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[dreamgazer]

All indications from ME1 and ME2 suggest that the mad scientists of Cerberus would shoot themselves in the foot with the Collector Base. 

[Kaiser Shepard]

That still not good enough reason to destroy the only thing that could potentially provide us with a means of stopping the Reapers(as of ME2).

 

It's bad enough that the galaxy is no better prepared than it was at the end of ME1 and that Shepard spent most of ME2 playing spectre therapist for inane daddy issues and fighting inconsequential sesame street mercs and with the game ending with the reapers arriving at the galactic gates. Destroying the CB makes an already pointless middle entry, even more pointless.

 

I'd also like to point out that in Bioware's infinite wisdom, making the capture of the CB optional is what ultimately lead to the crucible, and we all know how the fanbase loved that.

 

Indeed, the base capture should've been mandatory at least, with the Paragon option being intending to deliver it to the Alliance/Council later on in ME3. Would've been more meaningful to either capture that base again from the Cerbies this time around, or to defend it from the invading xeno scum, than having the returning mission location being some base on Horizon of all places.

[Arppis]

- Super Mario 64. We got a cake baked JUST FOR US.
 

- Metal gear Solid 4.

 

. Mass Effect 2 if all your companions die. That is a glorious finale.

Bit off topic, but I felt like MGS4 finale could have been better if they would have stopped at the "fake credits".

 

I suppose players would have been angry about it, but I would have liked that bittersweet ending. The things that come after it, felt like they didn't work so well.

[Ahriman]

Outlandish Opinion: I would have preferred a Batarian squadmate over Zaeed or James. 

Not that outlandish actually, that was decently popular opinion after ME2 release. 

 

 

In fact, Zaeed would have had nothing about his character change if he was a Batarian; well aside from us not having another human companion character.

Exactly, besides Kelly still would sleep with him.

[Vortex13]

All indications from ME1 and ME2 suggest that the mad scientists of Cerberus would shoot themselves in the foot with the Collector Base. 

 

 

True, but BioWare had already committed to making Cerberus a full-fledged (and in some cases player supported) faction. It would have made more sense for them to continue to be frienemies than to completely go to the dark side in six months. 

 

I wouldn't have trusted them as far as I could throw them, but it would have at least been a more logical continuation of their arc than simply going: "We're bad now."

[Undead Han]

 

I suppose players would have been angry about it, but I would have liked that bittersweet ending. The things that come after it, felt like they didn't work so well.

 

I would have liked a bittersweet finale to the suicide mission as well. I think the finale of ME2 loses some of the emotional impact it might have otherwise had by giving the player an option to get everyone out unscathed. I consider the end game of ME1 to be superior in that regard, because Shepard's victory there isn't without cost. (Virmire)

 

Having said that, putting a suicide mission at the end of the second game at all was a mistake.  It created way too many variables, guaranteeing that in the next game many of the ME2 squad were going to have small and disappointing cameos. From a design perspective its best to save your suicide mission for the final mission of the final game.

[Vortex13]

I would have liked a bittersweet finale to the suicide mission as well. I think the finale of ME2 loses some of the emotional impact it might have otherwise had by giving the player an option to get everyone out unscathed. I consider the end game of ME1 to be superior in that regard, because Shepard's victory there isn't without cost. (Virmire)

 

Having said that, putting a suicide mission at the end of the second game at all was a mistake.  It created way too many variables, guaranteeing that in the next game many of the ME2 squad were going to have small and disappointing cameos. From a design perspective its best to save your suicide mission for the final mission of the final game.

 

 

I agree. 

 

 

The biggest problem with the Mass Effect trilogy (IMO) was that there were too many choices and variables that had to carry forward. You can't have that many outcomes and have any semblance of meaningful choice by the time the third game comes around.

[Seboist]

All indications from ME1 and ME2 suggest that the mad scientists of Cerberus would shoot themselves in the foot with the Collector Base. 

 

Bioware has a lack of creativity when it comes to creating plots, yes. That and "indoctrination!" are the most common mission plots.

 

Indeed, the base capture should've been mandatory at least, with the Paragon option being intending to deliver it to the Alliance/Council later on in ME3. Would've been more meaningful to either capture that base again from the Cerbies this time around, or to defend it from the invading xeno scum, than having the returning mission location being some base on Horizon of all places.

 

Not even sure what the point of revisiting Horizon was, it was a bland setting full of prefab buildings in ME2. Sanctuary could've literally be set anywhere and nothing would've changed.

[dreamgazer]

Indeed, the base capture should've been mandatory at least, with the Paragon option being intending to deliver it to the Alliance/Council later on in ME3. Would've been more meaningful to either capture that base again from the Cerbies this time around, or to defend it from the invading xeno scum, than having the returning mission location being some base on Horizon of all places.

 

Mandatory preservation of the base would also mean mandatory acceptance of the threat of Reaper-tech indoctrination on a massive scale, such as what happened with the derelict carcass.  Deciding to detonate the Collector base, when I do, has little to do with Shepard's auto-dialogued "sacrifice the soul of our species" ramblings. 

 

True, but BioWare had already committed to making Cerberus a full-fledged (and in some cases player supported) faction. It would have made more sense for them to continue to be frienemies than to completely go to the dark side in six months. 

 

I wouldn't have trusted them as far as I could throw them, but it would have at least been a more logical continuation of their arc than simply going: "We're bad now."

 

I think the fact that they over-exploited Reaper technology in hopes of better understanding the galaxy's enemy, and thus suffered the negative repercussions of that, makes it more complex than "We're bad now". There's a little sympathy earned there. 

 

Outlandish opinion: Cerberus' development (and expansion) into indoctrinated agents of the Reapers, regardless of the ending chosen in ME2, never really bothered me.  They were going to tap into what they could find no matter what, and they sure as hell had access to manpower. 

[Iakus]

All indications from ME1 and ME2 suggest that the mad scientists of Cerberus would shoot themselves in the foot with the Collector Base. 

I think you're being overly optimistic there 

[Seboist]

Mandatory preservation of the base would also mean mandatory acceptance of the threat of Reaper-tech indoctrination on a massive scale, such as what happened with the derelict carcass.  Deciding to detonate the Collector base, when I do, has little to do with Shepard's auto-dialogued "sacrifice the soul of our species" ramblings. 

 

 

I think the fact that they over-exploited Reaper technology in hopes of better understanding the galaxy's enemy, and thus suffered the negative repercussions of that, makes it more complex than "We're bad now". There's a little sympathy earned there. 

 

Outlandish opinion: Cerberus' development (and expansion) into indoctrinated agents of the Reapers, regardless of the ending chosen in ME2, never really bothered me.  They were going to tap into what they could find no matter what, and they sure as hell had access to manpower. 

 

The Leviathan DLC showed that everyone whom got indoctrinated in 1 and 2 was an idiot since indoctrination can be detected. Well, that and using drones to work on reaper tech is too extreme of a concept to consider.

 

Walters and Co can't into logic and consistency.

[Undead Han]

 

 

Outlandish opinion: Cerberus' development (and expansion) into indoctrinated agents of the Reapers, regardless of the ending chosen in ME2, never really bothered me.  They were going to tap into what they could find no matter what, and they sure as hell had access to manpower. 

 

That never really bothered me either.

 

Playing through Mass Effect 2 completely unspoiled I was expecting an indoctrination reveal for the Illusive Man anyway, with the creepy closeup shots of TIM's mechanical eyes, and the weird stab-in-the-back during the derelict Collector ship mission.

 

My only issues with Cerberus in ME3 were that they were overused, that TIM being indoctrinated was practically revealed at Mars instead of being a late game twist, and that Cerberus somehow conjured up a private fleet/army out of thin air. The indoctrination itself I was fine with.

[dreamgazer]

The Leviathan DLC showed that everyone whom got indoctrinated in 1 and 2 was an idiot since indoctrination can be detected.

Perhaps, but this cycle hadn't figured out how to detect it yet. Give them a century and they'd be doing it, too.
 

Well, that and using drones to work on reaper tech is too extreme of a concept to consider.

That'd be the smart way to go about it, but it's still a monumental piece of Reaper equipment with an unknown sphere of influence. Remember back to Eden Prime in ME1.

[Big Bad]

All indications from ME1 and ME2 suggest that the mad scientists of Cerberus would shoot themselves in the foot with the Collector Base. 

Well, they do seem to be perfectly competent scientists...but only when the plot requires them to be. 

[FlyingSquirrel]

I think Lair of the Shadow Broker is overrated for a number of reasons, and frankly cringe every time I see it rated the best mission ever.

 

1) There is only one opportunity to choose an *action*, which is how you deal with the hostage situation at the hotel, and the only consequence I can perceive is that you might end up without your heavy weapons for a little while.

 

2) Shepard's dialogue choices are fairly sparse and at most reflect a mildly different attitude, with little opportunity to express an actual opinion about something outside of the scene with Liara in the cabin.

 

3) Shepard is pushed in somewhat of a Renegade direction by default - there's no opportunity to respond to the wounded civilians asking for help outside the tower, the car chase could potentially get a lot of people killed if those cars are manned (though, to be fair, I can't actually see any drivers), and while you can tell Liara she's being cold when she says that hopefully the Broker's forces are tied up fighting Illium's security, you can't actually do anything about it.

 

4) Liara needlessly provokes the Broker with a borderline-racist comment about the Yahg.

 

5) Speaking of which, while it's more a problem with ME2 in general than LOTSB in particular, what the hell has happened to Liara? She was one of the most consistently idealistic crew members in ME1, even after helping to kill her own indoctrinated mother and seeing the Citadel trashed with probably hundreds of people killed in a Reaper attack that just barely failed, but then Shepard dying and having to outmaneuver the Broker to recover the body turns her all ruthless and cynical?

 

6) A falling piece of debris always knocks out the other squadmate, even if it's Grunt or Legion, but then whoever it is gets back up with no significant injury once the fight is over.

 

7) When Liara's gun doesn't work against the Broker, he just stands there and lets her talk to Shepard right out in the open with no cover, and Shepard then decides to try punching an enemy that must be at least 3-4 times his/her weight and size.

 

8) The Normandy dossier files are a little creepy. While some of them are amusing, I doubt many of the crew would want Shepard reading their private correspondences, and there's no real need for it since none of them have anything to do with the mission.

[themikefest]

I would have liked a bittersweet finale to the suicide mission as well. I think the finale of ME2 loses some of the emotional impact it might have otherwise had by giving the player an option to get everyone out unscathed. I consider the end game of ME1 to be superior in that regard, because Shepard's victory there isn't without cost. (Virmire)

 

Having said that, putting a suicide mission at the end of the second game at all was a mistake.  It created way too many variables, guaranteeing that in the next game many of the ME2 squad were going to have small and disappointing cameos. From a design perspective its best to save your suicide mission for the final mission of the final game.

One of my biggest problems with ME2 is having 12 squadmates. Why would I waste my time recruiting 12 when 8 is only needed to go through the relay and still have everyone survive?

[Undead Han]

One of my biggest problems with ME2 is having 12 squadmates. Why would I waste my time recruiting 12 when 8 is only needed to go through the relay and still have everyone survive?

 

ME2 did have too many.

 

That is why some characters have so little to say, including fan favorites like Garrus. If Shepard is male, or female but not boffing the bird, he has something like two conversations in the entire game. 

[AresKeith]

One of my biggest problems with ME2 is having 12 squadmates. Why would I waste my time recruiting 12 when 8 is only needed to go through the relay and still have everyone survive?

 

Tbh with 12 squadmates the Collector Base should've been divided up into 4 teams with different specialties 

 

That would've made choosing people more interesting

[Undead Han]

How's this for an outlandish opinion...

 

Bioware shouldn't have had a completely new squad in Mass Effect 2. I hate even typing that, since some of the ME2 characters are among my favorites, but that (combined with the SM at the end) created some of the problems with Mass Effect 3.

 

If Bioware ever goes the trilogy route again I hope they keep the same core group of squadmates through all three games, minus a casualty or two along the way and perhaps with an addition or two in each game.

[SilJeff]

Mass Effect 3's ending isn't as bad as some make it out to be

 

I like Mass Effect 3's insanity the most [come at me, pros I am just not that good at difficult things like Collector Base on insanity ]

 

Kai Lang would have made a great Blasto villain

 

When I'm commander shepard, I do NOT have a favorite store on the Citadel

 

Jenkins scares me

 

There should be fish on the presidium

 

It really makes me sad that there is no animation of the elevator door opening on the Normandy in ME3 outside of the Citadel DLC

 

I once wanted to kill Garrus on the Suicide Mission

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Another opinion I never see touted on the forums.

 

I think that the ME trilogy might have shown unpractical trilogies in gaming can be, at least for games that strives to be about "choices and consequences". I believe that if Bioware ever should try go create something like the ME trilogy again, they would be far better off making a duology instead of a trilogy. I imagine having a story only consist of two games would make it more possible for Bioware to have choices create a truly divergent storyline depending on what happened.

[Undead Han]

Another opinion I never see touted on the forums.

 

I think that the ME trilogy might have shown unpractical trilogies in gaming can be, at least for games that strives to be about "choices and consequences". I believe that if Bioware ever should try go create something like the ME trilogy again, they would be far better off making a duology instead of a trilogy. I imagine having a story only consist of two games would make it more possible for Bioware to have choices create a truly divergent storyline depending on what happened.

 

If they go the multi-game route again it might be better to do a duology than a trilogy. They'd only have address the variables from one game rather than two. 

[Vortex13]

That's a start, but I would go a step further and say that any future titles, and the choices that the player makes in those games need to be 'smaller'.

 

 

No more giving the player the power of God to decide if this species lives or dies, or if this galaxy is affected by this outcome. Keep the choices contained to one area, and only have them affect a system at most. Instead of giving the player the ability to sway the outcome of billions of lives, allow them to only determine the fates of close allies, or personal rivals.

 

 

 

That was one of the core problems with Mass Effect, and one that tied directly into the imported world states: Epic Bloat. 

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

If they go the multi-game route again it might be better to do a duology than a trilogy. They'd only have address the variables from one game rather than two. 

 

Exactly. The first game would introduce us to the story, main character and the cast. It would have a main plot that has several mandatory choices in the form of decisions and possible deaths of important characters. The second game also being the last, could then take some of those choices and have the game truly be divergent depending on what happened in several areas.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

That's a start, but I would go a step further and say that any future titles, and the choices that the player makes in those games need to be 'smaller'.

 

 

No more giving the player the power of God to decide if this species lives or dies, or if this galaxy is affected by this outcome. Keep the choices contained to one area, and only have them affect a system at most. Instead of giving the player the ability to sway the outcome of billions of lives, allow them to only determine the fates of close allies, or personal rivals.

 

 

 

That was one of the core problems with Mass Effect, and one that tied directly into the imported world states: Epic Bloat. 

 

A smaller main cast should also be in place, something like ME2's 12 party members is a no-go.