1395 réponses à ce sujet

[Il Divo]

Just for curiosity: was that confirmed? I don't recall hearing anything about the centuries later bit, but my info could be way out of date. 

[Zatche]

What the heck do these two things have to do with one another? There is literally no connection between them whatsoever.

 

Right. The move to Andromeda is to avoid having to account for how divergent the endings were (without picking a canon ending), not to deal with how bad the ending was.

[Il Divo]

So Zatche, as a random aside: I'm about halfway through rewatching Avatar: The Last Airbender. Aside from a few small nitpicks, it's as awesome as ever. 

[The Night Haunter]

Andromeda is also set centuries after ME3 IIRC. Sure, salarians might be a bit mistrustful of krogan, but there's no way their relationship would be exactly where it left off in the MW. Politics may be created by people, but they're prompted by the environment. Land, wealth, and governance disputes would all be totally different in a new setting, especially after so many years.

Sure it is centuries later, but since everyone was in cryogenic stasis the entire time it is as if no time had passed!

[Drone223]

What the heck do these two things have to do with one another? There is literally no connection between them whatsoever.

Bioware doesn't want to deal with the mistakes they've made in the trilogy, moving to another galaxy only side steps the problem it.

 

Of course it can. People bring their politics with them. If Salarians come on our happy little voyage of course they'll be mistrustful of the Krogan (and the Krogan will probably thoroughly dislike the Salarians as well). Just because we aren't in the MW doesn't suddenly mean all the racism rampart in ME thus far is going to just up and disappear. Politics is created by people, not places, and when the people go somewhere the politics goes with em.

 

You can bring post war politics to another galaxy because the war never happened there, we'll know nothing about the political state of affairs after the reaper war in another galaxy.
 

 

The Genophage Cure might be one of the few things Bioware actually accounts for in the import. That could very easily happen before the Andromeda launch while still leaving time for the Ark to leave before Priority: Earth.

 

If that's the case then Bioware shouldn't bother moving to another galaxy in the first place since their' going to account for that choice one way or the other.

 

 

Which has no connection whatsoever to them moving the setting 

See first comment.

[Zatche]

So Zatche, as a random aside: I'm about halfway through rewatching Avatar: The Last Airbender. Aside from a few small nitpicks, it's as awesome as ever. 

 

I actually didn't get into it until about 9 months ago. Didn't have Nickelodeon as a kid, but thank goodness for Amazon Prime!

[Iakus]

1) But you still have not addressed this assumption. What's stopping this hypothetical advanced race from arriving from their galaxy in between either the most recent cycle or for the ship to go derelict on a planet which the Reapers have no reason to investigate? Again you're allowing for Ilos but creating an arbitrary distinction here which shouldn't exist, especially since we know the Reapers concentrate their efforts on civilizations according to Citadel records. 

 

The tech doesn't have to originate in the Milky Way. And while we may not know how we reach Andromeda at present, that doesn't negate there being about a billion different scenarios for why the Reapers never found technology X on Planet Y. Just look at the Leviathans in the first place. 

 

2) I think this is overcomplicating things a great deal. We don't need to make all these assumptions about the nature of this precursor race, which are unnecessary. What we have right now is the technology. Explanations come later, like most sci fi series. Maybe the civilization is dead, maybe it's alive. Maybe they're friendly, maybe they're hostile. The point though is we don't have enough info to say that the Reapers will ipso facto have reached other galaxies. 

 

3) Considering we've already had it happen about a million times between derelict Reaper vessels, Ilos, the Crucible, and Prothean beacons, I'm gonna disagree. The Reapers completely ignored Ilos merely because it wasn't reported in Citadel Records, which makes any uninhabited planet game for an undiscovered derelict ship. I understand if you dislike the plot point period, but then this stops being an ending issue and starts becoming a "This is Mass Effect day 1" issue. 

 

1)  And we are still left with tech that is more advanced with the Reapers, lying around for us to conveniently find and even more conveniently figure out.  Like I said, this scenerio is hugely contrived.

 

2) If we are hypothetically saying this technology came from a (yet another)  precursor race, then a logical extension of that is this race is even more advanced than the Reapers, as they have (apparently) never even tried to visit other galaxies, despite their absolutist mandate to preserve all life.  And if there is something out there bigger than the Reapers, then we have to consider the implications of that

 

3) "a million times" is a bit of an exageration.  But keep in mind this would be doubly contrived, as not only would this be a derelict that we just happen across, it would be one the Reapers did not happen across, even while actively searching fro advanced organics.

[Drone223]

1)  And we are still left with tech that is more advanced with the Reapers, lying around for us to conveniently find and even more conveniently figure out.  Like I said, this scenerio is hugely contrived.

 

2) If we are hypothetically saying this technology came from a (yet another)  precursor race, then a logical extension of that is this race is even more advanced than the Reapers, as they have (apparently) never even tried to visit other galaxies, despite their absolutist mandate to preserve all life.  And if there is something out there bigger than the Reapers, then we have to consider the implications of that

 

3) "a million times" is a bit of an exageration.  But keep in mind this would be doubly contrived, as not only would this be a derelict that we just happen across, it would be one the Reapers did not happen across, even while actively searching fro advanced organics.

Yeah the ME series has already had enough contrived plot devices in the trilogy it doesn't need any more.

[Il Divo]

1)  And we are still left with tech that is more advanced with the Reapers, lying around for us to conveniently find and even more conveniently figure out.  Like I said, this scenerio is hugely contrived.

 

2) If we are hypothetically saying this technology came from a (yet another)  precursor race, then a logical extension of that is this race is even more advanced than the Reapers, as they have (apparently) never even tried to visit other galaxies, despite their absolutist mandate to preserve all life.  And if there is something out there bigger than the Reapers, then we have to consider the implications of that

 

3) "a million times" is a bit of an exageration.  But keep in mind this would be doubly contrived, as not only would this be a derelict that we just happen across, it would be one the Reapers did not happen across, even while actively searching fro advanced organics.

 

1) That's true and it's why I say essentially it's "Welcome to Mass Effect". We've been doing this with super special Sheperd since the beginning. He's really just a dude, who conveniently manages all these clues hinting at Reapers, despite their reputation for exterminating all evidence of their existence. We can say it's contrived, though no worse than anything Mass Effect has given us already. This is why I bring up the Leviathans, the Crucible, Multiple Prothean Beacons in ME1 and 2, hell Javik's existence, the Prothean VI on Thessia, the Thorian, Ilos, the dead Reaper. 

 

2) Yes, we have to consider the implications of this hypothetical other race. I would not deny that, under any circumstances. But considering implications requires that we have something to go on. I'm simply offering alternatives for why "Reapers should have this technology" isn't a foregone conclusion at this stage, but merely a possibility. Many sci fi stories function by offering the cast advanced technology from a mysterious race before we find about details of said race. 

 

3) A bit of an exaggeration, but it's happened enough times to escape the realm of coincidence and turn into a plot contrivance.  

 

The issue I take with calling it doubly contrived is that you're not applying the same logic to Ilos. The entire planet escaped the Reapers' attention (despite a previous culling as you mentioned) merely because it was omitted from Citadel Records. Are you really suggesting it's doubly contrived that the Reapers missed this new piece of technology when it could quite easily involve a derelict ship on an uninhabited planet? In what way are the two scenarios different?

 

Also keeping in mind that there's no stipulation for when the derelict ship arrives. It could have been after the Prothean culling for all we know, in which case Sovereign is the only Reaper around. 

[AlanC9]

Bioware doesn't want to deal with the mistakes they've made in the trilogy, moving to another galaxy only side steps the problem it.

Again, exactly what is it you want Bio to do?

[In Exile]

Everything in ME1 is an absurd contrivance. The whole series is built on it.

Through sheer fluke Shepard happens to be on the Normandy when Saren invades Eden Prime. Saren, rather than just blowing up the beacon, comes up with a Bond-villain level plan of blowing up the planet.

When Udina fails to convince the Council that Saren is a traitorous traitor who traitors harder than the traitorest traitor, Shepard just happens to blindly stumble on the most absurdly incriminating evidence, that so incriminating that the Council forgoes even the most basic form of due process, declares Saren a traitor, and instead of assigning basically any other Spectre in existence to hunt down Saren, just up and makes Shepard one.

Shepard then goes flukes his way through at least 2 more ridiculous coincidences (just happening to run into Benezia on Noveria and arriving just in time to save the Thorian) to get on Saren's trial. On Virmire Shepard gets lucky *again* because Saren is stupid enough to keep a backup (!!) beacon, which actually saves Shepard because even with the Cipher and the Eden Prime beacon, the vision is too damaged to identify Ilos.

Then we've got the fact that the entire crew is 100% onboard with a mutiny that goes off completely without a hitch, despite the fact that Shepard has to straight up fly through the entire Citadel fleet. And that's not even mentioning the actual Deus Ex Machina in Vigil. And how Saren (for the third time!) is too stupid to just, y'know, move the conduit.

And that's just ME1!

[LinksOcarina]

Again, exactly what is it you want Bio to do?

 

It should be pointed out it's an assumption that is the reason why were in a new galaxy.

 

Maybe it's the practical reason in the end, but I still maintain the fact that BioWare is more than likely going to address the state of the Milky Way in some form before we head to Andromeda. 

[KaiserShep]

And how Saren (for the third time!) is too stupid to just, y'know, move the conduit.

 

Well, moving it is kind of meaningless, unless he thinks it's too valuable to destroy but wants to keep the enemy from using it. Otherwise, simply having the geth armatures littered about the area destroy the thing, which would probably take a chunk of Ilos with it, would foil any effort to stop him right then and there. 

[pdusen]

Bioware doesn't want to deal with the mistakes they've made in the trilogy, moving to another galaxy only side steps the problem it.

 

But how does that prove that they haven't learned anything from the problem? How does that tell you they're going to repeat the same mistake in the next ending?

[AlanC9]

It should be pointed out it's an assumption that is the reason why were in a new galaxy.
 
Maybe it's the practical reason in the end, but I still maintain the fact that BioWare is more than likely going to address the state of the Milky Way in some form before we head to Andromeda.

It's possible, but I don't see the value of moving to Andromeda unless they're ducking the state of the Milky Way. What's the benefit?

[LinksOcarina]

It's possible, but I don't see the value of moving to Andromeda unless they're ducking the state of the Milky Way. What's the benefit?

 

Ive said this before, it's a non-permanent move. It's an exploration mission. 

 

I argue the fact that they either use Reaper technology in some form, or find a Mass Effect gate that leads to the Andromeda galaxy somehow. Something of that nature, which allows them passage or contact with the other side for supplies and updates.

 

Hence the "Pathfinder" initiative. All speculation of course, but it's possible and honestly, a bit more plausible than a permanent move. 

[AlanC9]

That didn't answer my question. What's the advantage of moving the setting to Andromeda?

Sure, some people think the Milky Way's been completely explored, but they're idiots.

[LinksOcarina]

That didn't answer my question. What's the advantage of moving the setting to Andromeda?

Sure, some people think the Milky Way's been completely explored, but they're idiots.

 

Resources? Place to stay? New Technology? Cartography, mapping out beyond the Milky Way?

 

A lot of reasons, take your pick on that one as to why. We can be cynical and say the reason is to wipe the slate clean, but in-game, the reason can be any or all of those. It's a literal Star Trek mandate to explore. 

 

Presuming that is why were going.

[KaiserShep]

That didn't answer my question. What's the advantage of moving the setting to Andromeda?

Sure, some people think the Milky Way's been completely explored, but they're idiots.

 

I guess the most notable advantage is that it removes the inevitable so-close-and-yet-so-far affair that would come with setting the new game in the Milky Way, which would probably do its best to avoid just about every familiar place we've ever visited. 

[In Exile]

That didn't answer my question. What's the advantage of moving the setting to Andromeda?

Sure, some people think the Milky Way's been completely explored, but they're idiots.

 

Avoding RBG and having to deal with the consequences of ME3. 

[In Exile]

Well, moving it is kind of meaningless, unless he thinks it's too valuable to destroy but wants to keep the enemy from using it. Otherwise, simply having the geth armatures littered about the area destroy the thing, which would probably take a chunk of Ilos with it, would foil any effort to stop him right then and there. 

 

It's not entirely clear what it would take to destroy a relay even of that size. I would have gone with "let Sovereign nuke it after" but it wasn't there, so I went with "move", as a plan B. 

[dragonflight288]

Just for curiosity: was that confirmed? I don't recall hearing anything about the centuries later bit, but my info could be way out of date. 

 

It's been confirmed by Bioware when they announced Andromeda. 

 

Heck, even in the "Introducing Mass Effect: Andromeda", the opening post by Bioware, they say it. Well, they say it takes place "long after the evens of Mass Effect 3" and then later said it was centuries later. 

[dragonflight288]

Resources? Place to stay? New Technology? Cartography, mapping out beyond the Milky Way?

 

A lot of reasons, take your pick on that one as to why. We can be cynical and say the reason is to wipe the slate clean, but in-game, the reason can be any or all of those. It's a literal Star Trek mandate to explore. 

 

Presuming that is why were going.

 

Opportunity to explore new ideas Bioware have for the Mass Effect universe, like new species. The ability to distance themselves from having to choose a canon-ending. Avoid the direct consequences of player choices which would be wide in scope and would require a great deal of resources to address, resources that would otherwise go into making a stronger story with strong characters, like if the Quarians are alive or extinct, are the Geth extinct, is everyone in the galaxy some weird sort of organic/synthetic hybrid, are Reapers still around or are they destroyed, was the genophage cured, how much of the galaxy was roughly saved  because of galactic readiness, did the Krogan have a cultural reinassance or did they start a new rebellion, are the Rachni still around?

 

So long as Bioware can give us a plausible way to get to Andromeda, they don't have to address the wide-ranging consequences of Mass Effect 3's ending, keep some races while expanding the mass effect universe. New races to meet, new planets to explore and no need to devote a lot of resources dealing with player choices that span an entire trilogy. 

 

Yes, some people aren't happy, but quite frankly, I think this is the best option Bioware could make to both expand the universe and still be able to provide us with great characters and a great story without being tied down by Shepard's story. 

[Drone223]

But how does that prove that they haven't learned anything from the problem? How does that tell you they're going to repeat the same mistake in the next ending?

The fact that Bioware is setting the game in another galaxy speaks for itself, it doesn't inspire much confidence that they've learned anything said mistakes in the trilogy. Running away from the problems doesn't make them go away because they're still there.

 

Avoding RBG and having to deal with the consequences of ME3. 

Except it leaves too many questions about the state of the galaxy unresolved, in addition it makes all the choices made in the trilogy become meaningless since the galaxy is being ditched altogether.

[dragonflight288]

The fact that Bioware is setting the game in another galaxy speaks for itself, it doesn't inspire much confidence that they've learned anything said mistakes in the trilogy. Running away from the problems doesn't make them go away because they're still there.

 

Except it leaves too many questions about the state of the galaxy unresolved, in addition it makes all the choices made in the trilogy become meaningless since the galaxy is being ditched altogether.

 

All it'll take is a few lines of dialogue and a few codex entries and your problem is solved and Bioware can focus on a new story in a new location in the same universe.

 

In the words of a very wise woman.