1395 réponses à ce sujet

[RepHope]

This bothers me as well. Dragon Age II is the last time BioWare has attempted to deviate from this formula, and I think we can all acknowledge it wasn't the most successful of games, but I do hope they try something different with Andromeda.

Trying to deviate from the formula isn't a bad thing. The problem is when you attempt to deviate and half-ass it or in Bioware's case, have not nearly enough time to do anywhere near a decent job. I appreciate them trying to avoid an ancient evil awakens story, I appreciate them trying to do a Grey vs. Grey morality conflict, the problem is when it's not done WELL. If they had been given the same amount of time with DA2 as they got with DAI, I think it could've been very well done.

[Vapaa]

I'm not arguing with you about that, but it (and LP) shouldn't have existence in the narrative in the first place since both are just straight up space magic since they break peoples suspension of disbelief.

 
My SoB treated Asari reproduction, FTL travel and LP eaqually.

For synthesis...let's say I rushed to destroy in order to avoid myself brain meltdown
 

If it was rule of cool they wouldn't even bothered trying to explain eezo with the codex entries.

Technobabble is a trope for a reason, doesn't make it less BS.
 

The basic idea could have been handled better, with less "rule-of-cool", there is no "rule of cool" in the Eezo itself.

There is, it's the go-to material in ME: relays, FTL, biotics, air retaining fields...everywhere you look is mass effect fields. The concept of the "brand new element with limitless awesome applications" is the bread and butter of scifi and fantasy both.
 

Really, c is no limit at all to the writer's imagination.

Writer's imagination, that's the key word here, science never had any word in this.

[Drone223]

 
My SoB treated Aseri reproduction, FTL travel and LP eaqually.

People don't make a big deal out of those things because they are accepted as part of that particular universe.

 

Technobabble is a trope for a reason, doesn't make it less BS.

 

Its only BS if said technobabble is not consistent with the limitations set by the lore.

 

There is, it's the go-to material in ME: relays, FTL, biotics, air retaining fields...everywhere you look is mass effect fields. The concept of the "brand new element with limitless awesome applications" is the bread and butter of scifi and fantasy both.

 

 

Said element still needs to operate within the limits set by the lore.

 

Writer's imagination, that's the key word here, science never had any word in this.

 

Again consistency is still important in fiction.

[blahblahblah]

People don't make a big deal out of those things because they are accepted as part of that particular universe.
 

Its only BS if said technobabble is not consistent with the limitations set by the lore.
 

Said element still needs to operate within the limits set by the lore.
 

Again consistency is still important in fiction.

Lol, consistency your ass. Mass Effect is not that consistent.

[Mcfly616]

Lol, consistency your ass. Mass Effect is not that consistent.

 apparently,  it's hard for some to understand what's consistent within the lore =/= what's consistent in real life 

[blahblahblah]

apparently,  it's hard for some to understand what's consistent within the lore =/= what's consistent in real life

Meh, Cerberus having a gazillion of resources, the dark energy plot, the geth are once unique race of Network AIs turned into a pinocchio race in ME3, and unreliabilty of the codex entries. Some people are blind to the inconsistencies of ME lore and complaining about leaving the Milky Way as a cop-out.

[Vapaa]

People don't make a big deal out of those things because they are accepted as part of that particular universe.

 

Its only BS if said technobabble is not consistent with the limitations set by the lore.

 

Said element still needs to operate within the limits set by the lore.

 

Again consistency is still important in fiction.

 

I don't get how Projet Lazarus is inconsistent or in contradiction with a world with humans aging to 150 years, stasis chambers, lolwut immunology concepts and more generally biotechnological implants at every street corner.

 

The technobabble behind PL is not less believable than the rest, it's still loosely documented science magic and the fact that it's so costly in every single aspect makes it pass for a phenomenal achievement in universe not a contradiction of "established lore". The universe, any universe, has to progress technologically, and PL is for me the next natural step in a universe established to make extensive use of biotechnological implants.

[dreamgazer]

Lol, consistency your ass. Mass Effect is not that consistent.

It's getting harder and harder to argue this point. Hell, ME1 isn't even consistent within itself, and relies on a lot of contrivance.

Remember that time when Benezia kept a section of her mind free from indoctrination?

[Mcfly616]

Meh, Cerberus having a gazillion of resources, the dark energy plot, the geth are once unique race of Network AIs turned into a pinocchio race in ME3, and unreliabilty of the codex entries. Some people are blind to the inconsistencies of ME lore and complaining about leaving the Milky Way as a cop-out.

 Cerberus was funded by a plethora of pro-human backers for several decades time. Safe to say there's plenty of ridiculously rich humans out there.

 

The dark energy plot was nothing more than a half-baked idea left on the cutting room floor (nothing new in the gaming industry). Dark energy was mentioned a grand total of 7 times throughout the entirety of the trilogy (all contained to the glorified side-story of ME2). Maybe if it was actually fully realized and implemented you would've had a point. But even then, you still might not have one due to the fact that dark energy is a real thing and is thought to be the primary force behind the imminent collision of two galaxies. The Milky Way and Andromeda.

 

 

Networked AI's being influenced by an ancient armada of unfathomably advanced AI's ? Seems legit.

 

 

Certain codex entries are purposely inconsistent with what Shepard (and we, the player) have come to know.

 

On the contrary, running away from the setting you've created, avoiding the consequences of your actions and avoid acknowledging it ever happened....definitely a cop-out.

[jak11164]

                                                                               <<<<<<<<<<0>>>>>>>>>>

 

Let me see...

2.  "... destroyed that universe..."

No such thing occured.  The Milky Way galaxy is alive and well.  Depending on the choice you made,

  1a. Destroy.

       The Reapers are destroyed along with the Relays, in which case galactic travel is now slowed downed to a crawl using primitive FTL drives,

        which, if I remember correctly, is about 15 light years/day.  Races survive and go on and the stars remain.

  1b. Control

        You control the Reapers. Galactic civilization continues, the galaxy continues to exist.

  1c. Synthesis

       This changes all life in the galaxy. But, the Relays survive and the stars are still there.

 

Shep dies, the trilogy ends with a fan base up in arms about how the end choices were presented, which, frankly, were pis* poor endings.  A fourth Mass Effect game could not possibly be played in the Milky Way because of the three different endings and the fact that many wanted Shep back.

 

The best reasonable approach is to leave the Milky Way galaxy behind and start anew.

 

I'm not sure what your expectations are regarding sci-fi games, but Star Citizen is the new Wing Commander coming out this fall.

"destroyed universe" ofc i didn't meant that ME3 ending physically destroyed fabric of the universe. It destroyed "universum" -- franchise, lore of ME. there is practically no logic possibility to create one consistent game that would have logic cause or reference to co much damaged "universum"

why? here you go:

First -> We had 3 different endings that split fate of our galaxy so no simple continuation is possible.

Second ->  Reapers problem was not solved at all. It was solved locally, but reapers are, what we know about them, universal beings. From simple calculation of their probable lifespan and their FTL speed they could have travelled almost of the edges of visible universe(13 billion LY) local group of galaxies is just small backyard for them. If there is so, there are much more reapers lurking in dark spaces of the universe.

Third->  To solve our little problem (in scale of the universe Milky Way is just scrap of the dust) we just used one shot gun. There will be no second chance in any ending because if reapers come back they will be aware of that solution.

Bioware just dropped into their own pit. They wanted easy money with ME3 and used most ordinary, ugly, primitive, solution: take big, enormous gun and kill the villain. In fact big brother of the villain is standing behind the corner and they have empty hands. ouch time

[blahblahblah]

Cerberus was funded by a plethora of pro-human backers for several decades time. Safe to say there's plenty of ridiculously rich humans out there.
 
The dark energy plot was nothing more than a half-baked idea left on the cutting room floor (nothing new in the gaming industry). Dark energy was mentioned a grand total of 7 times throughout the entirety of the trilogy (all contained to the glorified side-story of ME2). Maybe if it was actually fully realized and implemented you would've had a point. But even then, you still might not have one due to the fact that dark energy is a real thing and is thought to be the primary force behind the imminent collision of two galaxies. The Milky Way and Andromeda.

 
Networked AI's being influenced by an ancient armada of unfathomably advanced AI's ? Seems legit.
 
 
Certain codex entries are purposely inconsistent with what Shepard (and we, the player) have come to know.
 
On the contrary, running away from the setting you've created, avoiding the consequences of your actions and avoid acknowledging it ever happened....definitely a cop-out.

It seems some people are content if Bioware will canonize a turd of an ending and polish them like its gold but seriously its still a turd.
 

[Drone223]

Meh, Cerberus having a gazillion of resources, the dark energy plot, the geth are once unique race of Network AIs turned into a pinocchio race in ME3, and unreliabilty of the codex entries. Some people are blind to the inconsistencies of ME lore and complaining about leaving the Milky Way as a cop-out.

People call out Bioware on those things as well which why people have the problem with Cerberus suddenly having a huge role from ME2 onwards. Not to mention some of the codex readings are deliberately miss leading and even acknowledge such mistakes e.g. The codex stated that the protheans built the relays in ME3 it acknowledges this error stating that they're actually built by the reapers.

 

 

I don't get how Projet Lazarus is inconsistent or in contradiction with a world with humans aging to 150 years, stasis chambers, lolwut immunology concepts and more generally biotechnological implants at every street corner.

 

The technobabble behind PL is not less believable than the rest, it's still loosely documented science magic and the fact that it's so costly in every single aspect makes it pass for a phenomenal achievement in universe not a contradiction of "established lore". The universe, any universe, has to progress technologically, and PL is for me the next natural step in a universe established to make extensive use of biotechnological implants.

The problem with LP is that it comes out of nowhere and has no build up/foreshadowing or explination what-so-ever, LP just happen the whole thing is just contrived.

[Vapaa]

The problem with LP is that it comes out of nowhere and has no build up/foreshadowing or explination what-so-ever, LP just happen the whole thing is just contrived.

 

Of course it comes out of nowhere: it's an ad hoc project at the very begining of the game, ME1 has no business foreshadowing PL, it's only relevant in case of Shepard's death.

 

It's like saying that Mass relays came out of nowhere in ME1, well yeah.

[Drone223]

Of course it comes out of nowhere: it's an ad hoc project at the very begining of the game, ME1 has no business foreshadowing PL, it's only relevant in case of Shepard's death.

It's like saying that Mass relays came out of nowhere in ME1, well yeah.

Not exactly at lot stuff in the first ME game was established in the novel revelation which was released before ME1. There's also the fact there is nothing to support the lore that supported LP in addition to the fact killing off Shepard at the start of ME2 was completely unnessary.

[Gothfather]

"destroyed universe" ofc i didn't meant that ME3 ending physically destroyed fabric of the universe. It destroyed "universum" -- franchise, lore of ME. there is practically no logic possibility to create one consistent game that would have logic cause or reference to co much damaged "universum"

why? here you go:

First -> We had 3 different endings that split fate of our galaxy so no simple continuation is possible.

Second ->  Reapers problem was not solved at all. It was solved locally, but reapers are, what we know about them, universal beings. From simple calculation of their probable lifespan and their FTL speed they could have travelled almost of the edges of visible universe(13 billion LY) local group of galaxies is just small backyard for them. If there is so, there are much more reapers lurking in dark spaces of the universe.

Third->  To solve our little problem (in scale of the universe Milky Way is just scrap of the dust) we just used one shot gun. There will be no second chance in any ending because if reapers come back they will be aware of that solution.

Bioware just dropped into their own pit. They wanted easy money with ME3 and used most ordinary, ugly, primitive, solution: take big, enormous gun and kill the villain. In fact big brother of the villain is standing behind the corner and they have empty hands. ouch time

 

No the reapers are solved. The catalysis said it is the the embodiment of all reaper intelligence. It also clearly states that the destroy option will kill ALL the reapers. The energy of the crucible is confined to the mass relay system within the galaxy. If all reapers die with destroy and all the energy is confined to the milky way then any ending will will end the reaper crisis. The only ending which is in doubt is the refusal ending but the epilogue of refusal has the reapers being defeated in the next cycle. The reapers are ended.

 

Please show me a single thread of evidence that the reapers are 'universal' beings. All the evidence I have seen shows that they are confined to the milky way or at worse confined to the milky way during the harvest, they all returned to the galaxy of their origin and all were destroyed, controlled or synthesised.

[Gothfather]

I don't even understand why Shepard's death was necessary... let alone the Lazarus project. Kill Shep, just to raise them from the dead 2 minutes later. The drama!

 

ME2 is favorite game of the bunch, but that's still the goofiest intro ever. 

 

Shepard is a messiah archetype. Even the name Shepard is a name/title used to describe Jesus, and the death and resurrection of Shepard is all part of that Archetype. It creates a mystique, a piece of the divine manifest in Shepard. Yes everything has technological reasons behind it but that actual method used isn't the key point. Shepard is also given 'visions,' prescience that warns us of danger & Shepard is ignored and rejected when he warns the galaxy and this too is a common religious theme.

 

I am not implying the ME was a religious title only that it took a Religious Archetype of the Messiah and used it to tell a non religious story. So the death of Shepard in ME2 actually makes a lot of sense when you are aware of the archetype they moulded Shepard on.

[jak11164]

I don't even understand why Shepard's death was necessary... let alone the Lazarus project. Kill Shep, just to raise them from the dead 2 minutes later. The drama!

 

ME2 is favorite game of the bunch, but that's still the goofiest intro ever. 

I do not understand why BW made so shallow ME3 plot leading to most primitive, ordinary and inconsistent ending? After final image I ask myself : That's it? oh really pft. Do all screenwriters suffer a plague of infertility?  Or they calculated average IQ of target players (gimbuses I think) and said that's enough for them?

[Gothfather]

Your first sentence is contradicted by your third sentence "working mass relays which are confined to the [Milky Way] galaxy").  Furthermore, your second sentence makes assumptions about the range of the explosion.  All we know is that all the Reapers in the Milky Way galaxy are affected.  Anything else is assumption on your part.  

 

So, sorry, it is a case of using lack of evidence as evidence.  Any assumption about Reapers and other galaxies has to involve this, because the original story never considered the Reapers on other galaxies, therefore, as I said, no evidence could have been provided.  In fact, this entire question only arises because of the continued ineptitude of the writers.  Anything we (Council Races, etc.) can do, the Reapers can definitely do better, at least insofar as technology is concerned.  Therefore it is impossible to wave away the elephant in the room:  if we can go to Andromeda, surely the Reapers could?  Surely they would in the name of their fervent goal?

 

Strictly speaking from an evidentiary point of view, it makes more sense to find Reapers throughout the universe than not to find them throughout the universe.  The ME writers have only opened a whole other can of worms, but they will most likely completely ignore it, because they can't write for squat.

 

The catalysts states ALL reapers are destroyed with the destroy option. If the crucible explosions could be extragalactic then they would not require mass relays. It would just explode and send the energy out but it uses the MASS RELAYS to blanket the galaxy that is what we see. If the energy is only within the milky way and all reapers die with the destroy option then the reapers are all within the galaxy. Its rather simple. All cats have four limbs. Snuffles is a cat. Therefore snuffles has four limbs. All reapers are destroyed. The energy is confined to the milky way. Therefore the reapers are all in the milky way.   

 

Speaking evidentiary? Show me ONE scrap of evidence that shows them anywhere but the milky way. the Dark space relay is twined with the citadel so even when they are hibernating they are tied to the milky way galaxy. There isn't a single piece of evidence that the reapers care about life beyond the milky way.

[AlleyD]

I don't even understand why Shepard's death was necessary... let alone the Lazarus project. Kill Shep, just to raise them from the dead 2 minutes later. The drama!

 

ME2 is favorite game of the bunch, but that's still the goofiest intro ever. 

 

The main reason I can think of for the LP is to reset the character's attributes (to make it easier for new players to enter the franchise), while still retaining the connection that ME1 players had already for the character.

[Mcfly616]

It seems some people are content if Bioware will canonize a turd of an ending and polish them like its gold but seriously its still a turd.
 

 yeah, I wouldn't know them.

[Mcfly616]

The symbolism is useless without any real actions that coincide with it.

 Not quite. Shepard has some experiences that mirror some major events in the bible/JC's life. Symbolism does not require one to walk the exact same path and embody the exact same teachings as those we are symbolizing. It takes an instance at most. The guy came back from the dead and sacrificed himself so that life in the galaxy can live on and coexist. Symbolic of a messiah.