206 réponses à ce sujet

[Serelir]

How does it work in Tevinter and Nevarra? Yes, we've all heard what a terrible awful immoral place Tevinter is, and yet it continues to function. Circles there are more like universities. Dalish and Avvar have an apprenticeship system.

 

One thing I can't understand is why there isn't any form of exorcism. Why is it always necessary to kill a possessed person? Also, there seem to be plenty of other evil destructive characters who aren't mages, and yet no one's rounding them up and putting them in prisons Circles. Seems like Orlais-Ferelden is in desperate need of a police force, a relatively recent invention in non-fantasy history, though there were plenty of spy networks in the middle ages.

 

The Chantry attempts to function as a trans-national governing body overlying a feudal system. The commingling of religious moralism with oversight of the magically-gifted has resulted in oppression for mages, drug addiction for Templars, and danger to the rest of society from both. Certain groups (I'm looking at you, dwarves) have profited from the arrangement.

[Qun00]

In DA:I, you can never go back to the "old system."

You either get a mage in charge of not only the Circle, but of the Chantry as well, or you get a reformer or you get a dissolver. Change and some sort of revolution takes place in every outcome.

The Circle also had its slight changes over time (not in written down rules, but more in outlook and views) since the Circle was first founded.

The only difference with Vivienne is that she enforces the old system with an iron fist.

[ComedicSociopathy]

Independence from direct Chantry and Templar supervision seems to be want the mage rebellion version of "freedom" really was. The epilogue even shows that instead of just dispersing into the general population they decided to create their own institution where they could gather in relative peace. 

[Vit246]

Here are my ideas inspired by Warhammer Fantasy's Imperial Colleges of Magic:

 

The College of Enchanters would be a self-running boarding school governed by a set of laws called The Articles of Magic. Attendance is mandatory but apprentices will be permitted contact with families and public society. The Harrowing is still around BUT apprentices will be fully educated on what the Harrowing is all about AND they get to choose when they are ready. 

 

They deal with maleficar and abominations the same way the Dalish, Tevinter, and Rivain do. They deal with them.

 

As for a place in society, mages will be permitted to to pursue commercial contracts and treaties with nobles, wealthy merchants, and large organizations, provided that the contracts / treaties do not lead to the breaking of the Articles of Magic. If it does violate, then the mages are within their rights and obligations to withdraw from those treaties, especially if they involved wars and political conflicts. In any case, full mages are not confined to the College and many contracts and treaties require the mages to leave (not permanently) to travel on business and interact with society, joining the courts of nobles and royals, study magic, and doing some work for villages and small towns. 

I imagine mages will also provide healing services. And the enchanters / alchemists can manufacture alchemical products like runes, potions, dyes, soaps, and alcohol for sale.

As for mages not being able to own or inherit land, title and property, I' dunno how to tackle this one.

 

The College would establish new ties with the Divine who acts as an external centralized authority for the College to answer to. The Grand Enchanter might be the personal magical advisor. And the Divine would provide financial endowments and political / legal protection.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

If people's idea of a self-ruled institute of mages means that they are the only ones in charge of it, then it is a bad system -- leaving all the regulation to the same group of people you are trying to regulate simply leaves the door wide open to corruption. That's why it failed to keep corrupt magic in check in Tevinter. There has to be some non-Mage entity within the next Circle (or whatever Leliana is going to call it) with considerable power of their own to ensure that the interests of non-mages are not neglected.

[Vit246]

If people's idea of a self-ruled institute of mages means that they are the only ones in charge of it, then it is a bad system -- leaving all the regulation to the same group of people you are trying to regulate simply leaves the door wide open to corruption. That's why it failed to keep corrupt magic in check in Tevinter. There has to be some non-Mage entity within the next Circle (or whatever Leliana is going to call it) with considerable power of their own to ensure that the interests of non-mages are not neglected.

 

If the non-Mage entity can keep its religious fervor in check and treat the mage institution as a political equal, then they may earn the privilege to be involved in oversight.

[Heimdall]

I think preserving the Templars in some form is crucial (Partly because creating Seekers simply isn't practical en mass, as Cassandra indicates), they represent the only real counterweight for magic.

 

Ideally they should have a garrison in the circles and authority in matters of security and investigations into corruption in the Circle, though in the latter case they should form a joint investigation unit with similarly tasked mages.

 

In more modern terms, I envision Templars forming specialized units among police/guard forces for investigating magic related crimes and corruption.  The Inquisition can serve this role, perhaps, hunting demons and maleficar who have performed unlawful magic.

[Qun00]

But won't the mages still resent the Inquisitor for the conscription?

[Vit246]

But won't the mages still resent the Inquisitor for the conscription?

 

That was my personal rationalization for offering an alliance to the mages. A group of people fighting to escape subjugation only to be subjugated again by another organization, might backfire. I wanted the mages to feel that they were being treated with in good faith.

But on the other hand, the Inquisition was not the Chantry, or the Templar Order, or the Tevinter. So even conscription under the Inquisitor could still entail something different for their future.

[Qun00]

Just one thing, though.

I just checked the wiki and the description for the College of Enchanters and the Bright Hand is different.

"The College, they say will allow mages of the South to gather in peace (...)"

"To many, this new order represents the best of mages, an example for the rest of Thedas to follow."

The keywords are "gather" and "example".

Maybe only the former does take in everyone while the latter is a smaller group that merely sets an example?

[Gervaise]

When I conscripted the mages I seem to recall that the majority of those I spoke to before leaving Redcliffe were begging me to do something about Fiona's deal with the Tevinter.  Yet if you don't come back and rescue them, they don't exactly fight for their freedom from Tevinter/Venatori control.   Most seem to have no objection to the actions of the Inquisition, that is why the elect to stay with it and form the Bright Hand.  

 

A few mages rebelled at Skyhold and you can either stockade them to cool off or let them go (as Leliana suggests) to find out what life is like without our support.   In fact what they do is join up with a group that are trying to replicate Anders' bomb.   So I assumed these were extremists and mages who had the sentiment of the one mage I spoke to who objected to our "help".   

 

I think my Inquisitor summed up the reason for conscripting the mages very well.    They had signed up with an enemy force and were thus prisoners of war, until the hostilities were over.   All things considered, I think I treated them generously for people who had betrayed the people of Ferelden by handing over a major defensive point to an enemy power.    If Alexius had been really working for the main Tevinter ruling body, taking Redcliffe could well have been the prelude to an assault on Ferelden or even Orlais.  Ferelden had never fallen unless Redcliffe was occupied first.  

 

I do feel that no matter who is Divine, conscripted mages result in a better outcome than allied ones. 

[Uccio]

If people's idea of a self-ruled institute of mages means that they are the only ones in charge of it, then it is a bad system -- leaving all the regulation to the same group of people you are trying to regulate simply leaves the door wide open to corruption. That's why it failed to keep corrupt magic in check in Tevinter. There has to be some non-Mage entity within the next Circle (or whatever Leliana is going to call it) with considerable power of their own to ensure that the interests of non-mages are not neglected.

 

There is no "corrupt magic" in Tevinter system, such notion was formed by the southern chantry. Mages are perfectly capable of ruling themselves, mundanes hold no moral high ground there.

[Dabrikishaw]

However the player desires.

[DKJaigen]

If people's idea of a self-ruled institute of mages means that they are the only ones in charge of it, then it is a bad system -- leaving all the regulation to the same group of people you are trying to regulate simply leaves the door wide open to corruption. That's why it failed to keep corrupt magic in check in Tevinter. There has to be some non-Mage entity within the next Circle (or whatever Leliana is going to call it) with considerable power of their own to ensure that the interests of non-mages are not neglected.

 

Mate the differences between the 2 mage groups are greatly different. It would be just as asinine as saying that because one group of templars started huffing red lyrium all red templars will start huffing red lyrium. And the problem with non mage organisation is that they will not be able to detect magical corruption. Because they lack the knowledge to do so. The templars for the most part can only  fix the symptons and not the cause of the disease.

[esper]

And the mundane rulers of ´Thedas is not corrupt?

 

We have let's assasinat everyone -antiva, the game of Orlais, Howe got powers quite easily under Loghain - no checks in place to stop him, and we have no idea what went on with the failed coup Cassandra's parent was part of in Neverra.

 

We have Meridith taking power over Kirkwall quite easily.

 

And we have no idea what the wardens are doing in Andersfeld, but it doesn't sound nice (and it hasn't sounded nice since da:O)

 

 

All rulers of Thedas have no checks which works, so corrupt people have a field day. 

 

It is not uniqe to Nothernen Thedas and Tevinter.

[thats1evildude]

One thing I can't understand is why there isn't any form of exorcism. Why is it always necessary to kill a possessed person?

 

There is. You can travel into the Fade to slay the demon possessing the mage. The problem is that it only works if the mage consented to the possession — if they were forcibly possessed, the mage is essentially dead — and it's very difficult to pull off, especially when you have an abomination running around wreaking havoc.

 

"Congratulations! We were able to save John from the demon!"

 

"Yes, and while we were in the Fade, it only murdered two dozen people. That's a new record for us!"

[The Baconer]

We're talking about magical corruption. Of course everyone can be corrupt.

 

Magical corruption is fueling your spells off of helpless victims and slaves and setting a system wide government that allows it.

 

That's not even cool in a "Haha, look at me I'm so edgy and evil" sort of way. It's just f*cked up and doesn't help the Mage cause at all.

 

Tevinter definitely needs a good purging by way of second Transfiguration.

[esper]

And how is magical corruption worse than say... "Let's burn down and alienage, because they might find out I have slept wiht an elf".

 

The problem with Tevinter is not caused by magic - or even blood magic (though blood magic helps), it is caused by have a slave system, which dehumanized a group of people making them easy to kill and not care if you robs them of basic free will.

 

All the rulers of Thedas can go mustache twirling and kills in hundres - and they do. I still fail to see how the current magisters of Tevinter are worse than say Orlais.

 

If you want to be really cynical about it at least magic fuel serves a purpose, whereas burning down alieanages is just plain murder. I don't like either, but if I had to choose one...