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Low level runs


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#1
earthwormchuck163

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low level solo challenge = finish the game with a solo character without ever touching the level up button

I just picked up bg2ee in the steam sale after not playing bg in years, and I've been doing low level playthrough with a half-orc berserker. I'm just finishing up the underdark, just need to kill Adalon (I'm gonna want the human flesh armor later for those save bonuses and MR). So far everything has been pretty straightforward, but I expect it will get pretty challenging once I get to ToB. I am pretty sure it will be possible though.

I'm curious to figure out which classes are capable of doing this. I'm reasonably certain that it should be possible with any warrior class.

Has anyone ever tried this with a non-warrior class?

 

I think the next best bet would be a cleric build of some sort, but I haven't thought about it too much.

Thieves seem like they will be way too squishy to do much of anything in the late game.

An arcane caster miiiight be able to do it by very carefully hoarding scrolls in order to be able to briefly simulate a higher level, but I seriously doubt that there are enough high level scrolls for all the hard fights.

 

I'm doing all this with no mods btw



#2
Grond0

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How are you able to beat things like dragons with a L1 solo warrior?



#3
Aasim

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How are you able to beat things like dragons with a L1 solo warrior?

I don't think he does that; iirc you don't really need to kill a single dragon, at least not in SoA. Using invisibility can get you pretty far in this game, but I don't know how ToB is to be handled. 


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#4
Grond0

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It was ToB I had in mind.  I agree that SoA seems feasible.


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#5
earthwormchuck163

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I'm using the starting level you get when you roll up a character. So for bg2, you start at the bg1 exp cap. For a fighter that puts you at level 7. Still fairly weak, but not nearly as bad as level 1.

Actually if you're just trying to clear SoA I think it might actually be possible to do it at lvl 1, though I'm not really sure at all. The only dragon that you are supposed to fight in SoA to advance the plot is Irenicus's black dragon in Suldanessellar, and I think it might be possible to hide in shadows and pick-pocket him for the relevant quest item. I'm not sure though. If that works then you can probably do it, since there are ways to cheese your way through most of the rest of the game as well.

I'm aiming to finish ToB though, with a lvl 7 character. So far I've been able to beat pretty much everything I come across in a relatively fair fight. I am trying to avoid cheese as much as possible. So far no Vhailor's helm nonsense, no shield of Balduran, no protection from undead, etc.

Actually I did use a protection scroll for Kangaxx but in hindsight it really wasn't necessary. I could have done it just by using some summons to eat the insta-kill spells from his first form (death spell is actually a no-save insta-death since I am below lvl 8), use berserk immunities to ignore his disabling spells, and belt of inertial barrier to avoid getting slaughtered by horrid wiltings. Then just wait out his protections while healing with potions until I can wack him to death. Then use the second berserk for the demi-lich form (berserk is immune to imprisonment).

Abusing the breadth of equipment available goes a really long way, even if you avoid the really cheesy strats.

I don't expect to run into any serious trouble until I get to Draconis. After that point though I am really uncertain.

btw I managed to kill Adalon in a very clean fight, currently on Suldanessellar. Next tricky bit is the black dragon but at this point I am pretty sure I have SoA tier dragons on lock.



#6
Grond0

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Understood - L7 seems a bit more realistic for ToB, although I suspect you will still find Draconis a tough opponent.  I have a feeling that you can give the dragon in Suldanesselar all your money and equipment to get the required item (less the huge pile of equipment at your feet of course), so you don't need to fight there.


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#7
earthwormchuck163

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There's a few things that that I am counting on to make ToB doable.

1) my armor class isn't affected by my low level, and you already have something like 1/2 the hp of a fully leveled character by the time you're at 7. So my melee survivability won't be affected as severely as one might initially fear. Of coure I also lose out on hardiness, so probably I will be only be living for ~1/4 as long as an equivalently equipped high level character. I'm hoping that this is still enough for me to be able to do some damage while having time to heal myself in between (with potions or rod of resurrection if I really need it).

2) Speaking of damage, probably the single most important difference between a lvl 7 vs high level warrior aside from HLAs is the thac0. This means that thac0 boosting equips are super important for this run. Fortunately most enemies don't actually have very good armor class so this isn't usually even an issue. In SoA the only things that are seriously hard to hit are dragons, and these I've taken care of by using strength boosting potions + potion of heroism/power + berserk. In ToB, BEFORE any of the hard fights, I get to pick up the answerer which should solve my thac0 problem for the rest of the game with it's +2 AC penalty on each hit. One thing I'm unsure of is whether this effect works when you hit a stoneskinned opponent. That could make a really huge difference in the final battle since iirc Mel spams stoneskin a lot., and I have no way of getting rid of it other than whacking them.

3) On a related note, I will be missing greater whirlwind, which means that I have to work a bit harder to get decent DPS. The plan is to used improved haste (bracers of blinding strike, gaxx, improved cloak of protection) together with belm in the off hand and some long sword in the on hand. I have ***** in longswords and * in two-weapon style, so this gives me 8 attacks per round at +2 thac0 (plus offhand which basically never hits). Due to the crappiness of most enemies AC this is enough to give very reasonable damage output most of the time. Only in cases where I already have really hard time hitting my opponent does the thac0 penalty matter, and for those fights I will normally need a shield equipped to stay alive anyways.

4) Finally, there's my saving throws. These are somewhat lackluster, and I expect this to be the biggest source of trouble in ToB. I'm hoping that a combination of every layering every single save boosting item I can get my hands on + berserk immunities + equip-specific immunities will be enough to get me through. berserk already protects me from everything I can think of except blindness and save-or-die. I can also equip various weapons in my off-hand to protect against everything except those + stun and maze. I can switch between these in combat too, so they need not interfere with my offense in any serious way. Once I get Hindo's Doom +4 I will be able to equip death ward at will so I won't have to worry about insta deaths anymore either. Edit: I forgot about the fact that I also have potions that grant huge save bonuses, so this probably won't be an issue anyways.

I'm also somewhat concerned that ToB fights will tend to last longer than my more short-lived buffs, but I will deal with that issue when I come to it.



#8
Aasim

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Yeah, level 7 is probably doable. I don't know if you can somehow cheese out Draconis, if you can then it's doable for sure. 



#9
earthwormchuck163

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I ran through watcher's keep today. I was able to beat demogorgon by drinking a potion of absorption (+10 AC vs blunt damage, including demogorgon's tentacles), equipping Roranach's Horn (50% resistance to blunt damage), and then just wailing on him with blackrazor and improved haste after first lowering his AC with a few hits from the answerer. The 15% chance of healing together with a some potions was easily enough to keep up with his damage output, so he went down pretty easily.

So far this challenge has actually been ridiculously easier than I expected. I never realized how broken some of the equipment in this game is. Especially blackrazor, since I've never actually used it before (I almost always take the Good choices in Hell).

 

Maybe I should seriously try doing a lvl 1 run next.


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#10
earthwormchuck163

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Draconis is defeated. It was quite difficult, but certainly doable. The main challenge compared to the other dragons is that he casts remove magic multiple times, so I couldn't rely on pre-buffs at all. I Relied on equipment to give me acid resistance (black dragon scales + darksteel shield + helm of the rock) because he can't dispel those. I cast improved haste before he transformed, then used the spectral brand's "armor piercing strike" ability right as he transformed. That gave me enough of a thac0 boost to hit him several times with the soul reaver before he could dispel my haste, and that gave him enough of a thac0 penalty that he had a somewhat hard time hitting me when I equipped the shield. Then I used an arrow of dispelling fired from the heartseeker bow (which allows you to get a +7 thac0 boost for a few seconds) to get rid of his haste and stoneskins. Then I chased him into a corner so he couldn't run away, and hit him with the answerer until I was connecting every time. Finally I switched to the blackrazor and kept hitting him until he died, healing with a rod of resurrection a few times in between.