54 réponses à ce sujet

[Eelectrica]

I hope it's better. It's probably the thing I'm looking forward to the most. I could stop at make the planets interesting, but that probably doesn't help much.

 

So things I'd like to see, unique monsters for a start, with unique mechanics.

Each planet having its own interactive story. None of this plant 10 flags for 20 power points nonsense from DAI. Witcher 3 quality of interactivity should be the baseline for which they should strive for. with 18 or so months of development time they should be exceeding it of course.

 

Edit: What the hell was I think typing 10 flags for 20 power points, it's more like 20 flags for 2 power points.

 

Quests which can give unique items and gear, or even unique, game changing powers. Or enhancing existing ones.

 

Depending on choices we make, we could gain allies, or new enemies. Lets not have the obvious choice be the only choice, lets have some damned if you do, damned if don't choices as well. having to learn a little about the alien cultures to know which choices to make, again making the obvious choices a red herring.

 

In short, make it worthwhile, make it worth the trip.

 

To keep us on our toes, perhaps a few dud planets, but even then there should be something there, like a monster or something that can kick our ass, or some urgent quest to solve to get the hell out of there.

[Indigenous]

I played The Old Republic. I have played Inquisition. I believe it will be better. Especially if there are minigames based on motorsports, which I think there will be.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Hopefully.

 

The stuff about 100s of explorable worlds has me concerned though. DA:I suffered from having a game world too large for the amount of interesting content they could fill it with. Rather than the amount of interesting content they could create determining the size of the game world, it seems that the game world itself and a focus on exploration was given the priority. I hope ME:A doesn't follow suit.

 

From the developer interviews for DA:I it seems like the implemented the open world thing because it worked for games like Skyrim, and not because they believed it would enhance the story they were trying to tell (which, sort of, ended up being the case). That's the thing with ME:A I'm 'worried' about. Is it going to end up being just a series of different visual motifs to decorate hundreds they use to decorate linear series of hallways for filler missions or is it going to add to a story's themes in any significant way.

 

I liked the trailer in the beginning, but a feeling of dread occured as soon as it focused to the character with a gun shooting and stabbing things.

[Hiemoth]

From the developer interviews for DA:I it seems like the implemented the open world thing because it worked for games like Skyrim, and not because they believed it would enhance the story they were trying to tell (which, sort of, ended up being the case). That's the thing with ME:A I'm 'worried' about. Is it going to end up being just a series of different visual motifs to decorate hundreds they use to decorate linear series of hallways for filler missions or is it going to add to a story's themes in any significant way.

 

I liked the trailer in the beginning, but a feeling of dread occured as soon as it focused to the character with a gun shooting and stabbing things.

 

I don't think that is a fair representation of what the developers of DAI said, as they never indicated something like that, but I do admit there were really werid vibes there. For example how Darrah kept repeating how the message they received was to go back to exploration like in the old Bioware games, which was really odd since neither Dragon Age game focused on anything resembling open exploration. All the levels were story designed with some minor quests added. Actually, the most recent Bioware game that really focused on exploration was Mass Effect, where it was seen as so valuable that they dumped that aspect from both sequeslt in order to focus on actual content in unique locations.

 

I will admit that the possible exploration focus is something I am concerned as well, as it almost always leads to empty content. For example, I haven't played Arkham Knight yet, but from what feedback I've seen, in the developers push to open up the world as a larger place, it lead them to have a lot repeating, grinding content in it. For me, ME2/3 approach was ideal, with really unique locations with content, even if it was minor, but at the same time I understand the point of view for ME:A. This is a new galaxy, so exploring the new worlds should be at the heart of it, it's just that I have yet to see a game where they are able to have effectively support the narrative.

[ImaginaryMatter]

I don't think that is a fair representation of what the developers of DAI said, as they never indicated something like that, but I do admit there were really werid vibes there. For example how Darrah kept repeating how the message they received was to go back to exploration like in the old Bioware games, which was really odd since neither Dragon Age game focused on anything resembling open exploration. All the levels were story designed with some minor quests added. Actually, the most recent Bioware game that really focused on exploration was Mass Effect, where it was seen as so valuable that they dumped that aspect from both sequeslt in order to focus on actual content in unique locations.

 

I will admit that the possible exploration focus is something I am concerned as well, as it almost always leads to empty content. For example, I haven't played Arkham Knight yet, but from what feedback I've seen, in the developers push to open up the world as a larger place, it lead them to have a lot repeating, grinding content in it. For me, ME2/3 approach was ideal, with really unique locations with content, even if it was minor, but at the same time I understand the point of view for ME:A. This is a new galaxy, so exploring the new worlds should be at the heart of it, it's just that I have yet to see a game where they are able to have effectively support the narrative.

 

I don't consider myself a DA:I development expert, but I remember a lot of comparisons like this:

 

"It’s a fresh start a certain degree, I mean this is a franchise with a long pedigree, even though it’s only the third game, and draws upon Bioware’s history much more deeply than the Mass Effect series does. So that always comes with certain expectations, you can only push that so far.Skyrim changed the landscape for role-playing games completely. I mean Oblivion probably sold six million units, basically that range, Skyrim sold 20 million. So that, to some degree, changes everything."

[karushna5]

I really dislike Open world/exploration but I will say this, die hard fans and general customers are different things. The whole idea of dont mess with your hard core people, really ignores that opening up to a larger base means if a few hard core people leave, it doesn't make as much difference monetarily.

 

People liked exploration. Skyrim changed the game, and they have to chase the money because RPGs are really small and don't sell that much. 

 

I feel most hard core Bioware fans don't like exploration, but most people do. if Bioware wants to stay alive in a really small competitive area they have to do whats popular, and right now, thet's exploration.

 

I just hope it isn't as lifeless as in the past.

[Valkyrja]

It would be good to have a mixture of closed and open exploration missions.

 

Tali's recruitment mission was a nice focused set piece where you had to battle your way through the Quarian colony while dealing with a unique environmental hazard that the level was designed around.

 

 

On the other hand you could have something like Oblivion

 

 

where you drive through the ancient remnants of smashed ships and decaying buildings. The focus here could be environmental storytelling and creating the humbling feeling that there were whole civilizations and vast conflicts that existed in the galaxy and are now forgotten.

[Valkyrja]

I really dislike Open world/exploration but I will say this, die hard fans and general customers are different things. The whole idea of dont mess with your hard core people, really ignores that opening up to a larger base means if a few hard core people leave, it doesn't make as much difference monetarily.
 
People liked exploration. Skyrim changed the game, and they have to chase the money because RPGs are really small and don't sell that much. 
 
I feel most hard core Bioware fans don't like exploration, but most people do. if Bioware wants to stay alive in a really small competitive area they have to do whats popular, and right now, thet's exploration.
 
I just hope it isn't as lifeless as in the past.

 
BioWare had exploration in ME1 and despite my opinion of the execution I agree that a sci-fi RPG is a great opportunity for it. There is a huge potential for exploration in the setting and imagination (and money of course) are the only limits of the crazy stuff you could come up with to find, see, and do.
 


Exploring space is romanticized for a reason. It sure would be disappointing if it ended up being more checklist bullshit like something out of the yearly Ubisoft cash-in.

[Seboist]

Bioware Edmonton should've refined exploration and kept it in ME2 and 3, instead of throwing the baby out with the bathwater and having them as merely linear corridor shooters with spellcasting. Thankfully, Bioware Montreal doesn't follow the "remove it, don't  improve it" approach and saw that it was a mistake.

[LordSwagley]

I know if I hear ANYTHING about collecting all the "Bottles of Andromeda" or collecting all the "Remnant Shards" to open up some crappy temple then I'll start worrying. Whoever thought all that filler mumbo-jumbo was "fun" should maybe apply for a job at Ubisoft, thats seems to be more their thing.

DA:I had its golden moments (Some epic story missions, Companion Quests, Romances, and a couple maps were linear and interesting enough to be good fun) but they were so spread out by filler it drastically hurt the game. I am actually quite confident Bioware Montreal will looks to see where things went wrong, correct them, and move forward.

[Broganisity]

Make it worthwhile or don't bother.

Basically this.

This in regards to exploration.

This in regards to Romance.

This in regards to Multiplayer.

This in regards to Playable Velociraptor Bounty Hunters.

[fchopin]

Space and exploration go hand in hand, both are needed to make a true space game.

[AdmiralBoneToPic]

ME1's exploration was terrible and I don't want to see something like those Uncharted Worlds ever again. I would gladly take a handful of well-done planets over another mile wide and inch deep approach that ends up with boring worlds and boring content. It would be a horrible miscalculation if they think people have any desire to drive a rover across barren and lifeless worlds collecting space junk again.

 

I would like to see visually distinctive and imaginative worlds that feel like real effort was put into them. Once the novelty of ME1's skyboxes rapidly wore off you realized that the worlds were different colored deserts with terra-gen mountains and the less said about the infamous asset reuse the better. The engine is better and the tools are better so I am not particularly worried about this one.

 

What I am concerned about is the content. Both ME1 and DA:I were overstuffed with make-work grinding that seemed to be more about a bulletpoint on a box (explore dozens of worlds, one hundred hours of content, etc.) than actually being enjoyable in its own right. I'm not as hung up on the cinematic dialogue camera as some, high-quality content can stand on its own without cinematics, but there needs to be some depth and involvement here. It could also be cool if exploration and side quests had some unique weapons and equipment as rewards.

 

Somehow Star Trek managed to skip all the episodes involving prospecting for minerals in barren shitholes. They had the right idea. Make it worthwhile or don't bother.

 

Agreed. My biggest beef with ME1, exploration(if one can even call what ME1 did as "exploration"..which you cant imo) was effectively go to a planet, drive around a square of rocky terrain, go to one of three building layouts, kill the inhabitants and receive a text update of what you have achieved. I mean in my last ME1 playthrough pretty much consisted of going through areas, pointing my gun at any red triangle available and engaging Marksman until win. The uncharted worlds exploration and thier side missions became the stuff to plough through to get to the good stuff, which was essentially Virmire's big reveal and everything past that. Although more relevant to exploration: I'll put Noveria down as an early game highlight, that was a really well constructed part of game. They did exploration right there. Its a shame the game never attempted anything like that again.

 

But i just hope that with ME:A the exploration is not poorly implemented + the idea that the Mako and simply driving around on a barren rock with long windy paths(a long winding road punctuated by enemy chokepoints: oh! this is a main quest mission!) is "exploration"... I hope the ME:A team bring more to the table than that. There's much more to exploration than just that imo. I hope they don't skimp on the cultral aspect of exploration too. You note Star Trek and i think Bioware were closest to that with ME2. That was just right imo. For exploration to be fun, it cant be exploration for explorations sake. It needs to be varied and every location unique, different, highly detailed n fully realised. Purposeful & worthwhile(if its not exploration can become very tedious & repetitive in short order) etc..and if that means a smaller number of worlds then i'd be happy with that. To me bigger is not better, Quantity over quality should never be an open world's game motto. Unfortunatly it sounds like to me they're going for biggness again. I just hope in going for this huge scope they don't loose the sight of the detail, richness & intricacies. That we don't end up with a game that's as wide as an ocean but as deep as a puddle(like DAI n ME1 or Elite Dangerous with its empty, souless, ridiculously huge procedurally generated galaxy with a ****-zillion systems/stars etc was). That'd be a regressive move.

[AdmiralBoneToPic]

So did I I find it strangely relaxing in between doing all the various missions a good way to wind down in ME2

 

Same here i liked the planet scanning in ME2 also. I found it relaxng, and world building with how every planet had its own bio/history & scientific numbers for one to read and a nice break from the action. Plus the galaxy map/uncharted worlds theme to accompany...lovely jubbly.

[Pistolized]

Uncharted worlds from ME1 and planet scanning from ME2/3 were fine, the FIRST time.  The third through sixth times were devastating.  I don't have a perfect solution, but they still need to keep this sort of thing.  If they just had more... 'interesting stuff' in each of them.  ME1 had those little text box tidbits you could find and ME2/3 had... well the same tidbits but in a different way.  Awesome landscapes and architecture can be a reward for exploration, but preferably there will be more.  And even the planet descriptions were cool.

 

They did it in ME1, with notes and diaries left to explain the back story of the area you were in.  That was very important.  It reminds me of "The Last Of Us" which was a very linear game, but every new area you entered was still somehow exploratory.  You would see the clutter and items in a long-abandoned place and be able to glean what had happened there.  But it was very compact and it was rarely dull or repetitive.

 

So basically what I'm trying to say is:  Dear Bioware, we need you to take all good aspects imaginable and put them into the game, and take all bad aspects imaginable out.  Oh, and if you could also do more of it, faster and cheaper, that would be great.

[Exaltation]

Something like Elite Dangerous or No Man's Sky would be awesome.

[Golden_Persona]

I came here to confess my love to fire tornadoes and giant flying alien lifeforms. Their existence alone tells me that yes, exploration will be better.

 

It honestly couldn't get much worse than ME1.

[Golden_Persona]

To actually submit a worthwhile post to this discussion, the leak actually gives me some hope in this regard. Remnant vaults sounds like it could provide a good gameplay challenge (just do it better than Destiny's horde mode). ME2 constantly added extra elements to its fights that made each one unique. If you do Samara's mission then if you are a biotic you can use the red sand to your advantage, but if you weren't it was about choosing your cover carefully to not be poisoned. Tali's recruitment mission made it so you had to avoid sunlight if you wanted your shields up. They never felt like gimmicks either because they weren't the focus, they were a supplementary challenge blended superbly well into the main task at hand. I think each Remnant vault could work the same way, each with their own unique challenge and each one upping the difficulty with new enemy types.

 

For the Khet outposts, if they indeed are our main foe in this game, each outpost should be handled the same way previous ME games handled their side content (mainly the loyalty missions in ME2 and missions like the Grissom Academy mission in ME3). Each outpost has it's own unique layout, each one with a boss who gets cutscenes portraying his or her character, including interaction with our MCs to make it clear neither one is good or evil, we each just have our own needs to worry about. Avoid the planet of hats trope by making each Khet boss unique as well, with their own beliefs. Each band of Khet that guard each outpost should also have their own personality and culture. These missions could also be connected by smaller objectives. In order to properly raid a Khet outpost you have to survey the landscape to find points of interest, you have to take out smaller camps of Khet scattered all over the planet. Maybe if you're an infiltrator you get a special mission where you can actually infiltrate the Khet outpost, using you cloak strategically, to do recon.

 

Then you can have the typical resource scanning, and finding places for where colonies are viable. It's a balance between eliminating the Khet, and finding a new home for your kind. All of the side missions you do should connect together for one grand goal so that when you do everything on a planet it all felt like it had a purpose. I also wouldn't mind it if there were optional quests pertaining to the different lifeforms like the flying creature in the trailer. Imagine a mission where you have to tail the flying creature in the Mako without getting its attention so it leads you to its lair. Then you wait for it to leave the lair so that you can kill all of its smaller spawns in battle and destroy the nest (if you don't then potentially another flying creature could spawn after a certain amount of time if you kill the first one). Then it's about actually killing the thing if you feel it necessary. Each "surveillance" mission on the monster will reveal its hunting patterns (ie reveal what kind of attacks it'll perform on you when you face it down) as well as make the creature feel like a living thing. I'd love it if planets could actually feel like an active ecosystem. Being able to witness one alien life form hunting down a smaller life form would be cool. All of this could feel like an extension of the dragons in Inquisition, and the monster hunting quests in Witcher 3.

 

The problem with Inquisition wasn't the world design imo, it was the fact that none of the side missions outside companion quests felt connected. You're doing pointless busywork like planting flowers at a grave or finding a ring which have absolutely no impact on the fate of the Inquisition. In reality the Inquisitor should be back home in their fort ordering forces around or going on missions of extremely high importance (like all the fantastic story missions, or the capturing of enemy keeps Bioware for some reason decided to dial down). Inquisition needed to keep the keeps as important and consistent side content with weight on the fate of the Inquisition. It needed more missions like freeing those fortes from the undead. More quests like freeing Inquisition soldiers from the Avaar. Those were great, but too few. Being the pathfinder, and not a figurehead, in ME:A is the first step in the right direction at least.

 

I think my expectations are a little too much though. I really just hope there is a solid reason that I can feel while playing the game, for why they decided to bring back exploration. If it's implemented like ME1 or Inquisition I think we might be in trouble (although the story and characters would still rescue the game from my condemnation. I still love Inquisition to death because I know how to properly limit the side content I do, but I shouldn't have to plan a route like I'm a speedrunner to avoid that stuff).

[Disolus]

As long as it's a departure from ME3's linear action levels, I'll take anything. Even if it is text boxes. Hoping for something more, though.

[Golden_Persona]

But- I liked scanning planets. ;_;

 

See, this is why I love people. Take a boring game mechanic and actually turn it into something beautiful like this. Getting the most enjoyment out of even the most redundant.

[Golden_Persona]

I liked the trailer in the beginning, but a feeling of dread occured as soon as it focused to the character with a gun shooting and stabbing things.

That seems a bit odd. Shooting, stabbing, shocking, freezing, flaying, de-massing, throwing, pulling, lifting, biotic exploding has been a part of the series since ME1. ME needs its combat as much as it needs good companions, a good story, and an interesting world. I would actually be worried if they didn't show that. The trailer showed off everything about the game without revealing anything. We get the planet surfing to show us how creative they are going with the worlds. They show us the Mako and how fast and smooth it will drive. They have giant robotic towers of unknown origin rising out of the ground to show us the return of foreign, exotic alien technology. Then the trailer ends with about 5 seconds of a fire fight giving us a silhouette of a new species. The fighting doesn't even take up the majority of the trailer, so I think we're safe in that regard . Combat has always been a core element.

[Booth]

I see only one possibility to create a NEW exploration feeling which is not the typical "horse riding" or "running around" over very few square kilometers which they call "world": Make it HUGE, make it rather empty (in terms of things to find) and make the mako REALLY FAST. The old mako in ME1 was as fast as a horse in a mediaeval setting. WTF?!

 

And do NOT build a stupid climb simulator in there... cause its just ridiculous - in terms of fast, action-oriented gameplay AND world consistence (no tank driver would climb over mountains... you would drive around and explore mountain areas with another vehicle/tool).

 

Bioware said (when I remember correctly) they would take advice by the colleagues who develop need for speed. Please DO so. In a scifi-setting you have scanners, airplanes, etc etc. I dont want to explore a "world" of a size that is as large as a medium farm in australia

 

Give me WORLDS... so LOTS (in best case thousands and more) of square kilometers to drive with FAAAAAST speed (roughly 100 - 1000 mph). Or leave this kind of "exploration" to medieavel RPGs.

 

To remember: Our earth is ONE world - it has about 500 mio square kilometers surface (including water - without water surface its about 150 mio square kilometers). MILLIONS!

[AdmiralBoneToPic]

Something like Elite Dangerous or No Man's Sky would be awesome.

 

Im not sure about that. I mean both games have a huge scope, i admire how David Braben n co managed to realise such a huge world, the scope is stunning. But having said that it becomes obvious quickly that the huge scale comes at the cost of detail, livliness & worthhile things to actually explore, its a much of muchness if you will. All very samey, simple & shallow. Its like we've a bajillion worlds...ok cool now what?. Its the same with No Man's Sky(though tbh we dont really know that much about it. Though i think its pretty telling that the devs are pretty cagey with regards to answering the question: what do you actually do in the game?. Outside of some vague notion of exploration theyve no answer. Again from what they've shown the planets look very samey to).

 

Both games have huge worlds, but not enough content to justify them. Its too much for too little really. Unless Bioware can pull off something extremely difficult to do in game design, then thats something ME:A needs to avoid.

[Booth]

Both games have huge worlds, but not enough content to justify them.

 

For me its a rather simple calculation (well - ok - maybe in detail not that simple ). You create some worlds and have a clear number of how big it is. Then adjust the vehicles speed to let the player not do more than... well... lets say 20 hours of exploration if he finds many of the stuff placed in there. But... let the speed of the mako be really FAST in terms of sci-fi-like.

 

I see the same problem or risk: They could create a world too large for the exploration speed. But in my optinion it should be clearly a matter of speed, size and amount of POIs (=points of interest) and suitable balance between those things.

[We'll bang okay]

I don't think that Han was referring to environment details.

I know, but dai didn't really have that great of environment details also