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What's the obsession with Shepard and the Milky Way?


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#126
In Exile

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He wasn't Space Jesus until they thought it was a good idea to kill off the protagonist a the start of the second volume of the trilogy.

 

And even then he was still largely an action hero, cheesy one-liners at all.

 

It wasn't until ME3 and Shepard got all emo (paragon Shep, anyway) that we get the whole "The Shepard must die for our sins"

 

Shepard was Space Jesus since the end of ME1. You had a scene where you figuratively came back from the dead as a triumphant figure in the wreckage of the presidium. 



#127
FKA_Servo

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Shepard was Space Jesus since the end of ME1. You had a scene where you figuratively came back from the dead as a triumphant figure in the wreckage of the presidium. 

 

Is that really all it takes?



#128
Iakus

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Shepard was Space Jesus since the end of ME1. You had a scene where you figuratively came back from the dead as a triumphant figure in the wreckage of the presidium. 

Does that make Indiana Jones a Messiah?

 

edit:  or was the fridge the Messiah?



#129
Golden_Persona

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Andromeda may be hyped as a new frontier to explore, but it's pretty clear the real reason for going there:  they broke the old setting, and are unwilling to admit it.

That's exactly what I said >__> You wanting them to admit it when its already obvious is just for petty self satisfaction. Them going to Andromeda is enough of a confession.

 

And what has the series done, exactly? 

When Mass Effect was just a brand new IP with no identity they had to build it up from nothing. ME became about characters from all walks of life with their own customs, habits, and traits trying to survive together in a galactic community. It was about finding out how fragile all of our places in the universe truly are, and trying to become much bigger than ourselves to stop a great threat. It had characters who were all unique from each other. It had exotic alien technology. Every main  character you met with had their own stories, their own turmoils and challenges to overcome. Are you seriously telling me all of these things occured because it took place in the MWG? No, they happened because it took place in a universe Bioware created. You simply cannot argue what Mass Effect has meant to a lot of people. There would be no backlash to the ME3 ending that has persisted to this day if the Mass Effect series didn't mean anything. It once meant nothing to people, and grew up to mean a lot to people. There's no reason to think they can't do it again, and not allowing them to doesn't do anyone justice.

 

If you didn't like any of that to begin with then how the F did you ever become a fan of ME? Sounds like it was never your cup of tea to begin with.

 

Wut?

What is so hard to understand about that? If the next game took place in unexplored sections of the MWG it would make no difference than if they just put it into Andromeda, except they get to escape the endings. It'd still be a foreign region of space we've never visited before. We're still going to see old races like the Krogan. Nothing is lost or gained because it takes place in the unexplored Andromeda rather than unexplored regions of the MWG. It's going to feel foreign regardless of the name of the galaxy it takes place it.

 

If we visit a cluster where we're surrounded by violet and blue colors on the galaxy map, as well as fictional planets that don't actually exist, it makes no difference whether its in the MWG or not, it's going to look the same regardless. You could take any of the designs of the MWG clusters from the original trilogy that we visited and slap their design onto Andromeda and there would be no difference.

 

It wasn't the MWG that made the series interesting, it was what was in it. Planets like Omega, characters like Aria. Whose to say Andromeda isn't going to be filled with its own memorable location and characters? They weren't interesting because they took place in the MWG.


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#130
Golden_Persona

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I just want to know what the difference would be between this game taking place in the unexplored Andromeda region, or an unexplored region of the MWG. It's still unexplored, it's still foregin, we'd still know nothing about it. It'd have as much to do with the previous trilogy as it does taking place in Andromeda. The setting isn't what is important, it's about what they're going to fill into the setting. The series is going to start fresh regardless of where it takes place. Saying that ME was defined by taking place in the MWG is shallow.



#131
Guest_Jackwave_*

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IMO, Shepard is obviously an allusion to Jesus. The name "Shepard", the resurrection, project "Lazarus", Shepard even 'dies' at the age of 33, which is the same age Jesus is believed to have 'died'. Also the whole 'sacrificing Shepard to save everyone else' thing.



#132
FKA_Servo

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IMO, Shepard is obviously an allusion to Jesus. The name "Shepard", the resurrection, project "Lazarus", Shepard even 'dies' at the age of 33, which is the same age Jesus is believed to have 'died'. Also the whole 'sacrificing Shepard to save everyone else' thing.

 

Clearly, but can we at least agree that it was stupid?



#133
Golden_Persona

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I fully admit to not explaining what I mean by "space is space so location doesn't matter" properly. Basically if you were to take a jungle planet, you notice that it's not special whether its placed in unexplored Andromeda, or unexplored MWG. Where its located doesn't define it. If you were to place an interesting story arc, or mission, with great characters on that planet, it suddenly gets an identity and becomes memorable. However, once again it doesn't matter if those events took place in Andromeda or MWG because suddenly its characters and story give it an identity. It's location doesn't control whether the story is memorable, or if you meet interesting characters. Whether or not the jungle planet was in an unexplored region of the MW, or if it was located in unexplored Andromeda does not define that jungle planet it any way.

 

That's what I mean by the location of where the interesting story or characters takes place has no effect on it being interesting. At this point great characters and story have defined what makes the worlds in ME interesting, it's what makes any Bioware game interesting. It wasn't the name of the setting. Bioware can write a good story and characters no matter what their worlds are called. If you are the type who doesn't think Bioware games have good characters or story I again ask how you've managed to stay a fan of them. DA2, ME3, and Inquisition should have been the 3 strikes for Bioware for those people at this point, since those games see constant ridicule.



#134
Ahriman

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IMO, Shepard is obviously an allusion to Jesus. The name "Shepard", the resurrection, project "Lazarus", Shepard even 'dies' at the age of 33, which is the same age Jesus is believed to have 'died'. Also the whole 'sacrificing Shepard to save everyone else' thing.

I wonder if Pathfinder will be allusion to Moses or Noah.

 

Clearly, but can we at least agree that it was stupid?

Classic sci-fi and fantasy references are okay in case of ME setting, except for the ending when it was sacrifice for the sake of sacrifce.



#135
Golden_Persona

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As for the Shepard name thing, I think the universe deserves bonus points for bringing into existence the name of an astronaut who also has the last name representing a messiah, so a sci-fi video game series could have a whose-name-is-too-perfect-for-their-role protagonist. Such things can't be a coincidence, so hooray universe.



#136
Iakus

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That's exactly what I said >__> You wanting them to admit it when its already obvious is just for petty self satisfaction. Them going to Andromeda is enough of a confession.

 

ANd what reason do I have to believe they won't do the same ting to Andromeda.  Because clearly they didn't make a mistake before  <_<

 

 

 

When Mass Effect was just a brand new IP with no identity they had to build it up from nothing. ME became about characters from all walks of life with their own customs, habits, and traits trying to survive together in a galactic community. It was about finding out how fragile all of our places in the universe truly are, and trying to become much bigger than ourselves to stop a great threat. It had characters who were all unique from each other. It had exotic alien technology. Every main  character you met with had their own stories, their own turmoils and challenges to overcome. Are you seriously telling me all of these things occured because it took place in the MWG? No, they happened because it took place in a universe Bioware created. You simply cannot argue what Mass Effect has meant to a lot of people. There would be no backlash to the ME3 ending that has persisted to this day if the Mass Effect series didn't mean anything. It once meant nothing to people, and grew up to mean a lot to people. There's no reason to think they can't do it again, and not allowing them to doesn't do anyone justice.

If you didn't like any of that to begin with then how the F did you ever become a fan of ME? Sounds like it was never your cup of tea to begin with.

And now that galactic community is no more.  It died in a RGB explosion.

 

Our place in the universe was destroyed by a galactic threat, forcing us to become intergalactic vagabonds.  

 

Those characters?  Gone.  All gone.  The tech?  also largely gone.  No more Citadel.  No more mass relays (the very symbol of the series) 

 

Sure there are great characters and interesting stories.  But you know what?  That's not unique to Mass Effect.  Simply stamping an N7 logo on a character and saying "Mako!" doesn't make a game Mass Effect.  If Blizzard were to make another scifi game, will that automatically be a Starcraft game?

 

Sure Mass Effect once meant something.  Sadly, now it seems to mean "keep trying to get golden eggs out of that goose we killed"

 

 

 

What is so hard to understand about that? If the next game took place in unexplored sections of the MWG it would make no difference than if they just put it into Andromeda, except they get to escape the endings. It'd still be a foreign region of space we've never visited before. We're still going to see old races like the Krogan. Nothing is lost or gained because it takes place in the unexplored Andromeda rather than unexplored regions of the MWG. It's going to feel foreign regardless of the name of the galaxy it takes place it.
If we visit a cluster where we're surrounded by violet and blue colors on the galaxy map, as well as fictional planets that don't actually exist, it makes no difference whether its in the MWG or not, it's going to look the same regardless. You could take any of the designs of the MWG clusters from the original trilogy that we visited and slap their design onto Andromeda and there would be no difference.
It wasn't the MWG that made the series interesting, it was what was in it. Planets like Omega, characters like Aria. Whose to say Andromeda isn't going to be filled with its own memorable location and characters? They weren't interesting because they took place in the MWG.

 

It's going to feel like a giant @$$pull because there is no lore-friendly reason why we should be there.  Or even if, by some miracle, it is possible, why we shouldn't be fighting the Reapers all over again.  Heck I made an entire thread on this topic alone.

 

If it was still in the Milky Way, we'd still have the relay network (an unexplored network) to visit distant stars, to go beyond known borders.  Visit strange new worlds, and all that.  

 

The galaxy map isn't just pretty colors, it's a picture.  A mosaic we could never hope to fill in our lifetimes, and now never will.  Omega and other places it connected to are lost to us forever.  the best we can hope for would be a "Totally Not Omega" Expy.


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#137
teh DRUMPf!!

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Over 99% of the galaxy for starters.


Which is fundamentally no different than 100% of another galaxy.

#138
Iakus

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Which is fundamentally no different than 100% of another galaxy.

 

Well, except you have a much better chance of getting a crew there alive than to another galaxy.



#139
Mcfly616

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Of course, I'll just have to wholeheartedly disagree with all of that, but whatevs. 

 

"The Reapers are coming" is also an issue I have, but another issue I have is that the entire setting stagnates. You may not believe that it would, but the politics, technology, and the state of the entire galaxy are all reset. Batarians are still slavery scum, krogan are still boned by the genophage, quarians are still stuck in their flotilla, the geth are still the enemy, though we might not even see them at all anyway, and there's still reaper crap littered throughout the galaxy, like husks. And it's all the same crap everywhere. I don't care about any of these schlubs living parallel to Shepard anymore. It all eventually gets scorched anyway. 

 

So what is so good about going backward in time in the MEU? There's nothing about the past in that setting that's particularly compelling or charming in the least.

 Our sun will one day be unable to sustain us. This planet will probably be unable to sustain us much sooner than that. By your logic, nobody has an interesting story to tell, because one day everything  will change on a cosmic scale. As I said, these problems are nothing but issues of your own and the individuals who feel the same way. It's not an obstacle in the way of creating a compelling story. I can't think of a single story-telling medium that just stopped telling stories that take place before the 1940's because "hey, WW2 happens and since it does, there's nothing interesting to talk about prior to it." That's ridiculous logic.

 

Nah, it wouldn't stagnate. You imply that all there is to talk about is politics and the social issues of individual species. Only a handful of people even know the Reapers exist, so that's not a problem. There's trillions of beings in the MEU. Bioware can give us any kind of adventure they want. People didn't stop living out their lives and going on their own journey's just because Shepard thwarted a Geth attack on the Citadel.

 

 

 

Nothing compelling or charming? You assume we've heard everything there is to know. All the codex covers is major military campaigns and the like.


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#140
KaiserShep

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IMO, Shepard is obviously an allusion to Jesus. The name "Shepard", the resurrection, project "Lazarus", Shepard even 'dies' at the age of 33, which is the same age Jesus is believed to have 'died'. Also the whole 'sacrificing Shepard to save everyone else' thing.


Sure glad my Shepard sacrificed the synthetics instead. Christ allegories can suck a quad.
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#141
dreamgazer

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Sure glad my Shepard sacrificed the synthetics instead. Christ allegories can suck a quad.


One of the unsung strengths of the destroy ending.
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#142
Bizantura

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Shepards story is done, have no problems with that.

 

Being paid very big bucks to be unimaginative and running to a other galaxy like a frightend litle child and so many people welcome that!!  This "non inspirational acceptence" leading to a certain disconnect simply boggles my mind.

 

It is not like those creative persons getting a average wage, for what they are paid I expect something in return and not something we all could come up with.


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#143
Torgette

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Shepards story is done, have no problems with that.

 

Being paid very big bucks to be unimaginative and running to a other galaxy like a frightend litle child and so many people welcome that!!  This "non inspirational acceptence" leading to a certain disconnect simply boggles my mind.

 

It is not like those creative persons getting a average wage, for what they are paid I expect something in return and not something we all could come up with.

 

Why is going to Andromeda unimaginative and "running to safety"? That's a huge risk to take vs. just canonizing an ending and staying in familiar locations, even more so considering the series is being handed off to a different studio. New locations, new characters, new stories & etc. is a very hard thing to do when you have to live up to the success of previous games.


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#144
Iakus

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Why is going to Andromeda unimaginative and "running to safety"? That's a huge risk to take vs. just canonizing an ending and staying in familiar locations, even more so considering the series is being handed off to a different studio. New locations, new characters, new stories & etc. is a very hard thing to do when you have to live up to the success of previous games.

Not to mention working in the shadow of the disaster that was ME3.

 

Still doesn't mean it was the right move though.



#145
dreamgazer

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I have my objections to moving away from the Milky Way, but I wouldn't call transporting this galaxy's tech and context to Andromeda and building up a new setting to interact with "unimaginative". If anything, it's probably the most ambitious choice of the lot.

#146
AresKeith

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Not to mention working in the shadow of the disaster that was ME3.

 

Still doesn't mean it was the right move though.

 

According to who?



#147
Iakus

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According to who?

The only one who matters

 

Me  :D



#148
FKA_Servo

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I have my objections to moving away from the Milky Way, but I wouldn't call transporting this galaxy's tech and context to Andromeda and building up a new setting to interact with "unimaginative". If anything, it's probably the most ambitious choice of the lot.

 

I think the "colonization" spin makes it a very interesting move, myself.



#149
Iakus

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I think the "colonization" spin makes it a very interesting move, myself.

Sounds an awful lot like Starcraft, imo.

 

I swear if Vespine gas ends up replacing eezo...



#150
AresKeith

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I have my objections to moving away from the Milky Way, but I wouldn't call transporting this galaxy's tech and context to Andromeda and building up a new setting to interact with "unimaginative". If anything, it's probably the most ambitious choice of the lot.

 

I think the "colonization" spin makes it a very interesting move, myself.

 

Andromeda also could introduce a concept I've always wondered about with them being more advanced than the Milky Way