager participant in the romance, but he was the vulnerable one. In the Iron Bull romance, the inquisitor was the sub, but he or she was still the one calling the shots. Josephine's romance and Cullen's felt like the true partnership of equals (I loved both of them). Solas's romance reminded me of all the times in my life where I've been rejected or cared more about the other person than they cared for me. Except that never happened, obviously, as I'm way too cool for that. 
(Can I interest you in a bridge? It's quite a bargain!) I mean, it was supposed to be raw and painful, and that worked great, but the idea of going through all that over something that was never real... I guess it just works better for some people than others.
Uhm, the second and final of Solas scene takes place outside the Fade (and there are kisses there too and a kinda infamous buttgrab).
And I personally appriciate that his bounderies are kept. As someone who has a very sensitive personal space, and is introvert, I am relieved that all the LI's isn't been mashed into a one size fits all interactions.
Sometimes the mere options of a kiss and hug makes me uncomfortable because it signals to me that I have to be more physical than I am comfortable with or I won't fullfill their needs..
I like that Solas is only physical in private moments (and he is physical there, both at the ball and at the final scene). It fits his character.
And I like that Josephine doesn't have a sex scene. She strikes me as the wait untill married type of girl and her whole courting system is so... well, courting.
It would have felt weird for me to have that end in a sex scene.
I like the diversity of da.I and I hope they keep it up in the next game.
her outfit is a bit over the top I agree, it put me off somewhat, too disneyesque
I think you might be exaggerating a wee bit here, Snake. Yes, there were a handful of threads about Cass when she was announced as straight (most of that was reserved for Tumblr, which is usually pretty nonsensical as a rule), but to be honest, there were no where near the amount when compared to the "Cass and Josie look like men. Why is Bioware ruining video games with their pandering to gays and lesbians!?!" threads. To be fair, not all of the threads have been like that. There have been a few threads that were respectfully laid out and the conversations in them were mostly pretty civil (there are assholes on both sides of this debate).
I think the major blacklash here is because, for a decade, straight guys have been getting the lion's share of the resources when it comes to romances. And, throughout that time, there has been a very vocal minority claiming to represent said straight guys and claiming that: 1.) "Romances aren't a big deal. It's not a dating sim after all!"; and 2.) "No one should demand anything of the writers! They should be free to create whatever characters they want!"
Which is all fine and good. People are free to express those opinions. Then, in the very first game in which the straight male options aren't on the receiving end of the majority (well, Sebastian in DA2 could tip the scales there too) and the female LI's aren't traditionally beautiful, there are LITERALLY dozens and dozens of complaint threads about romances from straight guys. Some of which were created and endorsed by the very same straight guys I mentioned earlier. And they fail to see how this goes against everything that they claimed earlier.
It's the hypocrisy that people are reacting to. Not saying that straight guys can't advocate for the romance options that they want. I fully support them doing so. It's the fact that for years, women and LGBT players who value romances and have been advocating for the romance options that they want have been mocked for doing so. When the shoe's on the other foot, though, 'straight guys'* fall into the exact same patterns and don't see how it's hypocritical.
Basically, the condescending "romances aren't important to us so why are they important to you?" approach has been fully debunked with DA: I. The backlash against Cass and Josie just shows that romances are popular with all demographics and each demographic is concerned with getting what they want when it comes to romance content.
*DISCLAIMER: I am fully aware that "Not all straight guys". In all seriousness, there have been many, many straight guys who either: a.) don't a **** either way about romances then or now; b.) fully support(ed) women and LGBT players advocating for more options; and/or c.) have been advocating for what they want this whole time. Obviously, I'm not referring to any of them. Painting a whole demographic with the same brush isn't cool.
Hello Dave -- I'd really trust that you'd understand that I'm never one for limiting another person's request. I myself would like to qualify for the diclaimer level B. I was really surprised to find out that they went back on their decision to make Cullen Bi, not the good kind of surprised, disappointed.
I'm speaking on a macro level it just seems that if you make a request, you best try Cousland's approach or else prepare for a dramatic increase in sarcastic gif replies. Some people use justifications as 'phrasing'. I feel it goes more beyond that. I think you said it yourself here on the thread that it's more to do with "Lions den resources" (which we can't really deny here). I just feel like we're the accepted targets of "HAH NO" responses because it's rude to do it toward gay men and straight/bi/gay women. It's all I've really seen on the forums and that's why I'm voicing my PERSONAL observation. It means I may be wrong, but this is what I see.
Hello Dave -- I'd really trust that you'd understand that I'm never one for limiting another person's request. I myself would like to qualify for the diclaimer level B. I was really surprised to find out that they went back on their decision to make Cullen Bi, not the good kind of surprised, disappointed.
I'm speaking on a macro level it just seems that if you make a request, you best try Cousland's approach or else prepare for a dramatic increase in sarcastic gif replies. Some people use justifications as 'phrasing'. I feel it goes more beyond that. I think you said it yourself here on the thread that it's more to do with "Lions den resources" (which we can't really deny here). I just feel like we're the accepted targets of "HAH NO" responses because it's rude to do it toward gay men and straight/bi/gay women. It's all I've really seen on the forums and that's why I'm voicing my PERSONAL observation. It means I may be wrong, but this is what I see.
I think that it depends on the request. For example, there's a huge difference between:
"You know what I'd like to see? A blonde female LI for straight guys. I think blondes are really attractive and the only female blonde LI lately has been Sera, who was f/f only. Bioware, can you make this happen?"
and
"I think Bioware needs to stop pandering to the SJWs and give us a sexy straight blonde lady. Their fanbase is mostly made of straight guys, so they should know that many straight guys like blondes instead of the ugly she-men like Cassandra and Josephine. I wish feminists and gays would stop shoving their agenda down our throats and just let Bioware make the characters that they want......"
The same request asked in two different ways. Anyone (regardless of gender or sexuality) who makes the former statement would have my support and, I suspect, the support of most people. Anyone (regardless of gender or sexuality) who makes the latter statement is going to be met with sarcasm from me and, I suspect, many other people. Unfortunately, many of the requests for options for the straight male PCs have been the latter. Not all of them, but most of them, I'd guess. Do I think it's indicative of straight males? Not at all. It's a few crazies who give the rest bad names. But I do think that this is why these threads are met with skepticism right now.
And, to be clear, I'd do the same to a gay guy who said something like, "Bioware, why do you continue to discriminate against gay men. The only gay characters that you've given us were Cortez, who's a minor character, and Dorian, who's a walking stereotype. You clearly don't value us as customers since you keep marginalizing us and giving us these terrible representations......" In fact, I have said the same to people who have done that. To me, and I really do believe the majority of posters, it's about what you ask for and how you ask for it, versus your sexuality or gender.
I was sad when I found out that Josephine was essentially the chaste/asexuial romance. More so when I realized that it's one of the two options for a straight guy.
Then I got over it, because Josephine's a thoroughly uninteresting character.
All I can do now is hope that, in future DA titles, they make the "extra Representation" LIs extras outside of any kind of 2/2/2 structure, rather than making more choices for straight females.
This is why straight males who whine get a harsher reaction than others, because it sounds more ****** whiny. "I can't have any fun because the others kids got more toys than I did."
If they sucked it up and dealt with it like they had a pair, the way everyone else has been expected to since the beginning of ****** time, there wouldn't be this many eye roll gifs.
This is why straight males who whine get a harsher reaction than others, because it sounds more ****** whiny. "I can't have any fun because the others kids got more toys than I did."
If they sucked it up and dealt with it like they had a pair, the way everyone else has since the beginning of ****** time, there wouldn't be this many eye roll gifs.
-edited for maturity-
Daev at least put it alot more eloquently. I don't see why you had to come in and attack people but, go ahead.
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