89 réponses à ce sujet

[DaemionMoadrin]

Actually, now that I think about it... Pillars of Eternity has a very good reputation system.

 

http://pillarsofeter...com/Disposition

[DarthSliver]

I enjoy RPGs a lot. I enjoy them even more when there's no set-in-stone karma status or black-and-white choices. ME had problems with this; most Paragon decisions made Shepard a godly caring hero, most Renegade decisions made Shep a flamboyant douchebag. I'd love to see the ParEnegade system gone, with no karma system in place telling us how good or evil our character is. I want US to decide how we play our character. In addition, more grey choices would be amazing, or just outright neutrality.

 

I never really mind the system just as long as its not like ME2. I felt like I had to go full paragon or full renegade just to keep the loyalty of both Miranda and Jack or Tali and Legion. 

[Shaftell]

I'm all up for it. This morality bar is very old school. It was good for its time, but let's give the player a bit more agency. I felt like my decisions were impacted because I always chose a certain option depending on the character I was playing

[Fantastic Fantasy]

I did not like how unclear it was, or why some options were renegade even though they shouldn't be. I still don't know why choosing to stab Kai Leng when he got back up is a renegade action. He deserved it. Even when I try an all paragon path I still stab that fool, it makes no sense.

 

They definitely need to work on it, I wouldn't mind if it was gone for something that isn't so black and white(but keep the interrupts in some way, I like them).

[LoRD KYRaN]

I would like to see the systems returned but improved upon. I think the morality/reputation idea is a good one. Though, there needs to be some refinement on what P/R actually is.

 

Personally, I view them more as approaches and intent. You can do the right thing in both, it's just how you get it done or why you do it. For example, in a save a hostage mission, a paragon could prioritise saving the hostage cos each live matters whereas a renegade could prioritise killing the criminal cos it's more important to get rid of the bad guys. Or they could both save the hostage. The paragon could do it diplomatically and nicely while the renegade could threaten the person. Or they could both kill the criminal and hostage. The paragon for the greater good, the renegade cos he doesn't negotiate with terrorists.

 

Admittedly, many options and tones would make it harder to apply. Hopefully it can be done. Plus, I like the tonal cues. Whatever is said and done, you can't read a persons body language from the game. Neither can you tell from plain text what sort of tone or line your response is going to be. A simple "Sure" can mean many different things based on how you say it. That's why the tonal cues the game presents are important to me.

[rapscallioness]

Yeah, I'd be cool with them ditching that system. And, tbh, I did not care for the seemingly constant rolling credits of approve/disapprove after everything I said in DAI.

 

I liked DA2 personality system a great deal. However, I did not like when it went auto dialogue and based your tone off of the personality you've been using. Not every situation calls for me being a jerk. Disrespecting bandits, yes. Talking to a companion, well, usually no. But that was the only thing I did not like about that system.

 

But the moral dilemmas are not quite the same as the P/R system and how you may approach a choice. I would like to see BW make more ambiguous moral choices available in general. Where you make the best decision you can with the information you have.  And have choices about the PC's personality, and how they react to a situation, or characters.

[Celtic Latino]

My main thing with the paragon/renegade system is that everyone seems to remain neutral no matter how Shepard acts. Nobody seems to notice if you're a saint, tough guy/girl or prone to bat-crazy switch morality.

If the paragon/renegade system would give some sort of reputation I'd be more for it. I also missed the more neutral tones you could take in ME1.

Maybe take a cue from Pillars of Eternity/Alpha Protocol and have your choices factor into a personality reputation. The more points you score in personality, as well as your general choices, lead to its own reputation or alignment as opposed to blue pill/red pill. I'd like to see these things lead to positive AND negative consequences instead of different proceeding/equal outcome

Example:
01. Someone who's always compassionate/takes the top option has a reputation for being friendly and heroic. Civilians may open up more and be more willing to help but cartels/mercs don't take you seriously.

02. Someone who is rough around the edges with responses but leans towards lawful/doing right in the end would be treated as a Batman figure. Equally feared and resented by mercs and criminals though both lawful C-Sec types and powerful crime bosses may resent you and even find ways to spread propaganda/halt your progress.

03. Someone who's very persuasive but tends to do things for profit would fall in well with crime bosses willing to negotiate/cut a deal. Would be chosen for more diplomatic missions but considered untrustworthy. Would also work for a character who tends to be very unbiased/neutral.

04. A hardcore violent renegade would be considered very untrustworthy, even to the point of Alliance/C-Sec unwilling to help or side against you. Some companions may leave due to disgust at your actions.

And so forth. Same with how you treat aliens and different factions as opposed to simple good and antihero.

[TheN7Penguin]

Renegade ftw. Less red eyes, more one-liners. That is necessary.

[TehMonkeyMan]

What about a reputation system instead?

[MstrJedi Kyle]

Instead of a Karma system, how about a faction system similar to Fallout New Vegas? That way the people you hate will hate you and the people you support will think you're the bee's knees.

[SagaX]

Bioware, dont listen this guy. KEEP PARAGON/RENEGADE SYSTEM and improve it.
I love making good or bad guy choices, and thats one of ME's core ideas.
Just give them a choice like ME3 if they dont care for choices.

[BabyPuncher]

People are deluded if they think that removing the karma system is going to mean the story will no longer 'tell' the player what's right and wrong.

 

Stories have been 'telling' the audience what right and wrong is since time immemorial just fine without karma systems.

[Sylvius the Mad]

People are deluded if they think that removing the karma system is going to mean the story will no longer 'tell' the player what's right and wrong.

 

Stories have been 'telling' the audience what right and wrong is since time immemorial just fine without karma systems.

Even if there is a karma system, and even if it has some meter that explicitly displays the value, I expect I'll ignore it.

[The Twilight God]

It wasn't an issue in ME2 and 3 because of the imports, but the problem I had with ME1 was seeing a choice and being unable to choose it. In a game marketed around giving the player choices it seemed counter productive to limit that choice by an arbitrary artifice. Especially when you need to pick R/P options to raise them further. So if you can't choose a renegade option you're unable to gain renegade points. Which leads to not being able to pick the next renegade option. It is a poorly conceived system. If it was like it is in SWTOR I'd be fine.

But we know they are going to keep the system. With that being said, if it were so that we were still able to pick all the options, but it doesn't necessarily equal instant win outcome just because you picked Red or Blue I'd be fine. I just like the option to be the douche or the saint. Even if I don't get the outcome I wanted because I didn't have enough reputation.

[Ahriman]

ME persuasion was bad, DAI persuasion was bad, but at least ME colour options were fun enough.

I think separate dialogue skills are awful, but it's best of what known gamedesign has to offer. At least it makes player pay with combat (or other) efficiency for these "win dialogue" buttons. On other hand it's Bioware, they'll never put thousands of players in situation where you want better dialogue options, but you really need these skillpoints somewhere else.

People are deluded if they think that removing the karma system is going to mean the story will no longer 'tell' the player what's right and wrong.

 

Stories have been 'telling' the audience what right and wrong is since time immemorial just fine without karma systems.

Even if you hide from R/P, Shepard will always be there, judging you.