Eh.
It is what it is.
Now a 2 kilometer cuttlefish would have made a great Reaper, better than basing it on a Leaf Insect of all things. Imagine one of those, looking at you with those weird eyes while mesmerising you with its changing colours, all while spouting Reaper BS.
Guest_SynonymCinnamonSymomyn_*
Now a 2 kilometer cuttlefish would have made a great Reaper, better than basing it on a Leaf Insect of all things. Imagine one of those, looking at you with those weird eyes while mesmerising you with its changing colours, all while spouting Reaper BS.
The color change you mention would have been very interesting if the reapers used it to mind control. That reminds me of the Stephen King short story called "The Raft", where a huge, carnivorous, lake algae uses it to ensnare victims.
I thought the point was that Saren holds the key to the cure and that submitting to his will was a price too high. Holding the base was impossible and unless you have Cerberus download speeds and everything is nicely in one database saving the data wasn´t an option. A bit odd, that there wasn´t an option to at least save part of the data but well...
Well at least I thought that Wrex went along with it because he didn´t want the Krogans to be Sarens servants, not something like the good of the galaxy. At least it was presented this way, or is there a different dialogue in english?
Wrex's character arc is reflected in both his conversations and the Virmire situation. Wrex's normandy conversations center around his distinction that it's not the genophage that's killing the Krogan- it's themselves. Wrex's arc on the Krogan is basic fatalism: nothing will save the Krogan because they won't save themselves, and even his own father tried to kill him in the old archaic ways that got them into the mess. The reason Virmire is a flashpoint for Wrex is that because it's a potential change in the dynamic: the Krogan are the same, but the cure is what would save them.
Except, and this is explicit from the start- the STG and Shepherd are out to destroy Saren's cure. The goal isn't 'capture the Base' or 'steal the data'- the goal was to destroy it in a cover up so the genophage wouldn't be cured. Which would hit the point about Wrex having to accept that the cure isn't what will save his people- that they have to change themselves. If Wrex is fixated on the cure, he'll die just like the Krogan failures. If Wrex is talked down, then he's demonstrating putting other priorities before the Krogan.
It's not an explicit dialogue quote, but it is the thematic conclusion and consequence of his arc- as is it's continuation into ME2. Nowhere in ME2 does Wrex say what his position on the genophage is.... but his position, and his reforms, would be entirely impossible without the genophage in effect. If Wrex wasn't pursuing reforms as a necessity, he'd be a lot more popular with the traditionalists. Except Wrex is- and he's taking that view of the necessity of reform from somewhere- and that somewhere is ME1.
My eyes are perfect and they look waaaaay more like cuttlefish/some other cephalopod inspired thing than leaf nymphs.
I agree but Bio themselves said they were based off the bug.
Except, and this is explicit from the start- the STG and Shepherd are out to destroy Saren's cure. The goal isn't 'capture the Base' or 'steal the data'- the goal was to destroy it in a cover up so the genophage wouldn't be cured. Which would hit the point about Wrex having to accept that the cure isn't what will save his people- that they have to change themselves. If Wrex is fixated on the cure, he'll die just like the Krogan failures. If Wrex is talked down, then he's demonstrating putting other priorities before the Krogan.
It's not an explicit dialogue quote, but it is the thematic conclusion and consequence of his arc- as is it's continuation into ME2. Nowhere in ME2 does Wrex say what his position on the genophage is.... but his position, and his reforms, would be entirely impossible without the genophage in effect. If Wrex wasn't pursuing reforms as a necessity, he'd be a lot more popular with the traditionalists. Except Wrex is- and he's taking that view of the necessity of reform from somewhere- and that somewhere is ME1.
Shep told Wrex that the krogans in there are just tools used by Saren and he agrees. The STG wanted to blow up the base because of the cure, I wanted to blow it up because it´s Saren´s and maybe I misunderstood but just leaving was problematic because of the heavy defenses. And the STG wouldn´t go along with a quick smash and grab, especially if the grab part is the cure data.
ME 2: The cure wasn´t on the table, Maelon researched a possible cure and killed quite a few people.
ME 3: Well yeah his powerbase are the fertile women. OTOH he doesn´t know much about this inside source. If he doesn´t react will it contact someone else? He is the obvious partner but not the only one.
Also he needs something to persuade his people to actually fight for the turians and the humans. I don´t think they would have gone along with it otherwise. Wrex is bright enough to realize that sitting on Tuchanka won´t be a viable strategy. And this is Tuchanka, people voice their displeasure with their shotguns.
Also the situation has changed, the Reapers are there. If the war lasts longer, like in prothean times, the krogans need their high birthrate. And in the probably case that the Reapers win, there is a (very) slim chance that a few krogans can hide and repopulate.
So as son as the insider contacted him, ignoring it, wasn´t an option, if someone found out his powerbase would erode in one moment.
And well ithink he relly enjoyed having the council races over a barrel. 
With the whole reaper war thing, I just don't really have much incentive to care about the ramifications of curing the genophage. Yeah, maybe (likely) they'll harass the salarians and turians later, but whatever. At least the krogan would be easier to destroy. Dunno what Wrex is on about with this whole they know they'd win this time. Got no warships fool. They all have to get ferried to their battlefields via turian charter flights.
I'm probably more upset than most that they dropped anything further with Daro'Xen's desire to bring the Geth back under Quarian control. Especially considering Control was a theme and ending choice in Mass Effect 3.
I thought it was quite a common opinion that all the side-questing in ME1 is really tedious, but not detrimental to the package as a whole, because it's totally optional?
Personally I think the plot of ME2 is completely ridiculous and only ties in minor ways with the plot of the trilogy of the whole (i.e. Reapers vs. the galaxy). I love the game, don't get me wrong, but I still think you could have cut out ME2 in its entirety (including the death & revival of Shepard), and replaced it with a three year timeskip, and ME3 would mostly still make sense.
The side questing in ME1 was tedious because they made getting around in the Mako a pain in the ass. People tend to blame the Mako but I blame the map design. They were too big for how little there was and you often had to go over some pretty rough terrain. Not that we needed a clear, flat path to everywhere, but a middle ground would have been nice
You're right about ME2. Shepard's death and the Normandy's destruction were not only meaningless, but the game ditched what made both special in the first place: the Prothean visions and stealth respectively. And, as you said, it didn't advance the overall plot in the least bit. The characters were what made that game worth anything.
I agree but Bio themselves said they were based off the bug.
I don't even care, they look like cuttlefish. It doesn't help that their originator race lives underwater and are basically giant squid things.
Guest_Jackwave_*
The Heretic of Time, on 05 Jul 2015 - 7:54 PM, said:
Also, I LOVE this piece of (official) concept art of "Reaper Shepard" and Ashley. Why didn't BioWare use any of this good stuff in the final game? 
Personally, I would have loved something like this too. It would have added an"Absolute power corrupts absolutely" theme.
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As for my outlandish opinions...
-Kaidan and Ashley had the most interesting and complex relationship with Shepard.
-I kinda disliked Shepard, paragon or renegade.
-Shepard's clone was the most sympathetic character in the series.
The side questing in ME1 was tedious because they made getting around in the Mako a pain in the ass. People tend to blame the Mako but I blame the map design. They were too big for how little there was and you often had to go over some pretty rough terrain. Not that we needed a clear, flat path to everywhere, but a middle ground would have been nice
You're right about ME2. Shepard's death and the Normandy's destruction were not only meaningless, but the game ditched what made both special in the first place: the Prothean visions and stealth respectively. And, as you said, it didn't advance the overall plot in the least bit. The characters were what made that game worth anything.
Side questing in ME1 also was a counter-intuitive activity, since it challenged the central premise of the core plot: the Chase.
In ME1, the core plot is supposed to be a race against time, with Shepherd chasing Saren before he can do his villainous deeds. The missions are supposed to be relatively short suspense, and each time you get there it's more and more about a race before Saren can cover his tracks or pull of a gambit. Saren's enforcers are already there to get Liara. Benezia's already on her way to Noveria. Feros is under attack and under seige. The longer Virmire is operational, the larger a Krogan army Saren gets. Ilos is such a narrow margin of timing that Shepherd nearly squashes Saren with the mako.
It's supposed to be gripping and dramatic catchup... which makes no sense to randomly go to unrelated planets for things utterly unassociated with helping stop Saren, and to spend great amounts of time doing movement in empty areas.
ME1's model of sidequesting would have made far, far more sense in ME2, when Shepherd's default state is 'idling and waiting for an opportunity,' with a narrative emphasis on 'preparing and building the team.' Non-core plot missions make sense in thsi context, because not only can you not address the core plot in most cases, but there are reasons not to.
ME2's model of side questing would have, from a thematic perspective, been better. The N7 missions were short, to the point, and even the ones not directly tied into Saren could have had benefits associated with doing so. That crime lord quest chain would have been an offer to get underworld assistance in tracking Saren. Anti-Geth missions would have focused on trying to determine why Saren's Geth allies are working with him. Anti-merc missions being taking upport Saren's support base. And so on.
Yeah, I never really understood how ME1's sidequests and exploration made any sense given the plot. We've got to stop Saren/Sovereign ASAP....so excuse me while I go do some off-road driving on an unsuveryed planet for a couple of weeks....
Not that ME is alone with this flaw, most RPGs which give you a significant amount of freedom to do content away from the main plot suffer from exactly the same problem (DA:I for exmaple), but ME's implementation was pretty bad.
Yeah, I never really understood how ME1's sidequests and exploration made any sense given the plot. We've got to stop Saren/Sovereign ASAP....so excuse me while I go do some off-road driving on an unsuveryed planet for a couple of weeks....
Not that ME is alone with this flaw, most RPGs which give you a significant amount of freedom to do content away from the main plot suffer from exactly the same problem (DA:I for exmaple), but ME's implementation was pretty bad.
There was one notable exception to that, there was a side quest chain in ME1 that involved putting a stop to a Geth incursion into a star cluster. They should've had more side-quests like that, with perhaps that having an effect on the outcome of the BOTC?
There was one notable exception to that, there was a side quest chain in ME1 that involved putting a stop to a Geth incursion into a star cluster. They should've had more side-quests like that, with perhaps that having an effect on the outcome of the BOTC?
While that side quest had some connection to the plot even it is far less important that stopping Saren/Sovereign, especially as you always have a direct lead on them. For "sidequests" to make sense in a story like ME1 where the basic principles imply a degree of time constraint is to either a: have situations where you don't know what your enemies are doing and have time to do stuff other than the main plot, or b: don't have a distinction between plotquests and sidequests. Just have "quests", some of which might help advance the story, some of which won't, but there's no way to tell beforehand. Have all sorts of stuff as "possible leads" as to what is going on.
There was one notable exception to that, there was a side quest chain in ME1 that involved putting a stop to a Geth incursion into a star cluster. They should've had more side-quests like that, with perhaps that having an effect on the outcome of the BOTC?
There also the quest to te retrieve the data from a spy satellite from Eletania that was gathering data on increasing geth activity in the same cluster as Feros.
While that side quest had some connection to the plot even it is far less important that stopping Saren/Sovereign, especially as you always have a direct lead on them. For "sidequests" to make sense in a story like ME1 where the basic principles imply a degree of time constraint is to either a: have situations where you don't know what your enemies are doing and have time to do stuff other than the main plot, or b: don't have a distinction between plotquests and sidequests. Just have "quests", some of which might help advance the story, some of which won't, but there's no way to tell beforehand. Have all sorts of stuff as "possible leads" as to what is going on.
The "race against time" doesn't kick-off until two plot worlds have been completed, but yeah exposition on time was somewhat shoddy.
Interestingly enough, about 2/3 of the UNC quests are given to Shepard by Hackett and they more or less always begin like this "We noticed you've entered the X system, would you please take care of Y before continuing with your super important mission". Not that it's much of an excuse, but it implies that the Alliance is trying to take full of Shepard's spectre position. Other than that the UNC quests mostly serve as world building mechanic, they give us quite a lot of expostion on the setting and the workings on the universe. Ironically enough, a good deal of the UNC quests are about alliance screwing things up, whether it's Human Biotics terorist or Rogue Alliance black ops groups.
The "race against time" doesn't kick-off until two plot worlds have been completed, but yeah exposition on time was somewhat shoddy.
Interestingly enough, about 2/3 of the UNC quests are given to Shepard by Hackett and they more or less always begin like this "We noticed you've entered the X system, would you please take care of Y before continuing with your super important mission". Not that it's much of an excuse, but it implies that the Alliance is trying to take full of Shepard's spectre position. Other than that the UNC quests mostly serve as world building mechanic, they give us quite a lot of expostion on the setting and the workings on the universe. Ironically enough, a good deal of the UNC quests are about alliance screwing things up, whether it's Human Biotics terorist or Rogue Alliance black ops groups.
Well, by the time you actually get to go out into the galaxy and chose what to do, you know that that Saren is working with the Reapers to find the Conduit and do something pretty bad. Sounds like a "race against time" to me, even if it isn't explicitly labelled as such. And while they way you get those quests makes a degree of sense....what exactly are you doing in those systems in the first place? You've got a galaxy to save, and you know where you need to go to save it. There's just no logical justification to go to any of the sidequest/exploration planets given the circumstanes you're in.
Outlandish Opinion: I would have preferred a Batarian squadmate over Zaeed or James. In fact, Zaeed would have had nothing about his character change if he was a Batarian; well aside from us having another human companion character.
I'll bite, though I don't think this opinion is weird or outlandish except in the popular opinions of this forum (which themselves are usually weird and outlandish by RL standards.)
Allowing the geth to have Reaper code is the single most optimistically stupid decision a Shepard can make in the entire series, even moreso than recruiting Morinth or curing the Genophage with Wreav. You are allowing them eventual (when they rebuild their numbers) ascendancy over every lifeform in the galaxy except the Reapers with literally no known means of countering this new shift in the balance of power. It's akin to going back in time and giving nuclear weapons to a single society in the Dark Ages. The political system won't even be able to balance itself via the organics all bandwagoning like with the Protheans vs the Zha'til, because the geth were already one of the dominant powers in the galaxy before the upgrade, and it increases their individual processing power by a factor of hundreds or thousands, putting them completely out of reach on a different Kardashev tier from organics. It doesn't matter what you think geth intentions are, you just made every organic species including your own either a client race of the machines or put them on the path to extinction via an inevitable conflict. Even if you manage to remove the Reapers, you will just be replacing one machine overlord with another, albiet the cage you live in might be slightly more gilded if you trust geth motives.
Of course, the endings completely trivialize this each in seperate ways (destroying the geth anyway because reasons, dominating them and everyone else with an even more advanced machine race, or....whatever the fuсk nonsense synthesis does), but you don't know that at the time you are making the decision to allow the Reaper code upgrades. A more sane option of getting the needed resources would have been to threaten the geth with destruction via Xen's weapon if they do not submit to your control and allow themselves to be reprogrammed. Then you still get most of their useful contributions to the war without as much of the danger (because without upgrades they are helpless and can be easily destroyed anyway if they manage to reneg) or the assurance of appeasement to eventual machine dominance.
I'll bite, though I don't think this opinion is weird or outlandish except in the popular opinions of this forum (which themselves are usually weird and outlandish by RL standards.)
Allowing the geth to have Reaper code is the single most optimistically stupid decision a Shepard can make in the entire series, even moreso than recruiting Morinth or curing the Genophage with Wreav. You are allowing them eventual (when they rebuild their numbers) ascendancy over every lifeform in the galaxy except the Reapers with literally no known means of countering this new shift in the balance of power. It's akin to going back in time and giving nuclear weapons to a single society in the Dark Ages. The political system won't even be able to balance itself via the organics all bandwagoning like with the Protheans vs the Zha'til, because the geth were already one of the dominant powers in the galaxy before the upgrade, and it increases their individual processing power by a factor of hundreds or thousands, putting them completely out of reach on a different Kardashev tier from organics. It doesn't matter what you think geth intentions are, you just made every organic species including your own either a client race of the machines or put them on the path to extinction via an inevitable conflict. Even if you manage to remove the Reapers, you will just be replacing one machine overlord with another, albiet the cage you live in might be slightly more gilded.
Of course, the endings completely trivialize this each in seperate ways (destroying the geth anyway because reasons, dominating them and everyone else with an even more advanced machine race, or....whatever the fuсk nonsense synthesis does), but you don't know that at the time you are making the decision to allow the Reaper code upgrades. A more sane option of getting the needed resources would have been to threaten the geth with destruction via Xen's weapon if they do not submit to your control and allow themselves to be reprogrammed. Then you still get most of their useful contributions to the war without as much of the danger (because without upgrades they are helpless and can be easily destroyed anyway if they try to reneg) or the assurance of appeasement to eventual machine dominance.
Destroying the Collector base and the "refuse" ending are far more moronic.
As for the Geth, I wiped them out right then and there on Rannoch. The piper had to be paid over their being a reaper client race for several years and since there wasn't an option to control them via Admiral Xen's and/or Gavin Archer's research, well, they had to go.
Destroying the Collector base and the "refuse" ending are far more moronic.
There are logical reasons for destroying the Collector base, such as the potential risk of indoctrination via contact with Reaper tech or inability to verify that Cerberus actions will be in concert with your objectives, not that I think they outweigh the gains. The reason Shepard gives, though, is utterly cringe worthy so yeah, there's a point to be made there.
Refuse.... you got me, but it's more a developer troll of all the self-righteous Paragon drones whining about the endings requiring too much compromise than a serious option, evidenced by the fact that it doesn't even exist without DLC.
Refuse.... you got me, but it's more a developer troll of all the self-righteous Paragon drones whining about the endings requiring too much compromise than a serious option, evidenced by the fact that it doesn't even exist without DLC.
Hey, they wanted the choice to refuse to use the Crucible. BioWare gave it to them, along with the expected, explained results. They even threw refusers a bone by assuring them that the next cycle defeated the Reapers with their help.
It also doesn't pop the endgame achievement. The non-canon FailShep ending in ME2 even did that.
Well, by the time you actually get to go out into the galaxy and chose what to do, you know that that Saren is working with the Reapers to find the Conduit and do something pretty bad. Sounds like a "race against time" to me, even if it isn't explicitly labelled as such. And while they way you get those quests makes a degree of sense....what exactly are you doing in those systems in the first place? You've got a galaxy to save, and you know where you need to go to save it. There's just no logical justification to go to any of the sidequest/exploration planets given the circumstanes you're in.
Saren working with the Reapers is really odd since his whole plot (supposedly) involves him bringing the back to the existence, don't confuse what the audience knows and what the characters know; Sovereign, at this point in the narrative still unnamed, could just be geth ship or have an entirely origin, all the character know is that it is a big ship and that it is likely very powerfull, as they've not seen combat yet.
When Shepard becomes a Spectre all s/he knows is that Saren's trying to find the conduit and that it might somehow related to the return of the reapers, supposedly hyper intelligent machines, who at this point are considerd more myth than fact. Even Tali admits that her knowledge of the Reapers are based on the interperation of a single geth's memory core, Notice how her exposition on the Reapers is not part of the audio recording anyway. My point here is that the Reapers at this stage of the plot could be anything and that it is simply way to soon to jump to conclusion. Saren and the Geth are a threat yes, but that threat is mostly based on the Geth's previous reputation.
Here's where Shepard's start to annoy me as well, after hearing Tali s/he just immediatly goes along with her story on the Reapers despite their being no real evidence to back it up, you might think of beacon vision as evidence but you got to remember that all those were are just a few vague, incoherent images Shepard admits s/he could make much sense off.
With meta knowledge it's easy to connect the dots and say the character's are acting stupid, but for the character it's just not as simple. The council and Alliance have good reason to be extremly skeptical of the Reapers when they're first brought up, Saren is a madman and the geth are formidable and dangerous foe, that was clear, but there's no reason to assume that the end of days is imminent. I certainly had no such feeling when I was playing ME1 for the first time after leaving the citadel, as the game progressed the situation escalates and it becomes a different story, though.
There are logical reasons for destroying the Collector base, such as the potential risk of indoctrination via contact with Reaper tech or inability to verify that Cerberus actions will be in concert with your objectives, not that I think they outweigh the gains. The reason Shepard gives, though, is utterly cringe worthy so yeah, there's a point to be made there.
That still not good enough reason to destroy the only thing that could potentially provide us with a means of stopping the Reapers(as of ME2).
It's bad enough that the galaxy is no better prepared than it was at the end of ME1 and that Shepard spent most of ME2 playing spectre therapist for inane daddy issues and fighting inconsequential sesame street mercs and with the game ending with the reapers arriving at the galactic gates. Destroying the CB makes an already pointless middle entry, even more pointless.
I'd also like to point out that in Bioware's infinite wisdom, making the capture of the CB optional is what ultimately lead to the crucible, and we all know how the fanbase loved that.
That still not good enough reason to destroy the only thing that could potentially provide us with a means of stopping the Reapers(as of ME2).
It's bad enough that the galaxy is no better prepared than it was at the end of ME1 and that Shepard spent most of ME2 playing spectre therapist for inane daddy issues and fighting inconsequential sesame street mercs and with the game ending with the reapers arriving at the galactic gates. Destroying the CB makes an already pointless middle entry, even more pointless.
I'd also like to point out that in Bioware's infinite wisdom, making the capture of the CB optional is what ultimately lead to the crucible, and we all know how the fanbase loved that.
I agree. The choice should have been:
Paragon - Give the base to the Council/Alliance
Renegade - Give the base to Cerberus
Of course that would require that the 3 game not have Cerberus go all Snidley Whiplash on us...
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