390 réponses à ce sujet

[PHOEN1XK1NG]

True.  And to those with an affinity for executing headshots - Krogan headbutt to ya.  I love nothing more than watching or performing an act of uncanny skill, such as popping multiple phantom heads off in succession.  But unfortunately, I purchased ME3 for the console (mistake), and as such, headshots are a bit harder to come by.  As a result, plat lobbies rarely include Talon or Arc Pistol users, but are rather saturated by users of the ****ing Acolyte, of all things.

I play Xbox plat.

 

 

 

 

 

Well...  I did... until I retired.

 

 

 

I am starting to feel the itch to play again.  That could be just something I caught from smekies mom though.  Slight burning sensation...

[BloodBeforeTears]

I agree that gun which is hard to use should be a little bit stronger. But that fails with so many guns. It's not a good point to single out acolyte. That's my point. 

 

Wraith is easier to use than a precision weapon like Saber, which requires good aim. But wraith is superior in damage. My point is there are so many places where the ease vs. damage argument fails - singling out acolyte doesn't make much sense to me.

 

Most of the times, it is possible to kill an enemy with arc, talon and wraith in the time it takes acolyte to strip shields of the said enemy. And when it comes to armor, acolyte can't even dream of taking down things as fast as those three.

 

I hear you on this.  And yes, my OP did not consider hybrid builds that rely equally on weapon/power damage to perform well.  In this case a universal pistol such as Arc/Talon/Executioner is going to win over the Acolyte.  My Human Adept (Singularity/Shockwave) build I would consider such a hybrid.  So you have a point.

 

If the Acolyte weighed more, or otherwise had some really inconvenient tradeoff (drains some shields when you shoot it maybe?), my deep hatred for it would likely subside, it just really irks me that you can carry the darn thing "for free".

[Terminator Force]

Even fire rate delay nerf might of been a good idea.

[Dunmer of Redoran]

A gun being broken has nothing to do with player-base IMO. 

 

I am not the biggest acolyte fan but there are atleast 10 guns I'd remove/modify before even touching the acolyte. Acolyte deals with mooks very well but it is garbage against armor. Acolyte doesn't optimize every kit. Most kits that are efficient with acolyte have extremely good armor chewing powers.

 

If we take player base into consideration, GI is not even close to being the most OP kit. But that's not how it works. Atleast, I don't think so.

Almost all I ever do is pug with randoms, so yeah, my criteria are going to be different from yours. I'm basing my criteria on my experiences, and I can say with almost absolute certainty that I've never played with a pug who has the skillset that you do. Different skillsets leads to different tactics, and different tactics will be accompanied by different loadouts. No, shooting the Acolyte at stuff won't be as effective as what you can do with a mightier weapon, but they can make a sizeable contribution while not needing to apply themselves in a significant manner.

 

 

I think it has a little bit to do with the player skill. A gun which is hard to use should be a little bit stronger(Key words being little bit =P)

 

Although the Acolyte is not only a lot stronger, but also extremely easy to use.

Well said. As OP as GI can be, most randoms do not have the skill to use it effectively, especially the Javelin GI. You can slap the Piranha or Talon on it and do major damage, but many of the people I've played with would have trouble doing that.

 

The average person is going to do a **** ton more damage by spamming Cain Mines with a Talon Merc than they are shooting proxy mines and going for headshots with the GI. At the highest echelon of skill, this isn't going to be the case, but that is such a small sector of the player population, even now, that I'd generally consider the Talon Merc more broken than the GI.

 

Likewise, the Acolyte isn't the mightiest gun in the game, but it requires almost no skill to use. Hold down the mouse button, fire near an enemy, profit. And it's a weapon that can stagger lock enemies, is fantastic at applying ammo powers, and trivializes barriers, shields and health. It is true that it isn't great against armor, but unless you're doing a solo, that really isn't a problem since it's almost guaranteed that teammates will have armor-cleaving loadouts.

[BloodBeforeTears]

I play Xbox plat.

 

 

 

 

 

Well...  I did... until I retired.

 

 

 

I am starting to feel the itch to play again.  That could be just something I caught from smekies mom though.  Slight burning sensation...

PSN here, and same story minus the mom thing (lol).  Hadn't played in years then decided to check the lobbies.  Didn't think there was a chance in hell anybody would be in there.  I was actually surprised Bioware was still maintaining the servers, and even more surprised when the first plat pug I entered was full of players that actually cared, with mics and lvl 4 consumables to boot.  Needless to say, it was ****ing amazing.  To this day, my only friends on PSN are random ME3 platinum players.

[TheTechnoTurian]

The Acolyte, the ****ing Acolyte... it should banned... if I see another "class-specific" solo using this weapon, I think I'm going to puke.  It is pathetic and depressing, and unfortunately, some classes are just so bad that using this god-forsaken thing is the only way to make them viable on platinum.  As a result, the vast majority of recorded platinum solos make use of this ridiculous weapon to some extent.

 

Which classes are those? 

[BloodBeforeTears]

Likewise, the Acolyte isn't the mightiest gun in the game

This is where I disagree.  My argument is that, in general case, it actually is.

 

I propose a hypothetical thought experiment as an adversarial game.  

 

The game works as follows:  You propose a build without the acolyte, and I will propose a counter build for the same kit, but with it.

 

After we have exhausted all of the kits, we count the number that are optimized with the acolyte as opposed to without.  I'm betting that if we played such a game, we would have more kits optimized with acolytes then without.  And hence, by sheer number of optimized kits, the acolyte must be the mightiest weapon in the game.

[BloodBeforeTears]

Which classes are those? 

Sorry, I was venting a bit there.  Some kits, like the N7 Fury as an example, are difficult for me to use without the convenience of such a weapon as the Acolyte.  However, I understand your point - all kits are presumably viable with some other weapon.  But perhaps at the cost of optimality (i.e. the kit may be viable with some other weapon, but optimal play requires the acolyte).

[Dunmer of Redoran]

This is where I disagree.  My argument is that, in general case, it actually is.

 

I propose a hypothetical thought experiment as an adversarial game.  

 

Counterproposal: I go play some Oblivion and ragequit when two Clannfears staggerlock me.

[BloodBeforeTears]

Another interesting side effect of the Acolyte is the prevalent use of SMGs (particularly the hurricane) on caster classes to take down armor.  If only Bioware had not given us the Acolyte...

 

Realize that this completely contradicts the original roles of the SMG and heavy pistol weapons classes!  Up until the Acolyte was introduced, SMGs were better at taking down shields, while heavy pistols were better at taking down armor, as it always should have been.  ME1 and ME2 players know this (it was actually given as advice on the in-game loading screens).  

 

But then the Acolyte came along... followed by the Hurricane... and the rest is history.

 

Imagine if there was no Acolyte... what a wonderful ME3MP world we would have... you might think twice about taking that Hurricane w/ HVB because now you need to deal with shields, and you might actually use those hard hitting heavy pistols for what they were designed for.

 

What would you put on your Fury now?  Piranha perahps, Talon maybe?  Whatever you may choose, I'm sure it would have been more entertaining than using the Acolyte.

[Kenny Bania]

tl;dr. Also...

 

QQ

[Pint]

If it were me, I'd blame the power and enemy design - not the acolyte. 

[BloodBeforeTears]

Thanks for the feedback everyone.  The sample of responses seem to indicate that not very many of you share my extreme distaste for this weapon, and that is probably a good thing.  To be honest, I still use this weapon on the majority of my kits when I pug platinum (which is pretty much the all I ever do these days), simply because it yields forgiving versatility to any kit at no cost to the player.

 

I suppose one day I may magically attain the chain headshot ability of Techno and NightSlasher, as I have recently witnessed in their respective video archives.  But until that day comes, you'll probably find me rocking the cursed Acolyte on my Krogan Soldier in a platinum pug - stripping shields, throwing inferno nades, and carnage fire-exploding everything around me.  I wish it wasn't so, but it is optimal - and to play otherwise would be letting my team down.

 

Goodnight BSN.

[Salarian Jesus]

Who cares? Let people use whatever the heck they want. This isn't a competition.

[Swan Killer]

Who cares? Let people use whatever the heck they want. This isn't a competition.

Bullshit. Everyone needs to build their kit around the Vindicator!

[BloodBeforeTears]

Who cares? Let people use whatever the heck they want. This isn't a competition.

Maybe so, but wouldn't it be nice if the optimal weapon to use with a certain class was in fact unique to that class, as opposed to being optimal for the majority of classes?

 

Ultimately, I think that the answer lies in granting hefty class-specific weapon bonuses (either in the form of weight reduction, increased damage, increased RoF, increased recoil compensation, increased reload time, etc) to the different races for their respective weapons.

 

If you think about this, it only makes sense.  There is no way that a Volus should be able to wield the Claymore or the Graal with the same effectiveness as a Krogan.  Nor should a human be able to wield the Phaeston to the same effect as a Turian.  

 

The lack of class-specific bonuses results in the vast majority of players using a only small subset of the weapon base, which is pretty lame, but understandable, since the behavior of competitive human beings converges towards optimality.  And since only a small subset of the weapons yield optimal play, these weapons are used disproportionately.  The Acolyte, IMO, exemplifies this point, but it is not the only culprit.

 

In a perfect ME3MP world, or ME:A MP as I envision it, each racial class would have class-specific weapons at the common, uncommon, rare, and ultra-rare levels that synergize near optimally with some kits in the class.  Asaris should get more mileage out of the Disciple than the Wraith, Turians should do better with the Phaeston than the Harrier, etc, etc.

 

This problem does not have a trivial solution, but I would love to see it addressed in the next game.

[Cyonan]

Bullshit. Everyone needs to build their kit around the Vindicator!

 

I find this perfectly acceptable

 

...as long as it's on my host.

[Catastrophy]

Why do people take so much effort in writing stuff nobody is reading?

[BloodBeforeTears]

Why do people take so much effort in writing stuff nobody is reading?

 

Well, clearly you read some of this thread, since you've decided that some effort was put into it.

[Loufi]

The Acolyte was introduced to fix an injustice : tech powers are effective against both shields and barriers, while biotic powers are effective only against barriers.

 

I, however, sometimes agree with you OP, especially when I equip both the Acolyte and the Hurricane while maintaining a 200% power recharge speed. But then I think about how great the Justiciar and the human adept are with this gun and I'm fine with it. 

 

The Acolyte allows a more agressive gameplay, has made a few biotic powers less useless / better for gold and above, and has probably enabled more people to play platinum. I think that globally its impact on ME3 MP has been positive.

[Catastrophy]

Well, clearly you read some of this thread, since you've decided that some effort was put into it.

Yea, the title.

[BloodBeforeTears]

 

The Acolyte was introduced to fix an injustice : tech powers are effective against both shields and barriers, while biotic powers are effective only against barriers.

 

Biotic powers also get a damage multiplier vs. armor.

 

 

The Acolyte allows a more agressive gameplay, has made a few biotic powers less useless / better for gold and above, and has probably enabled more people to play platinum. I think that globally its impact on ME3 MP has been positive.

 

I agree that it allows a more aggressive solo gameplay, as it allows basically any kit to address all potential enemy defenses without the help of teammates.  And that is basically my main issue with the weapon.  It detracts from the necessity of team synergy.  IMO, each kit should either be particularly proficient in dealing with a one or two types of defenses, or marginally effective against all.  And generally speaking, most kits (minus the infiltrators) in ME3MP are designed with this tradeoff in mind.  The geth trooper was designed only be truly effective against armor.  But give him and Acolyte... and wow, it makes soloing even the hardest difficulty look like a cakewalk.

[Pearl (rip bioware)]

The Acolyte would have been fine if it were an Ultra Rare.

[BloodBeforeTears]

Yea, the title.

 

lol, well the title couldn't have exuded effort since not even the word Acolyte was spelled correctly

[Darth Volus]

Biower made BS enemies like Phantoms, then had to make BS weapons to counter them. Also powers like Pull were and still are crap without Acolyte