153 réponses à ce sujet

[Cirvante]

Cirvante you are definitely wrong, I just slashed my way through some Red Templar Shadows and Horrors and I totally regenerated health while using Dragon Rage. Couldn't get it to work but once on the dragon though so I'm going to test this again a bit then edit.

 

 

Cirvante the fact that you presume everyone needs to know every bit of info about a game that can change weekly doesn't say anything good about your social intelligence. Again, I play this game, I don't crack the numbers. If Horn of Valor was included in a build that was because it worked, not because of the exact figures

 

When they fixed the Rampage bug, they also made it so that the HoH doesn't work with Dragon Rage. I believe Rampage now just negates the health cost of Dragon Rage. Perhaps you regenerated health through HoK?

 

You were the one who said that there are a lot of outdated builds due to balance changes, so I would at least expect you to be aware of those and include them in your builds. And the players who made the most builds here, like Penguin, Mortiel and Drasca, all know a lot about the game and it's mechanics. That's why their builds are actually good (except for Mortiel's hipster builds ).

[Yallegro]

I just read through the entire thing. Thumbs up for the effort, but you are mistaken on many levels. You often put very good abilities under the "not to get" sections. The portion about immunities/weaknesses is just ... wrong. Some abilities don't work the way you describe them to, etc. I won't do the job to pinpoint every erroneous statement, but I think you should at least double-check before your write something down and make sure that what you describe is accurate.

Are you serious

You're going to complain and then point out nothing of substance

My elemental weakness and resists are not wrong, do you think I'm blind when I do damage?

 

 

When they fixed the Rampage bug, they also made it so that the HoH doesn't work with Dragon Rage. I believe Rampage now just negates the health cost of Dragon Rage. Perhaps you regenerated health through HoK?

 

You were the one who said that there are a lot of outdated builds due to balance changes, so I would at least expect you to be aware of those and include them in your builds. And the players who made the most builds here, like Penguin, Mortiel and Drasca, all know a lot about the game and it's mechanics. That's why their builds are actually good

It was not HoK

 

Yes I'm sure they're awesome. But I don't think you're awesome.

[Cirvante]

It was not HoK

 

Yes I'm sure they're awesome. But I don't think you're awesome.

 

Then it may have been the glitch Courtnehh was talking about. What you wrote in your build was still wrong according to current balance changes.

 

And the feeling is mutual, friendo.

[Hang3d Man]

Wow bad day huh? I know after your efforts you are resenting the autopsy currently being performed, must be like someone calling your new born child you just brought home from the hospital "ugly" but being open to reexamine things without hostility would not be the worst concept. (Relevant throughout the internets, not just here...)

You know the old saying! "You get more flies with honey, then with s***." (Why you would want more flies, is something you can explore on your own.)

[Wavebend]

Are you serious

You're going to complain and then point out nothing of substance

My elemental weakness and resists are not wrong, do you think I'm blind when I do damage?

 

I'm not saying they're all wrong. Most are correct, but there are inaccuracies and/or incomplete lists. I won't quote your post but I'll list a few items in your lists that are inaccurate:

 

Enemies strong against spirit dmg : none

Enemies immune to sleep : Dealing a lot of spirit dmg, stonefist elementalists occassionally inflict sleep

Enemies immune to frozen : Black Hooded Venatori Mages are often immune

Important enemies that can be frozen : White Venatori Mage

Enemies immune to panic : most White Venatori Mages

 

What I'm more concerned about is how you're dismissing some abilities when they're probably better than what you have in your builds

[akots1]

 

Thx everyone who said something nice and of course, everything I post here is my opinion, it's not perfect but you can do a lot worse.

You have a lot of wrong information in your guide. That information is misleading other people who read your work and it might need to be corrected as Cirvante, Willbend, Courtnehh, Drasca and others pointed out. So, IMHO, overall, in your current state, your guide does more bad than good and it has to be corrected to be of any interest to anyone. It is not about opinion or trolling or something else like mentality on these forums. It is about being right and presenting correct information or making wrong statements without listening to feedback and without even acknowledging it is wrong. I hope you correct these errors and that would only improve your guide. Obviously, you have spent a lot of time and effort into writing it all up. And removing inaccuracies will only benefit you as more people will be able to read it and use it..

[Westrum]

As Drasca pointed out, your guide format is quite good. I'd love to see you read a little about game mechanics, and revise your post. If you do that, with an open mind, I can really see this guide be the "go-to" for beginners 

[ShadyJrock27]

[quote name="Yallegro" post="19371677" timestamp="1435924004"]
Gee look at all the trolls posting in my thread


If you think your builds are that much better than mine, I will gladly go into a lobby with you, then get the highscore every time. The end


What platform I'll invite you on xbox anytime

You can't out score me with any of those builds

[ShadyJrock27]

Gee look at all the trolls posting in my thread


If you think your builds are that much better than mine, I will gladly go into a lobby with you, then get the highscore every time. The end


Second: My builds are not designed to be new for the sake of being new, it is a list of good builds that I use.

Third: I know there are other build threads but I felt the need for an update as you can't tell which builds are outdated and you can't tell if the build makes sense on a difficulty higher than threatening

Fourth: The difficulty increases are a real thing, but I do not know the mechanics. If you've never seen a difference with a game full of assassins or full of arcanes, that is your problem. If you don't believe me on the promotions, play a game with silence 85, you WILL NOTICE.

To Nibyl: Hey you're the guy who has more points than me but can't ever seem to play as good as me. Also the "Yallegro's" bit means it is a build that I use, that I composed it on my own time and THAT I YALLEGRO recommend it.

Now I hope there's not another ton of people ready to defend a skill they just like.

[ShadyJrock27]

Gee look at all the trolls posting in my thread
What platform I'll invite you right now if your Xbox I guarantee you won't out score me

If you think your builds are that much better than mine, I will gladly go into a lobby with you, then get the highscore every time. The end


Second: My builds are not designed to be new for the sake of being new, it is a list of good builds that I use.

Third: I know there are other build threads but I felt the need for an update as you can't tell which builds are outdated and you can't tell if the build makes sense on a difficulty higher than threatening

Fourth: The difficulty increases are a real thing, but I do not know the mechanics. If you've never seen a difference with a game full of assassins or full of arcanes, that is your problem. If you don't believe me on the promotions, play a game with silence 85, you WILL NOTICE.

To Nibyl: Hey you're the guy who has more points than me but can't ever seem to play as good as me. Also the "Yallegro's" bit means it is a build that I use, that I composed it on my own time and THAT I YALLEGRO recommend it.

Now I hope there's not another ton of people ready to defend a skill they just like.

[Pork]

You can't out score me with any of those builds

 

Sounds like a thunderdome challenge to me!

[Drasca]

In general I really really like the format the OP has brought. He just needs to correct some information and preface the introduction a bit that the ratings are his personal opinion. The numeric system 0-10 scale really has no real bearing on gameplay anyway. If OP listed what were his favorites in numeric order that'd be somewhat interesting though.

 

I should do more qualitative pro/cons too, particularly about support xp generation of abilities.

 

You can't out score me with any of those builds

 

I do agree that some of his builds are terrible, but some other builds are the same as mine. So yes, he could (with mine), but not with all of his.

 

It is not about opinion or trolling or something else like mentality on these forums.

 

It is about being right and presenting correct information or making wrong statements without listening to feedback and without even acknowledging it is wrong. I hope you correct these errors and that would only improve your guide.

 

I really wish it was more about the latter than the former. Trolls and opinion mongers do exist that don't actually contribute anything but noise.

 

When they fixed the Rampage bug, they also made it so that the HoH doesn't work with Dragon Rage. I believe Rampage now just negates the health cost of Dragon Rage. Perhaps you regenerated health through HoK?

 

Actually that's not true, there's no guaranteed HoH with Dragon Rage, but it definitely does occur. I forget what the exact conditions that caused it were. I remember someone else figured it out, being told... and I didn't write it down.

[Drasca]

As for the build, nothing new on the planet. I've seen/played/tested pretty much every setup you got there.

 

To be fair, it is a list of his preferred builds after all. I argue the builds don't have to be 'new', just well written and explained. I welcome new write-ups & presentation on the same builds.

[Snakebite]

Some of these builds look pretty interesting and I will have to give them a try.

 

I just have one question?  Why use War Horn on all the 2-handed warriors?  I know it provides decent support XP, and it can also provide good crowd control, but it seems like it would be working against the Katari and the Avvar.

 

The Katari needs enemies bunched up to make full use of Charging Bull and Mighty Blow, not to mention the guard on hit.

 

The Avvar also works best when he can hit multiple enemies at once with Korth's Might, Hakkon's Charge, and Crushing Leap, among other abilities that you do not take.

 

P.S. This is not me attacking your builds or saying they are inferior.  I just would like to hear the reasoning behind it, because whenever I use War Horn I immediately regret it because scattering enemies is generally a bad thing in DAMP.

[Parachromis]

I liked the guide. Very nice. I don't pay much attention to pure numbers. Play style make a huge difference. I hate seeing the assassin with a 5/10 rating, but it is viable in perilous under certain circumstances--it just has a highly focused purpose. I think what can truly be taken from this guide is given enough perseverance, anyone can make a build viable. Optimal? Maybe not. That's where the human factor comes into play. I've played enough multiplayer games to see my share of people breaking all the "rules". I appreciate your insight and opinions; kudos for the guide and your effort!

[Drasca]

it seems like it would be working against the Katari and the Avvar.

 

The Katari needs enemies bunched up to make full use of Charging Bull and Mighty Blow, not to mention the guard on hit.

 

The Avvar also works best when he can hit multiple enemies at once with Korth's Might, Hakkon's Charge, and Crushing Leap, among other abilities that you do not take.

 

It does a little, but it isn't so bad given both Avvar and Katari are highly mobile, and vulnerable to Archer fire. Typically WH takes care of anything that'd interrupt 2H warriors, both ranged enemies and enemies that'd knock them down or stagger (Brutes, Red Knights, Pride Demons, Druffalo/Gurn, etc)

 

It isn't the worst choice available, but LW is too good and WH provides no elemental trigger KM synergy benefit for Avvar. I can't in good faith recommend WH to Avvar, but it isn't the worse possible skill either given how mobile Avvar are.

 

On Katari, the 4th slot after the primary Charge MB CR combo is really up to user preference. WH isn't a bad choice, and also synergizes with the innate guard on hit Katari has.

[Angelus_de_Mortiel]

I really wish it was more about the latter than the former. Trolls and opinion mongers do exist that don't actually contribute anything but noise.

Well, you know what they say... Charity starts at home.

I don't think anyone thinks the OP was wrong for making a well written, albeit lengthily, series of posts about builds.

I think the problem was trying to pass incorrect information off as fact. I've even made that same mistake. Unfortunately, some people jumped to hostility, leading to the OP jumping to hostility.

I honestly would rather have subjective posts segregated in some way from objective posts. The min/max'ers would have their area to discuss quantitative data and math, and others can have their area to discuss qualitative data and what "feels" fun.

I realize that will never happen, and honestly can't even think of a way to do it in the first place, but I do notice that is often a source of hostility: The collision of subjectivity and objectivity.

[Thadrial]

Well, you know what they say... Charity starts at home.

I don't think anyone thinks the OP was wrong for making a well written, albeit lengthily, series of posts about builds.

I think the problem was trying to pass incorrect information off as fact. I've even made that same mistake. Unfortunately, some people jumped to hostility, leading to the OP jumping to hostility.

I honestly would rather have subjective posts segregated in some way from objective posts. The min/max'ers would have their area to discuss quantitative data and math, and others can have their area to discuss qualitative data and what "feels" fun.

I realize that will never happen, and honestly can't even think of a way to do it in the first place, but I do notice that is often a source of hostility: The collision of subjectivity and objectivity.

It could be as simple as adding Fun builds or Min/Max builds to your title. I can't think of a way to make it easier 

[Snakebite]

It does a little, but it isn't so bad given both Avvar and Katari are highly mobile, and vulnerable to Archer fire. Typically WH takes care of anything that'd interrupt 2H warriors, both ranged enemies and enemies that'd knock them down or stagger (Brutes, Red Knights, Pride Demons, Druffalo/Gurn, etc)

 

 

No need to worry about knockdown or stagger if you have Combat Roll.  Archers would be bad to hit with War Horn because then all run away then recover and shoot you.  If you are in range to use War Horn on them, you are in range for Charging Bull and Mighty Blow.

[akots1]

I really wish it was more about the latter than the former. Trolls and opinion mongers do exist that don't actually contribute anything but noise..

A bit more than noise. It creates an ... atmosphere, a personal touch to otherwise impersonal information. This touch tempts people to stick around and read/write and probably to buy more Bioware products/games as well. And DragonRacer can organize the chaos to sort out what is useful and really helpful. She is the pillar and the foundation.

 

IMO, if a user is here to get the information, there is no need to read everything, just read what you need and post what you think is important. But if people like to socialize here, there should be no real obstacles to do that as well IMO. It is BSN after all.

[Yallegro]

Snakebite: I pick War Horn to prefer overal damage reduction to maximum damage output. It is just that simple. You will still do tons of damage and generate guard without the occasional multi hits.

 

Drasca: Which of my builds don't you like, some of these where tested less than others.

 

Going to work on adding improvements later today

[Drasca]

No need to worry about knockdown or stagger if you have Combat Roll.  Archers would be bad to hit with War Horn because then all run away then recover and shoot you.  If you are in range to use War Horn on them, you are in range for Charging Bull and Mighty Blow.

 

Not always. You don't always have the luxury of room to CR, nor is MB always ready. WH is better in CQC  where there isn't much room for them to run, and you can pick and choose which you want to kill. You won't always have MB off cooldown either.

 

Imagine this scenario: You have a large goup of venatori, but they're not perfectly lined up, so mighty blow doesn't finish them all. There's still venatori flowing in, so you choose a spot to take cover and warhorn while MB is on cooldown. The time the enemy is panicked is time that MB can come off CD.

 

Granted, I don't use WH anymore since I do both have ridiculous stats and I prefer other abilities, but I can see a fair arguement for it as the 4th skill.

 

 

Drasca: Which of my builds don't you like, some of these where tested less than others.

 

It would also help if you actually put in passives and explained your passives investment in your write-up.

 

A lot, pretty much everything that isn't mine. I'll poke around the names later. Basically my guideline is that I don't share publicly anything in an official list I haven't tested a lot. All my builds are geared for Perilous. There's builds that work marginally better on routine and threatening than Perilous, but since I don't tool my builds for the lower difficulties since the best rewards are on the highest difficulty.

 

All these are terrible, the cliff notes version:

 

Lego: CS blows

Assassin: evade, PW and DoD suck

Ele, Firestorm >> Stone Fist. Immolate blows

Keeper: CL (without weakness synergy) & Frost step is for noobs. No veilstrike, dispel or disruption field. No synergy. See my keeper builds for examples.

Alchemist: Alche sucks. Not much can do about this.

Necros: Blizzard sucks, FF sucks, the rest of the abilties eat up too much mana and cooldown. Not balanced.

Reaver: Basic reaver blows. Need to bee line to rampage/dragon rage. Devour still not good enough to be on bar vs other abilities.

Templar: Line in the Sand blows

Hunters: Terrible, not a lot to be helped though dropping ele mines would be a start.

AW: SB blows.

Avvar: WH not nearly as good as LW --> ET KM synergy

 

It'd take a loong time to explain how bad these are if you're overly convinced these are good because of your experiences on routine and threatening with these builds, or carried during perilous.

 

Quite simply you'll be blown away if you use better builds. Mine are some of them.

Modifié par Drasca, 04 juillet 2015 - 02:24 .

[Snakebite]

Snakebite: I pick War Horn to prefer overal damage reduction to maximum damage output. It is just that simple. You will still do tons of damage and generate guard without the occasional multi hits.

 

OK.  That sounds reasonable, especially for people who may not be able to completely kill mooks with a few hits.  I'm just used to having a nice Sulevin Blade proc pull everything together for me all the time;  Nothing feels better than a Charging Bull followed by a Mighty Blow against 5+ enemies. 

 

Thanks for the reply.

[Snakebite]

Not always. You don't always have the luxury of room to CR, nor is MB always ready. WH is better in CQC  where there isn't much room for them to run, and you can pick and choose which you want to kill. You won't always have MB off cooldown either.

 

Imagine this scenario: You have a large goup of venatori, but they're not perfectly lined up, so mighty blow doesn't finish them all. There's still venatori flowing in, so you choose a spot to take cover and warhorn while MB is on cooldown. The time the enemy is panicked is time that MB can come off CD.

 

Charging Bull + Sulevin Blade + Opportunist + Flow of Battle says otherwise.  I never have wait for Mighty Blow cooldown.

 

If you can find a place to "take cover", you have found a spot to corner pull.  You can just hit everything multiple times with each swing as they come around the corner.  I can only see the War Horn method you propose being better if you are having issues not killing things very quickly due to gear constraints (which is likely the case with what I would imagine is a rather large portion of Yallergo's target audience).

[Drasca]

Charging Bull + Sulevin Blade + Opportunist + Flow of Battle says otherwise.  I never have wait for Mighty Blow cooldown.

 

If you can find a place to "take cover", you have found a spot to corner pull.  You can just hit everything multiple times with each swing as they come around the corner.  I can only see the War Horn method you propose being better if you are having issues not killing things very quickly due to gear constraints (which is likely the case with what I would imagine is a rather large portion of Yallergo's target audience).

 

Correct, YOU (and me) can pull off much lower cd via FoB, but most people cannot due to much lower crit chance and defenses. You also have the luxury of swinging multiple times, whereas a lot of players won't. MB is a 16 second cooldown base, which is a medium long time, definitely long enough to die in the interim.

 

You actually cannot hit brutes multiple times, as they'll knock you down. Same for the Shield Charging enemies.

 

I've played enough 2H Warrior to know when it'll hurt trying to basic attack cancel.

 

I use WH primarily on Reaver, and Katari generally doesn't need it as much given CB can buy time just like WH can.
 

Note there is an arguement for WH. I just don't value it as much, just as you don't, given other options-- and how many points it takes to get there.