The Inquisitor did have an iconic appearance, through their equipment.
Why do you think most of their gear looked like trechcoats?
There you have it.
The gear and the Eye of the Inquisition are iconic.
The importance of iconic appearance for the protagonist.
Débuté par
Mr. Homebody
, juin 30 2015 05:32
#51
Posté 30 juin 2015 - 07:17
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#52
Posté 30 juin 2015 - 07:20
FKA_Servo
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A lot of developers goes backwards in certain things. Take DICE's Star Wars Battlefront which is a game that only has like 4 planets and no space battles. Then you take Battlefront 2, a 2005 game that feature more content (including Space Battles) than the 2015 version.
Well, I don't think the two things are directly comparable. One is to some extent understandable and forgivable, the other is... not.
Your example is like Daggerfall (>10,000 settlements, >100,000 sq mile world, but cut and paste Doom 2 visuals) transitioning to Morrowind (tiny, ><6 sq mile world, but new tech, 3D, everything lovingly placed). The tech and detail in the new thing maybe precludes something of the scale of the old thing.
This is more like shipping a game without a storage box when the previous games in the series had one. Which is another boneheaded thing they did with DAI that they had to walk back later.
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#53
Posté 30 juin 2015 - 07:21
FKA_Servo
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There you have it.
The gear and the Eye of the Inquisition are iconic.
I suspect you're both being sarcastic, but this is absolutely acceptable to me.
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#54
Posté 30 juin 2015 - 07:39
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I suspect you're both being sarcastic, but this is absolutely acceptable to me.
Not this time.
When I think of DA:I, I think of the Eye. Probably helps that I played DA2 and still remember the awful ending in detail.
#55
Posté 30 juin 2015 - 07:42
bondari reloads.
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PC gamers can use third party programs to make a numbered grid across the grids used in the CC. It lets them more accurately plot out where the sliders are.
I'm assuming this poster is just once again referring to the barely usable CC, and how if we had face codes, coords for the grids, or the ability to save and upload character presets to the Keep, it would be much, much better.
Indeed, but you're given an infinite number of notches while keeping the number of "sliders" to a minimum. I sucked at it, but barring the lack of facecodes it was an improvement.
Owners of a Specimen of the Master Race can use window transparency to easily align the windows (google Glass2K) and set the crosshair. It doesn't take longer than cc from scratch.
I've stopped caring about their use of the default generic white male in marketing, since there are never enough sales.
Still weird that attributes a protagonist usually has (agency, badassery and all that) is best represented through an iconic face that is neither darkly pigmented nor wears lipstick. It would not lead to an identity crisis in the player if it's, say, a woman's turn, would it?
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#56
Posté 30 juin 2015 - 07:44
Hiemoth
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For me, this is a tricky question and really depending on the direction of the game. Despite the point raised about the N7 symbol, Shepard was such a central character in the story by his personality alone that I always understood why they went with the iconic appearance in PR material, even if I wasn't a huge fan of Sheploo. With the Inquisitor, the helmet was a safe tool for it, but at the same time very little about the PR material for DAI was about the Inquisitor and thus it really didn't need that presence.
On a personal side, I would actually prefer to have the iconic appearances to at least be an available choice in the game. The two characters whose appearances worked best for me were actually the iconic FemShep in ME3 and Marion Hawke in DA2. I've never been that keen on crafting appearances in CC and usually find it more of a bore, especially since there is almost always some issue with the end result that ends up bugging me, while most of the base versions are bland by choice as they are meant to be what you build on. Having those characters that had unique appearances with a lot of details worked in to them was just something I got a lot of kick out when playing.
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#57
Posté 30 juin 2015 - 07:49
Heimdall
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I really don't think they need an iconic look, no more than the Inquisitor needed one anyway.
Just put a generic figure in armor, male or female I don't care, and run it through the advertisements and be sure to show off the character creator (Why Bioware marketing never makes it a point to show off the character creator is beyond me).
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#58
Posté 30 juin 2015 - 07:51
FKA_Servo
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I really don't think they need an iconic look, no more than the Inquisitor needed one anyway.
Just put a generic figure in armor, male or female I don't care, and run it through the advertisements and be sure to show off the character creator (Why Bioware marketing never makes it a point to show off the character creator is beyond me).
Maybe if they did, a majority if gamers wouldn't choose the "default" option.
Of course, I may be overestimating a majority of gamers.
#59
Posté 30 juin 2015 - 07:54
Valkyrja
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83% of ME2 players created their own Shepard. People are aware of the customization options.
#60
Posté 30 juin 2015 - 07:59
AlanC9
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1. It makes the protagonist universally memorable[/b]. The player may use default model or design his/her own version of the protagonist. Yet everyone easily recognize the iconic version. It is one of these things that helps to make the whole game/series unforgettable. One of the major disadvantages of DA:I is rather forgettable protagonist, especially compared to Shepard or even Hawke.
Really? Honestly, the first thing I think of when I think of Sheploo is this:
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#61
Posté 30 juin 2015 - 08:06
bondari reloads.
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Well, you can't say it's forgettable. Mission accomplished?
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#62
Posté 30 juin 2015 - 09:05
MrObnoxiousUK
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The Inquisitor did have an iconic appearance, through their equipment.
Why do you think most of their gear looked like trechcoats?
I agree it was to achieve a memorable look,but also for the utility factor as well,it is very difficult to explore the land in full plate armour without becoming exhausted very quickly.
#63
Posté 30 juin 2015 - 09:59
The Heretic of Time
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All faces need to be craftable using the CC tool. I hate that the iconic faces, when they exist, aren't editable.
Because I will always edit the face. I don't need to empathize with the player character; I populate his mind. I know his thoughts. Empathy isn't necessary.
It also isn't real, but that's a separate discussion.
If I'm given a character who isn't mine with whom I'm expected to empathize, I never will, and I will forever be indifferent to that character's welfare (as I was with Shepard - and Hawke).
If I can't play my character, I don't want to play at all.
For me it's the exact opposite.
I just can't empathize with a blank-slate character that doesn't have any substantial history or character traits. Of all these blank-slate characters that BioWare gave us, The Warden (DA:O) was the worst offender. He wasn't a character, he was merely an avatar, a lifeless, meaningless character without any substance. Hawke and Shepard were a bit better. The Inquisitor isn't really fleshed-out or interesting either.
I personally enjoy RPGs with pre-made, pre-defined characters a lot more. I can infinitely empathize more with characters like Geralt than I'll ever be able to empathize with The Warden or The Inquisitor.
The main difference between Geralt and the Warden/Inquisitor is that Geralt is a real character with personality traits and flaws, not a blank-slate empty shell meant for self-insert roleplay like the Warden/Inquisitor. Therefor it seems obvious that its easier to correlate and empathize with Geralt as a fellow human being (albeit fictional human being). To me the Warden/Inquisitor aren't humans, just puppets for me to control.
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#64
Posté 30 juin 2015 - 10:37
Torgette
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For me it's the exact opposite.
I just can't empathize with a blank-slate character that doesn't have any substantial history or character traits. Of all these blank-slate characters that BioWare gave us, The Warden (DA:O) was the worst offender. He wasn't a character, he was merely an avatar, a lifeless, meaningless character without any substance. Hawke and Shepard were a bit better. The Inquisitor isn't really fleshed-out or interesting either.
I personally enjoy RPGs with pre-made, pre-defined characters a lot more. I can infinitely empathize more with characters like Geralt than I'll ever be able to empathize with The Warden or The Inquisitor.
The main difference between Geralt and the Warden/Inquisitor is that Geralt is a real character with personality traits and flaws, not a blank-slate empty shell meant for self-insert roleplay like the Warden/Inquisitor. Therefor it seems obvious that its easier to correlate and empathize with Geralt as a fellow human being (albeit fictional human being). To me the Warden/Inquisitor aren't humans, just puppets for me to control.
I think who you empathize with in any story depends on each person, there have been movies where I didn't empathize at all with the designated hero but still enjoyed the overall movie anyways. Game wise in general there's also two dominant approaches with the player character - blank slate where it's more about the world around the you, and preset where the player character is their own person and central to the story. They're both valid ways of making games, I like games that feature both methods. Clearly Bioware prefers the latter, though Mass Effect started out the latter and slid more towards the former by the third installment.
I do agree about the Warden though, never really connected with them but did enjoy the world surrounding them.
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#65
Posté 30 juin 2015 - 10:57
Sylvius the Mad
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They're real if you make them real. They're not if you don't.For me it's the exact opposite.
I just can't empathize with a blank-slate character that doesn't have any substantial history or character traits. Of all these blank-slate characters that BioWare gave us, The Warden (DA:O) was the worst offender. He wasn't a character, he was merely an avatar, a lifeless, meaningless character without any substance. Hawke and Shepard were a bit better. The Inquisitor isn't really fleshed-out or interesting either.
I personally enjoy RPGs with pre-made, pre-defined characters a lot more. I can infinitely empathize more with characters like Geralt than I'll ever be able to empathize with The Warden or The Inquisitor.
The main difference between Geralt and the Warden/Inquisitor is that Geralt is a real character with personality traits and flaws, not a blank-slate empty shell meant for self-insert roleplay like the Warden/Inquisitor. Therefor it seems obvious that its easier to correlate and empathize with Geralt as a fellow human being (albeit fictional human being). To me the Warden/Inquisitor aren't humans, just puppets for me to control.
It's just like a tabletop RPG - you create your character from nothing. You choose everything about him, including his preferences and foibles.
And that's what I want. I can't roleplay a character whose thoughts I don't know, because those thoughts inform his actions.
There's no need for empathy, because I already know everything about him. I don't need to empathize with myself, just as I don't need to empathize with characters I create.
In fact, doing that would harm the game, because it would draw attention to the fact that I exist independently from the character, and that awareness inhibits roleplaying. Roleplaying consists of perceiving the game world from the character's point of view, not your own.
My character isn't a fellow human being, because there's no me to be the other end of the fellowship.
This does not, however, require that I be playing a self-insert, and you suggested. My character may have very little in common with me.
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#66
Posté 01 juillet 2015 - 01:19
Lady Artifice
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I think giving the PC something iconic and recognizable is a good idea. For the Inquisitor, it was the eye and the fashion sense. For Hawke, it was the blood smear. I never had the blood smear because I love customizing appearance too much, but I liked the idea of it.
Shepard's iconic look was cool imo, but my impulse was always to make a custom appearance, just because I want to play with the CC. Ideally, I would have wanted elements of the classic appearance to be available to customize. Just being able to change default Femshep's coloring in ME3 would have been amazing.
I think the technology has easily advanced far enough that they could have a default appearance that we could tweak, like we were able to do with Hawke in DAI. That would be my ideal.
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#67
Posté 01 juillet 2015 - 01:28
sH0tgUn jUliA
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My Inquisitor looked like Daenerys Targarean. I tried as Cersei but she got tired of mining after the first few times.
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#68
Posté 01 juillet 2015 - 01:30
Vespervin
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I'm perfectly fine with a masked protagonist for marketing and promotional purposes. Show both male and female in some epic N7 (or whatever) armour and we're good to go, IMO.
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#69
Posté 01 juillet 2015 - 01:35
sjsharp2011
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I have a rule: If a game has a character creation tool, I will make my own PC. It's way more fun for me to play with a character that's mine wen I'm roleplaying. And it makes replaying the game way more interesting, since I will be able to make a completely different char. But I don't mind at all an "Iconic" face, since this games are about choice and some people like them, let them have them.
I tend to for the most part as well. The only exception being my first playthrough of ME as I didn't really know the game well at the time so went with the default Shepard
#70
Posté 01 juillet 2015 - 02:04
KaiserShep
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Really? Honestly, the first thing I think of when I think of Sheploo is this:
I will say, while I'm not really big on the whole Sheploo thing, it'd be lying if I said he wasn't at least valuable for the funny expressions.
Plus, there's something about the more detailed face that makes this more amusing.
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#71
Posté 01 juillet 2015 - 02:47
Andrew Lucas
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Yes, someone like the default Shepard, male or female, must come back, they're the flagship of the series and are recognized as badasses on the gaming community, unlike Dragon Age.
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#72
Posté 01 juillet 2015 - 03:02
KaiserShep
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Yes, someone like the default Shepard, male or female, must come back, they're the flagship of the series and are recognized as badasses on the gaming community, unlike Dragon Age.
Heh, tell that to all the people who proclaimed their great love of the Warden, despite this being a mute character with a blank stare whose possible death isn't treated as a simple what-if like ME2 Shepard's is.
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#73
Posté 01 juillet 2015 - 03:02
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Plus, there's something about the more detailed face that makes this more amusing.
LOL really?
Looks like the Lazarus Project had a few hiccups.
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#74
Posté 01 juillet 2015 - 03:42
Rannik
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It's a computer. There is some numerical value which represents literally every aspect of the game. How hard can it be to extract it?
I don't want to do the math but considering DA:I had a lot more sliders with vastly more granular two axis possibilities and even RGB pickers in some of them a face code for the Andromeda character creator would have to be really (REALLY) long, way too long to be shared in the same fashion as the Mass Effect ones (consoles don't have in-game copy and paste afaik).
To put it in perspective, here is the XML of my Inquisitor:
Spoiler
They could make it work though the obligatory Mass Effect Keep Headquarters though, an option to export your characters and import those of other people should be fairly easily to implement unless there's some extremely draconic limitation on Sony's / Microsoft's part.
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#75
Posté 01 juillet 2015 - 04:36
Sylvius the Mad
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Why the hell not? They're little computers; why are they gimped so badly? We used to call this stuff crippleware.(consoles don't have in-game copy and paste afaik)
But as you say, something like the Keep could well be a way to move that number around.
