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Acoylte Hate - Pls do NOT include this weapon in ME:A!


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#1
BloodBeforeTears

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Dear Bioware, please do NOT include the Acolyte in ME:A (or any other weapon that weighs nothing and deals 500% damage to two of the three defense types at range)

 

Claim:  Equipping this weapon on any kit, either as a primary or secondary weapon, renders the kit optimal.

 

In other words, taking the Acolyte will almost always help a kit more than any other weapon taken in its place.

 

To prove this, we consider two general build cases - Powers-Centric and Weapons-Centric

 

Case 1 - Powers-Centric.  Define a powers-centric build as one that deals the majority of its damage using powers.  In this case, our argument hinges on the assumption that powers are most effective when used against unshielded targets primed with an appropriate effect (fire/cryo/tech).  

 

Based on this assumption, it logically follows that the problem of optimizing a powers-centric build reduces to the problem of shield stripping/priming - And with the Acolyte dealing upwards of 3500 damage to shields/barriers, potentially to multiple targets, along with near 100% priming probability, there is no better weapon for performing this task.  BTW, did I mention that it weighs close to nothing, is effective at any range and its projectiles even bounce off walls and behind cover?

 

Interestingly, this weapon even seems to offer optimal synergy with classes whose primary strengths are shield-stripping powers!  Consider the Quarian Male Engineer for example.  Arc Grenades inherently deal 200% multiplicative damage against shields/barriers, and can be evolved for an additional 75% multiplicative damage against shields (350% total).  But unfortunately, these grenades still do less damage to barriers & shields than a single Acolyte shot, and hence are better used after the Acolyte shot in order to trigger explosions.  As strange as it seems, even with the QME, I tend to do my best when carrying an Acolyte.

 

Case 2 - Weapons-Centric.  Define a weapons-centric build as one that deals the majority of its damage using weapons.  Although more difficult to prove, there is still an argument to made that weapon-centric builds are usually better with an Acolyte.  The insight here is based on another claim, that optimal weapons builds are centered around a single weapon.  The rationale for this claim deals with the limitation of only being able to equip a single weapon consumable (e.g. Assault Rifle Rail Amp).  Based on this claim, the problem of optimizing a weapons-centric build reduces to the problem of selecting the optimal secondary weapon.  And because armored targets are clearly the most labor-some enemies, it seems a reasonable  assumption that an optimal weapons build use a primary weapon that is effective against armor.  Hence, the optimal secondary weapon need not be effective against armor, as this would provide unnecessary redundancy.  Choosing the Acolyte not only will provide higher DPS to shields/barriers than any other secondary weapon (and the primary weapon in most cases), but also is effective at any range (which the primary weapon may not be), and can reliably stagger certain enemies.  So again, it seems like choosing the Acolyte is optimal, even for weapons-centric builds.

 

The Acolyte, the ****ing Acolyte... it should banned... if I see another "class-specific" solo using this weapon, I think I'm going to puke.  It is pathetic and depressing, and unfortunately, some classes are just so bad that using this god-forsaken thing is the only way to make them viable on platinum.  As a result, the vast majority of recorded platinum solos make use of this ridiculous weapon to some extent.

 

Recommendation to Bioware:  PLEASE be more careful in deciding to assign multiplicative damage bonuses to weapons.  When a weapon is made as universally optimal against the majority of defenses as the Acolyte, the in game diversity really suffers, as optimal play actually depends upon using it.  I'm not opposed to defense specific weapons, but their utility should be limited such that there exists no one optimal weapon for all build types.  For instance, maybe one weapon does 300% damage to barriers, but not shields, and only at close range, whereas another mid-range weapon does 200% damage to shields and is heavier.

 

I welcome all thoughts and discussion of BSN and Bioware.  Now that I have this forum account, I might as well use it.  First order of business: getting rid of this $#!+ weapon from a game that I have come to love.


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#2
FNX Finest

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:lol:



#3
PHOEN1XK1NG

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Working as Intended™


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#4
justinman114

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Acolyte rules.


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#5
Dunmer of Redoran

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The Acolyte is pretty broken, yeah. Weightless gun that shreds shields and synergizes with everything and your dog? So. Boring.


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#6
PHOEN1XK1NG

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If they do bring it back, it had better be a charge up weapon.  It was absolute garbage when the stupid delay was put in instead of a charge up for a short period of time.  Nice waste of money  BioWer...



#7
Jeremiah12LGeek

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Can't hear you over my Acolyte wrecking things.


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#8
TheNightSlasher

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Acolyte doesn't make a kit nearly as optimal as an arc pistol, wraith or talon does. 

 

Acolyte is not nearly as broken as those three.


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#9
Indoctornated

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Read the whole things (was rocking out to Commander Shepard song for the 10th million time today while reading this), and can't love the OP post enough.

 

And welcome to the forums. I'm going to like you.


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#10
BloodBeforeTears

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Or make it class specific - I can't believe that I have to admit that my Krogan Soldier is more effective with this PoS than the Graal.  There is no way this thing should even fit into a Krogan hand!


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#11
Learn To Love Yourself

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The Acolyte is pretty broken, yeah. Weightless gun that shreds shields and synergizes with everything and your dog? So. Boring.

Don't forget that it staggers.  If it didn't stagger, then it'd be a slightly different story.  It trivializes Phantoms, which only Krogan fists should be allowed to do.  


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#12
Dunmer of Redoran

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Acolyte doesn't make a kit nearly as optimal as an arc pistol, wraith or talon does. 

 

Acolyte is not nearly as broken as those three.

 

This assumes that the theoretical player has a good aim, which most players do not.


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#13
Cyonan

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I hope they actually break Barriers and Shields back up into their own true unique defense types. Too many things in ME3 that are good against one are automatically good against the other, except a few biotic abilities.

 

Then you could have an Acolyte that breaks barriers or something, but not shields.


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#14
Indoctornated

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Acolyte doesn't make a kit nearly as optimal as an arc pistol, wraith or talon does. 

 

Acolyte is not nearly as broken as those three.

 

You're forgetting the AOE dmg and stagger (and the radius get's larger if you bounce it first. Why it's optimal to bounce it off the floor toward a group of enemies).

 

So for the same reason folks consider the Venom broken, ditto for Acolyte too. As anything stagger alone breaks the game way too much. But then add the crazy shield stripping abilities and just wow.

 

Also, shields/barrier is the only thing that heavily slows down piercing weapon dmg in this game. Once shields are down, primary weapons or biotics melts armour. As Acolyte melts shields/barriers.


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#15
Jugger nuggss

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#16
capn233

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Yes, the Acolyte was not a good idea.

 

I hope they go back to making kinetic barriers all the same thing, like they are supposed to be.


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#17
Cyonan

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Yes, the Acolyte was not a good idea.

 

I hope they go back to making kinetic barriers all the same thing, like they are supposed to be.

 

Acolyte, Reegar Carbine, Harrier, and the last 2 Hurricane buffs were all not good ideas =P


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#18
TheNightSlasher

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This assumes that the theoretical player has a good aim, which most players do not.

A gun being broken has nothing to do with player-base IMO. 

 

I am not the biggest acolyte fan but there are atleast 10 guns I'd remove/modify before even touching the acolyte. Acolyte deals with mooks very well but it is garbage against armor. Acolyte doesn't optimize every kit. Most kits that are efficient with acolyte have extremely good armor chewing powers.

 

If we take player base into consideration, GI is not even close to being the most OP kit. But that's not how it works. Atleast, I don't think so.


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#19
BloodBeforeTears

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Acolyte doesn't make a kit nearly as optimal as an arc pistol, wraith or talon does. 

 

Acolyte is not nearly as broken as those three.

 

Well you can carry a Wraith and an Acolyte, so it doesn't make much sense to compare it to the Wraith since you can carry them both.

 

With regard to the Talon & Arc Pistol: ummm.... the Acolyte X with Heavy Barrel deals 3858.75 damage to both shields and barriers according to Narida.  Talon and Arc Pistol cannot come remotely close to that number.



#20
Cyonan

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A gun being broken has nothing to do with player-base IMO. 

 

I am not the biggest acolyte fan but there are atleast 10 guns I'd remove/modify before even touching the acolyte. 

 

If we take player base into consideration, GI is not even close to being the most OP kit. But that's not how it works. Atleast, I don't think so.

 

I think it has a little bit to do with the player skill. A gun which is hard to use should be a little bit stronger(Key words being little bit =P)

 

Although the Acolyte is not only a lot stronger, but also extremely easy to use.


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#21
PHOEN1XK1NG

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Well you can carry a Wraith and an Acolyte, so it doesn't make much sense to compare it to the Wraith since you can carry them both.

 

With regard to the Talon & Arc Pistol: ummm.... the Acolyte X with Heavy Barrel deals 3858.75 damage to both shields and barriers according to Narida.  Talon and Arc Pistol cannot come remotely close to that number.

Um... so what do the Talon and Arc Pistol care about your pity little shields.

 

 

 

Headshotsbitchez!!!


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#22
Terminator Force

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A gun being broken has nothing to do with player-base IMO. 

 

I am not the biggest acolyte fan but there are atleast 10 guns I'd remove/modify before even touching the acolyte. 

 

If we take player base into consideration, GI is not even close to being the most OP kit. But that's not how it works. Atleast, I don't think so.

 

A valid opinion, but I'd start with the Acolyte myself.

 

 

Well you can carry a Wraith and an Acolyte, so it doesn't make much sense to compare it to the Wraith since you can carry them both.

 

With regard to the Talon & Arc Pistol: ummm.... the Acolyte X with Heavy Barrel deals 3858.75 damage to both shields and barriers according to Narida.  Talon and Arc Pistol cannot come remotely close to that number.

 

Nice to see you posting now. And you're a good poster too. On-topic and with science and everything. Plus look how you encouraged everyone else to post too.

 

Also the Talon loses at range VS Acolyte too.


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#23
TheNightSlasher

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I think it has a little bit to do with the player skill. A gun which is hard to use should be a little bit stronger(Key words being little bit =P)

 

Although the Acolyte is not only a lot stronger, but also extremely easy to use.

I agree that gun which is hard to use should be a little bit stronger. But that fails with so many guns. It's not a good idea to single out acolyte. That's my point. 

 

Wraith is easier to use than a precision weapon like Saber, which requires good aim. But wraith is superior in damage. My point is there are so many places where the ease vs. damage argument fails - singling out acolyte doesn't make much sense to me.

 

With regard to the Talon & Arc Pistol: ummm.... the Acolyte X with Heavy Barrel deals 3858.75 damage to both shields and barriers according to Narida.  Talon and Arc Pistol cannot come remotely close to that number.

Most of the times, it is possible to kill an enemy with arc, talon and wraith in the time it takes acolyte to strip shields of the said enemy. And when it comes to armor, acolyte can't even dream of taking down things as fast as those three.


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#24
BloodBeforeTears

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Um... so what do the Talon and Arc Pistol care about your pity little shields.

 

 

 

Headshotsbitchez!!!

 

True.  And to those with an affinity for executing headshots - Krogan headbutt to ya.  I love nothing more than watching or performing an act of uncanny skill, such as popping multiple phantom heads off in succession.  But unfortunately, I purchased ME3 for the console (mistake), and as such, headshots are a bit harder to come by.  As a result, plat lobbies rarely include Talon or Arc Pistol users, but are rather saturated by users of the ****ing Acolyte, of all things.


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#25
TheNightSlasher

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As a result, plat lobbies rarely include Talon or Arc Pistol users, but are rather saturated by users of the ****ing Acolyte, of all things.

I rarely pug platinum but whenever I see acolyte being used, people use it as a secondary weapon mainly to deal with phantoms or they use it on flamer kits (or kits with powers that are super powerful vs. armor). 

 

If it were me, I'd blame the power and enemy design - not the acolyte.