1395 réponses à ce sujet

[jak11164]

to gothfather.  It is simple reapers exist at least 1 milion years. For beings like that and their travel capabilities our tiny slice of universe (local cluster of galaxies) is just scrap of the dust in a fabric of the universe. I do not see the reason why they stay inside "dark void of dark space" between galaxies if they could travel far beyond them.  In fact same problem of organic ws synthetic life will exist inside any galaxy and they should "go there to preserve the life". That is basic imperative of their existence it can not be limited to our galaxy. Or we say our galaxy is unique. If it is unique we may also say there is no life  in andromeda, and also, there is no life outside the earth. Game is having roots in conception of the universe perceived like 50 years ago before Ervin Hubble discovered that there is more than our little galaxy. And beyond it is "dark space".

That is just speculation.

[Sartoz]

 
 Snip

Technobabble is a trope for a reason, doesn't make it less BS.
 

Snip

 

Writer's imagination, that's the key word here, science never had any word in this.

 

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I guess "what's fiction today is science tomorrow" passed you by, somehow.

 

Many a fiction became reality as science "grew".

 

Surely, you remember 20K Leagues Under the sea?, 

The Mars stories written by Edgar Rice Burroughs starting in 1911?

the Rockets to the moon stories from the 20s to the 50s, until Sputnik arrived, followed by man landing on the moon in '69?

We now visited all the planets in the solar system, with New Horizon's flyby of Pluto who sent us  fantastic colour pictures?  = > http://www.hardocp.c...fMV8xX2wuanBn 

or that Arthur C. Clarke, a well known sci-fi writer, predicted communications satellites 60 years before it happened?

What about that famous invisibility cloak from Harry Potter? Looks like we now have one: http://www.escapistm...s-Not-Impressed

 

want to know more?

Ok,. How about the US navy testing laser weapons?

go here: http://www.theguardi...on-persian-gulf

 

For an overview of sci-fi from 1929 to 1939 that became true go

here: http://www.dailymail...ons-future.html

 

Besides, if science is the basis of you accepting a story why are you bothering playing a science/fantasy game?

[blahblahblah]

 yeah, I wouldn't know them.

I mean you.

[Gothfather]

/snip other conversations with other people

 

 

You're right that what the endings should have been doesn't effect Andromeda, but as someone who loves stories, I still like discussing it.

 

You're also right that they had no plan on how to finish it. However, I think totally abandoning the Milky Way destroys player agency just as much as them making some things canon does because it makes it not matter.  The only difference is that they invalidate everyone's choices instead of only some people's. Also, please disconnect in your mind the desire to stay in the Milky Way from desire to continue with Shepard. They are two different things.

 

There is something to your statement that it's ME:A, not ME4, just like DA2 should have had a different title. But the concern is that it won't have some of the central elements of the franchise. Imagine if DA2 had no elves and no chantry or circle.

 

What are you talking about? How is changing locals destroying player agency? You got to make the choices in the first trilogy and they are still part of your experience. Telling a new story in a new location doesn't destroy the player agency you exercised in the past. They clearly said the 4th ME title would not be a continuation of the trilogy in anyway. That means you were never going to get to play ME4 and see the consequences of the first 3 games played out. This was state time and time again by Bioware but it wasn't what many fans wanted to hear so they mitigated or marginalised what they were told so it could still somehow mean they got ME4 but with no Shepard or maybe a Shepard cameo or If no Shepard then a Normandy crew cameos. Bioware has been rather clear on their position with ME next.

 

If I moved from one city to one on the other side of the globe I don't lose the agency of the choices I made in the past with my life. I simply go to a new location where the vast majority of my past decisions are rendered moot consequence wise because I have to abandon much that i built in my life in the previous city. There is no loss of control or agency in my life simply because I moved far away. My past isn't less impactful to me even though i am "starting fresh" in a new city and country.

 

There is nothing tying ME to any single location. The ME3 endings have forced either an abandoning of player agency or moving locations and moving locations does nothing to destroy player agency that is just BS. It doesn't negate your disappointment but you are just manufacturing things to somehow legitimize your disappointment. But there is zero need. You don't have to legitimize disappointment because it is a subjective state. It is perfectly valid to feel disappointment in ME:A being in Andromeda but you can't do anything about it and there is nothing 'wrong' with it being in Andromeda. Disappointment here doesn't indicate a failure of design especially when there are no design features to evaluate. 

[Vapaa]

I guess "what's fiction today is science tomorrow" passed you by, somehow.

Come back when the mere possibility of exceeding c is proven.

The point is that the tech in ME as no actual scientific backup, it's all made up from vague aspects of known science, whether or not that backup will arrive in the future is beside the point.

[Gothfather]

to gothfather.  It is simple reapers exist at least 1 milion years. For beings like that and their travel capabilities our tiny slice of universe (local cluster of galaxies) is just scrap of the dust in a fabric of the universe. I do not see the reason why they stay inside "dark void of dark space" between galaxies if they could travel far beyond them.  In fact same problem of organic ws synthetic life will exist inside any galaxy and they should "go there to preserve the life". That is basic imperative of their existence it can not be limited to our galaxy. Or we say our galaxy is unique. If it is unique we may also say there is no life  in andromeda, and also, there is no life outside the earth. Game is having roots in conception of the universe perceived like 50 years ago before Ervin Hubble discovered that there is more than our little galaxy. And beyond it is "dark space".

That is just speculation.

 

It assumes that the catalyst was interested in other galaxies. The reapers are not independent ships/beings their consciousness is tied to the citadel. The catalyst said it was the embodiment of all reaper intelligence. The catalyst is housed within the citadel, It created the reapers as the solution to it's directive to preserve life. But in what context was this directive? The leviathan's goal in creating the AI/catalyst was clearly to preserving life within the galaxy because their slave races were killing themselves off. They create the AI that turned against them for the sole purpose to stop their slave races from self destructing. That is the context of how the Catalyst came into being. The Leviathans where not interested in protecting life for life's sake. They had a clear goal in trying to shield their slaves from self destruction.

 

There is nothing about the reapers that hints at curiosity or a desire to evangelize the preservation of life outside the milky way. The Catalyst is perfectly content to observe its solution from the Citadel and we know it has limitations, it is limited in how it can interact with the universe as it can't use the crucible it requires Shepard. And this all makes sense within the CONTEXT of why the Leviathan's created the Catalyst in the first place. It was done to preserve their slave races and they didn't need life in other galaxies preserved because there is no evidence Leviathans ever left our galaxy. The Catalyst was intelligent enough I think it is safe to say, that it understood the context of its mandate.

 

The limitations on the Reapers are not a limitation of the universe but rather limitation of THEIR imagination. What evidence do we have that the Catalyst has an evolved imagination? It was happy to watch thousands of cycles past with no attempt to come up with a more refined solution. Why would it feel the need to leave the milky way when it felt no need to change the cycles? 

[Sartoz]

Come back when the mere possibility of exceeding c is proven.

The point is that the tech in ME as no actual scientific backup, it's all made up from vague aspects of known science, whether or not that backup will arrive in the future is beside the point.

 

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Sigh...

 

Mere possibility hu?

 

go here then: http://www.utahspace...ht_barrier.html

 

Edit: forgot to add this one: http://phys.org/news...relativity.html

[jak11164]

hmm... you say that "catalyst was the embodiment of all reaper intelligence" means that they have no individual intelligence? But catalyst was hidden in Tessia for millennia and it had no tool (citadel) to influence reapers behaviour. Or reapers run some sort of semi AI intelligence subroutine just in constant harvest procedure. 

All of this does not have any sense at all. If catalyst is superior program it should be considered like installation disk or virus like  "in heretics reprogramming" in ME2 Just reset settings and transmit You do not need citadel destruction to do that.That also does not explain "synthesis solution" also. Keep and destroy maybe ... all connected to reaper mind reprogramming, it is just an information release like Ctr Alt Del triple finger action. Synthesis is quite different solution it melts all organic an synthetic life into a new form. It is not a information release, it is physical procedure. Are we trying to pretend that catalyst have "god" properties? If that so Shepard should have had prayed not jump

[Vapaa]

There's also the fact there is nothing to support the lore that supported LP

Biomechanical implants ? sure there is, and again, it's not because people have accepted ridiculous thing that the next ridiculous thing is more ridiculous.
 

in addition to the fact killing off Shepard at the start of ME2 was completely unnessary.

But it happened.
 

Mere possibility hu?

PROVEN possibility.

[Dantriges]

hmm... you say that "catalyst was the embodiment of all reaper intelligence" means that they have no individual intelligence? But catalyst was hidden in Tessia for millennia and it had no tool (citadel) to influence reapers behaviour. Or reapers run some sort of semi AI intelligence subroutine just in constant harvest procedure. 

All of this does not have any sense at all. If catalyst is superior program it should be considered like installation disk or virus like  "in heretics reprogramming" in ME2 Just reset settings and transmit You do not need citadel destruction to do that.That also does not explain "synthesis solution" also. Keep and destroy maybe ... all connected to reaper mind reprogramming, it is just an information release like Ctr Alt Del triple finger action. Synthesis is quite different solution it melts all organic an synthetic life into a new form. It is not a information release, it is physical procedure. Are we trying to pretend that catalyst have "god" properties? If that so Shepard should have had prayed not jump

 

As far as we know the Catalyst was hiding on the Citadel all the time. Vendetta, a prothean VI was hidden on Thessia. Yeah it makes no sense if you think about it.

As far as we know individual Reapers are full sapient/sentient AI. Could be that the catalyst is the master node of some kind of Reaper network.

[trevelyan_shep]

I'm highly disappointed in them, so I'm not going to give them the benefit of the doubt until I learn more about this game.

[N7Jamaican]

I hope we get some news before N7 day about something from ME:A! Maybe it'll stop people from throwing this game under the bus... MAYBE.

[jak11164]

Dantriges

hmm  I didn't play ME3 4 a year now.( Its just pain 4 me to pay it I just do not like that) but I'm in the middle of walk-trough of the whole trilogy now (just don't have much time to play it)

[In Exile]

apparently, it's hard for some to understand what's consistent within the lore =/= what's consistent in real life

The lore isn't isn't even remotely consistent. Ignoring how none of the science adds up, ME1 breaks its own lore all the time. The best example being the ludicrous human council ending.

[In Exile]

It's getting harder and harder to argue this point. Hell, ME1 isn't even consistent within itself, and relies on a lot of contrivance.

Remember that time when Benezia kept a section of her mind free from indoctrination?

Remember how Rachni were "sensitive" to biotics (lolwut) and how they can mind control dying bodies at a distance?

[Maniccc]

The catalysts states ALL reapers are destroyed with the destroy option. If the crucible explosions could be extragalactic then they would not require mass relays. It would just explode and send the energy out but it uses the MASS RELAYS to blanket the galaxy that is what we see. If the energy is only within the milky way and all reapers die with the destroy option then the reapers are all within the galaxy. Its rather simple. All cats have four limbs. Snuffles is a cat. Therefore snuffles has four limbs. All reapers are destroyed. The energy is confined to the milky way. Therefore the reapers are all in the milky way.   

 

Speaking evidentiary? Show me ONE scrap of evidence that shows them anywhere but the milky way. the Dark space relay is twined with the citadel so even when they are hibernating they are tied to the milky way galaxy. There isn't a single piece of evidence that the reapers care about life beyond the milky way.

Your entire post accidentally supports what I have been saying with one exception, and that is your first sentence.  Unfortunately, I can't remember if Star Brat actually specifies that ALL Reapers will die.  Even if he did, this does not necessarily mean he is speaking the truth, or if by "all" he means all those relevant to us in the Milky Way.

 

As far as your second paragrapph, you are just repeating things that I have said, and spitting out a conclusion based, again, on presumptions you are making.  You assume that there is only one Citadel, for instance, and not others in otehr galaxies.

 

You are also missing a key component of my comments:  I never said they DID go to other galaxies, but that they did not because the writers have said so (perhaps not in so many words, but we can be fairly confident they are done with the Reapers).  My point is simply that if we can go to Andromeda, then the Reapers easily could have gone there.  And this only indicates more ineptitude from the writers.  What they have done is not so much avoid the issues they created in the ME trilogy, but exacerbate them, and make the whole story and the Reapers in general even more silly than they were before.

 

Furthermore, like I said but you seemed to have ignored, it is impossible for there to be evidence of the Reapers going to other galaxies, because the writers never considered that prior to ME:A.  Therefore, we can only extrapolate and make assumptions based on information in the trilogy that was never built around the notion of the Reapers traveling intergalactically.

 

In short, ME is getting rebooted, because the ramifications of us going to Andromeda, vis-a-vis the Reapers, are being ignored.  Basically, the writers wanted to reboot the franchise to keep name recognition, but wanted the ability to say that they "respect our choices."  So they simply are ignoring the trilogy, save for, perhaps, some slight mention of them to give some illusion that the trilogy actually matters anymore.  Like I have said before, ME:A is a stupid attempt to hand wave away the Reapers, the trilogy, its stupid endings, while preserving the brand name in an attempt to cash in on it.  What they should have done, is retire the franchise, it is the only correct choice.

[AlanC9]

What they should have done, is retire the franchise, it is the only correct choice.

Well, except that it isn't. People are going to buy the game, they're going to enjoy it, and Bio's gonna make money. Those are the only actual standards for correctness here.

I don't want to come across as pro-Andromeda here -- I've been pushing canonized Destroy since a month after ME3 shipped. But this is going to work fine. Though maybe not for you.

[In Exile]

Well, except that it isn't. People are going to buy the game, they're going to enjoy it, and Bio's gonna make money. Those are the only actual standards for correctness here.

I don't want to come across as pro-Andromeda here -- I've been pushing canonized Destroy since a month after ME3 shipped. But this is going to work fine. Though maybe not for you.

As much as I dislike all of the endings I think Control is the one to canonise.

[AlanC9]

I wouldn't mind that myself. I just didn't think it'd be popular enough to work.

What was your take on it?

[In Exile]

I wouldn't mind that myself. I just didn't think it'd be popular enough to work.

What was your take on it?

 

I think the main argument in favour of Control is that it preserves so very much of the original setting. Apart from keeping every single underlying race intact (and I believe also always preserving the Earth regardless of EMS level?), it can keep all of the old tensions in the series (e.g. krogans are still potentially violent maraunders) and preserves the main villains of the old series, even if off-screen (via the Shepardlyst). 

 

Plus, it offers a convenient excuse for why the Main Plot ™ doesn't spark galaxy ending wars: because Shepard's just going to swoop in with an armada of space genocide death machines. 

 

As for my own take on it, while on a literally level I think it's pretty bad, practically, from Shepard's POV, it seems to be the best option. If you're going to take the Catalyst at its word for what the ending does, anyway, which I think you have to unless you want to singlehandedly be responsible for a galactic extinction anyway. 

[Iakus]

Well, except that it isn't. People are going to buy the game, they're going to enjoy it, and Bio's gonna make money. Those are the only actual standards for correctness here.
 

You can say that about any shooter, though.

 

But why should it be called "Mass Effect"?

[jak11164]

@ maniccc ( don't want to quote your entire replay)

As we see universe presented in ME1-3 lore, we may see that it has same roots as this one from witch Star Trek originated, based on knowledge from late fifties. There "is our galaxy and beyond it there is dark space" There is no single reference that Universe might be bigger than our galaxy and some deep dark space beyond that.

One more thing except salarians, we humans are perceived as extremely short living species. Asari, Krogans live thousand years I do not know how long racni or proteans live but leviathans live millions of years. Same long lifespan might have had many harvested races. For all of them Universe is open. All of them  may travel to Andromeda or far beyond with FTL within lifespan. I do not understand why Asari didn't flee there at first reapers sight.

So again story has big hole in it because catalyst was created by race of leviatans who can easily travel far beyond local cluster of galaxies and it has "solution" fixed to just our galaxy?

All previous conflicts might have had spread from our galaxy and even come back after reapers are gone. So we may encounter millions of remnants of those conflicts in Andromeda perhaps super intelligent synthetics from previous cycles.

. or... Reapers are universal solution and they are almost everywhere in the universe and we killed small portion of them.

[Iakus]

Meh, Cerberus having a gazillion of resources, the dark energy plot, the geth are once unique race of Network AIs turned into a pinocchio race in ME3, and unreliabilty of the codex entries. Some people are blind to the inconsistencies of ME lore and complaining about leaving the Milky Way as a cop-out.

You realize that people have complained about these inconsistencies too, right?

 

Would adding to the pile really improve the quality of the franchise?

[Maniccc]

Well, except that it isn't. People are going to buy the game, they're going to enjoy it, and Bio's gonna make money. Those are the only actual standards for correctness here.

I don't want to come across as pro-Andromeda here -- I've been pushing canonized Destroy since a month after ME3 shipped. But this is going to work fine. Though maybe not for you.

By "correct" I mean as writing quality is concerned.  Whether or not people will enjoy the game, how many will enjoy it, and so on is speculation.  The success or lack thereof remains to be seen.  I suspect it will sell well, and almost no one will care about the horrible writing because most people are dumb and take joy in inferior products.

[dreamgazer]

You realize that people have complained about these inconsistencies too, right?

 

Would adding to the pile really improve the quality of the franchise?

 

Nope, but it probably wouldn't diminish the franchise's value, either, considering the inconsistencies, lore clashes, and other hand-waved elements throughout the entire trilogy (yes, including ME1).