58 réponses à ce sujet

[Krymzon74]

Sigh! I suppose it's too much to ask that people actually try to refrain from hyperbole when making arguments.  Wartable missions were a significant source of influence (they generally were either power-neutral or cost power).  The fact that you could gain influence through other means did not render them "useless".  And earning influence through the wartable was far easier than earning influence by buying a limited number of rather expensive items from a vendor.

 

And of course having to plant a flag and then go back is a mechanism used to give people more freedom of choice about where to go in the world while trying to keep a coherent story.  In other story based games (by Bioware and others) that area would simply be in another map or kept behind a story-locked door.  Power and wartable missions are a less heavy handed way of doing the same thing.  

 

Sometimes I feel sorry for game developers.  Their customers are often both obsessed and completely unwilling to think critically about the design choices made in their games.  This makes for an exasperating combination.

No. The whole war table thing just didn't need to be there. To me the whole thing was a rambling incoherent mess. They tried something new and I hated it. Simple as that.

[WillieStyle]

No one is saying you can't dislike a feature.  Saying, "I dislike the Wartable missions because they seemed tedious and/or excessively disconnected from the gameplay" is great.  It tells the developers what you didn't like about them and gives them hints as to how they can change them to achieve the same objectives while being more fun.

 

But saying, "Wartable missions are useless because you can buy power and influence from a vendor," isn't helpful.  If you're going to give feedback on Bioware's forum, don't you want it to be in a form that helps them make their games better?

[Vortex13]

No one is saying you can't dislike a feature.  Saying, "I dislike the Wartable missions because they seemed tedious and/or excessively disconnected from the gameplay" is great.  It tells the developers what you didn't like about them and gives them hints as to how they can change them to achieve the same objectives while being more fun.

 

But saying, "Wartable missions are useless because you can buy power and influence from a vendor," isn't helpful.  If you're going to give feedback on Bioware's forum, don't you want it to be in a form that helps them make their games better?

 

 

That was my biggest problem with the War Table mechanic.

 

 

On paper, it sounds like it would add a great level of nuance to your playthrough, to allow the player to really feel like they were in charge of some multi-national organization. In practice though, it had no impact on gameplay, and would tell the player that stuff happened rather than showing us what happened.

 

If I wanted a 'Choose Your Own Adventure' text story I would go to the library.

[Kabooooom]

That was my biggest problem with the War Table mechanic.


On paper, it sounds like it would add a great level of nuance to your playthrough, to allow the player to really feel like they were in charge of some multi-national organization. In practice though, it had no impact on gameplay, and would tell the player that stuff happened rather than showing us what happened.

If I wanted a 'Choose Your Own Adventure' text story I would go to the library.

Those choose your own adventure books were the absolute sh!t in like 1993 though. I used to love those things.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Destiny was a game designed in theory around the core concept of co-operative strikes/raids and people ate up the concept despite how cripplingly poor it was in overall execution. From a game design standpoint the PvE was downright amateurish (for reasons too numerous to mention which all essentially boil down to repetition and lack of variety/depth in pretty much every aspect).

 

Mass Effect: Andromeda is a story driven action-RPG first and foremost but the potential for co-operative raids in this series is so much more apparent for glaringly obvious reasons to anybody intimately familiar with ME3 MP. The ammo/power combo game mechanics in particular are genuinely built to incentivize sharing and foster co-operative play of which there is nothing of the sort to mention in Destiny. PvP shooter mechanics really don’t translate at all well to co-operative gameplay without considerable thought and attention which was certainly not paid which is why every raid in destiny is essentially the same terrible level over and over again.

 

Imagine Destiny done right and it would look a lot like Mass Effect because everything Destiny needed Mass Effect has in spades. Genuinely different subclasses, powers, factions - enemy types engendering radically different experiences dependant on squad makeup. There is a point to all of the different subclasses and they are all necessary to take down a huge variety of creatures with different types of protections engendering different strategies leading to vastly gameplay styles and experiences even in repeat playthroughs. Building on the solid foundation of ME3:MP adding in layers of puzzles, story and exploration into the horde mode would be absolutely revolutionary and a high water mark for co-operative multiplayer… could you imagine the crossover potential?

 

The biggest problem with Destiny is not it's core concept, it's the fact that 90% of it's plot is offline - meaning not in the game itself. And no one reads that stuff. You have Peter Dinklage completely wasted in his role, and it looks like about 80% of the plot was stripped from the game. The raids are fun. The strikes are fun. The multiplayer is well done. But the rest is an endless grind. That  and every single  time  they drop you in the exact same points on the map. Earth  you get  dropped at the same starting point. Same with the Moon. Same with Venus. Same with Mars. And the drops? The RNG sucks. Come on Bungie. FFS, you could have done this better.

 

The graphics and soundtrack are gorgeous, but that's not  enough. But maybe in another hour I'll get that exotic scout rifle I've been waiting for. Maybe. Just maybe. One more strike.

 

They could do Mass Effect Andromeda this way except actually put the plot in game along with a robust single player campaign. But will people say "Destiny clone?"

[Guanxii]

The biggest problem with Destiny is not it's core concept, it's the fact that 90% of it's plot is offline - meaning not in the game itself. And no one reads that stuff. You have Peter Dinklage completely wasted in his role, and it looks like about 80% of the plot was stripped from the game. The raids are fun. The strikes are fun. The multiplayer is well done. But the rest is an endless grind. That  and every single  time  they drop you in the exact same points on the map. Earth  you get  dropped at the same starting point. Same with the Moon. Same with Venus. Same with Mars. And the drops? The RNG sucks. Come on Bungie. FFS, you could have done this better.

 

The graphics and soundtrack are gorgeous, but that's not  enough. But maybe in another hour I'll get that exotic scout rifle I've been waiting for. Maybe. Just maybe. One more strike.

 

They could do Mass Effect Andromeda this way except actually put the plot in game along with a robust single player campaign. But will people say "Destiny clone?"

 

Elite remnant vault raids are merely one admittedly potentially great feature which are optional and then optionally co-op. Played co-operatively I’m sure will be radically different from Destiny  in game design terms for reasons described in the article – e.g. puzzles, actual objectives, different ai behaviors with actual tactics, protections, no damage sponge weakspot bosses, etc.

 

Hopefully you can explore the galaxy with buddies looking out for these vaults and level up together which sounds more than a little borderlandsy – having these kinds of experiences nowadays is important because it’s what the masses want judging by sales data and I’m sure EA want their own Destiny/Borderlands killer. I understand legitimate concerns of longtime fans who aren’t interested in co-op features and multiplayer 'taking over' who don’t want a traditionally story driven singleplayer action-RPG series they love slowly become a ‘Destiny Clone’ that’s perfectly reasonable but you guys need to appreciate that you may be BioWare’s bread and butter but you are not the whole loaf anymore.

 

I see so much more potential for this franchise after watching Bungie faceplant and still succeed. There’s clearly a thirst out there for story driven space exploration, customization & shared experiences and BioWare would be foolish not to reach out and grab it with both hands.

[9TailsFox]

Elite remnant vault raids are merely one admittedly potentially great feature which are optional and then optionally co-op. Played co-operatively I’m sure will be radically different from Destiny  in game design terms for reasons described in the article – e.g. puzzles, actual objectives, different ai behaviors with actual tactics, protections, no damage sponge weakspot bosses, etc.

 

Hopefully you can explore the galaxy with buddies looking out for these vaults and level up together which sounds more than a little borderlandsy – having these kinds of experiences nowadays is important because it’s what the masses want judging by sales data and I’m sure EA want their own Destiny/Borderlands killer. I understand legitimate concerns of longtime fans who aren’t interested in co-op features and multiplayer 'taking over' who don’t want a traditionally story driven singleplayer action-RPG series they love slowly become a ‘Destiny Clone’ that’s perfectly reasonable but you guys need to appreciate that you may be BioWare’s bread and butter but you are not the whole loaf anymore.

 

I see so much more potential for this franchise after watching Bungie faceplant and still succeed. There’s clearly a thirst out there for story driven space exploration, customization & shared experiences and BioWare would be foolish not to reach out and grab it with both hands.

I will not appreciate Bioware turning every game in pop something what is popular at this time. Why we need another Destiny and Warframe. Why we need Mass Effect: Destiny I want Mass effect be Mass effect but from looks off it we will get Dragon age: Inquisition in space. According to EA every game must have multiplayer but they are wrong look at Witcher 

[Guanxii]

I will not appreciate Bioware turning every game in pop something what is popular at this time. Why we need another Destiny and Warframe. Why we need Mass Effect: Destiny I want Mass effect be Mass effect but from looks off it we will get Dragon age: Inquisition in space. According to EA every game must have multiplayer but they are wrong look at Witcher 

The core audience will always have their singleplayer 'Mass Effect experience', but that alone will not satisfy the rest of the floating audience. Who's to say you cannot have your cake and eat it too? Satisfying Witcher and Warframe fans at the same time - who's to say that cannot be done but i'll believe it when I see it.

[Vazgen]

I don't like the idea one bit. And not because its coop but because its shallow. Vault raids for loot. Dead Space 3 coop experience featured story elements while what I see here is a boring "shoot enemies, grab loot" type mechanic. And if you don't go with friends, the mission will be even more boring than the N7 missions in ME3.