672 réponses à ce sujet

[Lynas]

This remind me a lot FF14, a mmo on last gen and current gen. They just released a new add-on, that is not supported by last gen... so people who want to play it need to change their console... too bad.

[BansheeOwnage]

In my opinion Bioware should release the last story DLC on PC only, because face it guys, the Xbone & PS4 just don't cut it, there is so much more possible on the PC and the distribution is miles easier. So please don't hold us PC players back, just accept it, use the PS4/Xbone/PC save importer and buy a new Origin copy, it's really that easy.

 

Yeah, this is how you guys sound.

 

Oh, that cracked me up.

[AresKeith]

They're comparable because it's dividing and p*ssing off the fans.  FOr different reasons, sure.  But the anger is still there.

 

Not really dividing when its people refusing to play the MP. I'm not counting the people who actually can't play it, that's understandable and the reason why I hope Bioware adds an alternative way in the SP

[HiroVoid]

This remind me a lot FF14, a mmo on last gen and current gen. They just released a new add-on, that is not supported by last gen... so people who want to play it need to change their console... too bad.

There's a big difference between a game that'll maybe get 1-3 years of support after release and an mmo that'll probably be around the next 10 years or so.

[midnight tea]

There's a big difference between a game that'll maybe get 1-3 years of support after release and an mmo that'll probably be around the next 10 years or so.

 

Not as different, if you consider that Sony and Microsoft themselves are likely about to drop support of old-gen consoles as well.

 

Microsoft, for example, will only be supporting Xbox 360 up until 2016 (http://gamerant.com/...ecycle-support/)... that's less than half a year from now.

[Hellion Rex]

They're comparable because it's dividing and p*ssing off the fans.  FOr different reasons, sure.  But the anger is still there.

Not really. Not even remotely on the same scale.

[Hellion Rex]

At the very least, I doubt EA/Bioware will repeat this incident when making games for the 9th gen consoles.

Quite. They should simply stick with the most recent consoles to come out, period.

[BansheeOwnage]

I disagree on the multiplayer stuff, since the combat animations are the exact same as in the SP. Some aesthetic content should still be available to older consoles though.

What? Animations aren't a problem. At all. I don't... huh?

 

Wait, item packs also aren't being given to last gen???

Apparently. Not only did they announce that oldgen won't get any more DLC, but they announced a new DLC on the same day! That they can't get. Like... WOW. Couldn't they have maybe said you wouldn't be able to get it a bit sooner? Obviously they knew, because the DLC had to go through certification. So, they could have easily told us a couple of weeks ago, minimum. Now I'm even angrier! Wow. And that's ignoring the fact that oldgen could easily handle item packs.

[Iakus]

Not really. Not even remotely on the same scale.

Yet.

[AresKeith]

Not as different, if you consider that Sony and Microsoft themselves are likely about to drop support of old-gen consoles as well.

 

Microsoft, for example, will only be supporting Xbox 360 up until 2016 (http://gamerant.com/...ecycle-support/)... that's less than half a year from now.

 

And I heard Sony recently dropped an update for PS3

[beccatoria]

Why would there be a price drop for the Inqusition itself? We all got the same product and experience up until that point, and won't be getting those DLCS for free, as I've already pointed out.

 

Uh, this is getting quite long...

 

Exactly, the price was part of what led to the reasonable assumption that we were getting the same product.  We were not. 

 

Capacity for future upgrades is often a factor in pricing a base unit.  In this case, capacity to install additional DLC was not a factor in pricing the base game.  Whether or not you are required to pay for the upgrade is irrelevant.  A computer with 4 gigs or RAM and no space to upgrade will be worth less than a computer with 4 gigs and space for 8, even if you have to pay for the extra RAM.  A house with space to build an extension will be judged to have a higher value than one without.  This is standard.  When you buy something that is judged to be an investment - such as a game with a promoted DLC cycle - the cost should reflect its potential. 

 

Considering that we don't yet have full information about the DLC or anything concerning the future of the game, you making claims about what's honorable or not for a company to do (or what they'll eventually do) is as much a matter of speculation as me making a guess that this is too much of a financial burden.

 

 

I'm not speculating on what they'll do.  I'm discussing what they already did. 

 

They had an opportunity to provide further context.  They did not.  The fact that they may change their current policies, or offer further incentives or apologies is irrelevant.  I'm discussing the situation, as we currently understand it.  And that understanding is based on the information BioWare have chosen to give us. 

 

Yet this very specific example shows the reality of gaming market today. It's not any sort of issue that can be separated form it.

 

 

 

This seems to sum up a good deal of your broader points, so I'll respond to this broadly instead of point-by-point. 

 

The fact that the reality of the gaming industry is that it does not respect its customers is not going to change my opinion on the ethics of those choices, and will not stop me from pointing out that it shouldn't be the reality of the gaming industry.  One of the reasons I'm disappointed is that BioWare generally attempts to do better and to foster a sense of community and respect.  In this case it has not done so. 

 

 

Also, to be honest, I'm not sure I agree with you that this specific situation shows the wider "reality of the gaming industry".  It's not like this is a practice that is commonplace.  Have there even been other games that have dropped support partway through a DLC cycle? (ETA: hmm, seems like the Final Fantasy MMO is one, but still, this isn't well-trod territory and is still more specific than a general discussion of the industry updating).

 

I still reject the notion that withdrawing support for a product after selling it to you is comparable to making it clear that product won't be supported from the beginning. 

 

 

The DLC hasn't been released yet and for all we know, won't be released for a bit yet - so don't say it like they didn't drop it without warning, when the inclusion of this gamesave migration feature came with a warning. If anything, Bioware has yet time to clarify the situation - we're yet to see what they'll do.

 

 

I wouldn't care if they "warned" people that they'd been tricked into buying an inferior product a day before a DLC release or six months before. 

 

My issue is that they changed the parameters of their product support when it was far too late for people to do anything about it and they already had their money.

[midnight tea]

And I heard Sony recently dropped an update for PS3

 

http://www.playstati...atory/#/slide/1

A small, mandatory update with stability improvements and access to PSN Network. No new software or anything. While I think Sony will drop support for PS3 later than Microsoft will for Xbox, I don't think we'd be seeing big updates and improvements anymore.

[BansheeOwnage]

That's actually not entirely true, we already know certain things go cut or held back from the base game which could be traced back to last-gen not being able to handle it

I'm really not arguing that. You're right. And I think it shouldn't have been released on oldgen. My point was that they never painted the game as being a much better experience on newgen, in contrast to say, Battlefield, which was marketed as being better on newgen (more players etc.) It's really only graphical stuff that's better in DA:I. That's why this is out of the blue.

[AresKeith]

I'm really not arguing that. You're right. And I think it shouldn't have been released on oldgen. My point was that they never painted the game as being a much better experience on newgen, in contrast to say, Battlefield, which was marketed as being better on newgen (more players etc.) It's really only graphical stuff that's better in DA:I. That's why this is out of the blue.

 

They didn't paint it that way, but we know it would've

[midnight tea]

They didn't paint it that way, but we know it would've

 

Considering how - in official interviews - they pretty much constantly mention being handicapped by last-gen? I'd say that they held to last-gen consoles as long as they could, until they've decided it's just not worth it or it's too much of a handicap.... 

[TreeHuggerHannah]

Though DAI isn't ESO or any other MMO - you're not paying subscription for the game on the monthly basis, therefore the argument about paying for the base game is moot.

 

I disagree - a base game that cannot be upgraded with future story DLC content is a significantly different/lesser product than a base game that can.

 

The problem isn't that the difference exists, it's that no indication was given at the time of purchase that PS3/360 users were buying the different/lesser option. 

 

The problem is that the PS3/360 version was misrepresented by omitting important product viability information that would have affected some customers' purchasing decisions.

[AresKeith]

 

I disagree - a base game that cannot be upgraded with future story DLC content is a significantly different/lesser product than a base game that can.

 

The problem isn't that the difference exists, it's that no indication was given at the time of purchase that PS3/360 users were buying the different/lesser option. 

 

The problem is that the PS3/360 version was misrepresented by omitting important product viability information that would have affected some customers' purchasing decisions.

 

It's not like Bioware had full knowledge that this would happen

[midnight tea]

 

I disagree - a base game that cannot be upgraded with future story DLC content is a significantly different/lesser product than a base game that can.

 

The problem isn't that the difference exists, it's that no indication was given at the time of purchase that PS3/360 users were buying the different/lesser option. 

 

The problem is that the PS3/360 version was misrepresented by omitting important product viability information that would have affected some customers' purchasing decisions.

 

That's assuming BW knew at that time that they'd eventually have to drop old-gens. It's not a claim you can spread with no evidence for it.

 

Also - with graphics as they were on old-gen consoles, people were already getting an inferior product... The awareness had to be that that when you're deciding to buy a game as big as DAI on significantly weaker platform - from the start you're not getting an experience as full as current-gen platforms and PCs.

[TreeHuggerHannah]

It's not like Bioware had full knowledge that this would happen

 

It isn't something that just "happened" outside of anyone's control, it's the result of decisions they made.

 

I'm sure they didn't make the actual decision that far in advance, but if it was an option on the table, that should have been disclosed. 

[AresKeith]

It isn't something that just "happened" outside of anyone's control, it's the result of decisions they made.

 

I'm sure they didn't make the actual decision that far in advance, but if it was an option on the table, that should have been disclosed. 

 

Other options would be to stop DLC support period, or continue to cut content so it would work for last-gen

[beccatoria]

It's not like Bioware had full knowledge that this would happen

 

Either BioWare or EA had full control of the decision to stop supporting last gen. 

 

You're acting like this decision just grew out of thin air, or was forced on them by some hazy external force.

[Heimdall]

It isn't something that just "happened" outside of anyone's control, it's the result of decisions they made.
 
I'm sure they didn't make the actual decision that far in advance, but if it was an option on the table, that should have been disclosed.

Well, that would have made more an awkwardly long marketing tag line:

"Buy Dragon Age Inquisition for PC\Xbox One\PS4\PS3\Xbox360! But we might discontinue DLC for the latter two down the line, possibly, at some point."

They aren't obliged to tell you about things that they don't even know will happen, regardless if they know it's possible. It was also possible they're DLC plans would get shut down if JoH didn't sell well enough, but they didn't mention that either.

[TreeHuggerHannah]

Other options would be to stop DLC support period, or continue to cut content so it would work for last-gen

 

It doesn't matter what the other options are, the point was that at the time of purchase we were not told, "Just so you know, if the requirements get too hefty we may have to stop releasing story content for this console midway through the product cycle. Dropping this console is considered a live development option."

 

Had that been disclosed, I would not have purchased the PS3 game.

[beccatoria]

Other options would be to stop DLC support period, or continue to cut content so it would work for last-gen

 

Why would continuing to cut content to work for last gen be so terrible?  Was that not the basis on which the original game was advertised and sold?  Why should it be changed now? 

[flowersloveoranges]

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