153 réponses à ce sujet

[yarpenthemad21]

To be fair, it is a list of his preferred builds after all. I argue the builds don't have to be 'new', just well written and explained. I welcome new write-ups & presentation on the same builds.

Preferred build list with the sound of "I'm best player on universe. Kneel before my build. My build is the best" with huge list of abilities described useless because of wrong information/l2p issue/lack of test/etc.
Things like Leaping shot sucks because you can miss with it but nothing about Throwing Blades and its terrible aiming when even one enemy is behind wall/cover or move fast. On Leaping Shot I can aim with mouse, on throwing blades stupid game decides what to hit (outside of 1st dagger)

Value of this wall of text isn't very high. Too much mistakes, author does not even care to fix it and call ppl a troll.

For new players, which in general should avoid gear dependent kits, build for keeper, ele, virtuoso even are either way to hipster or just without full in-formations. Should new player run around trying to spam coolbeats and barrier? Is it good idea for new player?

[Snakebite]

Correct, YOU (and me) can pull off much lower cd via FoB, but most people cannot due to much lower crit chance and defenses. You also have the luxury of swinging multiple times, whereas a lot of players won't. MB is a 16 second cooldown base, which is a medium long time, definitely long enough to die in the interim.

 

You actually cannot hit brutes multiple times, as they'll knock you down. Same for the Shield Charging enemies.

 

I've played enough 2H Warrior to know when it'll hurt trying to basic attack cancel.

 

That's why I said "I" never need to wait for cooldowns.  The Katari is much less promotion dependent and is more survivable since the buff and I do not think taking a swing or two to get off some abilities is all that unreasonable.

 

L2CombatRoll

 

I never asked for your opinion on the Katari or Avvar; It was pretty clear I was talking to the OP.  I do not care for your advice on 2-handed warriors; I have seen your gameplay.

[Yallegro]

Not always. You don't always have the luxury of room to CR, nor is MB always ready. WH is better in CQC  where there isn't much room for them to run, and you can pick and choose which you want to kill. You won't always have MB off cooldown either.

 

Imagine this scenario: You have a large goup of venatori, but they're not perfectly lined up, so mighty blow doesn't finish them all. There's still venatori flowing in, so you choose a spot to take cover and warhorn while MB is on cooldown. The time the enemy is panicked is time that MB can come off CD.

 

Granted, I don't use WH anymore since I do both have ridiculous stats and I prefer other abilities, but I can see a fair arguement for it as the 4th skill.

 

 

 

It would also help if you actually put in passives and explained your passives investment in your write-up.

 

A lot, pretty much everything that isn't mine. I'll poke around the names later. Basically my guideline is that I don't share publicly anything in an official list I haven't tested a lot. All my builds are geared for Perilous. There's builds that work marginally better on routine and threatening than Perilous, but since I don't tool my builds for the lower difficulties since the best rewards are on the highest difficulty.

 

All these are terrible, the cliff notes version:

 

Lego: CS blows

Assassin: evade, PW and DoD suck

Ele, Firestorm >> Stone Fist. Immolate blows

Keeper: CL (without weakness synergy) & Frost step is for noobs. No veilstrike, dispel or disruption field. No synergy. See my keeper builds for examples.

Alchemist: Alche sucks. Not much can do about this.

Necros: Blizzard sucks, FF sucks, the rest of the abilties eat up too much mana and cooldown. Not balanced.

Reaver: Basic reaver blows. Need to bee line to rampage/dragon rage. Devour still not good enough to be on bar vs other abilities.

Templar: Line in the Sand blows

Hunters: Terrible, not a lot to be helped though dropping ele mines would be a start.

AW: SB blows.

Avvar: WH not nearly as good as LW --> ET KM synergy

 

It'd take a loong time to explain how bad these are if you're overly convinced these are good because of your experiences on routine and threatening with these builds, or carried during perilous.

 

Quite simply you'll be blown away if you use better builds. Mine are some of them.

 

This can't be right lol. Except maybe alchemist being bad

 

Your favorite builds also seem to consist of half the possible skill combinations in the game so I'll forfeit rating them all against my own

 

At Yarpen: Get of your highhorse, I think any false information consisted of less than 5% of what I posted. I also have the tendency to sound more arrogant than I really am, so try and roll with this.

 

I wish it was easier to record on my ps3 to have videos backing up some of my claims

 

Still working on the edit

[Wavebend]

This can't be right lol.

 

Get of your highhorse, I think any false information consisted of less than 5% of what I posted. I also have the tendency to sound more arrogant than I really am, so try and roll with this.

 

k

[Wavebend]

Honestly, your builds aren't fit for perilous+ or teamplay. Your builds seem to be fit for threatening soloing at best. It's obvious you're lacking experience playing on the higher difficulties.

 

Hello everybody

 

So I started experimenting  and came up high performing builds for just about every class. I haven’t included the archer yet, srry I just don’t like playing him :-/. I love every class and build I post here, I tested them for hours, and everything is designed to work on perilous (EVENTUALLY).

 

Drasca's post is 100% spot on.

 

Again, as I said earlier, I don't expect anyone to justify their thoughts on why your builds aren't as good as they could be because that would take a huge amount of time. My suggestion is that you experiment more with Drasca's builds or at least try a SB-less AW build. (I personally can't take you seriously if you're playing an AW with SB post-nerf. Nuff' said )

[Spectr61]

Gee look at all the trolls posting in my thread
 
 
If you think your builds are that much better than mine, I will gladly go into a lobby with you, then get the highscore every time. The end
 
 
Second: My builds are not designed to be new for the sake of being new, it is a list of good builds that I use.
 
Third: I know there are other build threads but I felt the need for an update as you can't tell which builds are outdated and you can't tell if the build makes sense on a difficulty higher than threatening


 
Fourth: The difficulty increases are a real thing, but I do not know the mechanics. If you've never seen a difference with a game full of assassins or full of arcanes, that is your problem. If you don't believe me on the promotions, play a game with silence 85, you WILL NOTICE.
 
To Nibyl: Hey you're the guy who has more points than me but can't ever seem to play as good as me. Also the "Yallegro's" bit means it is a build that I use, that I composed it on my own time and THAT I YALLEGRO recommend it.
 
Now I hope there's not another ton of people ready to defend a skill they just like.

E-peen a little high?

Also, I call your Katari with a Pommel Strike/Combat Roll Katari, all day.

If you can't connect with PS, I'd suggest you learn how. it's a blast.

[Angelus_de_Mortiel]

If you can't connect with PS, I'd suggest you learn how. it's a blast.

It's surprising to hear about having Pommel Strike issues... As far as I understood, that was limited to mouse/keyboard players (one of the reasons I use a controller on PC for this game).

Maybe I'm wrong there... I've only have problems with dagger rogue skills connecting (Shadow Strike, Twin Fangs, et al).

[Drasca]

Value of this wall of text isn't very high. Too much mistakes, author does not even care to fix it and call ppl a troll.

 

To be fair, there are a bunch of trolls here. Author's too new to know who really are trolls are who aren't. There definitely are a lot of mistakes, but if he's willing to update his stuff, given how much effort that's been put in, it'll look really nice in the long run. I want to encourage this.

 

L2CombatRol

 

I have seen your gameplay.

 

Did you see the L3 and L5 Katari, pre-Dragon weapon Perilous runs?

 

LOL not always easily effective. See ranged enemies previously. Also Horror spikes when they track. Additionally, you said you were basic attacking, not combat rolling, so that inherently locks you down in the basic attack animation and the mental state / trained pattern of attack cancels.  It definitely takes more than two swings to get MB off cooldown, even if you're hitting three enemies at once each time (which is unlikely) -- even with 100% critical chance & FOB since MB is a 12s cooldown, and roughly 10 with SCD amulet.

 

If you think you can demonstrate how to play 2H warrior better, please do make videos about it and show everyone. That only helps everyone if you do. I've shown mine when NO one else was doing so from months ago. It is even easier than ever now.

 

Put up or shut up. Unlike trolls that can't back up their claims, I know you can actually make videos, so make some demonstrating how you think Reaver & Katari should be played.

[Courtnehh]

To be fair, there are a bunch of trolls here. Author's too new to know who really are trolls are who aren't. There definitely are a lot of mistakes, but if he's willing to update his stuff, given how much effort that's been put in, it'll look really nice in the long run. I want to encourage this.
 

 
Did you see the L3 and L5 Katari, pre-Dragon weapon Perilous runs?
 
LOL not always easily effective. See ranged enemies previously. Also Horror spikes when they track. Additionally, you said you were basic attacking, not combat rolling, so that inherently locks you down in the basic attack animation and the mental state / trained pattern of attack cancels.  It definitely takes more than two swings to get MB off cooldown, even if you're hitting three enemies at once each time (which is unlikely) -- even with 100% critical chance & FOB since MB is a 12s cooldown, and roughly 10 with SCD amulet.
 
If you think you can demonstrate how to play 2H warrior better, please do make videos about it and show everyone. That only helps everyone if you do. I've shown mine when NO one else was doing so from months ago. It is even easier than ever now.
 
Put up or shut up. Unlike trolls that can't back up their claims, I know you can actually make videos, so make some demonstrating how you think Reaver & Katari should be played.

Why? So you can go off on a tangent and still claim to be right? He's not stupid enough to waste his time like that again.

[yarpenthemad21]

To be fair, there are a bunch of trolls here. Author's too new to know who really are trolls are who aren't. There definitely are a lot of mistakes, but if he's willing to update his stuff, given how much effort that's been put in, it'll look really nice in the long run. I want to encourage this.

Stuff need to be updated because for now it can make more damage than good for new players. Community in general knows nothing, so when they at last end up on combat strategy forum they need to find proper info. We need to spread true.
It's not about builds as builds. When you think about this lists as "my favorite" it's obvious that author just like some sort of playstyle, has problems with few skills for some reason, don't like other skills for some reason. No problem here.
Problem is where skill is described in just plain wrong manner spreading bullshit instead of knowledge.
 

At Yarpen: Get of your highhorse, I think any false information consisted of less than 5% of what I posted. I also have the tendency to sound more arrogant than I really am, so try and roll with this.

It does not matter how much information are wrong. It a matter of how important those information are.
You can have 1 error which pretty much makes everything just plain wrong, because your assumptions are made around error. It's basic stuff really.
There was plenty of posts pointing out errors in your post (including me) just read it and think about it.

[Pork]

LOL Youre way out of your depth here Yallegro, go read Sun Tzus art of builds you filthy scrub

[Pork]

Put up or shut up.

Dont you remember what happened last time you told snakebite to do that? In case you need reminding, it was a week of straight humiliation and you lost what tiny shred of credibility you ever had.

[Yallegro]

At Yarpen:

-Nope, exactness is not nearly as important as you think it is

-In fact if this is how you usually respond to new people with suggestions you are doing more damage to this game than any amount of correct sums and deductions you present, could possibly make up for.

 

 

LOL Youre way out of your depth here Yallegro, go read Sun Tzus art of builds you filthy scrub 

 

I don't need to take that from a man called Pork

 

And I have read Sun Tzu already

[yarpenthemad21]

At Yarpen:
-Nope, exactness is not nearly as important as you think it is
-In fact if this is how you usually respond to new people with suggestions you are doing more damage to this game than any amount of correct sums and deductions you present, could possibly make up for.

Because ppl think that exactness isn't a value all this world looks like it looks. If exactness isn't important what is?

You don't want to update/fix/change/ your posts and statements, you can. Nobody will force you do it.

But for the god sake why you even shared this with other ppl? You don't care about critique, you don't want to change anything based on ppl who want to point errors and after that you just call ppl trolls? Why?

Problem with all this wall of text you presented is simple:
1) A lot of data is false wrong
2) Subjective as hell description of abilities with nuances like "I miss with that skill a lot so it sucks"
3) A lot of direct damage data. Some of balance changes aren't there even now, problem would be more obvious after several new changes. Either group build by date and treat them as build for this and that balance changes or just use more general approach.
4) Cool beats damage still is wrong..., poison weapons damage t2 buff is also wrong
5) Guides in general lack passive description. Some passives, on some kits are pretty much the most important points to spend. You need to point them out.
5) You use poison in many builds, good to point out how it really works.
Ticks every 2 seconds for damage listed in tooltip, lack of any kind of stacking, one toxic cloud at time and one corrosive at time. Sucks on stairs...Not just "deal more damage than you think"...
Problem is it is listing 50% damage per second, but in reality it's 50% damage per 2 seconds...I don't know where you see this more damage than you think scenario.

[Angelus_de_Mortiel]

I don't need to take that from a man called Pork

And I have read Sun Tzu already

He was making a thinly-veiled stab at Drasca. Unfortunately, there is a lot of history and inside "jokes" that require explanation.

Aside, the accuracy of your information is entirely relative to the manner in which you portray it. If you portray it as fallible and subjective, people will be far less hostile. Unfortunately, you phrased it from a place of authority (coming from your leaderboard ranking), which has been a claim here before that was torn down. Posting on BSN, it's logical to assume the audience will be largely more experienced with the game, which is why it is not my primary audience (about 11% of my total audience, to be exact).

I think it might be important for you to understand what has happened here from a more objective standpoint: Write up your builds. Please. Just know your product and know your audience.

[Pork]

I don't need to take that from a man called Pork

 

And I have read Sun Tzu already

 

My name isn't actually Pork, its my username on BSN, im surprised I actually have to explain this to you. I suggest reading The Book of 5 Builds by Musashi then. 

[DragonRacer]

It's surprising to hear about having Pommel Strike issues... As far as I understood, that was limited to mouse/keyboard players (one of the reasons I use a controller on PC for this game).

Maybe I'm wrong there... I've only have problems with dagger rogue skills connecting (Shadow Strike, Twin Fangs, et al).

 

Pommel Strike definitely has some tracking issues same as the rogue skills you listed... on PS4, at least. I can only assume the other consoles experience the same.

 

It is still an ability I take. I enjoy it and it connects more often than it doesn't, but I have seen some definite misses on its part. Whether that's due to lag more than anything else, I'm not sure. It's possible, as I almost never host - either Quick Match into a PUG lobby or join a friend's room they are hosting.

[Yallegro]

At Yarpen:

 

Tssk, scientism

 

I think if all people demanded exactness they'd tear each other apart over tiny differences, just like you are doing.

 

 

At Mortiel:

 

Yes I was quoting from a position of authority, but that can be easily confused with "quoting from a position of infallibility"

 

I like this game, I play tons, I do well. My opinion may not be worth much, but there's a chance it is

 

And quite frankly when I was starting in this game I would have loved to have someone step up and say "These builds are good!" instead of "These builds may be good, I don't know, might be just as bad as that guy promoting a Firelicks Virtuoso :X"

[Cirvante]

Pommel Strike definitely has some tracking issues same as the rogue skills you listed... on PS4, at least. I can only assume the other consoles experience the same.

 

It is still an ability I take. I enjoy it and it connects more often than it doesn't, but I have seen some definite misses on its part. Whether that's due to lag more than anything else, I'm not sure. It's possible, as I almost never host - either Quick Match into a PUG lobby or join a friend's room they are hosting.

 

Pommel Strike misses sometimes, but because it is executed so fast, it's usually not a problem as you can just follow it up with another which usually connects. Rogue abilities with bad movement tracking are much more annoying.

[DragonRacer]

Pommel Strike misses sometimes, but because it is executed so fast, it's usually not a problem as you can just follow it up with another which usually connects. Rogue abilities with bad movement tracking are much more annoying.

 

Very much agreed on both counts. Partly why I don't consider Pommel Strike whiffs to be too bad, save for the very few where 3-4 in a row refuse to connect, but that's very rare.

 

Now, my Assassin jumping in circles because Twin Fangs doesn't want to connect... yeah, that's much more annoying.

[Cirvante]

Very much agreed on both counts. Partly why I don't consider Pommel Strike whiffs to be too bad, save for the very few where 3-4 in a row refuse to connect, but that's very rare.

 

Now, my Assassin jumping in circles because Twin Fangs doesn't want to connect... yeah, that's much more annoying.

 

Sometimes it also helps to use one basic attack to bring you in close and Pommel Strike immediately after the hit connects.

[Spectr61]

Very much agreed on both counts. Partly why I don't consider Pommel Strike whiffs to be too bad, save for the very few where 3-4 in a row refuse to connect, but that's very rare.
 
Now, my Assassin jumping in circles because Twin Fangs doesn't want to connect... yeah, that's much more annoying.

This.

[Yallegro]

Update

 

This is what has been edited so far.

 

-Lady's Revenge is of the unwanted skill list

 

-Avvar now has 3 variations for the last skill being War Horn/Lady's Revenge or Rage of the Avvar

 +Still states that Lady's Revenge may not be the most defensive option

 

-Added electric resists/weaknesses to the avvar section

 

-Removed the part about the reaver regenerating health with Dragon Rage, removed the section about hitting large enemies.

 

-Many brazen statements about skills where removed or were rephrased in more neutral wording

 

-Intro now states that I play on the PS3 which is slightly different from PC

 

-Updated the section on Leaping Shot for the hunter after extra testing. Stand by my initial statement that the skill does not work very well, at least on the PS3

 

-Updated the section on Spirit Mark after extra testing. No difference in recommendation (for PS3)

 

-"Outdated skills" now mentions some actual examples 

 

-Alchemist and Hunter build now mentions the bug that lets you have the full Toxic Cloud at tier 1

 

-Added part acknowledging the subjectivity of some of my claims

 

-Added part to Firestorm stating that it isn't great if your critical chance is low, if it is high it is of course good

 

-Updated on Pommel Strike for the reaver, giving an extra reason not to get it

 

-Added a part on why to prefer Counterstrike to War Cry

 

-Found a huge gaff on Lunge and Slash, idk which version I tested but it is actually awesome, I think the whole legionnaire section which have to be altered to accommodate this.

 

-Improved some sections on panic and poison concerning Venatori Mages and Pride demons which have varying immunities

[Shiratori]

2 minor things that no one else mentioned as far as I saw.

1. Full Draw - the cool down is only 8 seconds now. So that definitely is not a negative.

2. Leaping Shot - one huge benefit this ability has is to get you out of status effects. If you were knocked down or panicked, for example, you an recover and be back on your feet and score large damage on whomever was near you. I find this to be a life saver since there aren't many abilities in the game that can do that for you. Just something to consider.

[Kenny Bania]

From a formatting perspective, it might be better if you have all the builds in the original post only, with spoiler tags to hide the detail. Makes it a hell of a lot more readable.