153 réponses à ce sujet

[LoRD KYRaN]

It's not really logical for the PC to not be special or become special. I mean for the game to stand, you're gonna have to be doing something special. Who wants to play a game where you're the nameless soldier in an army? Few, I bet. So, for there to be a story, there has to be a strong antagonist which the PC overcomes. Which, would already make the PC "special" somewhat. I think ME1 Shepard was a clear example of that. When you chose her background, she was an elite soldier auditioning to become a human Spectre. Basically, best of her batch of soldiers. Nothing much else. The beacon however, was her doing her job, just like any other soldier would. It wasn't because she was "special" that she had the visions; she got them because she completed her mission objective and then tried to save her subordinate. It's not "being chosen" IMHO, it's a consequence of her actions. No doubt her iron-will saved her but I would expect that of any soldier who is considered among the best of their generation. After that she went on to continue to do her duty and try to save the galaxy. That's all. Wouldn't any other soldier do the same?

 

I would argue that the Warden is the same. He did his duty and that saved him. Same as Hawke. And that's what they did for the rest of the games. Fulfill their duty, fight off monsters, protect the weak; just what any other soldier would do. It could have been anyone else in their position but right place, right time. Probably the most "special" thing about them was that they kept winning despite the odds. That made everyone believe they were the "Chosen Ones" but essentially, they were just damn good soldiers fulfilling their duty at all cost.

 

I hope the new PC is similar. Let us decide on the backgrounds, that should set up for her personality etc. And let the rest of the "specialness" be consequence of action. Just like Shepard. Actions do speak louder than words.

[The_Other_M]

I'd rather the new protagonist be a Hawke. I have no interest in playing some sort of messianic protagonist again anytime soon, it was absolutely cringe worthy. Bioware need to drop that nonsense. 

^^This

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

And no f***ing visions, no f***ing flash of alien technology that changes the person. Just someone like Hawke who is just Hawke. A person with a story. But of course people in RPGs don't like that kind of story. They need a special person.

 

It's getting dark. The rebels are about to start shelling our position soon. They do every year. The bombardment usually lasts about two hours.

[Massa FX]

I think I read somewhere from the devs that the main character won't be someone special at first, but will develop into a Leader as the player continues. 

 

Could be my errant memory playing games.

 

Can anyone confirm?

[Steelcan]

HEROISM

[NeonFlux117]

He should be like Geralt of Rivia. A bad a$$ super skilled and talented operative. But still JUST a man/woman. I agree with Jullia, no visions or "Shepardesque" things like that. Just a BAMF.

[The Heretic of Time]

He should be like Geralt of Rivia. A bad a$$ super skilled and talented operative. But still JUST a man/woman. I agree with Jullia, no visions or "Shepardesque" things like that. Just a BAMF.

 

I also like the fact that Geralt isn't the main focus in The Witcher 3, but Ciri is. We still play the game as Geralt and see everything through his eyes, but ultimately Ciri is the big hero in TW3 and Geralt is just her guardian parent.

That's something I'd like to see more, games where the player character isn't the big hero, but someone else in the story is.

[LiL Reapur]

Shepards are mostly notable for combat prowess

 

Shepard is a tank, but the amount of times "Plot" armor saved him/her is ridiculous. Especially when he/she got hit with that reaper beam that was the worse one.

 

So, what would you prefer for the new protagonist?

I do think that it makes the story work better if there's something that marks the protagonist out beyond them just being that awesome. It actually makes them feel less of a mary-sue

 

Someone unproven and unworthy that BECOMES a tank with time like literally just some guy (with no weapon or military training) from some planet from some family.....

anddddd we'll have a story to tell when it's over right?

[KaiserShep]

I agree with the Hawke sentiment. A badass gunslinger that's good at killing people and helping people.

[DebatableBubble]

I also like the fact that Geralt isn't the main focus in The Witcher 3, but Ciri is. We still play the game as Geralt and see everything through his eyes, but ultimately Ciri is the big hero in TW3 and Geralt is just her guardian parent.

That's something I'd like to see more, games where the player character isn't the big hero, but someone else in the story is.

 

Elder Scrolls IV did something along those lines. Was actually nice.

[LoRD KYRaN]

Shepard is a tank, but the amount of times "Plot" armor saved him/her is ridiculous. Especially when he/she got hit with that reaper beam that was the worse one.

 

 

Someone unproven and unworthy that BECOMES a tank with time like literally just some guy (with no weapon or military training) from some planet from some family.....

anddddd we'll have a story to tell when it's over right?

 

Isn't that even more illogical and more of a "chosen one" story than the current Shepard? Some no training, no experience person comes from out of the blue to be a hero? Save the world from something? With the power of his will I guess since he's got no training. That's even worse, imho.

 

They only way that flies is if MEA starts with the person as a young adult, going through some form of training, honing skills etc to become good. But logically, training of any sort, learning biotics and tech etc is going to take a lot of time, years probably. How much time is going to be devoted to this? I'd rather start with him already having got the experience and being a good soldier.

[HuldraDancer]

Another vote for the Hawke approach, not that I disliked the other approaches too but being more of a normal person whose's good at not dying pushed into these circumstances is more interesting to me than being the only one ever who can do this because divine fate. I mean obviously you're going to be some level of a special snowflake given your the main character but I like the idea of it making it feel like it just happened to be you but not done in the way DAI did even though it did do the 'you were just at the right place right time to get this thing that saves the day' kind of angle it didn't feel much like it to me at least. So yeah I'd like more of a Hawke level of special snowflakeness.

[LiL Reapur]

Isn't that even more illogical and more of a "chosen one" story than the current Shepard? Some no training, no experience person comes from out of the blue to be a hero? Save the world from something? With the power of his will I guess since he's got no training. That's even worse, imho.

 

They only way that flies is if MEA starts with the person as a young adult, going through some form of training, honing skills etc to become good. But logically, training of any sort, learning biotics and tech etc is going to take a lot of time, years probably. How much time is going to be devoted to this? I'd rather start with him already having got the experience and being a good soldier.

 

I'm not saying he'll be blowing up space stations and riding thresher maws, but the protagonist will get the basics of training (like during the in-game tutorial) then timeskip a few months ahead and he'll atleast be competent enough to use a weapon. If the protagonist has biotic abilities then they'll train in that too and build up from there on IN GAME. Also the main focus of Andromeda is exploration and colonization, not saving the galaxy (yet). So you can expect him to do more "realistic" things like wiping out a enemy platoon (with help of course, this ain't the skyliian blitz) to establish a new settlement or something. instead of traveling to the core of the galaxy fighting lord knows what. THAT's what i mean by him becoming a tank, your just comparing him to Shepard....

[Spectr61]

Please, no "coming of age" teen story.

This is not Space-Potter.

Space-Hawke, OK.

[LoRD KYRaN]

I'm not saying he'll be blowing up space stations and riding thresher maws, but the protagonist will get the basics of training (like during the in-game tutorial) then timeskip a few months ahead and he'll atleast be competent enough to use a weapon. If the protagonist has biotic abilities then they'll train in that too and build up from there on IN GAME. Also the main focus of Andromeda is exploration and colonization, not saving the galaxy (yet). So you can expect him to do more "realistic" things like wiping out a enemy platoon (with help of course, this ain't the skyliian blitz) to establish a new settlement or something. instead of traveling to the core of the galaxy fighting lord knows what. THAT's what i mean by him becoming a tank, your just comparing him to Shepard....

 

I'm not comparing to Shepard per say, but heroes in general. I do get where you're coming from though. You want the background to be playable too. To put it into the ME context, we start with the Alliance enrolment and training as the prologue, fast forward a few months/years, do a few missions then do something great like Torfan, the Skyliian Blitz to put the PC on the path to greatness and let her grow into the tank. Then fast forward again to the Reaper threat and the rest is history. Am I understanding you correctly?

 

Btw, no offense but let's not kid ourselves. We are going to be saving the world/galaxy from something. If it was going to focus on exploration and colonization, they'd have called it Mass Effect: Civilization. No way there isn't a huge threat to humanity that needs wiping out.

[LiL Reapur]

I do get where you're coming from though. You want the background to be playable too. To put it into the ME context, we start with the Alliance enrolment and training as the prologue, fast forward a few months/years, do a few missions then do something great like Torfan, the Skyliian Blitz to put the PC on the path to greatness and let her grow into the tank. Then fast forward again to the Reaper threat and the rest is history. Am I understanding you correctly?

 

Perfect. Pretty much, yea. Taking it slowly but in a believable fashion....

 

 

Btw, no offense but let's not kid ourselves. We are going to be saving the world/galaxy from something. If it was going to focus on exploration and colonization, they'd have called it Mass Effect: Civilization. No way there isn't a huge threat to humanity that needs wiping out.

 

 

Also the main focus of Andromeda is exploration and colonization, not saving the galaxy ( Yet )

 

I agree, i hinted at that. We all know something is going to "Threaten all organic life in the galaxy...." Eventually.... 

[animedreamer]

And no f***ing visions, no f***ing flash of alien technology that changes the person. Just someone like Hawke who is just Hawke. A person with a story. But of course people in RPGs don't like that kind of story. They need a special person.

 

It's getting dark. The rebels are about to start shelling our position soon. They do every year. The bombardment usually lasts about two hours.

 

I keep seeing people say this, then remembering the lore, and it just doesn't compute. You can't be a Alliance Marine who just happens to be some nobody who walked in off the street and is awesome, That is the ultimate Special Snowflake ala Mary Sue, John Stu. Either you trained like the thousands of other Alliance Marines to be good at what you chose to specialize in, and then got better and joined the N7 program and graduated like hundreds before or you are a normal janitor.  No one is going to put you in charge of a ship with the last refuges of humanity knowing that "well they are human and can hold a gun." and the game has to start at some point if they have a more immediate story to tell, instead of waiting for you to finish boot camp, take a apprehensive skill test of some kind to see what type of soldier you should be, wait for you to pick a specialization, do a year or so worth of training, get some real combat expense, hope you do will enough that someone recommends you for N7 Training, hope you make it through the N7 training which might take a few years as you have to go through each program which gets harder until you reach the final program and graduate.

 

So you have to accept the middle ground. You are Captain So and So, or Commander So and So, you are badass because you are a N7 graduate already. Let's start the game. Yes this makes you a special snowflake but one of hundreds (though that number is likely less now given the circumstances), even Jenkins is a special snowflake in that he was at least a trained and field tested soldier, just unlucky.

 

Also Hawke is the ultimate Mary Sue. Yes she didn't get hit with ultimate magic and survive only to be transformed or seen as special, or whatever else but just think about their backstory. Rogue or Warrior Hawke joins the War effort at Ostergar in order to get some money and hopefully a good position with in the kings army, basically trying to move on up. Now think about this, Hawke only had their mercenary father's training to go on, but still made it into the kings army, not only that but survived Ostergar, and managed to save their family and kill a Armored Ogre. pretty freaking impressive when say someone like the Warden had been trained since childhood in whatever class you picked for them, as well as real combat experience if say you picked a Dwarf Commoner, or Dalish Elf. Then Hawke is rescued by Flemeth herself and delivered to safety.. that doesn't sound like a Mary Sue to anyone else?

[Ahriman]

With power of save/load PC is already more than special, Leroy Jenkins could conquer the world with it, but the way they handled it in DAI was lame.

People: You're such and Andraste's Herald.

Inqy: For 10th time, I'm not!

People: We don't care, lol.

I'd leave this as an option to player. I personally would like to roleplay someone crazy.

PC: I'm the prophet of Shepard!

People: Yeah, sure, whatever, now open these Remnant ruins.

 

 no offense but let's not kid ourselves. We are going to be saving the world/galaxy from something. If it was going to focus on exploration and colonization, they'd have called it Mass Effect: Civilization. No way there isn't a huge threat to humanity that needs wiping out.

Eventually - certainly, but this is going to be introduction game, so I wouldn't be so sure about that.

[WildOrchid]

I'd rather the new protagonist be a Hawke. I have no interest in playing some sort of messianic protagonist again anytime soon, it was absolutely cringe worthy. Bioware need to drop that nonsense. 

 

If I could like this post a million times.......

 

Seriously, I'm so tired of "special cases" of protagonists. I like protagonists who sometimes fail and sometimes succeed in their actions, depending on your choices of course.

No more of this special snowflake.

[Medhia_Nox]

I'd love to see a protagonist who is actually excellent at 1) Leadership 2) Strategy 3) Communication.

 

I really don't feel like we've ever had someone like this. 

 

Even the Inquisitor - who was supposed to be the character to most likely possess these traits really didn't show these qualities outside of cutscenes.  To be fair - there WERE moments in Inquisition where they touched on this.  Moments when Cassandra, Cullen and Josephine and Leliana would argue and you would be the arbiter. MORE of this I say.  

 

There's an important characteristic in being a leader I've learned and it is this: Every person you have under your guidance should have one skill they are better than you at.  I totally believe this.  Where you should excel - is using their extraordinary talents to achieve greatness for the entire team.

 

The main character should be the focus for a reason, I absolutely agree with that - I just hope it's not something "magical". 

 

Maybe - during character creation you get to pick a "Specialization" (perhaps out of the top three even) and that's why you are where you are.  

 

And I do NOT want a big bad.  I want several little bads - and depending on what we choose throughout the game is the one we face off against.

[Dirgegun]

I personally want someone... normal, honestly. They can be a soldier or whatever is needed of them, but I don't want them to be a hero already. Shepard was already considered a hero right from the get go. It made sense for Shepard, seeing there had to be a reason they were put forward for the SPECTRES. I don't even mind protagonists that start as the best in their field! I just want that to be different this time. Let the game itself turn our character into a leader and hero, rather than already starting off that way. It leaves more opportunity for us to roleplay how their personality might develop too.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Even a normal soldier can become special, they just have to be in the right place at the right time. And succeed. Leaving those parts up to the player is a much better solution than giving you a famous war hero right from the start.

 

I would prefer if we were not in charge of the entire operation anyway. It's bad form to let the commanding officer lead the landing party.

[Ahriman]

I would prefer if we were not in charge of the entire operation anyway. It's bad form to let the commanding officer lead the landing party.

Tell that to Harby. Guy was always there to make sure that everyone will feel this.

[ruggly]

I'll take another Hawke.

[LoRD KYRaN]

I'm really curious as to how everyone views "specialness". Even if you start at bootcamp, there will be a moment that sets you apart from the rest. Some scenario in which you excel over your teammates. If it doesn't happen at bootcamp, it'll happen during a mission. Has to happen sometime to justify the protagonist being the protagonist. Would that be viewed as making you a special snowflake? Cos if that's the case, then the only way for the PC to not be a special snowflake is to be mediocre throughout the game. Basically playing as Robin to the games Batman. Which is really bad business cos I honestly doubt anyone wants to play second fiddle in a game.

 

 

Even a normal soldier can become special, they just have to be in the right place at the right time. And succeed. Leaving those parts up to the player is a much better solution than giving you a famous war hero right from the start.

 

I would prefer if we were not in charge of the entire operation anyway. It's bad form to let the commanding officer lead the landing party.

 

As nice as that sounds, it does seem like something hard to implement. If say, for example, Shepard's ability to pass N7 training was left to player choice and the player fails, that completely destroys the game. No N7 training, no Torfan, no Spectre, no stopping the Reapers. That's asking for a completely different game than what the original was. But if you mean that you should be allowed to fail and the game then includes a write-around so it keeps going, that's even more unfair and a case of "special snowflake". We already do complain that our choices are meaningless or aren't really choices at all after all.