Yeah and all those above examples proved to be danger on national or even world scale.
Oh i don't have to imagine what would be broken circle if mages had access to that forbidden knowledge ,in fact it was in first place reason why circle was overrun by abomnations.
I'm curious i wish to know your opinion about how would be the best system to handle mages
There is always going to be blood mages around no matter how strict or lax the Circles are, and that's because there is no cure for stupidity and/or personal ambition.
Yes, just without circles there will be more and they will be free to act as well unleash their horrors on folks.
I'm curious i wish to know your opinion about how would be the best system to handle mages
Total extermination (not quite as few would be spared for practical purposes but under proper watch) with proper tactic, harsh but most effective if you want to protect world from mages.
But if we were talking about not killing ,put them into real prisons (ofc properly prepared for mages) not hotels for mages like it was currently and lock them in the cell for rest of their lives.
Of course both would require proper tactics for an example ,right preparation of templars because being soft while dealing with mage is just unacceptable (Thrask) .
An excerpt from my earlier post:
"The Avvar: The Mages of the Avvar are called Shamans and like the Dalish Keepers are spiritual guides to their people. The traditions of the Shamans and Avvar predate the Circle of Magi and the Chantry. Due to the cultural importance of Mages, Templars are not welcome by the Avvar. The Avvar even train Mages by allowing them to be possessed by a Spirit. They have methods and contingencies in place should said Spirits are reluctant to leave.
Rivain: Rivain does indeed have a Circle Tower but unlike any other. It serves mostly as an appeasement to the Chantry as the people of Rivain are not Andrastian nor are they truly Qunari, though some are. The Dalish even have a settlement there. The Mages of Rivain have no restrictions on their freedom, they travel freely and remain with their families. As a matriarchal society and similar to the Avvar, Rivain was lead by Seers, female Mages that allowed themselves to become possessed to help lead their people.
When the Chantry discovered this the Templars invoked the Right of Annulment in 9:40 Dragon and slaughtered the Mages in the capital city of Dairsmuid despite the fact that the Mages were in fact co-existing peacefully. Context: The Templars didn't kill all of those scary Blood Mages in that Tower over there. They marched into a town and killed husbands, wives, sons, daughters and spiritual leaders. The political fallout and consequences for the Chantry and Templar's actions are thus far unknown but I cannot see the nation of Rivain just letting this one slide.
The Grey Wardens: The Mages of the Grey Wardens are treated just as any other Warden. They have no more personal restrictions nor are they barred from attaining any rank such as Warden Commander or First Warden. Warden Mages have no restrictions on their use of Magic and can use whatever means they wish to kill Darkspawn including Blood Magic and Demon Summoning. The Joining itself, the process that creates Grey Wardens, is a Blood Magic Ritual."
I also forgot to add the Chasind. They, like the Dalish and Rivaini, have free Mages as leaders and have existed since before the Chantry and Circles.
The Mages of the Circle are NOT more prepared than the Dalish or any other Mages. As Solas stated, Dalish Magic is more practical. The same can be said of Rivain and Avvar Magic as they have developed methods that prevent Abominations and can separate a Spirit from its host, willing or otherwise. Something that Mages of the Circle have incorrectly said is impossible.
Circle Mages are only taught Magics sanctioned the Chantry deem "safe" and "useful", restricting all else and in the process hobbling true education and Magical progress. Imagine how different the Broken Circle incident in the Ferelden Tower would have been had the Mages had access to real practical knowledge the Chantry deems "evil". The Chantry's restrictive approach to education is akin to abstinence only education: It doesn't work, it's dangerous and detrimental.
Tevinter is not the only nation where Mages are given absolute freedom. Mages in Rivain are free and act as spiritual leaders. Mages were also free in the Dales before their destruction. And above you will see various other cultures that have free Mages.
Yes, just without circles there will be more and they will be free to act as well unleash their horrors on folks.
But if we were talking about not killing ,put them into real prisons (ofc properly prepared for mages) not hotels for mages like it was currently and lock them in the cell for rest of their lives.
Of course both would require proper tactics for an example ,right preparation of templars because being soft while dealing with mage is just unacceptable (Thrask) .
each major disaster in Thedas history was always started by a mageAt the time of Arlathan everyone were mages but i believe that they were watched constantly by their elven gods,Elgar'nan use to punish the elves who abused of their power,but in the Dragon age there are no gods,or such authority
Pretty much ,even if you look at games pretty much majority of problems we have to deal with were caused by mages.
As for elven "gods" from what i heard they weren't nicest folks in first place and arlathan was not so far from tevinter.
Going back to the original topic, and because I didn't see it mentioned, I think mages, when freed from the Circle, if deemed let's say 'more susceptible/likely to go become an abomination' should still undergo the phylactery ritual. It's a useful tool for tracking mages down, though I'm not entirely sure how template are able to use it, especially since its viewed as an acceptable form of blood magic, I don't recall mages being mentioned in hunting down runaways.
Someone mentioned the usage of sanctioned blood mages (I'd quote but im on my phone and it sucks, sorry!), and if they were used to 'smell out demons', like how Merril did in DA2 with Kieran, they could also compare blood samples (and smells), to an 'untainted' sample of blood. There could be annual check-ups for those mages by sanctioned blood sanctioned for mages who are deemed a possible risk, or to mages who fear of being possessed.... Or something like that?
Phylacteries could also be kept by say, the local guard or the equivalent for criminal mage-offenders in society when mages have more equivalent. Sorta like those tracking devices, but would still allow the mage his or her freedom, but gives a means to those concerned to make sure that if anything happens, they will be equipped to locate them.
Phylacteries also enables people to abuse those who's blood has been taken. Templars use it to hound mages and can terrorize them into compliance as the Circle has done for countless centuries and maleficarum can use it to cast spells on them remotely. Pretty sure a phylactery in the hands of a evil blood mage is a recipe for horror and chaos. Why do people insist that the sensible thing is to sell these innocent mage souls to the devil? Blood magic has three purposes: to corrupt, exploit, or destroy. I don't know why people, both muggles or mages alike, are so adamant to cling to blood magic which has for years been described as evil and trying to find loophole applications to make it more acceptable for culture. It's not an appropriate police measure in my opinion unless your aim is to destroy, corrupt, or exploit.
I still like the idea of spirits playing a more active role in teaching and policing mages. They are "honest" and devouted to virtues and they don't exploit poeople like blood magic does. It's the most pragmatic and ethical magic but people snub it because they view it as archaic. Blood magic is abusive, I say the mage community and the muggle community has to unanimously renounce it.
For the practice of spirit possession in society, practitioners are assumably more educated about it and the effects. For both Rivaini and the Avaar, it isn't something that the random mage typically does, but more of a tradition, passed down from one generation to the next through tutelage and guidance, and one assumes that they learn how to take advice/form relations or something of the like so they aren't unprepared and will know what to expect.
I am curious about the role of spellbinders (spirit binders?) though as it's relatively new to DA...
Pretty sure Rivaini and Avaar can teach their ways to anyone. But if such spirit healers or augurs are rare then they should be sanctioned to lead to the College of Magi instead of those who cannot since their skills could be integral to providing order and stability with in the mage community. Rivain seers and the Rivain nobility had a amicable relationship until the templars started war.
Yeah and all those above examples proved to be danger on national or even world scale.
Oh i don't have to imagine what would be broken circle if mages had access to that forbidden knowledge ,in fact it was in first place reason why circle was overrun by abomnations.
I assume you have specific examples on how the free Rivani or Chasind Mages have been a threat to anyone let alone the world? "Forbidden" Magic is only forbidden because the Chantry, a religious organization, says so and uses terror and force to dictate what is "good" and "bad". There is no more method to their madness than any other real world religion that uses the words of a god they can't prove exists to control people along with their hypocritical practices.
When Abominations began killing everyone in the Ferelden Tower the Mages did not know how to stop them. The common and INCORRECT notion is that the only way to stop an Abomination is to kill it as there is no way to separate a Spirit from it's host. The Mages of Rivain and the Avvar KNOW how to protect Mages from Demons and KNOW how to banish hostile Spirits from their hosts. If the Mages in the Ferelden Tower had this "forbidden" knowledge then HUNDREDS of lives, Templars and Mage alike, would have been saved.
The Chantry claims that the goal of the Circle Tower is to protect mages from themselves and that if they leave they will inevitably become blood mages or abominations but yet they IGNORE and write off ACTUAL methods to prevent this as "evil" and "forbidden". There seems to be an erroneous notion on this thread that the Chantry is an unerring authority on Magic. The Chantry is no more an authority on Magic than the Catholic Church is an authority on sex and self control.
The circles possess many books and resources and are more organized and advanced than the primitive mages of the barbarians tribes,or the dalish,they know a lot even about blood magic,and yes only with new knowledge new magics can be created and studied,practical magic is not useful if you wish to advance.Freedom doesn't equate to organization which is what mages need, organization not meaningless freedom.
The Mages of the Circle have many books and resources on CHANTRY APPROVED Magics. You would not consider any real world library or similar well of information "organized" or "advanced" if they were restricted to only specific information and ignored everything else of relevance, so why the Circle? Circle Mages DO NOT know a lot about Blood Magic. Being a Blood Mage and in many cases even being SUSPECTED of having such knowledge is punishable by death or Tranquility in Chantry dominated societies.
The "primitive" Mages you speak of have developed methods to exorcize Spirits from their hosts, something the "advanced" Mages of the Circle conventionally believe is impossible. Solas, a powerful Mage and alleged god in his own right, states that Dalish Magic is more practical than Magic taught in the Circle because knowledge is not restricted. One would hardly call wandering clans organized and even Solas, who is very critical of the Dalish, thinks of their Magic as superior to the Circle's.
As we know, Magic takes various forms, and the Chantry only allows the average Mage under its heel to practice four approved schools. Anything outside that pretty little box is not allowed and so Cirlce Mages are limited in their capacity to develop new schools and spells unlike the Dalish who developed the powerful Keeper Magics in the aftermath of the Dales destruction or Shapeshifting.
each major disaster in Thedas history was always started by a mageAt the time of Arlathan everyone were mages but i believe that they were watched constantly by their elven gods,Elgar'nan use to punish the elves who abused of their power,but in the Dragon age there are no gods,or such authority
That is absolutely untrue. The civil wars in Ferelden and Orlais were not started by Mages. The destruction of the Dales, twice over, by the Chantry was not started by Mages. The Qunari Wars were not started by Mages and by all accounts Mages were the greatest advantage of the combined nations in their struggle against the Qunari.
It's all speculation at this point, but what do you guys believe is the difference between the College of Enchanters and the Bright Hand?
Well the College is supposed to be autonomous and separate from the Inquisition and every other relevant organization. And the Bright Hand sounds like the mages remain as members of the Inquisition while forming their Inquisitorial branch of mages. Or least they maintain very close ties in the Inquisition.
I imagine the Bright Hand would be similar to the Circles except it's the Inquisition who has some control over it rather than the Chantry.
I assume you have specific examples on how the free Rivani or Chasind Mages have been a threat to anyone let alone the world? "Forbidden" Magic is only forbidden because the Chantry, a religious organization, says so and uses terror and force to dictate what is "good" and "bad". There is no more method to their madness than any other real world religion that uses the words of a god they can't prove exists to control people along with their hypocritical practices.
When Abominations began killing everyone in the Ferelden Tower the Mages did not know how to stop them. The common and INCORRECT notion is that the only way to stop an Abomination is to kill it as there is no way to separate a Spirit from it's host. The Mages of Rivain and the Avvar KNOW how to protect Mages from Demons and KNOW how to banish hostile Spirits from their hosts. If the Mages in the Ferelden Tower had this "forbidden" knowledge then HUNDREDS of lives, Templars and Mage alike, would have been saved.
The Chantry claims that the goal of the Circle Tower is to protect mages from themselves and that if they leave they will inevitably become blood mages or abominations but yet they IGNORE and write off ACTUAL methods to prevent this as "evil" and "forbidden". There seems to be an erroneous notion on this thread that the Chantry is an unerring authority on Magic. The Chantry is no more an authority on Magic than the Catholic Church is an authority on sex and self control.
Aside from creating abomnations nests?And it is forbidden magic because it is dangerous or not possible keep under control (same thing) not because chantry did that for kicks.This is pro-mage propaganda on your side nothing more real reason why mages are locked up is to ensure humankind and society safety not religious reasons.
Yes, because avvars did very good job with haakon oh wait they didn't ,thanks avvars for another world threat.Oh, i didn't saw rivians protecting from becoming an abomnation i pretty saw them creating an abomnations and thus endangering society and even world.So yes, im sure circle would be safe against abomnations if they have become an abomnations.
Yes chantry did horrible crime by ignoring great method protecting of society from threat that abomnation pose by hey creating an abomnations.
Aside from creating abomnations nests?And it is forbidden magic because it is dangerous or not possible keep under control (same thing) not because chantry did that for kicks.This is pro-mage propaganda on your side nothing more real reason why mages are locked up is to ensure humankind and society safety not religious reasons.
Yes, because avvars did very good job with haakon oh wait they didn't ,thanks avvars for another world threat.Oh, i didn't saw rivians protecting from becoming an abomnation i pretty saw them creating an abomnations and thus endangering society and even world.So yes, im sure circle would be safe against abomnations if they have become an abomnations.
Yes chantry did horrible crime by ignoring great method protecting of society from threat that abomnation pose by hey creating an abomnations.
It is only "forbidden" because the Chantry says it is so. I will remind you that this "dangerous Magic that cannot be controlled" has been practices for thousands of years BEFORE the Chantry or Templars existed and the Avvar and other Free Mages are doing just fine without them. You cannot ignore that fact. Contrary to what the Chantry would have everyone believe, the Magic practiced by the Avvar Mages and Rivaini Seers are beneficial to their respective communities.
As revealed in the Jaws of Hakkon, the Avvar's relationship with Spirits that is nurtured via their Mages makes them all safer from Demons and Abominations than any Circle Tower. The Spirits provide wisdom, aid in combating threats and the training of their Mages. Not only do the Spirits keep Demons away, they help look out for Mages that are vulnerable to possession. Also, both the Avvar Mages and Rivaini Seers have developed methods to remove obstinate Spirits from their host making their communities safer for Mages and mundanes both.
Have you been paying attention? The Chantry is a religious institution. The Chant of Light, the document by which the Chantry and Templars justify the forced confinement of an entire population is unquestionably and without any doubt Religious scripture. "Magic exists to serve man, and never to rule over him." (Canticle of Transfigurations) is religious scripture, not a statement based on empirical evidence and research but based on the teachings of a Woman that people thought was the bride of their God of which no proof exists. Sound familiar?
Not unlike real-world religions, the Chant of Light has been altered over time, is open to interpretation and has been used to instigate and justify atrocities as well as suppress those whom the believers fear, I.E. Mages and Elves.
It is only "forbidden" because the Chantry says it is so. I will remind you that this "dangerous Magic that cannot be controlled" has been practices for thousands of years BEFORE the Chantry or Templars existed and the Avvar and other Free Mages are doing just fine without them. You cannot ignore that fact. Contrary to what the Chantry would have everyone believe, the Magic practiced by the Avvar Mages and Rivaini Seers are beneficial to their respective communities.
As revealed in the Jaws of Hakkon, the Avvar's relationship with Spirits that is nurtured via their Mages makes them all safer from Demons and Abominations than any Circle Tower. The Spirits provide wisdom, aid in combating threats and the training of their Mages. Not only do the Spirits keep Demons away, they help look out for Mages that are vulnerable to possession. Also, both the Avvar Mages and Rivaini Seers have developed methods to remove obstinate Spirits from their host making their communities safer for Mages and mundanes both.
Have you been paying attention? The Chantry is a religious institution. The Chant of Light, the document by which the Chantry and Templars justify the forced confinement of an entire population is unquestionably and without any doubt Religious scripture. "Magic exists to serve man, and never to rule over him." (Canticle of Transfigurations) is religious scripture, not a statement based on empirical evidence and research but based on the teachings of a Woman that people thought was the bride of their God of which no proof exists. Sound familiar?
Not unlike real-world religions, the Chant of Light has been altered over time, is open to interpretation and has been used to instigate and justify atrocities as well as suppress those whom the believers fear, I.E. Mages and Elves.
Facepalm... Yes and murder is forbidden because governments says so, and? Yes again they did great with hakkon , oh and when magisters brought blights ,or when they tried brainwash entire humanity 
. Well you are ignoring facts and repeat same mantra that free mages are safe,what is false as i proved.No it isn't, again making abomnations won't prevent problem of abomnations.
Of course again i will bring hakkon as perfect example of avars doing good with summoning spirits and demon ,it worked well.
I bet there are nice amount of disasters like in rivan they dismiss , we already have been shown one and that was massive as i have pointed.
So? Again circles has nothing to do with religion (save for that they teach religion there) and exist to ensure safety same for pretty most of its policies , they were put there to prevent disasters they cause what pretty much is fact ,not some religious fiction.
Not rly just another dose of pro-mage propaganda in first place chant says magic is curse as well gift (of course it is pretty much mostly curse) and again in first place chant has nothing to do with most circles policies that exist only for pragmatic reasons not religious. In first place circles gave mages much more than they were required to give them ,pretty much shows they didn't have abusing mages in mind when they were creating circles...
Facepalm... Yes and murder is forbidden because governments says so, and? Yes again they did great with hakkon , oh and when magisters brought blights ,or when they tried brainwash entire humanity
Of course again i will bring hakkon as perfect example of avars doing good with summoning spirits and demon ,it worked well.
I bet there are nice amount of disasters like in rivan they dismiss , we already have been shown one and that was massive as i have pointed.
So? Again circles has nothing to do with religion (save for that they teach religion there) and exist to ensure safety same for pretty most of its policies , they were put there to prevent disasters they cause what pretty much is fact ,not some religious fiction.
Not rly just another dose of pro-mage propaganda in first place chant says magic is curse as well gift (of course it is pretty much mostly curse) and again in first place chant has nothing to do with most circles policies that exist only for pragmatic reasons not religious. In first place circles gave mages much more than they were required to give them ,pretty much shows they didn't have abusing mages in mind when they were creating circles...
I have again provided you with specific examples and facts to back up my arguments. You can ignore them as is your right but I suspect that you are fully aware that you are demonstrably wrong. That or I suggest that you revisit the codex to re-familiarize yourself with Thedas lore.
I have again provided you with specific examples and facts to back up my arguments. You can ignore them as is your right but I suspect that you are fully aware that you are demonstrably wrong. That or I suggest that you revisit the codex to re-familiarize yourself with Thedas lore.
Not rly, i proved you being wrong by providing example where i proved they were threat to the world ,which of course you have deliberately ignored twice, what is telling.
Avoding facts that you were spreading ourtight pro-mage propaganda about religion being reason behind circle policies ,when pretty much we were given reasoning for many policies in circles and they were purely pragmatic not religious.
I really doubt funding is gonna be an issue.
As for funding and a place in society, mages should pursue commercial contracts and treaties with kings, nobles, merchants, and large organizations. Enchanters can provide healing services and manufacture alchemical products like runes, medicines, potions, dyes, soaps, and alcohol for sale. The Divine should probably act as the external authority that the College and Grand Enchanter answers to. And provide financial endowments and political protection in exchange for loyalty.
Aside from creating abomnations nests?And it is forbidden magic because it is dangerous or not possible keep under control (same thing) not because chantry did that for kicks.This is pro-mage propaganda on your side nothing more real reason why mages are locked up is to ensure humankind and society safety not religious reasons.
How can you claim it is dangerous or impossible to control when you don't know the extend or limitations of this type of magic? Ignorance is always dangerous and their is not a single group in Thedas as ignorant as the circle mages and the chantry. Everything is dangerous if you have no knowledge of it, even a car can be dangerous if somebody doesn't have a driving license .
Actually, Circle mages have access to the most extensive bodies of magical knowledge outside of Tevinter. It may fall short of the knowledge of an apostate trained from birth by an elven god, and it may be scant on knowledge of blood magic by design, but they aren't ignorant. If Finn is any indication some circle mages have a better grasp of elven lore than some Dalish clans.How can you claim it is dangerous or impossible to control when you don't know the extend or limitations of this type of magic? Ignorance is always dangerous and their is not a single group in Thedas as ignorant as the circle mages and the chantry. Everything is dangerous if you have no knowledge of it, even a car can be dangerous if somebody doesn't have a driving license .
I really doubt funding is gonna be an issue.
As for funding and a place in society, mages should pursue commercial contracts and treaties with kings, nobles, merchants, and large organizations. Enchanters can provide healing services and manufacture alchemical products like runes, medicines, potions, dyes, soaps, and alcohol for sale. The Divine should probably act as the external authority that the College and Grand Enchanter answers to. And provide financial endowments and political protection in exchange for loyalty.
Well, I'd assume that such work would be the primary source of income for a time (Except for dyes soaps and alcohols? Mages are responsible for those? What?) The implication was that as other schools began to compete for the the same work, they would seek out an alternative, more consistent source of income. Kings and nobles may not always require the services of mages, but there will always be wealthy families with mage children that need an education.
I also would think that the mages would be reluctant to entrust their security to the organization which they have just recently been granted independence from. Such an agreement seems rather implausible unless crafted from necessity.
I'm just saying I see no reason why mages cannot use their powers and skills and alchemy to manufacture the mundane stuff for extra revenue. And does there have to be competing mage schools?
Well it depends on the new Divine and the necessity might be that the new College needs the patronage of a influential organization if only to assuage the fears of the mundane peoples.
The mundane stuff requires purchasing raw materials and competing with mundane competing guilds, not to mention splitting their resources from the products and services they have a near monopoly in.I'm just saying I see no reason why mages cannot use their powers and skills and alchemy to manufacture the mundane stuff for extra revenue. And does there have to be competing mage schools?
I'm just saying I see no reason why mages cannot use their powers and skills and alchemy to manufacture the mundane stuff for extra revenue. And does there have to be competing mage schools?
Well it depends on the new Divine and the necessity might be that the new College needs the patronage of a influential organization if only to assuage the fears of the mundane peoples.
Retour en haut