75 réponses à ce sujet

[FluffyCannibal]

It would be nice to throw in a few more of the traditional RPG elements; it's always kinda bugged me that the Juggy is the only true tank, for example. 

But as for support classes, what if we still only have 3 powers next time? It's either not going to be much of a support class, or isn't going to be very popular - i.e. I know from MMORPG experience that healers are rarely in large supply.

However, with a couple of passive debuffs and 1-2 support powers (maybe with a lil' bit of DPS in them but not much) I think it would be a good idea.

[Quarian Master Race]

Heh - nah, those 2 kits are far too mobile and aggressive to be support classes - they're more Assault IMO:

 

 

 

 

A support class in ME would be a drunk Krogan sat in a bath of Ryncol with a mortar between his legs laughing maniacally every time he "fires his load" O_o

 

 

.... you'd have to cure the genophage in SP though, else the shells would all be duds.

 Should be able to use the mortar tube, some duct tape and broken ryncol bottle to construct a melee weapon as well.

[TheNightSlasher]

The way the game is designed, it's near impossible to have a 'support' class.

 

All characters have access to six in-game consumables. Classes with already high weapon damage (infiltrators and some soldiers) have debuffs - not one or two, several of them do (HI, DI, SI, GI, AIU, QMI among others.). There is not much room for support characters to dominate.

 

BW tried a little bit with powers like shield boost, juggernaut's squad command and debuff focused engineer, demolisher with supply pylon etc. but it doesn't work. One way a truly support system could work is if characters actually need to depend on others e.g., don't give infiltrators debuff powers, high DPS characters shouldn't be able to carry as many ops packs/gels as others. What if an infiltrator couldn't carry max ops/gels and had to rely on others? What if damage cloak doesn't actually make you invisible and merely give you damage boost and temporary DR?

 

I'm just randomly blurting out stuff - these may not work. What I'm trying to say is that the game's design prevents 'support' characters to shine. If BW wants to have support characters like medic, ammo supplier, etc., they must actually make the game a lot more co-op in nature.

[RealKobeBean]

Support class? Easy...


Flamer
Snap Freeze
Cain Mines


All in one awesome kit!

[Swan Killer]

A medic class would be nice, but in MEA, it'd be cool if we could see our teammates' health and shields status on a small indicator on the screen, so we'd be able to see, if somebody is in trouble or about to go down from a delicious Banshee ball.

[Chealec]

The way the game is designed, it's near impossible to have a 'support' class.

 

 

...

 

 

That's largely true with ME3:MP ... MEA:MP could be a whole different kettle of fish.

 

If the maps are large enough you could have a whole crap-tonne more options, a recon drone that provides a tactical overview of a larger area than you can see? Indirect fire from drone laser targeting?

 

Far more enemies at once (since last-gen consoles aren't being targeted) requiring a need for dedicated CC kits? Make those kits weak against bosses.

 

Certain areas of the map that are only accessible once doors have been hacked by engineer-type classes?

 

Maps that are in a vacuum or toxic atmosphere where if you're shot without shields/barriers you leak health until they're repaired; medic type classes that can patch you up when that happens or rapidly repair/buff shields.

 

Theoretically BioWare could try just about anything.

[Batarian Master Race]

Tac Scan, Supply Pylon, Shield Boost?

 

Allows you to buff friends, debuff enemies, and resupply ammo and grenades. That sounds fairly supporty.

[Caineghis2500]

A volus

[SirDieAL0t]

- cryo blast

- proximity mine

- tac scan

vanilla passive

 

[Darth Volus]

A volus

 

Volus Engie is an incarnation of death, that can support if needed. 

[NuclearTech76]

Volus Engie is an incarnation of death, that can support if needed. 

Adept ain't bad either.

[Darth Volus]

Adept ain't bad either.

 

He's not as a good a debuffer. Stasis is cool, but not that useful vs Armor. 

[Chealec]

He's not as a good a debuffer. Stasis is cool, but not that useful vs Armor. 

 

True - but slap a CSMG on him with Incendiary rounds and he's a right little murderball!

[Darth Volus]

True - but slap a CSMG on him with Incendiary rounds and he's a right little murderball!

 

 

I use a Lancer on him with Disruptor rounds most of the time. Moar techbursts with Proxy mine 

[Kushiel42]

The ability to revive at a distance would be handy, but likely too situational to really be more useful than just killing stuff.

 

That's sort of the problem with trying to make a support kit for the game as it currently stands - since the only thing that you do is kill stuff, it makes the most sense to simply make kits that kill stuff. If the game was more objective-oriented, support kits would make a lot more sense.

[Chealec]

 

I use a Lancer on him with Disruptor rounds most of the time. Moar techbursts with Proxy mine 

 

I was referring to the Adept

 

Debuffing fire-exploding goodness from the Orbs + CSMG + Incendiary rounds.

 

 

I actually use the Falcon + Disruptor rounds on the Engineer... Recon Mine > Falcon to stagger everything within the mine detonation area to make sure it stays put (and prime with Disruptor rounds) > detonate Recon mine! Mix in a PM as well if you feel like it.

[Darth Volus]

I was referring to the Adept

 

Debuffing fire-exploding goodness from the Orbs + CSMG + Incendiary rounds.

 

 

I actually use the Falcon + Disruptor rounds on the Engineer... Recon Mine > Falcon to stagger everything within the mine detonation area to make sure it stays put (and prime with Disruptor rounds) > detonate Recon mine! Mix in a PM as well if you feel like it.

 

Why not Warp rounds then for massive weapons damage? 

[Chealec]

Why not Warp rounds then for massive weapons damage? 

 

Hi, my name is Chealec and I have a problem....

 

 

 

*pledge to Firexplosions-a-holics anonymous.

[Darth Volus]

Hi, my name is Chealec and I have a problem....

 

 

 

*pledge to Firexplosions-a-holics anonymous.

 

Hiiiii Chealec! 

[Indoctornated]

what-would-a-support-class-look-like  

 

Acolyte shield spamming Volus?

 

"Kssk. Did I just lock you weapons again? Kssk. It's ok, I've brought Acolyte. Kssk. Stand behind me. And here, let me shield Boost you again. Kssk."

[The NightMan Cometh]

My Volus Adept says screw support, instead he tells his team to try to keep up with him. Wasn't there a really stupid thread someone made about having a computer controlled human that follows your character around only to be used to revive them when they died?  That sounds very --supportive 2me.

[Dunmer of Redoran]

The way the game is designed, it's near impossible to have a 'support' class.

 

All characters have access to six in-game consumables. Classes with already high weapon damage (infiltrators and some soldiers) have debuffs - not one or two, several of them do (HI, DI, SI, GI, AIU, QMI among others.). There is not much room for support characters to dominate.

 

BW tried a little bit with powers like shield boost, juggernaut's squad command and debuff focused engineer, demolisher with supply pylon etc. but it doesn't work. One way a truly support system could work is if characters actually need to depend on others e.g., don't give infiltrators debuff powers, high DPS characters shouldn't be able to carry as many ops packs/gels as others. What if an infiltrator couldn't carry max ops/gels and had to rely on others? What if damage cloak doesn't actually make you invisible and merely give you damage boost and temporary DR?

 

I'm just randomly blurting out stuff - these may not work. What I'm trying to say is that the game's design prevents 'support' characters to shine. If BW wants to have support characters like medic, ammo supplier, etc., they must actually make the game a lot more co-op in nature.

 

I would've loved this. More disparity between classes would've worked wonders for the gameplay. Having RPG characters with flexible, all-in-one builds is necessary for singleplayer RPGs (Can you imagine playing something like KOTOR as a pure healer? There's a lot of points where it just wouldn't work, since you have to fight alone sometimes). But in a co-op game with four players, increasing class-specific strengths and weaknesses would require teamwork and the use of complementary kits to maximize effectiveness. The class strengths/weaknesses don't need to be so great as to make it functionally impossible for even the best player to do a platinum solo with any character, but should make it difficult for a team of decent players with no synergy to run roughshod over all enemies on platinum.

[Red Panda]

Volus Engie is an incarnation of death, that can support if needed. 

Volus Merc is way more pro.

[Quarian Master Race]

I would've loved this. More disparity between classes would've worked wonders for the gameplay. Having RPG characters with flexible, all-in-one builds is necessary for singleplayer RPGs (Can you imagine playing something like KOTOR as a pure healer? There's a lot of points where it just wouldn't work, since you have to fight alone sometimes). But in a co-op game with four players, increasing class-specific strengths and weaknesses would require teamwork and the use of complementary kits to maximize effectiveness. The class strengths/weaknesses don't need to be so great as to make it functionally impossible for even the best player to do a platinum solo with any character, but should make it difficult for a team of decent players with no synergy to run roughshod over all enemies on platinum.

Well I can't speak for most RPG's because I'm mostly from shooter background, but even on the hardest difficulty I blugeoned my way through both KOTORs with a soldier pretty easily. Albiet, I did usually bring Mission or T3 along for techy stuff, but otherwise I picked companions based on dialouge/ personality (lots of HK, Canderous and Jolee) and had crap synergy. DAO seemed better in that regard, though that's probably mostly because I'm derp at builds, don't have the patience to optimize equipment bonuses, and ended up having UP wardens with Morrigan or Shale doing most of the actual work.

I think people are just going to tend toward maximizing DPS at top levels of play no matter how you try to build it in a game like this that is so reliant on shooter mechanics, and where combo attacks can be generated so easily by oneself. Of course, eliminating powers that actively encourage lone wolfing at the expense of your teammates (Tac cloak's aggro dump, healing powers that use grenades) is probably a good place to start.

[Dunmer of Redoran]

Well I can't speak for most RPG's because I'm mostly from shooter background, but even on the hardest difficulty I blugeoned my way through both KOTORs with a soldier pretty easily. Albiet, I did usually bring Mission or T3 along for techy stuff, but otherwise I picked companions based on dialouge/ personality (lots of HK, Canderous and Jolee) and had crap synergy.

I think people are just going to tend toward maximizing DPS at top levels of play no matter how you try to build it in a game like this that is so reliant on shooter mechanics, and where combo attacks can be generated so easily by oneself. Of course, eliminating powers that actively encourage lone wolfing at the expense of your teammates (Tac cloak's aggro dump, healing powers that use grenades) is probably a good place to start.

 

That's why I mentioned a healer in KOTOR. If you pick anything designed for straight-up fighting, you can manage quite easily. Most builds won't have a particularly difficult time. But if all your force powers are things like Heal, Suppression, Valor, etc. and you put your feats into things like Empathy and Conditioning, in the certain segments where you have to fight alone, it's going to be very difficult compared to other character setups since both your health and DPS won't be very impressive.

 

Tac cloak definitely needed some rebalancing. It does too many things--reduces player agro, dumps agro on teammates, reduces cooldowns, and increases weapon and power damage. I was always a big advocate for increasing the duration and lowering the cooldown of tactical cloak, as well as letting it work with all objectives but nerfing the damage boost--making it a power that helps to flank enemies and makes objectives easier to do.