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Research on paragon/renegade system!


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#1
n7recruitment

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Hi guys,

 

I'm affiliated with the university of Glasgow and am doing research on Mass Effect and its morality system. I know the paragon/renegade division is a hot topic regarding the new Mass Effect: Andromeda so I think it ties in well with current events! 

(I personally hope the morality system will make a comeback, but I'd love to hear your thoughts!)

 

If you'd like to help with our survey (which again, has been approved by the university of Glasgow), it can be found here: https://docs.google....m?usp=send_form.

 

I can't tell you too much about it before you fill it out, but you will be debriefed on the last page of the survey! Please note that you have to be over 18 to participate.

 

You would be helping us add to the existing body of video game literature and you would help us show that video games deserve a place in academics! And you would, of course, have my everlasting gratitude ;)

We really need these participants so if you could share this with your friends, that would be great!!



#2
Dean_the_Young

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People, this is a possible scammer. Don't click download links from strangers on the interent.


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#3
The Heretic of Time

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I think the two moral dilemmas at the end of the questionnaire aren't really moral dilemmas. All I could think is "who the heck would stand still on a train track? If you're that dumb then you deserve to die".

Sorry, but I just couldn't immerse myself in those "moral dilemmas", so my answers for those two dilemmas will be no good to you as I just filled in whatever I felt like.

I also find your hypothesis which you explain at the end of your survey a bit worrying. It has been proven time and time again that in-game behavior has no correlation or effect on real-world behavior. Violence in games does not translate to violence in real life. This is a known fact, so I don't understand why you expect our in-game choices and in-game morality to be linked to our real-life choices and morality. I for one think I'm a pretty moral and decent human being in real-life, yet I prefer to play a ruthless renegade basterd in Mass Effect.

 

Games are fun because they allow us to be who we can't be in real-life. They allow us to do things we will never be able to do in real-life. Most people understand this and I expect all people who played renegade in Mass Effect to be people who understand this.


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#4
The Heretic of Time

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People, this is a possible scammer. Don't click download links from strangers on the interent.

 

It's not a download link, it's a link to a Google form. I just filled in the form. It's not scam. It doesn't ask for personal information.



#5
Cyonan

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I doubt you'll find a correlation between in-game and real life morality.

 

Otherwise I should probably make sure that I'm not actually Kasumi IRL and have a serious case of kleptomania, cause whenever given the chance in video games, I steal everything that isn't bolted down and on fire.


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#6
themikefest

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completed


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#7
JasonShepard

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I'll take the opposite stance. Violence in video games is kind of a moot point - we know the violence is (1) not real, and (2) often involves killing characters who have literally zero character, so of course it doesn't mirror real life.

 

Moral decisions though? Sure, in video games they're still not real, but we're more willing to explore the possibilities and become invested in the relevant characters than the 'violence' question. Generally because, for a moral decision to have value, the characters actually have to mean something to us. So, yeah, a good study might find a correlation between in-game morals and out-of-game morals.

 

***

 

Oh, and I really hate train-track dilemmas.

 

For the first one, I have to assume that the people are tied to the tracks, and that there's a good reason why I couldn't throw the switch halfway and just de-rail the train.

 

For the second... sorry, but the situation just isn't realistic enough to me. I had to completely rephrase it in my mind before I could figure out what I'd do. (For the record - I rephrased it to a situation where the Collectors are about to attack a small bunch of colonists, and I can throw out a genetically interesting person as bait in order to save the others.)



#8
BatarianBob

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Video games aren't a valid topic for research. They're a thing to do when you're taking a break from research.

#9
Blackguard

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I know there are scamms that uses this survey-stuff, particularly with low-post accounts, but this is none.

 

Interesting survey even.

 

Done.


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#10
Volcanthe

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Completed. Virtual cookies to you for the non-binary and other gender choices.

 

Best of luck with your research.


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#11
Sylvius the Mad

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I enjoyed that immensely.

Those thought experiments at the end are classics. I remember them.from school. I have one concern with how you worded the questions however.

One (for each scenario) read, "I belive my action to be moral," with Yes/No options. How will you be interpreting a No response?

I ask because, in each case, one of the choices was inaction, and I would argue that inaction has no moral relevance. Therefore, it cannot be moral (nor can it be immoral).

I suspect you're trying to determine whether someone deems it moral to save the many rather than the few, even when doing so involves actively killing the few. It's the difference between strict utilitarianism and ideal rule utilitarianism. But the way you've phrased the question allows other options, and you haven't collected enough information to tell those responses apart.
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#12
Sylvius the Mad

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Video games aren't a valid topic for research.

Tell that to Nick Yee.
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#13
n7recruitment

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I think the two moral dilemmas at the end of the questionnaire aren't really moral dilemmas. All I could think is "who the heck would stand still on a train track? If you're that dumb then you deserve to die".

Sorry, but I just couldn't immerse myself in those "moral dilemmas", so my answers for those two dilemmas will be no good to you as I just filled in whatever I felt like.

I also find your hypothesis which you explain at the end of your survey a bit worrying. It has been proven time and time again that in-game behavior has no correlation or effect on real-world behavior. Violence in games does not translate to violence in real life. This is a known fact, so I don't understand why you expect our in-game choices and in-game morality to be linked to our real-life choices and morality. I for one think I'm a pretty moral and decent human being in real-life, yet I prefer to play a ruthless renegade basterd in Mass Effect.

 

Games are fun because they allow us to be who we can't be in real-life. They allow us to do things we will never be able to do in real-life. Most people understand this and I expect all people who played renegade in Mass Effect to be people who understand this.

Hey there! Thank you for your feedback!

 

The cool thing about psychological research is that it takes things we think we know for sure, and then tests them using scientific method. It may sound logical to you that there is no link between real life morality/personality or game morality/personality, but we can't know this for sure until we actually go in and test it. (There are quite a few examples of this in psychology, the Milgram experiment is one of the more well known experiments that proved our human instinct or basic asumptions wrong.)

And maybe there is indeed no link! But we can't say this with certainty until we do research on it (also, beginning research on this topic suggests that there is a link, see for example Klimmt, et al. 2009, however this link is not causal but correlational and complex.)
 

I also think you may have missed the point that I tried to get across on my debriefing page! I would like to try to explain it further for you.

I never said that video game violence = real life violence. I simply wanted people to take note that a lot of the research on video games has been on that topic, namely whether or not people who play violent video games are more likely to be violent in real life. I want to move my research to a more "positive" or neutral topic, which is game morality (basically what I'm trying to say is that this research is not the average "shooters bad, shooters make people shoot people" clickbait article you see on your local newsite). Therefore, although a lot of the research has been on the link between game violence and real life violence (and you're right, most research says there is not direct causation), the current research wants to move away from that topic and the automatically negative connotation it comes with! Also, it's not because there is no link between games and one topic, that there won't be a link between games and another topic, see first paragraph.

 

I then also actually really like what you are saying on how you're a morally decent person yet like to play as renegade in ME2. Of course we did not assume that all people who play as renegade are morally "bad" people, rather, we are trying to figure out why some people play as renegades or as paragon (and of course we are assuming that renegades don't actually punch everyone in the face in real life). We are looking at which personality traits predict which moral pathway. Are people who score high on trait agreeableness more likely to play as paragon than renegade, since renegade is the "path less taken" (note, you can be a great person regardless of whether you're high or low on trait agreeableness, so there's no "good" or "bad" person talk involved!)?
We are NOT assuming that people who play as renegade are bad people or morally less than paragon players (this would be a ridiculous assumption, so just so it's clear, that is NOT our point), actually this type of thought leads back to the whole "people who play violent video games are violent in real life" stereotype that I rejected earlier. 

 

And of course video games let us explore different selves than our actual self, so thank you for noting that. That's really the point of our research; do video game selves differ from our real selves (of course they do), in what way, are certain people more likely to explore a certain game self than others, etc ... That's what we are looking at.

 

The moral dilemmas then, are classic examples used in philosophy and psychology to determine whether or not people hold a utilitarian or deontological viewpoint. I respect that you think they aren't good examples of dilemmas, but they were chosen because of their history and use in previous research and academics, so hopefully that answers that comment :)

I hope this was an answer to your comments, let me know if you want to talk about it more. I do apologize for the wall of text but wanted to make sure I was clear!

 


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#14
n7recruitment

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I know there are scamms that uses this survey-stuff, particularly with low-post accounts, but this is none.

 

Interesting survey even.

 

Done.

 

Thank you, and I do understand where this thought process came from. I own a private account on the forums as well, but since this research has been approved by the university of Glasgow I can't use a private account! :)

 

EDIT: you don't have to give out any details except for age and gender, and all data is and will be treated anonymously!


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#15
n7recruitment

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I doubt you'll find a correlation between in-game and real life morality.

 

Otherwise I should probably make sure that I'm not actually Kasumi IRL and have a serious case of kleptomania, cause whenever given the chance in video games, I steal everything that isn't bolted down and on fire.

 

If we don't, then that's the answer to our research question! :)
Like I said in an answer above, we can't say that there is no link with certainty until academic research has been done, which is why the current research is happening. Also, research that is currently out there suggests there may be a link between game personality and real life! Of course this isn't necessarily a straightforward causal link (à la "if you punch people in mass effect you like punching people in real life" but more a "people who score high on these traits and low on these traits are more likely to explore playing as this type of character in video games!")

Thank you for your comment! :)



#16
Dean_the_Young

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It's not a download link, it's a link to a Google form. I just filled in the form. It's not scam. It doesn't ask for personal information.

 

Whether it's legit or not, you do realize that merely clicking the link is a vulnerability point, right? Googleforms is convenient, but it's also an easy target for link scams to mimic.Various forms of malware traps simply work by presenting apparently legitimate sites and luring people to offer innocuous information.

 

Before you fill at online forms, always check for clues for legitimacy. Who is this person with no posting history? How are they proving they are who they claim and who they are affiliated with? Why would a private university be doing online research on a commercial product via a methodology that is both hardly comprehensive but via a source that is highly atypical (the BSN community)? Why would professional research be conducted via google docs without an upfront disclaimer and methodology outline, but simply by posting on a random forum with a unsubstantiated claim of 'hey, you can trust me'?

 

Whether it is/was legit or not, just by simply by following the link you compromised yourself. Be more careful.



#17
Sylvius the Mad

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I think the two moral dilemmas at the end of the questionnaire aren't really moral dilemmas. All I could think is "who the heck would stand still on a train track? If you're that dumb then you deserve to die".

The question establoshes only that they are there, and under what circumstances they might die. It makes no claims that would lead to the conclusion you've drawn.

Perhaps the people are being restrained.

But more importantly, you shouldn't need that explanation. It's a thought experiment; you accept its conditions without question.
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#18
n7recruitment

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Whether it's legit or not, you do realize that merely clicking the link is a vulnerability point, right? Googleforms is convenient, but it's also an easy target for link scams to mimic.Various forms of malware traps simply work by presenting apparently legitimate sites and luring people to offer innocuous information.

 

Before you fill at online forms, always check for clues for legitimacy. Who is this person with no posting history? How are they proving they are who they claim and who they are affiliated with? Why would a private university be doing online research on a commercial product via a methodology that is both hardly comprehensive but via a source that is highly atypical (the BSN community)? Why would professional research be conducted via google docs without an upfront disclaimer and methodology outline, but simply by posting on a random forum with a unsubstantiated claim of 'hey, you can trust me'?

 

Whether it is/was legit or not, just by simply by following the link you compromised yourself. Be more careful.

 

Definitely good advice. For some peace of mind, the ethical conditions proposed by this research can be found, as usual, on the first page of the survey. These are binding, and include a section on use of personal information (no personal data will be collected, except for age, gender and survey answers, and all of these will be used anonymously and destroyed after the work has been written). 
I have made a recruitment post on the Bioware Forums for this exact research before, but got no participants from it, so I decided to keep it more informal so more people would check it out, which worked judging by participant numbers.

Additionally, this research, as stated on the first page of the survey, is part of the educational (psychological) programme that I follow at the university of Glasgow (you can also find more information that holds me personally liable there). If you look around online, you should be able to find the research advertised on multiple Bioware blogs/communities/social networks/... 
As I've said before, I can definitely see where these thoughts are coming from. Before posting, I tried to contact numerous mods with this in mind (unfortunately I did not hear back from them, which is why there is no mention of them in this post). Either way, good advice so thank you, but in this situation there really isn't anything dodgy going on so you're good!



#19
Ambivalent

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Done my only "criticism" or wish can be... If you include ME 3 stuff aswell.

 

Quarrians vs geths, destroy/control/refuse/synthesis/Indoctrination theory and why? etc.

 

Could lead to some other interesting "ideas" for you maybe, it was fun though :)