1395 réponses à ce sujet

[blahblahblah]

Since Bioware is burying its head in the sand regarding the problems they've created in the trilogy, they're going to end up making the same mistakes again eventually.

Bioware is not interested in making a polished turd.

[Maniccc]

The catalyst states that 'the citadel is part of me." https://youtu.be/va-eJbFO8AU?t=36s

 

"I control the reapers, they are my solution" https://youtu.be/va-eJbFO8AU?t=45s

 

"I embody the collective intelligence of ALL reapers' https://youtu.be/va-eJbFO8AU?t=2m21s

 

These are direct quotes with citations. The Catalyst controls the reapers it lives in the citadel and it is the embodiment of the reaper intelligence. The reapers are not independent machines. They are controlled from the citadel. I don't think this makes the Catalyst god like, it isn't so much that this information makes the Catalyst greater but rather this information makes the reapers smaller. The reapers are not so much a force of nature within the universe, they are not the universal boogie man some people build them up to be, the ultimate embodiment of AIs turning against organics, but rather machines controlled by an Al limited to the Citadel. There seems to be limits to what the citadel can do and it does explain why the reapers hibernate at the "dark space" relay. When they are not needed the Catalyst powers them down.  

 

 

A lot of assumptions.  The Citadel controls them, but what does that mean?  For instance, The Chief of police controls his officers,  but each officer is an individual.  Control can mean absolute control, or it can mean that it sends out orders/instructions and organizes the Reapers' activities.

 

It embodies the "collective intelligence".  A collective is a collection of individuals bound together under one will.  It does not necessarily indicate that the individuals have no minds or wills of their own.  The Reapers can be perceived as religious fanatics, which is generally my view of them.  They all have one purpose in life, and slavishly work towards that end, and they are centrally controlled, just like any totalitarian centralized regime.

 

In fact, after ME1 when we destroyed one Reaper, my thinking was that we would ultimately defeat them by somehow subverting the communications networks, and forcing them into disarray, allowing us to hit them one by one, or killing off the main ship, or giving various Reapers orders to fire on other Reapers, or something along those lines.  In fact, this was sort of what some of the early ME3 Cerberus stuff hinted at, about how they were messing with Reaper signals to the husks.  Of course, by that time in ME3 we were already building the super weapon, so that better idea got tossed onto the heap.  

 

But your comment does hit on one thing:  we don't really know how much individualism (or not) the Reapers have.  Are they basically toasters carrying out a program from the central brain, or do they have some will of their own?  Unfortunately, none of this really matters in terms ME:A for a couple of reasons.  

 

First, the writers are done with the Reapers, so that's that.  Second, everything written in the trilogy was written without thought of other galaxies, which means any changes to the ME universe have retroactive consequences, forcing the writers to go back and rewrite/add information related to that.  And this is not only true of the Reapers, but of all other civilizations that they harvested over the eons.  This second one they will very likely never do, and is just an example of the bad writing endemic to the ME team.

[Maniccc]

Bioware is not interested in making a polished turd.

But that's what they've been making, lately.

[TheRealJayDee]

Since Bioware is burying its head in the sand regarding the problems they've created in the trilogy, they're going to end up making the same mistakes again eventually.

Spoiler

[jak11164]

to gothfather( I do not want to cite your whole reply)

You are absolutely right. If there was stated: catalyst&reapers are Milky Way based and attached, the reapers are "solved"..... However I do not understand why Leviathans who live millions or years and can travel with FTL, made such local solution(organics vs synthetics) which does not solve practically anything. Even in our cycle there are long living races for whom travelling to Andromeda out of Reapers treat is no real problem. Asari Krogans they may pack and flee... why they bother incoming reapers? Even Quarians who started whole conflict in our cycle are accustom to long distance travel may just go there.. Just tell me why all races are trying to fight instead flee.

Problem is that Bioware is serving us concept of the universe that is more than fifty years old (before Ervin Hubble discovered expanding universe and billions of galaxies inside it) That "solution" may even cause worse problems. Universe is much bigger than our galaxy and FTL causes(organics vs synthetics) (organics vs reapers)  conflict to spread outside of it.

We may encounter millions of remnants of previous conflicts outside of the galaxy. . .. like super intelligent machines who won previous conflicts and all other races who were smart enough to leave little reaper problem behind.

[Iakus]

To be fair, thats probably about as much as a soldier like Jacob would know....

Too bad Miranda, who actually ran the project, says even less.

[Iakus]

A lot of assumptions.  The Citadel controls them, but what does that mean?  For instance, The Chief of police controls his officers,  but each officer is an individual.  Control can mean absolute control, or it can mean that it sends out orders/instructions and organizes the Reapers' activities.

 

 

"We are each a nation.  Independent.  Free of all weakness"

[Dantriges]

The Leviathans made a local solution for their empire which was the Milky Way. Don´t know why they never expanded beyond it, could be that keeping an empire over these distances and the resulting travel times made it unprofitable. They didn´t care about a possible AI threat from other galaxies because they thought of themselves as beyond these concerns. Species wiped out by their creations was a thrall and tribute problem.

[blahblahblah]

But that's what they've been making, lately.

More so when they canonize an ending. Do you want that turd?

[DaemionMoadrin]

Too bad Miranda, who actually ran the project, says even less.

 

You glean a few details when you listen to her logs. The cutscene says it all though. They had to revive the body cell by cell. Shepard was a corpse and the Lazarus Project was nonsense. Sure... Shep wakes up without neural damage, without memory loss, without any damage whatsoever... no therapy needed, can run just fine, doesn't need to relearn anything.

Even assuming that Shepard didn't burn to a crisp during atmospheric entry (awesome ME1 armor), didn't simply disintegrate on impact (seriously awesome armor), didn't get frostbite while the body froze over (although the crash site is cold, it isn't exactly freezing)... Shep was there for hours, if not days. Dead. Celluar decay, brain damage. Then carted around by agents of the Shadow Broker, by the Collectors, by Liara and eventually by Cerberus. Who had the corpse on their lab table like a piece of meat for two years.

 

Then... SPACE MAGIC™ happens and Shepard is up again, better than ever. Now a cyborg with far superior stats to every human or alien in existence.

 

Sure... totally believable.

 

If Cerberus had cloned Shepard, installed cybernetic implants that double as memory banks and behaviour modificators... and then told the result that yes, they are the real Shepard... who would have known the difference? Shepard had no contact with the people they knew before and even then, they only spent a few months together.

Drag up a second clone, so the first one thinks they are the original... now that would have been a better story.

 

"We are each a nation.  Independent.  Free of all weakness"

 

Retcon, crappy writing and bullshit.

 

The Leviathans made a local solution for their empire which was the Milky Way. Don´t know why they never expanded beyond it, could be that keeping an empire over these distances and the resulting travel times made it unprofitable. They didn´t care about a possible AI threat from other galaxies because they thought of themselves as beyond these concerns. Species wiped out by their creations was a thrall and tribute problem.

 

The Leviathans ruled the Milky Way. Travel to other galaxies wasn't possible or desirable to them. The galaxy is pretty vast and they didn't even explore all of that, why would they care about Andromeda?

 

The Catalyst was supposed to solve the issue for the Leviathan empire. It doesn't care about other galaxies either.

[Amplitudelol]

More so when they canonize an ending. Do you want that turd?

 

lol, yes. Either that or the IP is thrown into trash.

 

to gothfather( I do not want to cite your whole reply)

You are absolutely right. If there was stated: catalyst&reapers are Milky Way based and attached, the reapers are "solved"..... However I do not understand why Leviathans who live millions or years and can travel with FTL, made such local solution(organics vs synthetics) which does not solve practically anything. Even in our cycle there are long living races for whom travelling to Andromeda out of Reapers treat is no real problem. Asari Krogans they may pack and flee... why they bother incoming reapers? Even Quarians who started whole conflict in our cycle are accustom to long distance travel may just go there.. Just tell me why all races are trying to fight instead flee.

Problem is that Bioware is serving us concept of the universe that is more than fifty years old (before Ervin Hubble discovered expanding universe and billions of galaxies inside it) That "solution" may even cause worse problems. Universe is much bigger than our galaxy and FTL causes(organics vs synthetics) (organics vs reapers)  conflict to spread outside of it.

We may encounter millions of remnants of previous conflicts outside of the galaxy. . .. like super intelligent machines who won previous conflicts and all other races who were smart enough to leave little reaper problem behind.

 

EA Wants new ME, BW has to deal with the ****. You are thinking too hard, the explanations will probably be **** but if you can look the other way - even if the only rational solution to the galactic clusterfakk they created is another galaxy - this might be something good.

[Dantriges]

The Leviathans ruled the Milky Way. Travel to other galaxies wasn't possible or desirable to them. The galaxy is pretty vast and they didn't even explore all of that, why would they care about Andromeda?

 

The Catalyst was supposed to solve the issue for the Leviathan empire. It doesn't care about other galaxies either.

 

That´s what I said in the text you quoted.

[DaemionMoadrin]

That´s what I said in the text you quoted.

 

Yes and I agree with you. I simply elaborated the point you made.

[jak11164]

to Amplitudelol

lol yes.... I just discuss how shallow, inconsistent,  uncooked ME3 was/is and what problems we may encounter due to bosh'tet they created

[AlanC9]

More so when they canonize an ending. Do you want that turd?

I'd take a canonized ending over what we're getting, sure. RPG choices shouldn't last longer than the PC who made the choices.

[In Exile]

I'd take a canonized ending over what we're getting, sure. RPG choices shouldn't last longer than the PC who made the choices.

 

I'd prefer a hard reboot. Just throw out the reapers, and reset the setting to the period post-First Contact war. 

[AlanC9]

I could live with that too, though I'm not sure how I'd rank it as an option.

[In Exile]

I could live with that too, though I'm not sure how I'd rank it as an option.

 

Most people I think wouldn't be fans of it, because (like a soft reboot) they'd see it as throwing out the baby with the bathwater. I just think all of the issues with the ME setting flow from the way the reapers were devised. Even if a hard reboot preserves some notional AI Cthulu esque monster, it has to be different from the reapers. 

[Drone223]

Bioware is not interested in making a polished turd.

Except they wouldn't if they actually put some thought and effort into their it instead than running away from the problems they created.

[DreamSever]

npc: I lost my teddy outside, fetch it please

 

if its quests like that, im out

 

come on bioware

[Maniccc]

"We are each a nation.  Independent.  Free of all weakness"

Yes, thank you for this, I had forgotten that line.

 

More so when they canonize an ending. Do you want that turd?

Nah, I want them to retire the franchise and start a new one.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

"With great sorrow, my people forgot to pack the Code of the Ancients. With great hope, would you travel back to the Milky Way and retrieve it from Dekunna?"

[DaemionMoadrin]

"With great sorrow, my people forgot to pack the Code of the Ancients. With great hope, would you travel back to the Milky Way and retrieve it from Dekunna?"

 

Bad luck. I already got it from Dekuuna and brought it to the Citadel... ^^

[Valkyrja]

"We are each a nation.  Independent.  Free of all weakness"

 

Sovereign said lots of things.

 

"We have no beginning. We have no end."

 

"Our numbers will darken the sky of every world."

 

lol

[DaemionMoadrin]

Sovereign said lots of things.

 

"We have no beginning. We have no end."

 

"Our numbers will darken the sky of every world."

 

lol

 

The good old times, when Reapers were awe inspiring.

 

Went all down the toilet when Harbinger threw a hissy fit over his lost toys.