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[Absafraginlootly]

Warning: Spoilers for Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts and for The Masked Empire.

 

There are two things that I find really wrong with the wicked eyes wicked hearts quest/area (there are a lot of complaints but I'm going to focus on these two because they really get my goat.)

 

1.  How it intersects with The Masked Empire - I love the books, but you shouldn't have had to read them to get the full picture on a main quest choice. In the game, gone is the Celene who promotes education, cultural development and peaceful relations with other nations, but will purge an alienage and murder her entire household, including the parents of the women she would use and make her lover, all to ensure her own power. Game Celene is portrayed neither as nasty as she is or as competent as she is. It would have been easy enough to include more information given that you have spymaster and player of the game Leliana with you. It would have been simple enough to: 

• Have Leliana bring up Celene's awful actions as part of her 'let her die and have briala rule through gaspard' pitch
• Have Josephine bring up Celene politics (education, culture, peace) vs Gaspard's (War, Glory Expansionism).
• Have Cullen comment that Gaspard would make a better war leader in the fight against Corithyspit.
• Then you just go on with the quest, discover plots of everyone and go on to decide the fate of orlais with a better idea of your choices (aka that they're all Bhelen choices)

(this is meant as an example to show it can be done, not a suggestion of how it should be done.)

 

2.  Gotta catch 'em all: Halla Statues - Collecting statues from random places all over the palace, that are interchangeable and will open any of various securely locked doors is a blatantly ridiculous security system. If it were just a silly side thing for some treasure that wouldn't matter, but those statues unlock vital plot points and choices. They should make sense. There are so many different cool ways they could of had for opening the doors that would have made sense. 

• Performing a favour for a party goer/servant for the key
• Picking the lock with Deft hands, fine tools
• Using History Knowledge perk to identify a part of a mosaic that is historically inaccurate and reveals a secret door.
• Using Arcane Knowledge perk to disable a mystical security system
• Stealing the key etc

They could have done this in so many ways, make gaining access to extra plot choices interesting, instead we got halla statues. One of them is in the kitchen rafters for heavens sake.

 

 

TL;DR

 

If there is vital information about a games main plot choices in the books then they should find a way to present that information to the character.

 

Game mechanics that are a part of the main plot should make story sense.

[caradoc2000]

These two points are also interconnected. If you haven't read ME, you probably don't care who rules Orlais which means you only need a couple of the statues for the easiest option (Celene stays on the throne).

 

I agree that the statues are a questionable means to access the various areas especially since most of them can only be picked up when you are under a timer.

[Realmzmaster]

The Halla Statutes are used as keys to limit your options. Only a certain number of statues exist and not enough to open all the doors. Also it makes since for Celene who is into the occult to secure important areas with magical locks. So unless you know the royal family's interest in the occult the Halla statues are simply statues with no importance. That is why a note is left about the Royal family's interest and why Morriigan makes it a point to tell yo why she is there.

 

Also the other choices instead of statues require that the gamer picked that particular perk. Using the statues avoids hearing the outcry from gamers who did not pick that particular perk.

 

One of the big discussion on this board was about the Herald doing trivial tasks so why would the Herald be doing favors for servants or other party goers?

 

Stealing a key would require that a rogue be in the party, which would take away choice from party composition. For example some players have all mages in their party.

 

The Halla statues makes it available to all parties regardless of composition.

[Absafraginlootly]

There are enough statues for all the story ones, just not all the treasure doors aswell. I agree that her wanting mystical locks makes sense - I disagree that the halla statues make any sense as a key to said lock.

 

Those were examples of things I think make far more sense, not demands about what they should of done.

 

Having more than one way to get a door open would solve limitation issues.

[Eronair]

... "Having more than one way to get a door open would solve limitation issues."

 

As far as i get it, that's the whole point of doing the Halla statues. You get 11 you need (i think) 27 to open all the doors.

That makes the player have to chose, which adds a bit of decision making. Granted that it does suck if you had hoped for a specific ending and your not able to do it, because that mage loot was just to epic.

 

Now as an alternative to the Halla Statues, i only see something similar. Like busts of different Orlesian kings or something like that. Over all i think it's a good design choice.

[rayvioletta]

I completely agree. I think Masked Empire is a great read but the more important points, those that it would make sense for the advisors to know, should be made available to a player who has not read the book. Celene, Briala and Gaspard are all far more complex and interesting people than they appear to be in game, with all of them having their redeeming points as well as flaws. in game though they pretty much all just come across as petty, foolish and unlikeable

 

perhaps they went too far trying to avoid what happened with Asunder, where pretty much all the plot is in the game meaning those who read after having played DA:I have very little new to learn. personally I think with that book they should have kept Cole's identity for a reveal in the game with the book only offering hints as to the truth

[CDR Aedan Cousland]

My question is: What the hell is stopping us from picking the halla statuettes back up after unlocking a door to re-use them for other doors?

 

Pointless game limitations are asinine.

[thats1evildude]

Presumably because the magic locks them in place.

 

There's actually a Codex which does sort of explain the use of the halla statues and why Halamshiral is the site of the Winter Palace. It all has to do with the Orlesian royalty's fascination with elven magic.

 

I do note, having run through this quest last night, that you can ask all of your advisors which potential ruler they would support. Cassandra and Vivienne also weigh in with their opinions.

[CDR Aedan Cousland]

By that logic, the doors can only be unlocked once, which completely defeats the purpose of locking mechanisms.

[LadyNorbert]

I agree with everything the original poster said. To be perfectly honest, I pretty much loathed the entire "Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts" quest. To borrow a quote from the show Frasier, I found it "boring yet difficult." The halla statues were annoying because how can you pick and choose which doors to open if you have no idea what's to be found where? And as OP points out, if you haven't read TME, you really have no understanding of these characters beyond the fact that Celene wanted Cailan to dump Anora for her in the first game.

[The Baconer]

 

• Have Josephine bring up Celene politics (education, culture, peace) vs Gaspard's (War, Glory Expansionism).
• Have Cullen comment that Gaspard would make a better war leader in the fight against Corithyspit.
• Then you just go on with the quest, discover plots of everyone and go on to decide the fate of orlais with a better idea of your choices (aka that they're all Bhelen choices)

 

I'm pretty sure this is exactly what happens in the game. The differences between Gaspard's and Celene's politics are discussed between all three advisors (as opposed to just Josephine), and Cullen describing Gaspard as a better war leader is pretty much word for word.

 

I know for a fact that Celene burning down the Alienage is also mentioned, by Briala's agent IIRC. Of course, it would have been interesting to see Leliana's reaction to that. She pretty much told Celene to do it (or, more specifically, to put down the rebellion forcefully) on behalf of Justinia.

[rayvioletta]

the advisors mention some basic points yes, but even for players who'd base the decision soley on the characters politics, we're not really told enough about them to make an informed decision. for many players the personalities of the characters is important too and we don't really see those at all. Masked Empire shows what each of them believe in and what their motives are, it makes them make sense and fleshes them out like real people

[herkles]

Warning: Spoilers for Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts and for The Masked Empire.

 

There are two things that I find really wrong with the wicked eyes wicked hearts quest/area (there are a lot of complaints but I'm going to focus on these two because they really get my goat.)

 

1.  How it intersects with The Masked Empire - I love the books, but you shouldn't have had to read them to get the full picture on a main quest choice. In the game, gone is the Celene who promotes education, cultural development and peaceful relations with other nations, but will purge an alienage and murder her entire household, including the parents of the women she would use and make her lover, all to ensure her own power. Game Celene is portrayed neither as nasty as she is or as competent as she is. It would have been easy enough to include more information given that you have spymaster and player of the game Leliana with you. It would have been simple enough to: 

• Have Leliana bring up Celene's awful actions as part of her 'let her die and have briala rule through gaspard' pitch
• Have Josephine bring up Celene politics (education, culture, peace) vs Gaspard's (War, Glory Expansionism).
• Have Cullen comment that Gaspard would make a better war leader in the fight against Corithyspit.
• Then you just go on with the quest, discover plots of everyone and go on to decide the fate of orlais with a better idea of your choices (aka that they're all Bhelen choices)

 

Well this sort of thing did happen IG. However, my issue with Wicked Eyes is that it is how it intersects with the story as a whole. What I mean by this, is that it doesn't do a good job of inter-acting with the various areas enough. While this is an issue for all of the major plot points, it is most noticble with this plot point. So here is how I would change things:

• The moment you arrive in Orlais, you should hear about the civil war. Even if you just to address the Chantry, it should be mentioned. More over EVERYTHING in orlais up to this plot point should be connected to the Civil war, baring say the Grey Wardens(not the Western expanse though). Moreover, everyone in Orlais should have some sort of opinion on the civil war. It could be biased towards one or dislike of both, but every NPC that you can talk to should comment on their views.
• You should be introduced to at least the two power players, Gaspard and Celene throughout your adventures in Orlais. You should know there general policies before hand, from town criers, nobles, peasents and so on. 
• Related you should also start to get a feel of the dark things. For instance, in Val Royeaux* When you go to the Elven Alianage at night and you run into cheviliers on their hazing ritual, aka going to shank a poor elf who is out of the alianage. More over you should see people who immigrated from halrmishal due to Celene burning the place down. 
• There should be plenty of Quests for all the sides. One wouldn't be able to do all the Quests for everyone. After all this is a civil war. In the exlated plains you should have to help one side over the other, same with the emerald graves. In Val Royeaux you might even have to support one gang over another that is backing one candiate. 
• In Val Royeaux you should see the places that are traditional supporters of each side, such as the University for Celene or the Chevilier academy for Gaspard or the Alianage for Briala. These would be where the majority of the quests come from. 
• These Quests would be how you gain access to the Ball. By doing enough, one of the three power players invites you to the ball. This won't lock you in to which side you would support, though they would comment on it. Ie say you do all of Celene's quests and she invites you; you can still decide to side with Gaspard and make him Emperor. 
• Your wartable** missions relating to the politics of Orlais should have some minor impact. Basically by getting nobles on your side you should find it a tad easier to have the favor of the court and get your way.
• each area in Orlais would have things relating to the civil war. So when you go for example to the Western expanse, while it is but a desert. You might have two rival explorer teams out here to support who are rival archologists(they likely don't care about the civil war but are helping their patron due to the fact that well they are supporting them)

*My version of Val Royeaux is the whole city. With quests for every compainon, advisors, some agents, and even your background. Basically the city would be as big as Novigrad in the witcher 3. 

**Related a lot of the War-table missions should be done IG not via the war-table, ie I want to do the political stuff IG. Things like treaty negotions are fine to do via war-table. 

 

2.  Gotta catch 'em all: Halla Statues - Collecting statues from random places all over the palace, that are interchangeable and will open any of various securely locked doors is a blatantly ridiculous security system. If it were just a silly side thing for some treasure that wouldn't matter, but those statues unlock vital plot points and choices. They should make sense. There are so many different cool ways they could of had for opening the doors that would have made sense. 

• Performing a favour for a party goer/servant for the key
• Picking the lock with Deft hands, fine tools
• Using History Knowledge perk to identify a part of a mosaic that is historically inaccurate and reveals a secret door.
• Using Arcane Knowledge perk to disable a mystical security system
• Stealing the key etc

They could have done this in so many ways, make gaining access to extra plot choices interesting, instead we got halla statues. One of them is in the kitchen rafters for heavens sake.

 

I agree, I hate the Halla Statues. I don't mind that Celene has a magical place, after all the palace is an ancient elven place and is steeped in magic. My issue is that it doesn't feel magical. Have magical puzzels, and things that require being a mage or having the arcane knowledge perk to pass. Make it Magical, Mystical  and so on, don't make it about collecting things.

 

More over, I want politics, or more correctly, I want the ability to play the political game. I want to do favors before hand with various nobles to have more support. At the ball, I want to play politics and do favors(say discreetly killing someone or drugging them to say something stupid/be unconsious.) Similar to what you said, I want to steel things. Say a trade/marriage pact from one noble and give it to another or steel a key to inflitrate the areas I shouldn't be in for more documents and files on the candiates. 

[Absafraginlootly]

@herkles

 

Yes, all of this!

 

In orzammer you could talk dwarves in the city about the candidates and whom they thought was best. That one merchant played a large part in why I chose Bhelen in my first playthrough.

[FieryDove]

A way to turn off the blasted timer. Ruined the entire quest for me.

 

 

I agree, I hate the Halla Statues. I don't mind that Celene has a magical place, after all the palace is an ancient elven place and is steeped in magic. My issue is that it doesn't feel magical. Have magical puzzels, and things that require being a mage or having the arcane knowledge perk to pass. Make it Magical, Mystical  and so on, don't make it about collecting things.

 

More over, I want politics, or more correctly, I want the ability to play the political game. I want to do favors before hand with various nobles to have more support. At the ball, I want to play politics and do favors(say discreetly killing someone or drugging them to say something stupid/be unconsious.) Similar to what you said, I want to steel things. Say a trade/marriage pact from one noble and give it to another or steel a key to inflitrate the areas I shouldn't be in for more documents and files on the candiates. 

 

I agree.

 

Also the timer ruined the entire quest for me. I ran around in a panic most of the time. Very unfun.