110 réponses à ce sujet

[Iamjdr]

How exactly is it morinths idea if I can choose between the two? Okay maybe your right about the broker but it still doesn't work out in Tim's favor. And I never said anything about people being killed being good so? If you think blowing it up is stupid that's your opinion, which some of my sheps have shared. I like to actually make different shep for different runs since it is a rpg an all that jazz.

[Blackguard]

There is a simple reason for you couldn't tell TIM to **** off from the start.

The game would be over, haha.

 

On a more serious note: there HAS to be some railroad that leads you through a storydriven game like this.

I am not saying it earns a pulizer price, particularly in the begin of ME 2 (it is dramatic... shiny... but... yea well).

But there HAS to be one.

For shepard it was always the "i am only a soldier, i fight for the survival of mankind"-Railroad.

I don't feel very connected to that.

I am not a soldier-minded men. I don't follow orders very well, i never did. I am also a misanthropic bastard and a some kind of mercenary captain or worse would have fit me better. I celebrate DLC that brought me Zaeed every time i play ME 2.

BUT you knew that the protagonist you are playing is a soldier.

So regarding that, personally i never felt too much in the chains of this fact (maybe because i am that simple minded killer, that is happy if you point him at a target and let it up to him how to kill it ).

That been said i only played as almost-full Renegade.

 

But beside that, this is the same issue as the "will we be allowed to be real evil this time"-question.

There are limits, because Biowares style of storytelling/gameplay.

We are not playing sandboxy games like Skyrim or Fallout here. Sometimes a pity...

but then again... in Skyrim or Fallout i don't got a Tali, Grunt, Garrus, etc... not even not-companions like Aria (which i really liked in ME 2 and 3, she would made a great companion for my scoundrel-crew).

 

In short: you can't freaking have it all.

If you want freedom it comes with the cost if depth and atmosphere, and vice versa.

Both in one would be really great, but i don't see such thing (and don't tell me Witcher 3 is, for it isn't, albeit it is a great game).

[Farangbaa]

My point is that Shepard almost never says:

'Wait, people, wait. THIS is how we're going to do it instead'

He/she is always executing someone else's plan or choosing between options others have given him/her.

I'm sounding overly negative here though, I know this

edit:

I hate Skyrim. Worst game I've ever played.
Never played the Witcher, except the intro for like 10 minutes.

I'm not coming from 'there'.

[Iamjdr]

Zaeed is the man R.I.P Robin Sachs

There is definite railroading in me2, I'm not denying that. However it does give you room to branch out eventually.

Edit
And i was actually only speaking from the perspective of me2, not the trilogy. That is the game I started with, And the only one I still play.

[Blackguard]

My point is that Shepard almost never says:

'Wait, people, wait. THIS is how we're going to do it instead'

He/she is always executing someone else's plan or choosing between options others have given him/her.

I'm sounding overly negative here though, I know this
 

 

A little bit, but i still get your point

 

No, he never says "people wait, THIS is how we do it"...

Lets say you got THAT option 3 times in the whole freaking ME 2.

That means up to 9 different storylines, IF you give this decisions a real meaning (more than "ok we WON'T kill this guy... to see a sequence where he is running in front of a drunken Krogan, insults his mother and dies anyway).

That is not possible. It don't works.

 

If you try to tell a story that way, you dissipate yourself.

That don't works if you write a novel, and that don't works when you write a story-driven game.

Ofc i WOULD like to have that freedom.

But meh.

If you try that, you dissipate yourself as a storyteller, for the storylines simply explodes in your face (and the ones of the player in this case). They did that, slowly but steady, even with the little freedom we got in the 3 games.

In the end they got a clusterfuck they could only "solve" with the glorious ending they wrote for this triologie.

 

I rather like half-way-well hidden railroads for Andromeda.

[themikefest]

Technically, the mission from the start was to destroy the collectors and wipe out their base of operations. There was never any mention of capturing their base. Until ol glow-eyes presented the option, you didn't even know you could.

What makes that scene funny is whoever squadmate is with you happens to have grenade like thing in their back pocket that will send a timed radiation pulse to save the base or destroys the base

[Farangbaa]

A little bit, but i still get your point
 
No, he never says "peole wait, THIS is how we do it"...
Lets say you got THAT option 3 times in the whole freaking ME 2.
That means 9 different storylines, IF you give this decisions a real meaning (more than "ok we WON'T kill this guy... to see a sequence where he is running in front of a drunken Krogan, insults his mother and dies anyway).
That is not possible. It don't works.

No. Just have those two people say their thing, but execute "Shepard's" plan. I'm not talking about having options, I'm talking about "Shepard" not being a mindless drone who just follows order. (<-- which is even more annoying because everybody in the galaxy treats Shepard like he is Jesus, Muhammed, Buddha, Alexander the Great and Julius Ceasar in a single person)

[Dunmer of Redoran]

Honestly? I don't want the protagonist to be equal to or superior than Shepard in terms of accomplishments. Doing so cheapens the experience of the game. A better idea is this: make it so that Shepard's stand-in is against a completely different kind of threat that requires completely different sorts of skills. There would be no question of who's better because it'd be apples and oranges.

 

The Champion of Cyrodiil wouldn't have been able to defeat Alduin because they didn't have the Thuum. The Last Dragonborn wouldn't have been able to defeat Mehrunes Dagon because there's no word walls or dragon souls in Cyrodiil. Neither character is in the other's shadow because their powers are so radically different.

 

Shepard has the cypher and the ability to understand the accumulated knowledge of the Protheans. Give Shepard-Lite some other power that allows for plot advancement to handle a unique threat. And there you go, problem solved.

[Blackguard]

No. Just have those two people say their thing, but execute "Shepard's" plan. I'm not talking about having options, I'm talking about "Shepard" not being a mindless drone who just follows order. (<-- which is even more annoying because everybody in the galaxy treats Shepard like he is Jesus, Muhammed, Buddha, Alexander the Great and Julius Ceasar in a single person)

 

Ah, i see.

Yea well... in that case ( and the messias-behaviour ) you (and i) feel quite distinct that we, indeed, play the bioware char.

We feel the railroads.

He himself dislikes this hero worshiping of his person, too, and often says things like

"I only did what has to be done" or "i am only a simple soldier, not a XY".

So yes, we play a sterotype soldier. But as i said, we knew that from the start.

As a soldier you don't discuss, you follow your orders.

I don't say i like the soldier role, but his behaviour is quite coherent for the (a little plain and stereotype) background that Bioware wrote for him.

(The cerberus-follower-stuff must have felt very plain in the beginning for a paragon-shep. As a Renegade i didn't got that problem. The people don't believe me and don't listen to me, so **** them. I team up with whoever is on my side on fighting the enemy. Good enough.)

[In Exile]

Yeah, sarcHawke was basically like the renegade, only easier going and said far less stupid stuff, and even had a better speech.

You also don't do things that are totally psychotic, which is a plus. Any play through I've done in ME that involved using renegade options (until ME3) just meant avoiding most of the actual renegade choices outside of dialogue and interrupts.

[MrFob]

I don't know, there are a few moments where Shep did take the reigns. ME1 - stealing the Normandy to go to Illos comes to mind. Sure, you do make the final plan with Anderson at Flux but it is clear that Shepard did have every intention to do it one way or another (scene at the locker with your LI). This is an example where Shepard's defiance against authority is railroaded by the way.

In ME2, usually the first thing my Shepards do after getting the new ship is to go the the Citadel, not Omega. Only after it is clear that there is no help to be found there do I fo along with TIM's idea. Also, I send Veetor back to the quarians, not to Cerberus as the others tell you to do, that was Shepard's call. S/he also revives Grunt and works with Legion against everyones recommendations. In Overlord, I send David Archer to Grissom no matter what everyone else wants.

In ME3, it's Shepard's call the rescue Admiral Zaal'Koris despiute the fact that he doesn't want to be rescued himself.

 

The big decisions - like the Rachni queen, Virmire, save/loose the council, the collector base and of course the endings - are all entirely up to Shepard, there is no outside influence there, that I have to adhere to.

 

Some of these may be really minor examples but some of them are also rather important decisions. And as Blackguard said, there is a limit to how much you can branch a storyline. Would I have liked Shepard to show more initiative? Maybe but I certainly didn't feel like Shep was just a tool. It's just that the crysis we face in the trilogy is too big for one guy, not to rely on information and recommendations from others.

That's just my take on things though, I am sorry if you felt differently, especially if it sours your enjoyment of the games.

[CrutchCricket]

That is the main issue with bioware in these games in my opinion.

Or maybe with the players, too, if they are right?

You GOT to be the Superhero-Villian-Whatever.

The savior or destroyer of the universe.

I find this so tiresome (because they use this in any francise).

 

Is that really what the players want? Look at SWTOR, it is the best example how to complete mess things up.

Every char is an idol... the universe is full of it... what a stupid, dull, childish setting it is noiw storywise, at least to me.

In a nutshell: yep. People like it because it works pretty well.

 

ME3 only failed because the ultimate hero power fantasy was overshadowed by the apocalypse/disaster movie/ cosmic horror plot that is the Reapers. It was a case of unstoppable force meeting immovable object.

 

And I contend the TOR PCs are all "idols". The Knight clearly is. The Consular to a lesser extent. But the trooper's just a soldier doing his job (once you get past the fact that he doesn't so much lead his squad as has one of them tag along while he Rambo's everything. But that's gameplay, not story) And the smuggler's stakes are pretty much personal throughout. On the Empire side the Warrior is a tool, literally, from start to finish, the Inquisitor while powerful and a good example of what a Sith rise to power would be is still just fighting for personal power and is only one of the Dark Council. The BH is in the same boat as the smuggler and the agent is too busy subverting most Star Wars expectations to fall into the mold you're describing.

[dragonflight288]

I don't think we need another Shepard. Shepard's story is over with, and (s)he is either dead or barely alive in a world without any synthetics, or is now a high-functioning AI.

 

Shepard's legacy was built by being the first human specter, an N7 (and not even close to being the only N7) who learns about the Reapers and leads the charge against them. 

 

This new protagonist we'll be playing will be a highly skilled person, just like Shepard was, but will be dealing with far different circumstances, and their story will be built by the events around them and how they (we) deal with them.

 

Batman would not be half the hero he is without a Joker to contend with. Spider-man without the Green Goblin, Doc Oc, or the Lizard would be a very boring hero, and Harry Potter would be a regular kid-wizard without Voldemort forcing him to react.

 

Shepard had the Reapers, the Warden had Loghain and the Darkspawn, Hawke had Meredith, Orsino and the Arishok, and the Inquisitor had the Breach and the Elder One. Our new protagonist will have his/her own issues that'll help develop their legend. 

[KaiserShep]

What makes that scene funny is whoever squadmate is with you happens to have grenade like thing in their back pocket that will send a timed radiation pulse to save the base or destroys the base

 

TIM: A timed radiation pulse will kill the remaining Collectors, but leave the machinery and technology intact. 

 

Shepard: Cool beans. How do I do that?

 

TIM: You didn't bring something to emit a timed radiation pulse?

 

Shepard: Ch'ya. Right along with my reaper removal spray and catsuit lubricant.

 

Miranda: Hey!

[Dr. Rush]

Easy, its called roleplaying. Shepard is a poorly designed protagonist for a roleplaying game. There is tremendous potential and room to be improved upon. 

[DebatableBubble]

Commander Shepard is a tool.

Never does he/she come up with a plan. Always just executing what others planned. A simple, mindless killing machine.

If there's any question to be had, it's why Shepard is so loved to begin with. And the Warden too, for that matter.

The Warden's even worse imo, but whatever

 

How could you possibly hate the best mary sue in existence? 

[DebatableBubble]

In a nutshell: yep. People like it because it works pretty well.

 

ME3 only failed because the ultimate hero power fantasy was overshadowed by the apocalypse/disaster movie/ cosmic horror plot that is the Reapers. It was a case of unstoppable force meeting immovable object.

 

And I contend the TOR PCs are all "idols". The Knight clearly is. The Consular to a lesser extent. But the trooper's just a soldier doing his job (once you get past the fact that he doesn't so much lead his squad as has one of them tag along while he Rambo's everything. But that's gameplay, not story) And the smuggler's stakes are pretty much personal throughout. On the Empire side the Warrior is a tool, literally, from start to finish, the Inquisitor while powerful and a good example of what a Sith rise to power would be is still just fighting for personal power and is only one of the Dark Council. The BH is in the same boat as the smuggler and the agent is too busy subverting most Star Wars expectations to fall into the mold you're describing.

 

The Consular's respect was earned, though. As a Knight, goddamn Satele is kissing your ass the moment you step off the shuttle.

[Shechinah]

The Consular's respect was earned, though.

Despite what is generally said about the Consular, I did thoroughly enjoy playing mine especially after Act 1 had finished. The final scene in Act 3 was absolutely wonderful to me. It felt like you got your due and all you did mattered. Two of the companions were even amongst my favorites; The Tython and Balmorran companions respectively especially the latter because of how his interactions with my Consular played out.

[CrutchCricket]

The Consular's respect was earned, though. As a Knight, goddamn Satele is kissing your ass the moment you step off the shuttle.

I wouldn't go so far. If anything the Consular gets the first extravagant praise. Yuon Par says he had more Force power in him at 14 than she does as a master or something, and that's literally right at the gate, first time you meet her. Satele's praise would rate higher of course, but I seem to remember her being a bit more reserved, and only expressing approval after you actually do something. Still, the Grand Master inviting a random initiate to a private audience- special snowflake confirmed.

[Torgette]

Well at one point in time Commander Shepard wasn't a thing, and then they were a thing and honestly kind of boring in ME1. Then they kept making games and making Shepard more and more a thing, and now we're sitting here thinking "how can anybody top that???". Well you start small and work your way into fans' minds and before you know it people will be like "how can you top this guy/gal??" and the cycle repeats itself.

[Pearl (rip bioware)]

I fixed that a little for you.
Now i can agree.

There are actually some fanfictions about this.

Don't look for them.

[Fantastic Fantasy]

I think Bioware can pull it off, as I found Shepard to often be boring with no personality. Sorry Shepard fans. 

 

The supporting characters and story (Well. Up until that ending) was mainly why I kept coming back to the series. The only time I saw a flicker of a personality was in ME3, especially during the Citadel DLC.

[N7Jamaican]

I think I'm starting to dislike Shepard...

[rapscallioness]

Love Shepard. And love Hawke. I will miss them both.

 

However, Shep is not coming back...as far as I know. And that's for the best really. The new PC just needs to be different. If they were not military, that would go a long way. Give them different motivations and goals.

 

But I'm not sure what's going on with that. I mean, I'm still not sure who that N7 person was in the teaser. Was it a stand in to represent a future PC? Or was it a major character?  Are we N7 again? And exactly what would that mean within the context of the new story?

 

I hope I fall in love with this new PC.

[The Heretic of Time]

 

 

It's sooo.... this gif. 

 

Shepard lives on in my headcanon and she's kicking arse, not getting a fat arse and beer belly on some beach. She's a soldier. But that's another discussion. 

 

 

I'm pretty sure he is either dead or in a coma.

 

But hey, you can headcanon whatever you want. But to me, it doesn't seem very likely that Shepard would get out alive and well after that big explosion that he was at the epicenter of.

 

Anyway, my Shepard is chilling at the throne of the Catalyst, commanding the new reaper police force.