390 réponses à ce sujet

[Loufi]

Its a nice sentiment OP but I wouldn't be surprised if bioware brings it back along with other new crutch weapons. From a business and consumer standpoint its important for game developers to give players a few easy mode guns, kits, powers ect... Game development companies especially those that create games with horde mode and/or PvP understand that the larger demographic of consumers are casual players that couldn't care less about working too hard for a kill or to achieve anything.

A casual player's reward and incentive circuits are wired differently than that of dedicated players. Casuals get an adrenaline rush when they get the easiest kills with the least amount of effort. Feeling like a badass is really what everyone wants to feel deep down IMO so developers gives casual players the cheese to get that feeling. That excitement is what will keep casuals playing and logged in to the servers alot longer.

The dedicated players are wired differently. They get excitement from some type of challenge. Mastering a not so easy weapon and/or kit and getting kills with it gives them a rush. They feel a sense of accomplishment and gratification from their hard work and not from cheesing. Why do you think my EASY MODE solo guide video was so popular in the ME3 MP community? Because it was dedicated to the majority of players which were the casuals who just wanted to get that lone wolf banner the easiest way possible so I provided the laziest and easiest way possible.

My point is that cheeses are necessary for game development companies bottom line in the long run so they've got to juggle between pleasing the casual crowd by giving them a couple of OP and easy to use weapons and kits and the dedicated crowd with the rest. Neither side will ever be 100% happy and there will always be complaints with nerfs and buffs but the option to cheese must always remain.

Just my 2cents

I'm glad to read this. People tend to forget that the interest of a business company is to make a game playable by the masses, and not only by the elite. Besides, the most dedicated players remain free to not use the cheese and are happy to find gold and plat PUG lobbies in a few seconds, even if those lobbies are filled out with easy to use characters and weapons.  

[BloodBeforeTears]

happy to find gold and plat PUG lobbies in a few seconds, even if those lobbies are filled out with easy to use characters and weapons.  

 

Absolutely.  I will never dispute this.

[Ashevajak]

I can't remember the last time I used an acolyte on anything except the Human Adept and Justicar.

[Darth Volus]

I can't remember the last time I used an acolyte on anything except the Human Adept and Justicar.

 

I use it only on the MILFsari and only sometimes 

[HamleticTortoise]

The acolyte is a situational weapon, which carries an opportunity cost with it (ie, no arc pistol or talon). It also requires many kits to equip another gun.

It is certainly unbalanced, but not as OP as say Hurricane, Harrier, and especially the Reegar, which all outperform every other weapon in their respective classes. In fact, when I pug, I rarely see acolytes outside of flamer kits and justicars... though admittedly I stick to gold and rarely venture into platinum...

 

As for your Kroldier lore issue, one option for you might be to equip phasics ammo on your shotgun of choice. This will let you strip shields real fast, exposing health and armour to your grenades and fire explosions

 

As for this:

 

Its a nice sentiment OP but I wouldn't be surprised if bioware brings it back along with other new crutch weapons. From a business and consumer standpoint its important for game developers to give players a few easy mode guns, kits, powers ect... Game development companies especially those that create games with horde mode and/or PvP understand that the larger demographic of consumers are casual players that couldn't care less about working too hard for a kill or to achieve anything.

A casual player's reward and incentive circuits are wired differently than that of dedicated players. Casuals get an adrenaline rush when they get the easiest kills with the least amount of effort. Feeling like a badass is really what everyone wants to feel deep down IMO so developers gives casual players the cheese to get that feeling. That excitement is what will keep casuals playing and logged in to the servers alot longer.

The dedicated players are wired differently. They get excitement from some type of challenge. Mastering a not so easy weapon and/or kit and getting kills with it gives them a rush. They feel a sense of accomplishment and gratification from their hard work and not from cheesing. Why do you think my EASY MODE solo guide video was so popular in the ME3 MP community? Because it was dedicated to the majority of players which were the casuals who just wanted to get that lone wolf banner the easiest way possible so I provided the laziest and easiest way possible.

My point is that cheeses are necessary for game development companies bottom line in the long run so they've got to juggle between pleasing the casual crowd by giving them a couple of OP and easy to use weapons and kits and the dedicated crowd with the rest. Neither side will ever be 100% happy and there will always be complaints with nerfs and buffs but the option to cheese must always remain.

Just my 2cents

 

I'd agree with this sentiment a lot more if it wasn't expressed in a way that paints the overwhelming majority of the player base in a demeaning way. I'd be a lot more on board with saying that many of the posters here have reached a level of familiarity with the game, and its mechanics, that they no longer need high-tier weaponry to complete even the most difficult challenges.

 

I certainly needed all the crutches I could lay my hands on when I made the jumps to silver, gold, and, recently, dabbling into solos and challenges. They didn't feel like crutches back then, however, and I certainly do not begrudge them to newish players making their ways into the game... they might abandon them down the line, after all

[Loufi]

I can't remember the last time I used an acolyte on anything except the Human Adept and Justicar.

Quite the same here, the Acolyte is my weapon for the Singularity and Pull kits.

 

The acolyte is a situational weapon, which carries an opportunity cost with it (ie, no arc pistol or talon). It also requires many kits to equip another gun.

It is certainly unbalanced, but not as OP as say Hurricane, Harrier, and especially the Reegar, which all outperform every other weapon in their respective classes. In fact, when I pug, I rarely see acolytes outside of flamer kits and justicars... though admittedly I stick to gold and rarely venture into platinum...

 

As for your Kroldier lore issue, one option for you might be to equip phasics ammo on your shotgun of choice. This will let you strip shields real fast, exposing health and armour to your grenades and fire explosions

 

As for this:

 

 

I'd agree with this sentiment a lot more if it wasn't expressed in a way that paints the overwhelming majority of the player base in a demeaning way. I'd be a lot more on board with saying that many of the posters here have reached a level of familiarity with the game, and its mechanics, that they no longer need high-tier weaponry to complete even the most difficult challenges.

 

I certainly needed all the crutches I could lay my hands on when I made the jumps to silver, gold, and, recently, dabbling into solos and challenges. They didn't feel like crutches back then, however, and I certainly do not begrudge them to newish players making their ways into the game... they might abandon them down the line, after all

I don't perceive what Cain said like this.

[HamleticTortoise]

I don't perceive what Cain said like this.

 

I don't want to turn this into an argument and derail the thread, especially since I mentioned I agree with the principle behind it.

 

However, I find referring to people who might have invested enough hours into this game to consider soloing gold, or even just playing gold for that matter, as "casuals" sounds a bit tough to me. It also causes an interesting overlap in a reader, whereas the just-defined class of "casuals" will inherit some of the properties of the larger, socially accepted "casual gamer" class, associations which are mostly negative in the eyes of most of the readers of this board, I assume. While I understand than Cain never mentions specific difficulties in his post, the thread is talking about higher difficulties, and so his post is bound to be read in this context.

 

Also, claiming that so-called casuals, as have been previously defined, look for the "easiest kill with the least amount of effort" is painting them as lazy. In fact, I could make the same statement about speed-runners and soloers, for whom not wasting time on kills is of the essence. The context in which a sentence is uttered matters however, so now we have casuals who are lazy.

Then there is the argument on different wiring, which is in my opinion more generalizing and splitting the playerbase into an us-vs-them, polarizing view: I fail to see two clearly distinct player bases, but more a continuum of them, and to assume that the brain circuitry of players changes according to where they sit on this spectrum is a bit much for me. Weren't we all using crutch weapons at some point? Didn't our definition of what a challenge is change over time, as we became more and more proficient at this game? What about real life issues intervening with time available? What about videogaming being a marginal interest in some people, who remain "dedicated" in other pursuits? All this complexity is conveniently packed into two categories... though I understand this is done in part for the sake of speedy argumentation.

 

What it boils down to is, you can see the difference between "casuals" and "dedicated" players as a basic, insurmontable, brain-wiring based one... or you can see it as the result of different amounts of time spent in the game. Cain's point about developers having a strong incentive towards including higher tier weapons is well received though, and I fully agree with it!

 

*shrug* the way the post was made just ruffled me a bit, is all

[Loufi]

^No problem, this is not an argument, I'm just trying to avoid misunderstandings.  Personally, when I talk about "casual" gamers, there is absolutely no judgement value behind that. I'm perfectly aware that many players don't have the time / motivation to learn all the mechanics of ME3, because they play videogames only from times to times or other games, just want to quickly relax after their working day, have other real life things to do, etc.

 

So for me the distinction is more between the most "passionnated" players and the other ones, and the frontier is totally porous, a casual player at time t can perfectly become one of the best player at time t+1.

[HamleticTortoise]

^I am glad you see it that way, and I hope everyone else, and Cain in particular will also take it as that. Different strokes and all that after all

[BloodBeforeTears]

 

^No problem, this is not an argument, I'm just trying to avoid misunderstandings. Personally, if I talk about "casual" gamers, there is absolutely no judment value behind that. I'm perfectly aware that many players don't have the time / motivation to learn all the mechanics of ME3, because they play videogames only from times to times or other games, just want to quickly relax after their working day, have other real life things to do, etc.

 

So for me the distinction is more between the most "passionnated" players and the other ones, and the frontier is totally porous, a casual player at time t can perfectly become one of the best player at time t+1.

 

I share the same feelings.  And I am definitely a casual gamer, lol.  But I'm a casual gamer with an Acolyte, so watch out!

[Deerber]

OK. But my argument is that you can put one weapon on nearly any kit and make it optimal.

Once again, that is not the case.

[GruntKitterhand]

I haven't read every page of this discussion but I just want to say that after 2000+ hours I have yet to give a flying chuff about what anyone else does in the game, and am bemused when jimmies are rustled because of it.  That said, the idea of using an Acolyte on a Krogan makes the rage rise within me, but it's usually followed by a smirk and a muttering of the word 'pyjak'.  

 

I adore playing the Justicar with an Acolyte, but she's the only character I do use it on.  Why should I care if others equip it more? Am I supposed to be irritated that my teammates are killing efficiently or trivializing Phantoms in particular? F*ck Phantoms, they deserve it. The Acolyte doesn't blind or cause screen-shake so I'll never understand what the problem is supposed to be. If this is a score-related concern, I can only roll my eyes and point out once again that score is beyond irrelevant in a co-op game.  

 

I'm much more interested in whether there will be a Claymore in MEA than whether there won't be an Acolyte.

[Deerber]

I haven't read every page of this discussion but I just want to say that after 2000+ hours I have yet to give a flying chuff about what anyone else does in the game, and am bemused when jimmies are rustled because of it. That said, the idea of using an Acolyte on a Krogan makes the rage rise within me, but it's usually followed by a smirk and a muttering of the word 'pyjak'.

I adore playing the Justicar with an Acolyte, but she's the only character I do use it on. Why should I care if others equip it more? Am I supposed to be irritated that my teammates are killing efficiently or trivializing Phantoms in particular? F*ck Phantoms, they deserve it. The Acolyte doesn't blind or cause screen-shake so I'll never understand what the problem is supposed to be. If this is a score-related concern, I can only roll my eyes and point out once again that score is beyond irrelevant in a co-op game.

I'm much more interested in whether there will be a Claymore in MEA than whether there won't be an Acolyte.

Spoken like a true Krogan

[Terminator Force]

I haven't read every page of this discussion but I just want to say that after 2000+ hours I have yet to give a flying chuff about what anyone else does in the game, and am bemused when jimmies are rustled because of it.  That said, the idea of using an Acolyte on a Krogan makes the rage rise within me, but it's usually followed by a smirk and a muttering of the word 'pyjak'.  

 

I adore playing the Justicar with an Acolyte, but she's the only character I do use it on.  Why should I care if others equip it more? Am I supposed to be irritated that my teammates are killing efficiently or trivializing Phantoms in particular? F*ck Phantoms, they deserve it. The Acolyte doesn't blind or cause screen-shake so I'll never understand what the problem is supposed to be. If this is a score-related concern, I can only roll my eyes and point out once again that score is beyond irrelevant in a co-op game.  

 

I'm much more interested in whether there will be a Claymore in MEA than whether there won't be an Acolyte.

 

^ Was worried there for a second that you retired.

 

It's also interesting that this is the thread you've decided to post first in. Don't tell me your jimmies rustle too? (That is the joke. Otherwise; Welcome back, GruntKitterhand. You were missed + missed out on much BSN jimmy rustling)

[Caineghis2500]

Oh I didn't mean for my reply to be off putting for some but when I look again at my choice of wording in describing casuals I can see why it was. I can assure that it wasn't intentional

[GruntKitterhand]

^ Was worried there for a second that you retired.

 

It's also interesting that this is the thread you've decided to post first in. Don't tell me your jimmies rustle too? (That is the joke. Otherwise; Welcome back, GruntKitterhand. You were missed + missed out on much BSN jimmy rustling)

 

ME3 MP is like the Hotel California - there is no retirement.  People were slagging off Johnny Cash and causing my jimmies to be genuinely rustled, so I'm on a little hiatus while the sun is shining outside - it's pretty rare where I live.  Your concern is noted though. 

[Kushiel42]

Once again, that is not the case.

 

Yeah, I can't really see how it's optimal for any kits, outside of a few kits that have powers that are significantly better (or only useful) against non-shielded targets. So outside of kits which use Singularity, Flamer, Pull, and maaaaaybe Inferno Grenades - which only a few kits do - it seems to me that there's almost always a better choice if you want to optimize the kit.

[PHOEN1XK1NG]

ME3 MP is like the Hotel California - there is no retirement.  People were slagging off Johnny Cash and causing my jimmies to be genuinely rustled, so I'm on a little hiatus while the sun is shining outside - it's pretty rare where I live.  Your concern is noted though. 

But Johnny Cash was a minimally talented, drug riddled, hillbilly adulterer.  I see no reason why people hold him so high.  He should be looked at as a life lesson for other inspiring artists... don't be a Johnny Cash.  He destroyed any talent, or chance for greatness, he may have had with his chemical imbibing.  He's a failure, not a hero.

 

[ClydeInTheShell]

Oh I didn't mean for my reply to be off putting for some but when I look again at my choice of wording in describing casuals I can see why it was. I can assure that it wasn't intentional

Sure thing Cain. You'd never offend anyone on BSN. 

just messin witcha homie  

[BloodBeforeTears]

I haven't read every page of this discussion but I just want to say that after 2000+ hours I have yet to give a flying chuff about what anyone else does in the game, and am bemused when jimmies are rustled because of it. That said, the idea of using an Acolyte on a Krogan makes the rage rise within me, but it's usually followed by a smirk and a muttering of the word 'pyjak'.

I adore playing the Justicar with an Acolyte, but she's the only character I do use it on. Why should I care if others equip it more? Am I supposed to be irritated that my teammates are killing efficiently or trivializing Phantoms in particular? F*ck Phantoms, they deserve it. The Acolyte doesn't blind or cause screen-shake so I'll never understand what the problem is supposed to be. If this is a score-related concern, I can only roll my eyes and point out once again that score is beyond irrelevant in a co-op game.

I'm much more interested in whether there will be a Claymore in MEA than whether there won't be an Acolyte.

HA. ****ing pyjacks...

So nothing ruffles your jimmies, eh? Well... you're a better Krogan than I.

The only thing I find more annoying than those pyjacks are the ****ing missile glitchers... you know who I'm talking about. And guess what? They were probably using the Acolyte.

[Kushiel42]

But Johnny Cash was a minimally talented, drug riddled, hillbilly adulterer.  I see no reason why people hold him so high.  He should be looked at as a life lesson for other inspiring artists... don't be a Johnny Cash.  He destroyed any talent, or chance for greatness, he may have had with his chemical imbibing.  He's a failure, not a hero.

 

Counterpoint.

[NuclearTech76]

God I love FN.  The FN-57 is probably my favorite pistol of all time (wish we were issued the damn thing as opposed to the crap M9).

 

 

I only use the Piranha on my GI, and the results have been more than acceptable on plat.  Have been considering using the Talon instead, but my Talon is only at III, so I don't think it will be out DPSing it just yet.  The other problem is choice of mods.  If I go Talon with Hvy Barrel + AP mod, I only get 4 shots, if go with the Ext Mag + Hvy Barrel, i have to take AP or Drill rounds.  If I take the Ext Mag + AP mod, I'm no longer out DPSing my Piranha w/ Choke + HVB.  And this is not to mention that I would really like to take a power mod!

 

So I basically just say **** it, and rock the Acolyte with Hvy Barrel + Power mods.  Then I can bring whatever weapon I damn well please and still succeed rather easily on plat.

 

Bioware, please get rid of the Acolyte!  I am addicted to it worse than crack, and any time I don't bring it I go through withdrawals!!!

 

 

Yes, IMO it is a jack of all trades and master of none, unless using it on the GI w/ hvy barrel + ext mag and AP rounds.

On a GI why would you want to take anything other than AP IV? You're going to OSK most everything with one headshot other than mid tier and boss enemies and they aren't going to take that many shots either. 

[GruntKitterhand]

But Johnny Cash was a minimally talented, drug riddled, hillbilly adulterer.  I see no reason why people hold him so high.  He should be looked at as a life lesson for other inspiring artists... don't be a Johnny Cash.  He destroyed any talent, or chance for greatness, he may have had with his chemical imbibing.  He's a failure, not a hero.

 

 

I had to like your post as I'd never seen the gif before and it gave me a good laugh, though I suspect you've misinterpreted its motivational potential. I view it as aspirational, not cautionary.  Johnny Cash died of a broken heart, not drug abuse, and was still producing high quality work up till the very end.  It's also worth noting that most of his actual health-damaging drug abuse was down to doctors misdiagnosing his illness.

 

Our definitions of success, failure and talent may be some distance apart, as no doubt would our views on imbibing chemicals. Johnny was no Kanye West, Taylor Swift, Pharell Williams, Lady GaGa, Bruno Mars, Rhianna, Jay-Z, Beyonce, Sam Smith, Katy Perry or any other of the modern talentless 'superstars' - I'll give you that. I'll also concede, in a very similar vein in-keeping with the tone of your post, that he was truly no Elvis Presley, who was all the things you say and more - racist, obese and psychotically paranoid, to go along with his inability to write songs.  Still more influential than Carly Rae Jepson though.

 

I guess some people just don't have the intellect or depth of character to try to appreciate art fully, or the pursuit of enlightenment, and would rather sing Mmm-Bop on their way to church. And if you haven't clicked on Kushiel42's link, you're missing the true wisdom that comes from dressing head-to-toe in black.  Send in MC Hammer on your way out...... 

[Ashevajak]

You did not just say Lady Gaga is talentless.  Take that back!

[PHOEN1XK1NG]

1.  I had to like your post as I'd never seen the gif before and it gave me a good laugh, though I suspect you've misinterpreted its motivational potential. I view it as aspirational, not cautionary.  Johnny Cash died of a broken heart, not drug abuse, and was still producing high quality work up till the very end.  It's also worth noting that most of his actual health-damaging drug abuse was down to doctors misdiagnosing his illness.

 

2.  Our definitions of success, failure and talent may be some distance apart, as no doubt would our views on imbibing chemicals. Johnny was no Kanye West, Taylor Swift, Pharell Williams, Lady GaGa, Bruno Mars, Rhianna, Jay-Z, Beyonce, Sam Smith, Katy Perry or any other of the modern talentless 'superstars' - I'll give you that. I'll also concede, in a very similar vein in-keeping with the tone of your post, that he was truly no Elvis Presley, who was all the things you say and more - racist, obese and psychotically paranoid, to go along with his inability to write songs.  Still more influential than Carly Rae Jepson though.

 

3.  I guess some people just don't have the intellect or depth of character to try to appreciate art fully, or the pursuit of enlightenment, and would rather sing Mmm-Bop on their way to church. And if you haven't clicked on Kushiel42's link, you're missing the true wisdom that comes from dressing head-to-toe in black.  Send in MC Hammer on your way out...... 

1. My post was only to rustle jimmies and leave an awesome pic.  Mission Accomplished!

 

Johnny Cash died because he was old and treated his body like an amusement park.  He was old.  Old people die from being old.  Death from a broken heart is the same as death from falling off a unicorn.

 

2.  I have no interest in majority of the talentless ass clowns you mentioned.  They're the reason the music industry is failing.  Them, and the fact people like to steal music.  I like free music.  Oh, and Elvis died from fried food and a broken fart.  He also shouldn't be characterized as a hero.  Many older artists rave about the genius that is Bruno Mars.  I don't see it.  I think they're starting to slip.  Lady Gaga has an unbelievably beautiful voice when she's not flaunting her "business".  Seriously.  She's classically trained, and a treat to hear.  But sex sells.  Even her nasty sex look.  I don't fault her for getting paid, but I won't listen to her radio garbage.

 

3.  No one should take advice and/or gain wisdom from a "shock comedian", or really any other individual in show business.

 

No one can appreciate a piece of art fully, except the artist himself/herself/heshe.

 

Ah!  Pursuit of Enlightenment!  Just stop.  You can never achieve true enlightenment, or get anywhere close.  Right when you feel an understanding of the world/life, something happens and you need to scrap everything and start anew.  It's almost as big of a waste of time as philosophy or religion.

 

 

If people enjoy listening to Hanson or MC Hammer... good for them.  Enjoy the things that make you happy.  Just don't idolize them, or think everyone should appreciate what you love.  One man's junk is another man's treasure... right?  Except Johnny Cash.  Junk is still junk.  Lol!

 

 

 

 

With all that said, you can go ahead and scrap my views.  I don't really listen to much music, or watch much tv  anymore.  I like audio books, historical podcasts, and NPR.  My "cool factor" is nonexistent now days.  My kids are gonna hate me when they get older, but that's ok.  I'm a parent, not a friend.

 

 

 

At least I'm not a hipster.  They should kill themselves before it becomes mainstream.  Lol!