1395 réponses à ce sujet

[Drone223]

Bullsh*t.

 

Going into ME3 they were faced with a lot of variables. Essential characters could have been dead because of the suicide mission. People could have sold Legion to Cerberus. People could have not opened Grunt's tank. Hell, even Shepard could have died, which of course ended up in a non-importable situation. But really they should have made you play Kaidan or Ashley and had a stooge fill in for them in the coup, and your only squadmates would be James and Liara.

 

Next: did you kill the Geth? Or did you kill the Quarians? or did you make peace? Each of these requires a different galactic situation unless you trivialize the races.

 

Next: is Wrex alive? or is Wreav in charge? did you cure the genophage? or didn't you? This one is a bit sticky because the Krogan will overpopulate their planet in 10 years, and if Wreav is in charge you have a new Krogan rebellion.... which brings us to the elephant in the room....

 

The ending..... They are not going to make three different games to satisfy everyone. They are not going to make destroy the canon ending. They are not going to make synthesis the ending. And they are not going to make control the ending. Plus all of the mass relays are fubared... severely damaged.... and will take centuries and quadrillions of credits to rebuild. Just think about how much rebuilding the Citadel will cost. The civilizations have more pressing matters like providing food, fresh water, and electricity to their remaining populations. Travel will be restricted to local clusters. The galaxy is a wasteland.

 

There is no way to deal with this without throwing out our choices and setting canons. I can guarantee you that if they did that no one would be happy.

 

But I killed Shepard in my last play of Mass Effect 3. I finally got closure on the series. Shepard jumped into the green beam. EDI is alive and not alone and had 12 iChildren with Joker. Even Wreav is happy now. It's time to bury Shepard and move on.

 

There are those of us who just want a well written story with good game mechanics.

Ignoring the problems they created shows that they've learned nothing from them they'll just end up making the same mistakes again.
 

[Kabooooom]

Ignoring the problems they created shows that they've learned nothing from them they'll just end up making the same mistakes again.

I haven't seen you, or anyone for that matter, propose a satisfactory way that they could simultaneously address all divergent states of the galaxy while also not canonizing an ending.

Because it can't be done.

Like at all.

And so we are left with two choices: Canonize an ending and keep the setting in the MW. Or move the setting to some region of space that is completely divorced from the prior setting. That's it. There are no other true options for a "sequel" set in the same timeline as the Reaper war. And if you think there are other options that aren't completely stupid, I would like to hear them.

Personally, I would rather move the setting than canonize an ending. I guess you would disagree, judging from your posts. That's fine, of course, but I don't see a third option. So there's no use really in saying that they are running away and not addressing their mistakes...because the mistakes were so bad that they honestly can't address them in the way that you want them to.

[Drone223]

People complaining about a sci-fi game based on space travel actually letting you travel to a different part of space is ridiculous.

Except the issue's is the galaxy suddenly developing the ability to travel to another galaxy when its stated that the current FTL technology makes traveling to another galaxy impossible. The lore needs to be consistent with itself otherwise it becomes contrived and we end up with things such as Lazarus project and synthesis.

 

Andromeda is still in the ME universe, just a different galaxy. If you were expecting us to never leave the Milky Way it's your own fault for being so short-sighted. Space is way bigger than any one galaxy.

 

The issue with leaving ditching the MW forever is that the vast majority of the MW is unexplored, moving to another galaxy is just completely unnecessary. Not to mention ditching the MW forever defeats the purpose of saving it in the first place the reaper's may as well win.

[Kabooooom]

Except the issue's is the galaxy suddenly developing the ability to travel to another galaxy when its stated that the current FTL technology makes traveling to another galaxy impossible. The lore needs to be consistent with itself otherwise it becomes contrived and we end up with things such as Lazarus project and synthesis.

The issue with leaving ditching the MW forever is that the vast majority of the MW is unexplored, moving to another galaxy is just completely unnecessary. Not to mention ditching the MW forever defeats the purpose of saving it in the first place the reaper's may as well win.

I agree with the vast majority of the MW being unexplored. But in order to avoid canonizing an ending, the story would still have to take place entirely off the relay network...essentially exactly what they are probably doing with Andromeda. The only difference is, it would take place in the MW by name only. You still would never visit the Citadel, Tuchanka, Earth, or any other familiar world.

Is that really any different from what we are getting? No, it isn't.

[Drone223]

I haven't seen you, or anyone for that matter, propose a satisfactory way that they could simultaneously address all divergent states of the galaxy while also not canonizing an ending.

Because it can't be done.

Like at all.

And so we are left with two choices: Canonize an ending and keep the setting in the MW. Or move the setting to some region of space that is completely divorced from the prior setting. That's it. There are no other true options for a "sequel" set in the same timeline as the Reaper war. And if you think there are other options that aren't completely stupid, I would like to hear them.

Personally, I would rather move the setting than canonize an ending. I guess you would disagree, judging from your posts. That's fine, of course, but I don't see a third option. So there's no use really in saying that they are running away and not addressing their mistakes...because the mistakes were so bad that they honestly can't address them in the way that you want them to.

No one is expecting Bioware to come up with a satisfactory way of dealing with the endings, but rather that they show a willingness to deal with the problems they've created instead of running away and learning nothing from them.

[The Elder King]

No one is expecting Bioware to come up with a satisfactory way of dealing with the endings, but rather that they show a willingness to deal with the problems they've created instead of running away and learning nothing from them.

You'd prefer if They did that, as others. There Are others Who prefer that they went away from that situation instead of having a non-satisfactory way of dealing with the endings though.

[Kabooooom]

No one is expecting Bioware to come up with a satisfactory way of dealing with the endings, but rather that they show a willingness to deal with the problems they've created instead of running away and learning nothing from them.

That's the thing though, your argument can be summarized as: "Bioware should just address and deal with the mess they made"

But they CAN'T. You dont seem to get that there is literally no way for them to do that without canonizing an ending. Sure, you could counter with "well I'm not a writer, maybe a good writer could find a way". But that's a cop-out, because one minute of reflection on the matter would allow one to deduce that it is a problem that cannot be fixed except by two main choices that *some* people have a problem with: Canonize the ending or move the story.

There are no other options (and I group homogenizing the endings in the same category as canonizing, as it is basically the same thing). Again, if you can think of one, then present it.

[dreamgazer]

Wouldn't it be interesting if they just threw all the normal Mass Effect stuff in Andromeda without any explanation at all?

Look, there's a Citadel. There's a bunch of humans, who have an N7 program. Asari, krogan, eezo-powered ships ... all in Andromeda.

It wasn't an ark. It wasn't a wormhole. It was the writers saying: "F*ck it, put everything from X into Y."

[Drone223]

I agree with the vast majority of the MW being unexplored. But in order to avoid canonizing an ending, the story would still have to take place entirely off the relay network...essentially exactly what they are probably doing with Andromeda. The only difference is, it would take place in the MW by name only. You still would never visit the Citadel, Tuchanka, Earth, or any other familiar world.
 

Except having a game set outside the relay network in the MW wouldn't be contrived since its feasible and the past locations and past locations would still hold significance even if they aren't visited.

 

Going to another galaxy on the other hand is going to involve some contrived method of getting there and past locations will be refereed to as if they were part of a fairy tale.

[Iakus]

Wouldn't it be interesting if they just threw all the normal Mass Effect stuff in Andromeda without any explanation at all?

Look, there's a Citadel. There's a bunch of humans, who have an N7 program. Asari, krogan, eezo-powered ships ... all in Andromeda.

It wasn't an ark. It wasn't a wormhole. It was the writers saying: "F*ck it, put everything from X into Y."

Actually, I more than half expect the game to be exactly that.

[The Elder King]

Wouldn't it be interesting if they just threw all the normal Mass Effect stuff in Andromeda without any explanation at all?Look, there's a Citadel. There's a bunch of humans, who have an N7 program. Asari, krogan, eezo-powered ships ... all in Andromeda.It wasn't an ark. It wasn't a wormhole. It was the writers saying: "F*ck it, put everything from X into Y."

I'd enjoy the reactions to it .

[Valkyrja]

Ignoring the problems they created shows that they've learned nothing from them they'll just end up making the same mistakes again.
 

 

They could have done an analysis of the mistakes made from 2007-2012 but still value not setting a canon as a design principle over other things. It could also be a business decision that a soft-reboot will be the bring the most sales regardless of what they internally feel about the ending or other things.

 

Or it could be the personal preference of the developers. What if the new team at BioWare Montreal is more interested in doing their own thing than dealing with the unpopular mess of the ending and all the other trilogy baggage left by another developer that will be four years and generational transition ago by the time the game comes out?

[Iakus]

 

Or it could be the personal preference of the developers. What if the new team at BioWare Montreal is more interested in doing their own thing than dealing with the unpopular mess left by another developer that will be four years and generational transition ago by the time the game comes out?

I can sympathize with that mindset, especially given that mess that is ME3.  But this is not a new IP where you can set your own history and lore.  You have to work within the constraints of that setting.

[dreamgazer]

Or it could be the personal preference of the developers. What if the new team at BioWare Montreal is more interested in doing their own thing than dealing with the unpopular mess of the ending and all the other trilogy baggage left by another developer that will be four years and generational transition ago by the time the game comes out?

Bam. Same stuff, different galaxy. Screw your explanation. Humans 'n thangs are also in Andromeda. Mirror universe, parallel universe, whatever.

Deal with it.

[Iakus]

Bam. Same stuff, different galaxy. Screw your explanation. Humans 'n thangs are also in Andromeda. Mirror universe, parallel universe, whatever.

Deal with it.

If the character creator allows for a Sheploo with a goatee, I might be able to.  

[Drone223]

That's the thing though, your argument can be summarized as: "Bioware should just address and deal with the mess they made"

But they CAN'T. You dont seem to get that there is literally no way for them to do that without canonizing an ending. Sure, you could counter with "well I'm not a writer, maybe a good writer could find a way". But that's a cop-out, because one minute of reflection on the matter would allow one to deduce that it is a problem that cannot be fixed except by two main choices that *some* people have a problem with: Canonize the ending or move the story.

There are no other options (and I group homogenizing the endings in the same category as canonizing, as it is basically the same thing). Again, if you can think of one, then present it.

Bioware have already made certain choices canon in the past (Udina being councilor) so it wouldn't be far fetched for them to do it again. Bioware should focus more on making a consistent story even if it means setting a canon for one or two of the players choices since in the long run it makes for better story telling. Its going to be impossible for Bioware to respect every single choice since its just going end up hurting them eventually.

[blahblahblah]

The reason why those aren't considered space magic is because they are well explained to make them believable within the limitations of the universe. The only things in the ME series that are considered space magic are the poorly written aspects of the series.

LOL, well written? Don't make me laugh, you can't even tell how they even work to consider them as not space magicky.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Okay let's set the canon. Your choices don't matter. Here's the state of the Mass Effect Universe:

 

1) The Rachni are alive

2) Kaidan is the VS

3) The Genophage is cured with Wreav in charge

4) The Quarians are alive because Shepard didn't let Geth VI upload the code.

5) The Geth are dead because Shepard sold Legion to Cerberus

6) Shepard chose Synthesis.

 

Deal with it.

[Drone223]

LOL, well written? Don't make me laugh, you can't even tell how they even work to consider them as not space magicky.

They've been portrayed rather consistently throughout the series so the term space magic doesn't apply to them. When things end up breaking the lore or lose consistency the result is space magic.

[Andrew Lucas]

Optimism isn't BSN's thing.

[AresKeith]

Okay let's set the canon. Your choices don't matter. Here's the state of the Mass Effect Universe:

 

1) The Rachni are alive

2) Kaidan is the VS

3) The Genophage is cured with Wreav in charge

4) The Quarians are alive because Shepard didn't let Geth VI upload the code.

5) The Geth are dead because Shepard sold Legion to Cerberus

6) Shepard chose Synthesis.

 

Deal with it.

 

Ewww

[blahblahblah]

They've been portrayed rather consistently throughout the series so the term space magic doesn't apply to them. When things end up breaking the lore or lose consistency the result is space magic.

LOL, is that your self-defense to defend to space magicky lore of Mass Effect? You can't explain how they even work and telling me they are working consistently. Some people can't accept facts that Mass Effect's lore is space magic and complaining that travelling to Andromeda is inconsistent since they are leaving Milky Way? Double-Standards.

[dreamgazer]

Okay let's set the canon. Your choices don't matter. Here's the state of the Mass Effect Universe:
 
1) The Rachni are alive
2) Kaidan is the VS
3) The Genophage is cured with Wreav in charge
4) The Quarians are alive because Shepard didn't let Geth VI upload the code.
5) The Geth are dead because Shepard sold Legion to Cerberus
6) Shepard chose Synthesis.
 
Deal with it.

Sounds like a pretty interesting and relatively accurate world-state. I doubt BioWare would keep the rachni around, though, since they have two chances to die and aren't carried over in default conditions.

[KaiserShep]

Ignoring the problems they created shows that they've learned nothing from them they'll just end up making the same mistakes again.
 

Think of it this way. In Dragon Age, the Warden is a multi-state character that can be dead at the end of origins. As a result, this character will never return to the screen and will likely die off-screen before the series is through. And that's just one character, whose only variables are race and potentially romance. Imagine if instead you could end Origins by possibly allowing all of Ferelden to be a scorched wasteland. This would ensure that we never visit that country ever again, because the next game can't have an entire line of quests tied to whatever stories its existence or non-existence would create. 

 

I don't think that "problem" is the right word to use, because this would be a complication that they'd avoid even if everyone loved the ending and thought it was the second coming. 

[dragonflight288]

The vast majority of the galaxy is unexplored moving to another galaxy is just completely unnessary, there is still plenty to tell in the Mikly way.

 

And no part of the milky way, none, has not been affected by the crucible and its choices.

 

Yes, only 1% of the Milky Way is unexplored, and that's mostly due to the limits of Mass Effect Technology and how slow space travel actually is in regards to distance compared to just relay hopping.

 

I think that despite how little has been explored, all the reasonable explorable areas, by virtue of relay proximity, have been covered.

 

And if we stayed in the Milky Way, we'd have to take into account,

 

1. Genophage cure

2. quarians/geth, is one or both extinct?

3. entire new graphics of all characters if synthesis was chosen

4. Are the reapers flying around through either synthesis or control or are they destroyed?

5. What are the long term effects of things like, the Rachni existing or not not, the genophage being cured, or an alliance between Quarains and Geth?

6. Dealing with Leviathan's role in the galaxy now that they're discovered.

 

There are so many things that would have to be addressed, Bioware would be forced to make a canon ending and completely disregard player choice, which would lead to a crap-storm of great proportions, somehow tie-in all the resources needed to address every single issue, and every game-play bug that comes with having so many variations, as well as somehow have enough resources to make a quality game without pissing off a majority of the fanbase in some fashion and also include the resources to focus on new settings, characters and the plot, or they can start fresh in a new setting but in the same universe, and depending on the quality of the writing on how we expect to get to Andromeda, this is probably the best option overall.