1395 réponses à ce sujet

[Nethershadow]

It doesn't "speak for itself" at all. It just says that they're aware that the endings were a big problem, because they had to move the setting a lot to get around it. You still have yet to demonstrate why that means they are going to repeat the same mistakes.

Well actually it does speak for itself and you just explained why.

 

If the endings were such a problem (meaning they broke the galaxy), then obviously they could just fix/adjust the MW story moving forward to the new game to continue there instead of ignoring the issue altogether and moving to another galaxy.

 

To me this just shows they have abandoned the Trilogy to start with a clean slate and not have to spend time and money on making sure they connect the dots of history. Well then why give us N7 Humans in the new galaxy if they don't want anything to do with it? Because without the N7 Human there would be nothing to tie the new game into the Mass Effect IP. So they want to run off the success of Mass Effect IP to make sales but they don't want to use very much at all from Mass Effect in the new game.

[Il Divo]

Which questions are bugging you?



I have no idea what you mean by this,

 

Gonna go with Alan on this one. The epilogue does also confirm that the individual races are eventually able to make it back to their own galaxy and go on with their lives.

 

If people really just want to explore that galaxy, it's fine, just say so. But hiding behind the "story is incomplete" isn't really doing us any favors right now. 

[Sartoz]

Snip

Those are both possible. They are also narratively potentially compelling if written well but in terms of player reaction....ugh.

 

                                                                                       <<<<<<<<<<()>>>>>>>>>>

 

Exactly! Player reaction is key, here.  EA wants to sell  a game and Bio understands this.

 

The easiest solution was to present only the Destroy option, provided you gained sufficient war assets. And, to make it more interesting, the destroy option is tied down to Shep's sacrifice of himself to rid the Reaper scurge. This would end the trilogy quite nicely, though sad for Shep fans.

[AlanC9]

Through the trilogy they have shown that no one has the technology to travel between systems without the gates, including the Asari who are suppose to be at the top of the tech ladder out of the core races.

You meant to say "clusters" rather than "systems," right? Even so, this isn't really true. There's no range limit on standard FTL as long as your ship is equipped with fuel scoops. Journeying to Ilos without the Mu relay would have been impractical, but not impossible.

 

As for the possible endings, I thought Bioware had dictated for each game what the canon choices are, and the destroy ending was the canon option.

This is actually the opposite of what Bio's always said about choices. I wish Bio had adopted your policy, FWIW.

But regardless, it doesn't matter that they moved it to another galaxy for that, because we are still playing a N7 human probably of the alliance, and we are an extension of the human / Earth goverment so we would still be reporting back to them. So the MW choices will carry over to this game, though Bioware might not put any focus or emphasis on that, but inevitably those choices would come to light.

The conclusion doesn't follow. The exiles would be likely to keep their familiar governmental structures, wouldn't they?
 

Lastly, who is to say the catalyst choice only affected our galaxy, I mean this thing already is encompassing a massive area, what are those boundaries and who's to say it hasn't affected other galaxies?

Who's to say? Um... the writers, maybe?

[Il Divo]

Yes there would be no difference if the Trilogy was just ended and no other games in the universe were made. The problem there is there was. They are taking the IP that became hugely successful and destroyed it in the ending and even before they made the third game I'm pretty sure they fully intended to continue the IP. So then why destroy the world that made them so successful? So they intended to create another game while alienating the fan base that made it successful?

 

Going to another galaxy in the game normally wouldn't be so bad, but the only thing that most everyone associates Mass Effect with is the Trilogy which was left in a horrible place, and then why can't they just tell the same story they are about to tell in the same galaxy which is more than doable while showing that fanbase that the game world they came to love is still supported and improved by them.

 

The whole ending of the Trilogy left me feeling exactly how I do in regards to Star Trek. They advanced technology and events so far that the writers destroyed the future of the universe. Why do you think all they have ever done since is go backwards in time to tell stories or plain old just redo.

 

The Shepard story is complete and overall I really enjoyed it, but the galaxy's story is ended because there is no way for any of the races to travel to each other. Now with Andromeda, they realize they destroyed the galaxy that housed the IP, and in order to make money of the IP going forward, they will do exactly what everyone else has done, and that is to go back in time to add some caveat to how they got to another galaxy before the ending. And yet for some reason the Humans had enough man power and resources to pull together a sizable amount to send off to another galaxy in a method we are yet to learn of.

 

The Lord of the Rings and Star Wars example you mention are not the same thing, because the world / galaxy continues on, and further stories are told in that same place that made it successful. This is not true with Mass Effect.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong (I could be misunderstanding this). But how is Mass Effect, in any sense different? What does where the stories are told have to do with anything? My point is that those are in fact different stories.

 

Star Wars was a trilogy that essentially finished. As was Lord of the Rings. Further stories were created, but they didn't need to be for those particular trilogies to have reached a conclusion. The central conflict of both the protagonist and the narrative were concluded in those examples, as was Mass Effect's, which did indicate everyone was able to get back to their respective home systems. 

[Sidney]

Well actually it does speak for itself and you just explained why.
 
If the endings were such a problem (meaning they broke the galaxy), then obviously they could just fix/adjust the MW story moving forward to the new game to continue there instead of ignoring the issue altogether and moving to another galaxy.
 
To me this just shows they have abandoned the Trilogy to start with a clean slate and not have to spend time and money on making sure they connect the dots of history. Well then why give us N7 Humans in the new galaxy if they don't want anything to do with it? Because without the N7 Human there would be nothing to tie the new game into the Mass Effect IP. So they want to run off the success of Mass Effect IP to make sales but they don't want to use very much at all from Mass Effect in the new game.

Ok so if this game was called M31 Rising then it would be better?

[Nethershadow]

@Nethershadow: I am afraid we have nothing else to go on but these epilogues, so that has to be the material we need to work with, whether you find it plausible or not (I have my problems with its plausibility as well but hey, it's done).
On the other accounts: BW has never made any ending choice canon. All choices are accounted for in the later ME games (apart from a few unfortunate bugs like Conrad Verner in ME2). The trilogy has no canon.
We are also not playing another N7 guy, whether the new protagonist will be alliance or not (or whether the alliance even exists in Andromeds) is unknown.
While it is not entirely certain that nothing out of our galaxy is affected by the crucible, the wave spreads through the relay network, which -according to it's own builders - only exists in the Milky Way. Besides, it would be a really odd choice by the writers to send us all the way to Andromeda in order to escape the ending dilemma, only to use another contrivance to send that dilemma right there with us. Ultimately, it's the writers choice.

I am glad though that they added it, as it shows the future of the MW community is still moving forward for us fans to see that.

 

I don't have the quote but Bioware has confirmed the N7 Marines are still in place, and since we are human it shows that the Earth Goverment (which I believe is the Alliance) will be our bosses in this installment as well. They main character is confirmed to be a N7 Human, which has left some annoyed as they wanted to play another species.

[Nohvarr]

Well actually it does speak for itself and you just explained why.

 

If the endings were such a problem (meaning they broke the galaxy), then obviously they could just fix/adjust the MW story moving forward to the new game to continue there instead of ignoring the issue altogether and moving to another galaxy.

Why bother? by going back and "Fixing" the endings they run the risk of nullifying player choice. Moving to a new galaxy would likely occur even if the endings were beloved, because it avoids anymore retconing, something fans have been yelling at Bioware about since Mass Effect 2.

 

To me this just shows they have abandoned the Trilogy to start with a clean slate and not have to spend time and money on making sure they connect the dots of history. Well then why give us N7 Humans in the new galaxy if they don't want anything to do with it? Because without the N7 Human there would be nothing to tie the new game into the Mass Effect IP. So they want to run off the success of Mass Effect IP to make sales but they don't want to use very much at all from Mass Effect in the new game.

Because they haven't "Abandoned" the trilogy. It exists, you can go play it, and things learned from it and experienced in it inform the new game (Hence N&, Carnifex, pistols and the general visual aesthetic as seen to date). Bioware has just chosen to let the endings remain as is for good or ill and move on. A solid decisions since in the past, when they given into fan demands it hasn't always worked out as those fans wished.

[MrFob]

They main character is confirmed to be a N7 Human, which has left some annoyed as they wanted to play another species.

 

That is news to me. As far as I was aware, it was only confirmed that the main character is human and the s/he is not the N7 seen in the trailer.

 

In any event, none of this tells us anything about whether or not BW is inclined to address the ending or not. I am convinced that they will not (i.e. that whoever goes to Andomeda will have left the MW before the ME3 endings). After all, why else would the writers go through all the trouble of sending us there?

[Nohvarr]

I don't have the quote but Bioware has confirmed the N7 Marines are still in place, and since we are human it shows that the Earth Goverment (which I believe is the Alliance) will be our bosses in this installment as well. They main character is confirmed to be a N7 Human, which has left some annoyed as they wanted to play another species.

Link?

[Sartoz]

 Snip

 

If Bioware is ditching the MW for good then the choices made in ME1-3 are pointless since there is no point in saving it, the reapers might as well win.

 

                                                                                      <<<<<<<<<<()>>>>>>>>>>

 

How can anyone say that?  There were eight possible choices but only three stand out. Destroy, Control and Synthetics. The player had to choose one. End of story. End of trilogy.

 

Sure, I didn't like those endings. I still don't. However, if you think about it, there was an end to ME3. Those endings, btw, were quite clear and so is the state of the galaxy, civilization wise, based on the decision made.

 

Destroy = Reapers die.

Control = Sheps becomes god-like and determines how organics - synthetics grow and live.

Synthesis = Organics and Synthetics merge in a happy never never land.

 

Your'e interested in politics? Obviously

Destroy = Civs pick up the pieces and then same old same old

Control = Civs probably are smoking weed and the Citadel is run by Hippies

Synthesis = Citadel is run by a government based on logic.

 

Why would Bio make a sequel based on three totally different outcomes? Shep's raison d'etre ends with ME3. Surely you must recognize this

[AlanC9]

 
If the endings were such a problem (meaning they broke the galaxy), then obviously they could just fix/adjust the MW story moving forward to the new game to continue there instead of ignoring the issue altogether and moving to another galaxy.

I think you're confused. The problem isn't that Bio can't just pick an ending and go from there, the problem is that Bio considers that approach to be unacceptable. They want all the winning endings, and the earlier choices too, to still be possible world-states.

[Il Divo]

I think you're confused. The problem isn't that Bio can't just pick an ending and go from there, the problem is that Bio considers that approach to be unacceptable. They want all the winning endings, and the earlier choices too, to still be possible world-states.

 

In theory: for people who want all their games to take place in the same universe/continuity, this allows that to happen. As opposed to forced canons, alternate universes as per comic books, etc. 

[Nethershadow]

Ok so if this game was called M31 Rising then it would be better?

You miss my point I think, as if they called it that then it would most definitely be impacted on the sales front. The whole point of anyone creating a game attached to an IP is because the IP will automatically bring in an instant fan base which equals greater sales. If they named it M31 Rising then it would have nothing to do with Mass Effect IP. This is so hotly debated because this game is advertised under the Mass Effect IP, but yet the majority of the IP is being swept under the rug. So far the only thing associated to it is the N7 Human in armor which some believe may have nothing to do with Earth government

 

Correct me if I'm wrong (I could be misunderstanding this). But how is Mass Effect, in any sense different? What does where the stories are told have to do with anything? My point is that those are in fact different stories.

 

Star Wars was a trilogy that essentially finished. As was Lord of the Rings. Further stories were created, but they didn't need to be for those particular trilogies to have reached a conclusion. The central conflict of both the protagonist and the narrative were concluded in those examples, as was Mass Effect's, which did indicate everyone was able to get back to their respective home systems. 

My point is that to tell another story in an IP, it needs to have the core things that make that IP, so in this case the N7 Humans, the core aliens (Asari, Krogan, Salarians, some space rats) that are strongly associated with it. If your story has none to very little of this then it just says to me they are trying to milk the IP's fanbase for sales when it should really just be turned into it's own game non related.

 

You meant to say "clusters" rather than "systems," right? Even so, this isn't really true. There's no range limit on standard FTL as long as your ship is equipped with fuel scoops. Journeying to Ilos without the Mu relay would have been impractical, but not impossible.

 
This is actually the opposite of what Bio's always said about choices. I wish Bio had adopted your policy, FWIW.


The conclusion doesn't follow. The exiles would be likely to keep their familiar governmental structures, wouldn't they?
 

Who's to say? Um... the writers, maybe?

MrFob made a good point in that it was tied to the relays which would suggest only the MW was affected.

 

Yes it would be the writers, but they haven't said hence why we are having this good discussion leaving use to conclude theories from the games logic.

 

When you say exiles, you are referring to the N7 Humans for the new trailers? Did i miss something that said they were exiles? As I know Bioware has said that the N7 Marines are in.

[Nohvarr]

Still waiting on that link.

[AlanC9]

In theory: for people who want all their games to take place in the same universe/continuity, this allows that to happen. As opposed to forced canons, alternate universes as per comic books, etc.

Agreed. I'm against the approach in this particular case, but I can see that it has benefits.

[AlanC9]

When you say exiles, you are referring to the N7 Humans for the new trailers? Did i miss something that said they were exiles? As I know Bioware has said that the N7 Marines are in.

I'm still proceeding from the assumption that travel to Andromeda will be one-way only. Hence, exiles.

[Arcian]

Well actually it does speak for itself and you just explained why.

 

If the endings were such a problem (meaning they broke the galaxy), then obviously they could just fix/adjust the MW story moving forward to the new game to continue there instead of ignoring the issue altogether and moving to another galaxy.

 

To me this just shows they have abandoned the Trilogy to start with a clean slate and not have to spend time and money on making sure they connect the dots of history. Well then why give us N7 Humans in the new galaxy if they don't want anything to do with it? Because without the N7 Human there would be nothing to tie the new game into the Mass Effect IP. So they want to run off the success of Mass Effect IP to make sales but they don't want to use very much at all from Mass Effect in the new game.

[Nethershadow]

Why bother? by going back and "Fixing" the endings they run the risk of nullifying player choice. Moving to a new galaxy would likely occur even if the endings were beloved, because it avoids anymore retconing, something fans have been yelling at Bioware about since Mass Effect 2.

 

 

 

Because they haven't "Abandoned" the trilogy. It exists, you can go play it, and things learned from it and experienced in it inform the new game (Hence N&, Carnifex, pistols and the general visual aesthetic as seen to date). Bioware has just chosen to let the endings remain as is for good or ill and move on. A solid decisions since in the past, when they given into fan demands it hasn't always worked out as those fans wished.

When I say fix / adjust, I by no means suggest changing anything at all. I am actually very fine with how they ended the trilogy with the exception of moving forward from that point. What is important to me in this regard is that continued games under the Mass Effect IP use the things I love about it, the N7 brand, the aliens and the amazing story Sheperd went through being an identifiable part of the games history.

 

Actually what you described is just that, abandoned. Leaving the ending in such shambles and launching a new game under the IP without addressing the connections / issues created from the major source of the IP means they have abandoned it. 

 

That is news to me. As far as I was aware, it was only confirmed that the main character is human and the s/he is not the N7 seen in the trailer.

 

In any event, none of this tells us anything about whether or not BW is inclined to address the ending or not. I am convinced that they will not (i.e. that whoever goes to Andomeda will have left the MW before the ME3 endings). After all, why else would the writers go through all the trouble of sending us there?

Correct to the first part, but they have also said that you play a N7 human that isn't the one in the trailer.

 

Completely agree. We will have to wait and see, then probably bish and complain then

[Nethershadow]

In theory: for people who want all their games to take place in the same universe/continuity, this allows that to happen. As opposed to forced canons, alternate universes as per comic books, etc. 

You have hit a feeling I've had about those kinds of things right on the head. I guess I just want it to be a clean and neat tidy space. I'm not a fan of most spaghetti writers that write for the same universe for this reason.

[Zatche]

You miss my point I think, as if they called it that then it would most definitely be impacted on the sales front. The whole point of anyone creating a game attached to an IP is because the IP will automatically bring in an instant fan base which equals greater sales. If they named it M31 Rising then it would have nothing to do with Mass Effect IP. This is so hotly debated because this game is advertised under the Mass Effect IP, but yet the majority of the IP is being swept under the rug. So far the only thing associated to it is the N7 Human in armor which some believe may have nothing to do with Earth government

My point is that to tell another story in an IP, it needs to have the core things that make that IP, so in this case the N7 Humans, the core aliens (Asari, Krogan, Salarians, some space rats) that are strongly associated with it. If your story has none to very little of this then it just says to me they are trying to milk the IP's fanbase for sales when it should really just be turned into it's own game non related.

From what we know, MEA will have those things. A Krogan was in the trailer. We can safely assume that many of the other core races will also be in. Similar weapons and armor are in. Pretty sure biotic are in. It's in the same continuity. It looks like Mass Effect to me.

[Nohvarr]

When I say fix / adjust, I by no means suggest changing anything at all. I am actually very fine with how they ended the trilogy with the exception of moving forward from that point. What is important to me in this regard is that continued games under the Mass Effect IP use the things I love about it, the N7 brand, the aliens and the amazing story Sheperd went through being an identifiable part of the games history.

 

Actually what you described is just that, abandoned. Leaving the ending in such shambles and launching a new game under the IP without addressing the connections / issues created from the major source of the IP means they have abandoned it. 

That I believe.
 

Bioware is using images, themes, history and more from the original trilogy, but since they've decided not address the endings in a manner you wish they are abandoning the previous trilogy.....not buying it.

[Cyonan]

When I say fix / adjust, I by no means suggest changing anything at all. I am actually very fine with how they ended the trilogy with the exception of moving forward from that point. What is important to me in this regard is that continued games under the Mass Effect IP use the things I love about it, the N7 brand, the aliens and the amazing story Sheperd went through being an identifiable part of the games history.

 

Actually what you described is just that, abandoned. Leaving the ending in such shambles and launching a new game under the IP without addressing the connections / issues created from the major source of the IP means they have abandoned it. 

 

How do you propose they fix it without A. making one set of choices canon and B. making half the game be about addressing all the different paths?

 

The point of Andromeda is that there is simply too many branching paths with too big of an impact after Mass Effect 3 that they don't want to get tied down in spending half the game addressing them. Personally I'd rather get a new story rather than BioWare's attempt to clean up the original trilogy.

 

Also we've had only 1 announcement trailer that was 2 minutes long, half of which is just showing us concept art with Johnny Cash in the background. It's a bit early to be acting like just because you haven't seen an Asari in the trailer that means they're absent from the game.

[Zatche]

When I say fix / adjust, I by no means suggest changing anything at all. I am actually very fine with how they ended the trilogy with the exception of moving forward from that point.

If we're not to leave the MW, and we're not retroconning the ending. how would you have proposed we move forward? Pick a Canon ending as Alan proposes?

Or do you think there could really be a coherent story to tell that would take place no matter whether you picked Destroy, Control, or Synthesis?

[The Night Haunter]

If we're not to leave the MW, and we're not retroconning the ending. how would you have proposed we move forward? Pick a Canon ending as Alan proposes?

Or do you think there could really be a coherent story to tell that would take place no matter whether you picked Destroy, Control, or Synthesis?

Sure. It is easy, watch:

 

20 Years after Priority Earth a terrorist sneaks on the Citadel and activates the Catalysts Destroy option ('cause Shep forgot to take out the keys), this homogenizes Synth and Control with Destroy and gives a unified starting spot. It isn't technically retconning, it is just the Dev forcing an ending on us regardless of what we actually picked (which kinda reflects real life, since its not like everyone else in the universe is just gonna sit there and accept what ever Shep wants).

 

Now that would be awful, but it is doable. I personally am overjoyed that we get to visit a new galaxy and leave all that crap from ME3 behind.