83 réponses à ce sujet

[Gwydden]

The main difference between romance and other "human factor" triggers, is that with romance a lot of resources are spent horizontally, and many people will only ever bother to just play through one romance, maybe two. (a reality of us being sexual creatures with particular preferences, and the fact that many people use the PC as an extension of themselves)

Take for example Deus EX: Human Revolution. It was a great game, with quite a few "human factor" triggers - that didn't have any real romance.
Instead resources were invested in creating a very impressive world, responsive gameplay, and a story full of suspense and intrigue.

You seem to be under the misconception romance is some kind of huge drain on resources.

It isn't. It takes away only a small percentage of the word and cinematic budgets. If romance was removed as a feature, that's where the money would go. Not gameplay, the world or likely not even the main story. It would probably mean just more non-romance content for companions. Not a lot more, mind you, since romance is just a handful of lines of dialogue and a couple of cutscenes.

Also, the percentage romance takes from the budget has been about the same in recent games. DAI is simply a larger game overall. If you want to blame the short main story on something, blame it on the ridiculous amount of huge territories full with nothing but fetch quests.

[Panda]

Another reason to lock all this insanity away in a sim game.

 

What would be talk about in the forums then?

[FNX Finest]

Just from browsing this forum it appears that romance content is the most popular aspect of a BW game. Would they be better off just ditching combat, class builds, renegade/paragon and go with a dating sim/interactive movie?

 

This post being fact and the MP being absolute garbage is why I will never again buy or play a DA game.  Little to no care was given to the gameplay in DAI at all, but the SJW got their cake.

 

I'm not talking out of my butt...I'm serious.  Never again.  I keep my word.  When the DA4 hype train starts you won't see me on it just like the game itself. Quote me on that.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Pay no attention to those romance-obsessed malcontents, the most important feature is the multiplayer.

 

Ignore this person.  Romantic Multiplayer is gaming's next big thing.

[Metalfros]

Pay no attention to those romance-obsessed malcontents, the most important feature is the multiplayer.

meh

[The Elder King]

What would be talk about in the forums then?

Cerberus, mage-templar debate, dalish/elven debate, MP-SP debate, Andromeda-MW...
BSN is never empty of fun discussions to read .

[Medhia_Nox]

I think saying:  "Romances are not the story." as if "Pew Pew Bad Guy = Win" (the other half of the story) is so compelling is not the way to solve what may, or may not, be lacking in Bioware's more recent titles.

 

I would argue that they simply don't provoke much thought because they never take a stance on anything in their stories.  The very vagueness of their mythology hurts them quite often I believe.  

 

With DA - they have several very interesting concepts:  Mages, Elves, Casteless (examples) - but two of them they're trying to undo before the series can even remotely be considered "old".  Mages being the X-men is far more interesting than mages just being DA's superheroes/villains running amok doing what they please. The elven oppression is far more interesting than elven liberation.

 

And then there's the introduction of High Fantasy elements... the dragon of DA (at the Temple of Sacred Ashes) was a mysterious, dangerous creature who commanded attention... in DA:I we're just dragon hunters.  Demons were mysterious and rarer (though not rare enough) in DA:O... in DA:I they're raining from the sky.  And this is never more evident than Flemeth herself... DA:O she's a mysterious, unassuming witch until she turns into a dragon and dies... DA:2... she's a superheroine in costume.

 

The "gritty" element isn't lost because of the themes of DA:I - they're lost because the elements that make DA... DA, I believe, were supremely watered down so much that they just became common. 

[Panda]

Cerberus, mage-templar debate, dalish/elven debate, MP-SP debate, Andromeda-MW...
BSN is never empty of fun discussions to read .

 

Mage-templar seems to be as if not more heated than romance discussion

I'm not sure what is ME forum equivalent to mage-templar though. Maybe Geth-Quarian? I got some taste of that myself ^^;

[Laughing_Man]

You seem to be under the misconception romance is some kind of huge drain on resources.

It isn't. It takes away only a small percentage of the word and cinematic budgets. If romance was removed as a feature, that's where the money would go. Not gameplay, the world or likely not even the main story. It would probably mean just more non-romance content for companions. Not a lot more, mind you, since romance is just a handful of lines of dialogue and a couple of cutscenes.

Also, the percentage romance takes from the budget has been about the same in recent games. DAI is simply a larger game overall. If you want to blame the short main story on something, blame it on the ridiculous amount of huge territories full with nothing but fetch quests.

 

I do remember the devs talking in a video about how relatively complex it was to create the Iron Bull romance arc due to the need to create believable cutscenes for different races.

 

Considering that DA:I team didn't have many people on the technical side of animation etc., every romance arc you create is a drain on resources.

(hell, aside from romance cutscenes, DA:I was relatively light on cutscenes.)

 

 

I think saying:  "Romances are not the story." as if "Pew Pew Bad Guy = Win" (the other half of the story) is so compelling is not the way to solve what may, or may not, be lacking in Bioware's more recent titles.

 

Have you played Deus EX: Human revolution? Isn't it a good example for an excellent story that did not contain any meaningful amount of romance?

The "pew pew" belittlement also doesn't work on this example, because as I mentioned, the story is fascinating and full of suspense and intrigue.

(At least to my opinion.)

 

In any case, ignoring your opinions on elves and mages, I agree with the rest. DA could have used a little more... mystique.

[LordSwagley]

Honestly romance in these games are a relatively minor feature than will take up maybe half-an-hour of your playthrough. Maybe more depending on the length/presence of "romantic" side/fetch quests like in DA:I (Looking at you Cassandra, and your darn flowers, candles, and poetry  ) and the bulk of the game is sci-fi shootouts, chatting with your crew, and exploration.

"Romance" are not a game-seller for me but neither do I mind them. Most of them are well-written, funny, sweet, and act as icing atop my Mass Effect/Dragon Age cake .

[Abelas Forever!]

The main difference between romance and other "human factor" triggers, is that with romance a lot of resources are spent horizontally, and many people will only ever bother to just play through one romance, maybe two. (a reality of us being sexual creatures with particular preferences, and the fact that many people use the PC as an extension of themselves)

 

Take for example Deus EX: Human Revolution. It was a great game, with quite a few "human factor" triggers - that didn't have any real romance.

Instead resources were invested in creating a very impressive world, responsive gameplay, and a story full of suspense and intrigue.

Deus EX: Human Revolution didn't have different races, you couldn't choose your gender and you couldn't customize the PC. The gameplay worked well but if you chose to sneak and enhance your PC by improving your sneaking skills then you got in trouble in boss fights because they were mandatory.

 

Deus Ex: Human Revolution was a good game but it was completely different than ME and DA series and I think that is a good thing. It's good that there are different games. Romances are there for people who like to play them. There aren't that many games which have them so I don't really see any reason why they should be removed. I think they are part of DA and ME series like different classes and customization of your PC.

[Gwydden]

I do remember the devs talking in a video about how relatively complex it was to create the Iron Bull romance arc due to the need to create believable cutscenes for different races.

 

Considering that DA:I team didn't have many people on the technical side of animation etc., every romance arc you create is a drain on resources.

(hell, aside from romance cutscenes, DA:I was relatively light on cutscenes.)

Everything you create is a drain on resources. But you seem to be suggesting removing romances would immediately cause a huge improvement elsewhere, when it probably would just mean more non-romance content with companions. The merits of which can be easily argued, but it would hardly constitute a big step.

 

Again, if you wanted more resources for DAI's story you just have to eliminate one or two of those regions that did absolutely nothing for it, like the Emerald Graves and Emprise du Lion. And most of the Hinterlands and the Western Approach, really.

 

Have you played Deus EX: Human revolution? Isn't it a good example for an excellent story that did not contain any meaningful amount of romance?

The "pew pew" belittlement also doesn't work on this example, because as I mentioned, the story is fascinating and full of suspense and intrigue.

(At least to my opinion.)

 

In any case, ignoring your opinions on elves and mages, I agree with the rest. DA could have used a little more... mystique.

Romance is not a prerequisite for a good story, I agree. Not having romance isn't either.

 

Romance is not to blame for Bioware's shortcomings when it comes to storytelling. It's just a convenient scapegoat. 

[Zjarcal]

Serious reply, they SHOULD make a game like that, but you know, as a separate thing from the main game.

 

There's definitely a market for it.

 

Now tissues could have double purpose.

[Pearl (rip bioware)]

Multiplayer dating sim! With all those classes and races! Until last wave!
Oh my

N7 Fury would reign supreme.

[Gwydden]

Serious reply, they SHOULD make a game like that, but you know, as a separate thing from the main game.

 

There's definitely a market for it.

 

Now tissues could have double purpose.

 

Not a big fan of the feature myself. But I have seen this 'I don't like the story, therefore it must be romances!' attitude entirely too much.

[The Elder King]

Mage-templar seems to be as if not more heated than romance discussion
I'm not sure what is ME forum equivalent to mage-templar though. Maybe Geth-Quarian? I got some taste of that myself ^^;

Well, it's either that, or Cerberus.

[Larry-3]

Pay no attention to the doubtfuls. Only a few games add a romance sub-plot, and BioWare shines in it. But yet some people say romance is a waste, and how multiplayer is the best thing. I know I have stated it before, but I would rather have more story than multiplayer matches.

[SnakeCode]

People will make fun of this thread but were such a game to be made it would sell a LOT of copies. The BSN would likely make upa sizable chunk of the player base too. It would be very popular with many who frequent these boards.

[Spectr61]

This post being fact and the MP being absolute garbage is why I will never again buy or play a DA game.  Little to no care was given to the gameplay in DAI at all, but the SJW got their cake.
 
I'm not talking out of my butt...I'm serious.  Never again.  I keep my word.  When the DA4 hype train starts you won't see me on it just like the game itself. Quote me on that.

Exactly.

DAI is a mess on PC.

Designed and optimized for consoles. Ported to PC seeming as an afterthought, creating the movement/combat/curser mess that is DAI on PC.

Devs, do not do this for MEA.

[Lady Artifice]

Just from browsing this forum it appears that romance content is the most popular aspect of a BW game. Would they be better off just ditching combat, class builds, renegade/paragon and go with a dating sim/interactive movie?

 

No. Absolutely not, no. The reason the romance is talked about more than combat is because it's more character driven, interlaced with head canon, and can be used as a way to make a play through feel more personalized. 

 

It does not mean that most of us who talk about it want to get rid of the rest of the game. That would be ridiculous. 

[Sanunes]

I do remember the devs talking in a video about how relatively complex it was to create the Iron Bull romance arc due to the need to create believable cutscenes for different races.

 

Have you played Deus EX: Human revolution? Isn't it a good example for an excellent story that did not contain any meaningful amount of romance?

The "pew pew" belittlement also doesn't work on this example, because as I mentioned, the story is fascinating and full of suspense and intrigue.

(At least to my opinion.)

 

In any case, ignoring your opinions on elves and mages, I agree with the rest. DA could have used a little more... mystique.

 

To me its comparing apples and oranges, Deus Ex was also missing other things that I consider important to a BioWare game such as a party to adventure with you which must take a lot of time and resources as well, should we drop all of the party members so the game can save those resources as well?

 

I enjoyed Human Revolution and even the Tomb Raider reboot which seem to have more in common with each other then a BioWare game.

Modifié par Sanunes, 04 juillet 2015 - 03:02 .

[karushna5]

To me its comparing apples and oranges, Deus Ex was also missing other things that I consider important to a BioWare game such as a party to adventure with you which must take a lot of time and resources as well, should we drop all of the party members so the game can save those resources as well?

 

I enjoyed Human Revolution and even the Tomb Raider reboot which seem to have more in common with each other then a BioWare game.

 

Yes, I will play a Bioware game without romance or a less than stellar plot, but take away character customation and companions, and it isn't a Bioware game, and i wouldn't buy it. Bioware is unique with how you can define your relationships with companions (I mean more in a friend/enemy sense) and romance is something that affects that niche.

 

Getting to know them and fighting as a team is part of a Bioware experience since the beginning. 

[In Exile]

Have you played Deus EX: Human revolution? Isn't it a good example for an excellent story that did not contain any meaningful amount of romance?

The "pew pew" belittlement also doesn't work on this example, because as I mentioned, the story is fascinating and full of suspense and intrigue.

(At least to my opinion.)

 

In any case, ignoring your opinions on elves and mages, I agree with the rest. DA could have used a little more... mystique.

 

Did we play the same game? Because DX:HR had romance as a huge part of the plot: Jensen/Megan was a long-running arc. 

[KaiserShep]

Did we play the same game? Because DX:HR had romance as a huge part of the plot: Jensen/Megan was a long-running arc. 

Yeah I was sort of thinking "She wasn't his sister, right?" 

[Abelas Forever!]

Did we play the same game? Because DX:HR had romance as a huge part of the plot: Jensen/Megan was a long-running arc. 

I was thinking that too but  Megan was his ex-girlfriend and there wasn't anything romantic between them in a game if I remember correctly. But I think their relationship had a big role in the game nevertheles.