1395 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

You say it like it is a bad thing.

 

Do you work? i assume you do. Do you expect to get paid for your labour? i assume you do.

 

Why is it somehow wrong for a company to want to make a game so you will pay for it?

 

'They're just doing it for the money,' Is the insult of the childish. We all expect to get pay for our work and using that expectation as some kind of moral failing on EA's or any game developer's part is asinine.

Because if you p*ss off too many people too often, you're going to have,a hard time selling your products.  Making money is fine, but in the end you gotta be able to consistently bring in people willing to spend your money.  Consistently hyping a product and then failing to deliver the experience promised will only work so long.  Once people get wise to that, people will stop buying your game.

 

Just going for the cash grab is fine if you don't care about the long term.  But if you want to grow a franchise?  Not so much.

[Iakus]

And why not? As one who has enjoyed the entire ME trilogy and all three DA games so far, I feel like BioWare's earned enough trust from me to buy another product of theirs. EA can shill whatever it wants. The principle of the thing doesn't matter so long as the game is fun, and of course, that EA isn't giving its money to some horrible organization, like the Stormfront Brony Alliance or something. 

Interesting view.  Mass Effect actually destroyed my trust in Bioware.

[goishen]

These two statements could be seen as contradictory, but I have to respond to the bolded line because I hate this foolish notion. There is nothing sacred about an artists work just because they came up with it. Most art, especially books and movies, get edited. Any artist who holds onto their "artistic vision" and won't submit themselves to this process has almost certainly resigned themselves to unknown status and guaranteed their work will never see the light of day.

 

 

Errrr.   That's why the writers work with the editors.  Sometimes, like in the case of Patrick and Karin Weekes, they're actually married.
 

Whoah.   Mind.  Blown.

[KaiserShep]

Gothfather....

and after your long an in depth and really extensive explanations

How unprepared and unconvinced unplanned .. whatever  humanity is

All of sudden  The "ArkCon" and Pathfinder Initiative from civilization "that in 2015 is unable send people to Mars" , last one that discovered mass effect and FTL flight

Is able to sent to Andromeda probably something like this:

Congrats!  You made whole ME:A plot impossible to explain..Thanks

If I were to prepare salvation mission for humanity (as a species) I would be sending frozen container of embryos that would provide genetic diversity, technology to breed that embryos and  memory bank to revive civilization. Maybe couple of deep frozen guardians to operate the system. No giant spaceship is needed no tons of supplies. Just spacecraft with huge battery to reach destination. This is low cost mission and might be commanded in multiple directions to be sure that some succeed

 

Seems like you know something about this game that the rest of us don't. What are the details from which you're drawing these conclusions? 

[KaiserShep]

Interesting view.  Mass Effect actually destroyed my trust in Bioware.

 

And it literally killed Bill Casey, but you gotta take the bad with the good.

[jak11164]

Seems like you know something about this game that the rest of us don't. What are the details from which you're drawing these conclusions? 

http://forum.bioware...der-initiative/

[KaiserShep]

http://forum.bioware...der-initiative/

 

That's not exactly concrete. You say all of a sudden, but what do we know of the actual timeline of the story?

[dragonflight288]

*finishes catching up in thread*

 

....

 

So many rushed conclusions based on very little evidence.

 

I must quote Robert Downy Jr. as Sherlock Holmes here. "It is important not to theorize before we have facts. Inevitably we will alter the facts to fit our theories rather than adjust our theories to fit the facts."

[Iakus]

*finishes catching up in thread*

 

....

 

So many rushed conclusions based on very little evidence.

 

I must quote Robert Downy Jr. as Sherlock Holmes here. "It is important not to theorize before we have facts. Inevitably we will alter the facts to fit our theories rather than adjust our theories to fit the facts."

Or to quote Gandalf from Lord of the Rings:  "The burned hand teaches best. After that, advice about fire goes to the heart"

[q5tyhj]

*finishes catching up in thread*

 

....

 

So many rushed conclusions based on very little evidence.

 

I must quote Robert Downy Jr. as Sherlock Holmes here. "It is important not to theorize before we have facts. Inevitably we will alter the facts to fit our theories rather than adjust our theories to fit the facts."

Surely you know common sense isn't going to be very well received around here... 

[dragonflight288]

Or to quote Gandalf from Lord of the Rings:  "The burned hand teaches best. After that, advice about fire goes to the heart"

 

Also to quote Gandalf, "Even the very wisest cannot see all ends."

 

So we've got burned by Bioware, okay, so that lets us know to be cautious. That does not mean we have room to criticize upcoming games we have next to no evidence on what it'll be like and very little has been confirmed. 

 

Some people are excited, and other people are throwing Bioware and Andromeda under the bus because, well I'm sure it changes from person to person, but I don't see any evidence to support the criticisms I've seen of Andromeda since so little is known. 

 

We cannot know how the game will be. We do not know if it'll be good or bad, if they'll have improved on Inquisition's exploration so that it's there, but it's also not overshadowing the main story as it did in that game, or if it'll be a copy. We don't know what the combat system will be like, we know nothing of the story, the characters or how much the technology of the Mass Effect universe had advanced in the centuries since Shepard's war with the Reapers. 

 

We can be cautious and wait for more news before we commit one way or another on whether or not we'll buy the game, which will fit with the Gandolf quote on fire, but simply dismissing it outright is us forming a theory about the game that is not based on any facts, and if we entrench ourselves in that mindset, any news of the game can be, and likely will be, criticized, but how much if it will be warranted and how much of it will simply be people holding fast to their beliefs is not something I can with any certainty state as factual. 

 

I'm more than willing to wait for more news about the game, because I cannot see the future so I don't know how good the game will be. I'm not particularly excited for it nor am I dreading it. Not enough data to reach a conclusion. 

[Gothfather]

Gothfather....

and after your long an in depth and really extensive explanations

How unprepared and unconvinced unplanned .. whatever  humanity is

All of sudden  The "ArkCon" and Pathfinder Initiative from civilization "that in 2015 is unable send people to Mars" , last one that discovered mass effect and FTL flight

Is able to sent to Andromeda probably something like this:

Congrats!  You made whole ME:A plot impossible to explain..Thanks

If I were to prepare salvation mission for humanity (as a species) I would be sending frozen container of embryos that would provide genetic diversity, technology to breed that embryos and  memory bank to revive civilization. Maybe couple of deep frozen guardians to operate the system. No giant spaceship is needed no tons of supplies. Just spacecraft with huge battery to reach destination. This is low cost mission and might be commanded in multiple directions to be sure that some succeed

 

If you take the position that your ideas are the only ones worth having and are more in love with your clever insight than in the actual in game evidence then yeah you could read what i said as me saying who whole ME:A plot is impossible. But that would require you ignore what i am actually saying.

 

 

Just because the current technology has engines that can breach the intergalactic void in 500 years doesn't mean there are technologies that can transport vast numbers of people and make them 100% self sufficient with no ability to restock in a crisis. No one is going to make a plan to do this 'just in case.' You may find refugees from the milky way galaxy in Andromeda but they are not going to be the norm. Some breakthrough is going to be required to get the races of the milky way to Andromeda.

 

 

 

Notice the underlines, Italic and Bold? That is stating that the plot IS viable but it requires something new to explain it. You think the limitation is a failure of imagination on the writers part and that is just isn't the case. our failure to reach the moon was never lack of imagination it was technological. It took us most of our existence to reach it. Mars is several magnitudes farther away and we still can't reach it with manned spacecraft. Reaching the outer planets several magnitudes greater than mars. Going to the stars is hundreds magnitudes greater than going to the outer planets. Reaching Andromeda it is several thousands of magnitudes greater than reaching the stars. We didn't reach the moon because our view of the universe had to change it was changed 100s of year earlier that would have allowed us to reach it, but we couldn't FULL STOP. Isaac Newton was the key and it still took over 250 years from when our view of the universe changed and our ability to exploit that new way of thinking allowed us to visit. You think the only reason the writers never populated Andromeda was because their view of the universe was based on a model over 50 years old. You think it was insightful and clever but it wasn't. And you being in love with that insight has blinded you, you refuse to accept any limitations in the lore as stopping races from escaping the reapers via Andromeda. Like it should be a ZOO filled with all the races of the Milky way who came to Andromeda to escape.

 

It isn't a lack of imagination that has limited the scope of the ME story thus far to the milky way but their technology. Which means it shouldn't have a large collection of Refugees escaping the Reapers from every previous cycle. That should be rare. We obviously got there so there obviously a breakthrough in some form of technology that allowed it. What that is I don't know but something had to have occurred that allowed this. They can't leave it uncommented on because the current state of technology in the lore doesn't provide an explanation. And they will I am sure and we wont know for months yet. I predict an N7 day reveal.

[In Exile]

Gothfather....

and after your long an in depth and really extensive explanations

How unprepared and unconvinced unplanned .. whatever  humanity is

All of sudden  The "ArkCon" and Pathfinder Initiative from civilization "that in 2015 is unable send people to Mars" , last one that discovered mass effect and FTL flight

Is able to sent to Andromeda probably something like this:

 

Congrats!  You made whole ME:A plot impossible to explain..Thanks

If I were to prepare salvation mission for humanity (as a species) I would be sending frozen container of embryos that would provide genetic diversity, technology to breed that embryos and  memory bank to revive civilization. Maybe couple of deep frozen guardians to operate the system. No giant spaceship is needed no tons of supplies. Just spacecraft with huge battery to reach destination. This is low cost mission and might be commanded in multiple directions to be sure that some succeed

 

What are you talking about? How is 2015 relevant? That was all taken care of by magical space magic technology hidden on Mars, i.e., the protheans. Then in a few generations humanity was on the same technological level as the rest of the galaxy. No one in ME discovered anything - they found it lying on the ground. 

 

Humanity's was constantly pitched in ME1 - before ME2/ME3 dropped this - as being the most inventive of the species. The Normandy and fighter carries were human inventions. This was supposed to be our planet of hats trope: innovation. To go along with Salarian subterfuge, Asari diplomacy and Turian military. 

[NeonFlux117]

The SR1 was a joint Turian Miltary and alliance construction.

[In Exile]

The SR1 was a joint Turian Miltary and alliance construction.

 

Which I'm sure is what the Ark will be, hence the other species. But, like the Normandy, it will primarily be human-led and human-crewed, and represent primarily human innovation, like the Normandy (at its steath systems/drive core). That's the only explanation for why it's serving in the Alliance fleet, and the Turians don't have their own equivalent.

[phagus]

If you're combining plot holes and suspension of disbelief, which makes sense because plot holes can strain SoD, then I understand. However, the original conversation separated the two, which is why I said what I did.

Well no. If I recall correctly, I didn't even bring up the LOTR Eagle question as a plot hole (which it isn't) that would be Gothfather. I never separated the two, that would have been you when you replied to my answer to him.

 

A plot hole (an apparent one that isn't or an actual one) can break suspension of disbelief just like any poorly contrived plot element. Equally it can be totally ignored/remain undiscovered if nothing in the narrative forces you to question it and break your suspension of disbelief.

 

Your last statement: "The existence of Giant Eagles is an issue of Suspension of Disbelief. Why they don't fly Frodo to Mt. Doom is not.", makes no sense. Which is why I asked for some explanation on your part. That statement would be analogous to saying that in ME that: "The existence of giant bugs, The Rachni, is an issue of suspension of Disbelief. Why they are not used during the battle of the Conduit on Earth is not". When either can cause an issue of disbelief if there is no obvious explanation or answer in game.

[jak11164]

Milky Way                                              100.000-120.000 LY diameter, 400.000.000 stars  18.2 years to cross with FTL 

Our local group:

Large Magellanic Cloud                        14.000LY diameter mass 20.000.000 solar mass, distance 162 980LY  - 29,58 years to reach with FTL. Are reapers there?***

Small Magellanic Cloud                         7.000 LY diameter, contains several hundred million stars, distance 200.000 LY -> 35 years to reach with FTL Are reapers there?**

Sagittarius Dwarf Spheroidal Galaxy      10.000 LY diameter  distance 50.000 LY  4.5 FTL years to reach. Are reapers there?***

Canis Major Overdensity   irregular galaxy in our local group                     1.000.000.000 stars 25.000LY from earth 42.000 LY from Milky Way core 4.5-7.6 years to reach with FTL. Are reapers there?***

Canes Venatici I  (dwarf galaxy)               mass 27.000.000 solar mass, distance 720 000LY 131 FTL years to reach. Are reapers there?***

and 24 more galaxies in Milky Way sub group

Other big galaxies in local group:

Triangulum Galaxy M33                           60.00 LY diameter 40.000.000 stars distance 2,380.000LY

Andromeda M31                                     190.000 LY diameter, 10.000.000.000.000 stars  distance 2 538 000LY 463 years to reach with FTL yeah thats the target. This is the only solution and we have to believe that reaper/ organics/synthetics conflict is limited to our galaxy only

 

<--author Andrew Z. Colvin

and this tiny scratch of the universe is part of Laniakea Supercluster 500.000.000LY in diameter containing 100.000 galaxies

Other question is: Why Bioware made  400.000.000 star system incapable of hosting next ME game? Ofc. Shepard was a Messiah lol nice one That what messiahs do ....

**Nope Gothfater say: "There is nothing about the reapers that hints at curiosity or a desire to evangelize the preservation of life outside the milky way."

[AlanC9]

That statement would be analogous to saying that in ME that: "The existence of giant bugs, The Rachni, is an issue of suspension of Disbelief. Why they are not used during the battle of the Conduit on Earth is not". When either can cause an issue of disbelief if there is no obvious explanation or answer in game.

That example doesn't really work. Not seeing rachni from Shepard's POV or in the battle cutscenes isn't any sort of proof that they weren't present. Though I don't think putting rachni on the front lines would be likely to accomplish much more than racking up a ton of friendly-fire incidents.

[Iakus]

Also to quote Gandalf, "Even the very wisest cannot see all ends."

 

So we've got burned by Bioware, okay, so that lets us know to be cautious. That does not mean we have room to criticize upcoming games we have next to no evidence on what it'll be like and very little has been confirmed. 

 

Some people are excited, and other people are throwing Bioware and Andromeda under the bus because, well I'm sure it changes from person to person, but I don't see any evidence to support the criticisms I've seen of Andromeda since so little is known. 

 

We cannot know how the game will be. We do not know if it'll be good or bad, if they'll have improved on Inquisition's exploration so that it's there, but it's also not overshadowing the main story as it did in that game, or if it'll be a copy. We don't know what the combat system will be like, we know nothing of the story, the characters or how much the technology of the Mass Effect universe had advanced in the centuries since Shepard's war with the Reapers. 

 

We can be cautious and wait for more news before we commit one way or another on whether or not we'll buy the game, which will fit with the Gandolf quote on fire, but simply dismissing it outright is us forming a theory about the game that is not based on any facts, and if we entrench ourselves in that mindset, any news of the game can be, and likely will be, criticized, but how much if it will be warranted and how much of it will simply be people holding fast to their beliefs is not something I can with any certainty state as factual. 

 

I'm more than willing to wait for more news about the game, because I cannot see the future so I don't know how good the game will be. I'm not particularly excited for it nor am I dreading it. Not enough data to reach a conclusion. 

We can't "know" with certainty what the game will be, no.

 

But we do know what the previous games were.  And we know how Bioware reacted to the backlash.  And we know the setting, at least in general terms.  There's enough of a pattern to be pretty freaking pessimistic. 

 

If Bioware ends up pleasantly surprising us with something that's actually well-thought-out and taken with player feedback from the ME3 debacle in mind, then great.  But precedent says that's highly unlikely

[phagus]

That example doesn't really work. Not seeing rachni from Shepard's POV or in the battle cutscenes isn't any sort of proof that they weren't present. Though I don't think putting rachni on the front lines would be likely to accomplish much more than racking up a ton of friendly-fire incidents.

I was using it as a relevant ME analogy to Natureguy85 statement, which IMO made no sense. Perhaps there is a better one to use. But my point still stands: that if there was no apparent reason why they weren't used when hypothetically there was every expectation that they would be. That would be an issue of suspension of disbelief. Just like the Rachni turning up without some in game explanation of their existence. Also in a game like ME not seeing them, or having any codex entry etc explaining why they were/weren't present, is proof that they weren't as far as the player is concerned.

 

Considering the possible numbers of Rachni that should have been in game, and their obvious utility against Reaper ground forces. Putting their soldier class on the front lines, where they could have tunneled under Reaper ground forces and came out at the Conduit, would have accomplished more than the suicidal conduit run we ended up with. Also Allied troops mistaking distinctive Rachni for Reaper forces, as implied by what you said about friendly fire incidents, is unlikely in well trained troops.

[goishen]

Look.  You can stand here screaming to the gods all day long.  Me?  I'm waiting 'till November.  'Cause you wanna know what?   That's when all the cool games are coming out.  BF III, Rise Of The Tomb Raider, XCom 2, I'm sure that that will be more than enough to keep my ass busy until A) we get more info on the game, or the next ME hits the shelves.

 

I dunno which I'm gonna play first, to tell ya the truth.  And I'm sure that I'm missing a couple'a games.

 

This year is gonna be so exciting for gaming.

[dreamgazer]

Uh, yeah, I'll be in Fallout land for most of November.

[Seival]

                                                                               <<<<<<<<<<0>>>>>>>>>>

 

Perhaps because the ME3 ending fiasco taught them a lesson?

 

In other words, the Andromeda game will be totally different. Could be just a single stand alone game. with new rules, hostiles, adventure and a clear objective, which is to start colonizing and controlling and holding its own. Something similar to DA2 without its drawbacks. On another bright side, , the early choices can lead to a colony that  is established and humanity is now entrenched and influential in the Helious Cluster or on the dark side the colony fails and humanity must go Pathfinding elsewhere.......
 

ME3 ending was great, and opened really good opportunities to create something fantastic based on changed universe.

 

ME:A trailer shows that BioWare learned nothing, because the lesson was about not listening to the vocal minority.

[laudable11]

Um, I'm here for the Gandalf and Sherlock Holmes quotes.

[Seival]

When someone tries to please everyone - he pleases noone eventually. BioWare afraid of taking sides, and that I'm sure will have very bad impact on the ME:A.