1395 réponses à ce sujet

[Maniccc]

This is not a case of absence of evidence being used as evidence of absence. All reapers are destroyed with the destroy option. The energy that destroys the reapers is confined to the working mass relays which are confined to the galaxy. 

Your first sentence is contradicted by your third sentence "working mass relays which are confined to the [Milky Way] galaxy").  Furthermore, your second sentence makes assumptions about the range of the explosion.  All we know is that all the Reapers in the Milky Way galaxy are affected.  Anything else is assumption on your part.  

 

So, sorry, it is a case of using lack of evidence as evidence.  Any assumption about Reapers and other galaxies has to involve this, because the original story never considered the Reapers on other galaxies, therefore, as I said, no evidence could have been provided.  In fact, this entire question only arises because of the continued ineptitude of the writers.  Anything we (Council Races, etc.) can do, the Reapers can definitely do better, at least insofar as technology is concerned.  Therefore it is impossible to wave away the elephant in the room:  if we can go to Andromeda, surely the Reapers could?  Surely they would in the name of their fervent goal?

 

Strictly speaking from an evidentiary point of view, it makes more sense to find Reapers throughout the universe than not to find them throughout the universe.  The ME writers have only opened a whole other can of worms, but they will most likely completely ignore it, because they can't write for squat.

[Maniccc]

Ah dark energy, the thing invented to make scientific models hold with observational eviendence, but no one really knows what it is or what to do with it.

 

Dark energy being defined is perhaps the biggest handwave of them all, but that would be unfair to the actually production of this dark energy: just plus some C batteries to some proton-less matter, and you're all set !

That's what science fiction does.  It tries to use scientific ideas/theories and plays with them to think about what could be if this was true, or if certain things worked in certain ways.

[GaroTD]

Maybe let's just wait until we will actually know how they got there and *then* potentially throw it under the bus? 

[In Exile]

If they haven't had Reapers harvesting them every few fifty thousand years or so, they'll be in a position to do something about it too.

As in, they'll be way more advanced than even the Reapers

Yes, because the reapers absolutely have to be the pinnacle of all technology or the series breaks down into incomprehensible gibberish. Absolutely nothing existed apart from the Leviathan anywhere in the universe, and the reapers still couldn't perfect shoddy technology like the Crucible because reasons.

This is why, for example, 1950s America - far more technically advanced than medieval Syria - could easily reproduce Damascus Steel. Everyone knows generally being more technically advanced in one or most areas automatically and necessarily means being more advanced in every area without exception.

[Iakus]

Yes, because the reapers absolutely have to be the pinnacle of all technology or the series breaks down into incomprehensible gibberish. Absolutely nothing existed apart from the Leviathan anywhere in the universe, and the reapers still couldn't perfect shoddy technology like the Crucible because reasons.

This is why, for example, 1950s America - far more technically advanced than medieval Syria - could easily reproduce Damascus Steel. Everyone knows generally being more technically advanced in one or most areas automatically and necessarily means being more advanced in every area without exception.

What is it with you and Damascus steel?

 

The Reapers are not the pinnacle of technology.  What I'm saying is the Milky Way has been hobbled by the Reapers for a billion years.  They get cut down once they reach a certain point technologically speaking.  And even their development to that point is along the lines the Reapers dictate.

 

A galaxy without the cycles would be free to continue growing and developing for a billion years longer than us, and along many different paths.  Such a galaxy would be far more advanced and far more diverse than what the Milky Way has.  And we will have a lot of catching up to do to reach that point ourselves.

[UrdnotJuevos2.0]

People are gonna complain no matter what. What is funny to me is people getting all worked up over speculations. They ha e no idea what the game will really turn out to be like

I loved all 3 ME games. Have all the DLCs from every game. I am looking forward to the next one. I hope we get a new protagonist and tons of new alien lifeforms. I wouldnt mind if none of the previous alien races were not included in MEA. I wouldn't mind if this series has absolutely nothing to do with the Sheppard saga, but I won't complain if they somehow involve the older characters and races

[dragonflight288]

Actually, it would take the Reapers more than two centuries to reach Andromeda.  And they are far, far more advanced than we are.  

 

*shrug*

 

Okay. 

 

Just beat ME1 today and based on what Vigil says and how all the Reapers power on at the end of ME2, I don't think they travel to Andromeda so much as they conserve power in darkspace.

 

So I was wrong and misread an earlier post, but that does not remove the point of my post that our technology in-game has likely advanced far beyond and above what Shepard had access to simply because it's been so long since Shepard fought the Reapers. 

[dragonflight288]

Yes, because the reapers absolutely have to be the pinnacle of all technology or the series breaks down into incomprehensible gibberish. Absolutely nothing existed apart from the Leviathan anywhere in the universe, and the reapers still couldn't perfect shoddy technology like the Crucible because reasons.
 

 

There's also a nice bit of dialogue from Legion that I think gets overlooked.

 

The path to advancing in technology is just as important as the destination. 

 

The Reapers are the pinnacle of technology for mass effect fields and drives, or at least they believe they are the pinnacle because they've never had to adapt and advance on their own. They allow the societies of the galaxy to evolve technologically a certain way, and follow the paths they desire, which is why they leave the Mass Relays and have the Keepers maintain the Citadel so the various cycles use the technology without fully understanding it. 

 

Without the Reapers and with the relays damaged, the races of the galaxy start developing on their own without the need to rely on those who came before.

 

It's not impossible that, after centuries, which has been confirmed, that they would not have developed in such a way that traveling to Andromeda is impossible.

 

I don't know how Bioware plans to get us there, but so long as the reason is something that I can buy considering this, I don't think it'll be a major hurdle.

[Iakus]

*shrug*

 

Okay. 

 

Just beat ME1 today and based on what Vigil says and how all the Reapers power on at the end of ME2, I don't think they travel to Andromeda so much as they conserve power in darkspace.

 

So I was wrong and misread an earlier post, but that does not remove the point of my post that our technology in-game has likely advanced far beyond and above what Shepard had access to simply because it's been so long since Shepard fought the Reapers. 

They may indeed hibernate.  Or at least some of them.

 

But assuming the voyage is doable, then it is logical to assume they did do so at some point in the past, and set up their own cycles and relay network there.  And perhaps other galaxies as well.

 

For all we know, every galaxy in the local cluster could have its own brood of Reapers maintaining cycles of destruction.

 

That is the question attached to getting to Andromeda:  if it's possible, especially with technology just a few years advanced from the current state, then why not the Reapers?  Why would they not want other galaxies to serve as experiments in finding their "solution"?

[Amplitudelol]

I think its great direction for ME. Reaper technology is all over freaking place in the end of ME3, so maybe they used it to travel to Andromeda (i mean this would take them like couple thousand years, but still). It actually would make sense. We will again have that mysterious feel from ME1 when exploring new galaxy. That's the easiest way to show what happened after ME3, becouse they don't have to actually "show" it now. They can just say what happened in Milky Way after reaper war. So everyone will get different outcome, depending what endind did they choose. At least if BW won't **** things up.

 

The people in Andromeda had to start off before the end of the reaper war otherwise they would be subject to the choice of Shepard. The point of Andromeda is to sweep the star child and its solutions - the ending intended to be the ultimate end of ME - under the carpet, you wont get memos.

[GaroTD]

The people in Andromeda had to start off before the end of the reaper war otherwise they would be subject to the choice of Shepard. The point of Andromeda is to sweep the star child and its solutions - the ending intended to be the ultimate end of ME - under the carpet, you wont get memos.

I think...it's unlikely. It can't be *that* hard to deal with choices they gave us at the end of ME3. They claim to have started working on MEA since ME3 was released. So i think they don't just deny what happened in ME3. They have much greater support in plot if they decide to make it after endings. I think.

[Iakus]

I think...it's unlikely. It can't be *that* hard to deal with choices they gave us at the end of ME3. They claim to have started working on MEA since ME3 was released. So i think they don't just deny what happened in ME3. They have much greater support in plot if they decide to make it after endings. I think.

They, they claim. I'm finding less and less reason to trust a word Bioware says anymore

 

But given the choices in ME3 could potentially leave the Milky Way and all its infrastructure totally frakked up, have Reapers still around, or even mess up everyone's DNA, the endings could potentially affect Andromeda if the characters lived in the MW beforehand.

 

Heh, just had a thought, what if Andromeda is set so far in the future that how humans got there is no longer remembered?  The tech is gone, the history forgotten due to some ages-old cataclysm?

 

The ultimate handwave 

[GaroTD]

I think that this game will be set soo far into the future, that our choices will result in similar way. You choose destoy? Now everything is rebuild and we are really advanced due to reaper technoogy. Control? Now everything is rebuild and we are really advanced due to reaper technology. And we have these ancient machines to protect us. Synthesis? Now everything is rebuild and we are really advanced due to reaper technology. And we have these ancient machines to protect us. And we are green. Yea, why not this way? 

[jak11164]

Why are people so keen to dismiss MEA so early on? It it because of DAI(a completely different kind of game), or are they still sore over an ending to a game that came out 3 years ago. It just doesn't make sense. People should just grow up, let go of past slights & give this brand new game in a much beloved franchise a break.

First I have to say that ME was kind of revelation for me. I really love climate, mystery, plot, romance, gameplay. from the first part of the trilogy.  But, this is my opinion, from game to game BE was "lowering the bar" games were  less and less sophisticated and had much more primitive scenario. Its like in first game you get plate from 3 Michelin star master chef, second ordinary Chinese sweet&sour pork, third just hamburger with fries. Eatable yes, but tasty?

They seemed to, just exploit great invention of ME universe, just to earn easy money from players.

Second. At the end they deliberately destroyed that universe leaving so many unresolved threads that any next continuation seemed implausible. It is their franchise they have right to do with it whatever they want. I hate it but I have to admit it. And after 3 years they seem to be short in money and they think how to revive the series. Milky Way is all screwed up due to 3 endings so they think "go Andromeda it is far away". Well due to ME lore it is not that far. It is not far enough to go over ME3 inconsistency. 

Three is observation of the SciFi movies and game market.... I have that sad feeling that; all good movies and games are already done. I go to the market and I do not see game I want to buy. There are almost only games with increasing number behind main title. I go to cinema to see new  production and come back disappointed. PPl seem to exploit same stories over and over. I don't know maybe whole entertainment industry  suffers  a plague of infertility.  I want raw meat with chili and I get warm pancake.

Thats why I really have low expectations to ME:A. I wish it to be great, but sadly I think, it is just wishful thinking.

We live and see, then buy it or not

[phagus]

I cut the quote to address just thse parts. I don't see the Eagles question as having to do with suspension of disbelief. That would be the idea that there are even giant Eagles in the first place. It would be a plot hole if the story never addressed why they can't just ride them.

 

I like your enthusiasm answering replies to answers to someone else's replies. I was replying to Gothfather, (who in turn was replying to my reply to In Exile), who said that my use of the LOTR Eagles as a plot hole wasn't actually a plot hole, (and went on to explain in detail why it wasn't one) when I was clearly using it as an example of suspension of disbelief, which was evident by what I said before and after, which had been snipped. Now I hope that is clear now.

 

In reply to your other points:

 

In a fantasy setting like LOTR, with all manner of giant creatures including spiders, not suspending your disbelief for giant eagles is not likely to occur. Unless you think putting Giant Eagles in a fantasy setting would just be too unbelievable. And (to answer another question that hasn't been asked yet). Yes, I agree, it would be a plot hole if the story never addressed why they were unrideable.

 

I am now wishing that J. R. R. Tolkien had never wrote about Eagles giant or otherwise, so that I would never have thought to use them in a thread about ME:A, as an example of suspension of disbelief .

[Eryri]

I think another problem with the move to Andromeda is the reduction in stakes. We've gone from deciding the fate of entire species to worrying about the fate of a colony of, at a guess, a few thousand people? We ended up killing more people than that during Arrival. I know that not every story needs to be about saving the universe, and perhaps if the new characters are well written we'll become emotionally invested in their fates, but it really doesn't help me get excited. Particularly when any problems or conflict that this colony has could be solved by just packing up and going home to the MW - assuming they can of course.

Which brings me back to the issue of how and why we are there, and when.
If the "Ark" leaves during the Reaper war, before the RGB choice, then the colonists have a sensible motive to go - their species' survival (and the meta motive of allowing Bioware to avoid the possibility of green circuits on everyone). But they don't have a lore-friendly means of going. They don't have drives capable of making the journey without the static build up problem, and all the galaxy's resources, and best and brightest scientists, are tied up on the Crucible project.
However, if the expedition leaves hundreds of years later, they may plausibly have better drives, but they no longer have a plausible motive. The Milky Way is still vast and largely unexplored, so why schlep all the way to Andromeda and risk meeting something more advanced and aggressive than the Reapers? Plus the RGB choice would need to hand waved away.

So, both possibilities have issues. All in all, I'll need a lot of convincing to get behind this.

[Sifr]

Except that Shepard is clearly seen burning up when entering the atmosphere of Alchera, Shepard's body would have been burnt to a crisp with nothing to rebuild his/her body with. Not to mention how Shepard memory's being intact after his/her brain was dead for about two years is extremely absurd. Bioware didn't even try to explain how LP worked they just said it was "advance tech" and "resources".

 

Well, we see Shepard's body start to hit the atmosphere, we never see them actually burning up.

 

It's possible that the kinetic shields in their armour bore the brunt of the heat, even if it did cook Shepard's body into a state where the comics note it's hard to recall what gender they once were, as well as a state described as Jacob as being "meat and tubes".

 

As for the freefall, it's also possible that like the Mako, the suits have some kind mass-effect field generator in place to allow marines to slow their descent while performing mid-air combat drops, such as like the start of ME1 when Nihlus and the Eden Prime ground team both do such a feat from the Normandy while it's still in mid-air. Alchera also has far less gravity than Earth (0.85g) which means that terminal velocity would be lower, especially if the planet has a more dense atmosphere.

 

The hardsuit itself is probably kept the body from bursting like a balloon when it hit the ground, even if the impact did shatter most of the bones in Shepard's body (as seen via the X-Rays at the start of ME2), which is part of the reason their skeletal structure needed to be reinforced as much as it did.

 

With the extreme cold on the planet as well (-22 Celsius), Shepard would have remained fairly well preserved until recovery by Cerberus.

[Drone223]

Well, we see Shepard's body start to hit the atmosphere, we never see them actually burning up.

 

It's possible that the kinetic shields in their armour bore the brunt of the heat, even if it did cook Shepard's body into a state where the comics note it's hard to recall what gender they once were, as well as a state described as Jacob as being "meat and tubes".

 

That's not how kinetic barrier's work, they are designed to protect against high velocity projects they're useless against extreme temperatures.

 

"The shielding afforded by kinetic barriers does not protect against extremes of temperature, toxins, or radiation."

 

There is no way that Shepard's body would survive re-entry, the only left of Shepards body should be ash.

 

 

 

As for the freefall, it's also possible that like the Mako, the suits have some kind mass-effect field generator in place to allow marines to slow their descent while performing mid-air combat drops, such as like the start of ME1 when Nihlus and the Eden Prime ground team both do such a feat from the Normandy while it's still in mid-air. Alchera also has far less gravity than Earth (0.85g) which means that terminal velocity would be lower, especially if the planet has a more dense atmosphere.

 

Except there is no such technology built into the suit, if there was it would have been brought up in the codex entry.

 

The hardsuit itself is probably kept the body from bursting like a balloon when it hit the ground, even if the impact did shatter most of the bones in Shepard's body (as seen via the X-Rays at the start of ME2), which is part of the reason their skeletal structure needed to be reinforced as much as it did.

 

Shepard suit was ruptured at the start of ME2 the damage caused from the high temperatures of re-entry would have destroyed the suits systems.The suit also isn't designed to protect the body from the damaged caused from high impact falls.

[Dantriges]

So who is this guy we played in two games?

[In Exile]

What is it with you and Damascus steel?

 

The Reapers are not the pinnacle of technology.  What I'm saying is the Milky Way has been hobbled by the Reapers for a billion years.  They get cut down once they reach a certain point technologically speaking.  And even their development to that point is along the lines the Reapers dictate.

 

A galaxy without the cycles would be free to continue growing and developing for a billion years longer than us, and along many different paths.  Such a galaxy would be far more advanced and far more diverse than what the Milky Way has.  And we will have a lot of catching up to do to reach that point ourselves.

 

Damascus steel is a great example of the irregulatory of technological progress, and how talking about one society being more "advanced" than another is a bit too general when it comes to any particular type of technology. In our terms, Damascus steel is a brilliant achievement in mettalurgy that involves, among other things, nanowire and carbon nanotubes. Of course, this wasn't - at the time - expressed as creating nanowire and nanotubes, but the ultimate achievement was there. So the fact that Precursor Civilization #2,845b has created a form of intergalactic travel device doesn't mean that they had to be more advanced than, say, the Reapers or the Leviathans in any other technological way. Put differently, there's no reason to think that just because Society A is "more advanced" in general than Society B that Society A is more advanced in every area possible than Society B. 

 

Beyond that, there's another serious logic flaw. The universe, we suppose, has existed for billions upon billions of years.  And yet - as far as we know - we are the single most advanced race in existence, apart from crazy conspiracy theorists, and all of our methods of propulsion revolve around burning old dinosaur corpses. There's absolutely no reason why other races would be more advanced. In fact, there's no reason why other civilizations in Andromeda even be as advanced. 

 

Let's use a single example: Earth. A billion years of life, and all we've got to show for it is a solely terrestial based race that might very well kill itself off through atomic weapons before even making it to the stars, if that thing were even possible. 

 

Now, you'll say, IRL is different: ME has multiple races, and they can all become spacefaring. Sure; but look at how that worked out for humanity. It was barely possible for us to get to Mars before we discovered the Prothean tech, which was all based on reaper technology. How long would it have taken humanity to build Mass Relays? A hundred thousand years? Two hundred? And even if that happened, there's no guarantee all these spacefaring races wouldn't just genocide the **** out of each other anyway. Look at how long it takes each race - 50,000 years - just to spread enough to even count by reaper standards. 

 

So, no, there's no reason to accept any of the assumptions you set out. 

[AlanC9]

Damascus steel is a great example of the irregulatory of technological progress, and how talking about one society being more "advanced" than another is a bit too general when it comes to any particular type of technology. In our terms, Damascus steel is a brilliant achievement in mettalurgy that involves, among other things, nanowire and carbon nanotubes. Of course, this wasn't - at the time - expressed as creating nanowire and nanotubes, but the ultimate achievement was there. So the fact that Precursor Civilization #2,845b has created a form of intergalactic travel device doesn't mean that they had to be more advanced than, say, the Reapers or the Leviathans in any other technological way. Put differently, there's no reason to think that just because Society A is "more advanced" in general than Society B that Society A is more advanced in every area possible than Society B. 

Though at some level of advancement, Society A can master anything that Society B has, if they find expending the effort worthwhile. Once we've mastered, for instance, nanowire and carbon nanotubes, re-creating Damascus steel, or going past it to something better, is merely a technical problem.

[In Exile]

Though at some level of advancement, Society A can master anything that Society B has, if they find expending the effort worthwhile. Once we've mastered, for instance, nanowire and carbon nanotubes, re-creating Damascus steel, or going past it to something better, is merely a technical problem.

 

That's a fair point, but then it becomes a bit of a practical question about whether or not we understand the conceptual underpinnings of some form of technology or not. My only point is that we can't infer from the fact of advancement a universal technical superiority. 

[God]

I don't know about throwing under the bus, but man, I really want to drive it. 

 

Drive it babe.

[Sartoz]

 Snip

 

Second. At the end they deliberately destroyed that universe leaving so many unresolved threads that any next continuation seemed implausible. It is their franchise they have right to do with it whatever they want. I hate it but I have to admit it. And after 3 years they seem to be short in money and they think how to revive the series. Milky Way is all screwed up due to 3 endings so they think "go Andromeda it is far away". Well due to ME lore it is not that far. It is not far enough to go over ME3 inconsistency. 

 

Snip

 

                                                                               <<<<<<<<<<0>>>>>>>>>>

 

Let me see...

2.  "... destroyed that universe..."

No such thing occured.  The Milky Way galaxy is alive and well.  Depending on the choice you made,

  1a. Destroy.

       The Reapers are destroyed along with the Relays, in which case galactic travel is now slowed downed to a crawl using primitive FTL drives,

        which, if I remember correctly, is about 15 light years/day.  Races survive and go on and the stars remain.

  1b. Control

        You control the Reapers. Galactic civilization continues, the galaxy continues to exist.

  1c. Synthesis

       This changes all life in the galaxy. But, the Relays survive and the stars are still there.

 

Shep dies, the trilogy ends with a fan base up in arms about how the end choices were presented, which, frankly, were pis* poor endings.  A fourth Mass Effect game could not possibly be played in the Milky Way because of the three different endings and the fact that many wanted Shep back.

 

The best reasonable approach is to leave the Milky Way galaxy behind and start anew.

 

I'm not sure what your expectations are regarding sci-fi games, but Star Citizen is the new Wing Commander coming out this fall.

 

 

 

 

 

[RepHope]

Because the last time they tried "Fight off a hostile race (Geth/Khet) and uncover the ancient secrets of a forgotten race (Protheans/Remnants)" it didn't end well. Seriously is Bioware incapable of writing a story that doesn't have an ancient evil awakening? All the talk of 100s of planets sounds cool but how meaningful will those be? Are we getting the "please fetch my ring o Holy Messenger Boy of FemJesus", "Thank You!", the end +10 Power, sidequests we got in DA:I? After Witcher 3 I can't stomach that pathetic bare bones sidequest structure.