672 réponses à ce sujet

[Kaibe]

Unfortunately I went from 360 to PS4.

[Heimdall]

But they were the ones making the plans! It's not something they just... stumbled upon, or something.
 
Working within your technical limitations is just part of game design. The available technology doesn't always accommodate everything a developer thinks would be really awesome.
 
If they weren't prepared to work within the technical limitations of old gen, that would have been fine. They chose to take our money, though.

Are you kidding? If there's one thing I've learned in following game development, especially Bioware game development, it's that plans are constantly changing.

You're right, it doesn't. That's why they left it behind.

Again, you're assuming they knew this would happen from the beginning. They didn't take you're money while planning to screw you eight months down the line.

[beccatoria]

Ummm if your referring to the base game, yes they did

 

 

 

 

The only difference is graphics quality which, between different console generations, is self-evident.  Access to story and gameplay features was the same and advertised as such. 

 

Unless you're still talking about how the game itself was nerfed from its original concept because of last gen console support.  Honestly, that's irrelevant.  You're talking about what you wish they'd done for the main release, not what they actually did. 

 

When I say "nerfed" I mean "nerfed in comparison to the next gen release," not "nerfed in comparison to the glory that could have been if we hadn't tried to support last gen in the first place."

[Heimdall]

Buying a game with the expectation of continued content support rather than it being cut off halfway through.

Look, I'm not saying this wasn't a dubious move, but you can't make the argument that they cheated anyone unless they knew this would happen when the game released, which I doubt.

[AresKeith]

The only difference is graphics quality which, between different console generations, is self-evident.  Access to story and gameplay features was the same and advertised as such. 

 

Unless you're still talking about how the game itself was nerfed from its original concept because of last gen console support.  Honestly, that's irrelevant.  You're talking about what you wish they'd done for the main release, not what they actually did. 

 

When I say "nerfed" I mean "nerfed in comparison to the next gen release," not "nerfed in comparison to the glory that could have been if we hadn't tried to support last gen in the first place."

 

And I like I said earlier, even Bioware didn't know it would come to this at that time

 

They've been trying to make all of it work but now it looks like they hit the breaking point

[TreeHuggerHannah]

Again, you're assuming they knew this would happen from the beginning. They didn't take you're money while planning to screw you eight months down the line.

 

Oh, I'm sure they didn't plan it to happen exactly this way.

 

However, I am sure they knew the technical limitations of old gen consoles eight months ago.

 

They made choices with that knowledge in hand, accepted money, and customers got screwed as a result. I'm not saying it was malicious (I'm sure it wasn't) but rather than this wasn't some random event outside of their control.

[Thandal N'Lyman]

EA Dev Team:  "What's the impact if we stop developing DLC for last-gen consoles?  The limitations of those platforms are really cramping some of the stuff we can, and want, to do."

 

EA Marketing Team:  "Well, you'll ******-off some fraction of people who will feel that they were shortchanged/are now being abandoned.  Some will bad-mouth us on the internet and to their friends, and swear not to buy our stuff again."

 

EA Accounting Team:  "Going forward, regardless of what we do the percentage of potential customers who will be buying the next-gen platforms anyway will only increase.  The percentage of customers on the last-gen platforms who would have bought something from us but now won't is negligible to begin with, and is far smaller than the percentage who will say they won't, but will.   And the percentage who will buy the full next-gen version in order to be able to play the next-gen-only DLC will more than make up for those few lost sales.  It's a no-brainer."

 

And NONE of that required a super-secret conspiracy ahead of release.  It's all a business AND creative process, with both elements having to face and adjust to the realities of what's possible, and what's popular (enough).

[The Elder King]

The only difference is graphics quality which, between different console generations, is self-evident.  Access to story and gameplay features was the same and advertised as such. 
 
Unless you're still talking about how the game itself was nerfed from its original concept because of last gen console support.  Honestly, that's irrelevant.  You're talking about what you wish they'd done for the main release, not what they actually did. 
 
When I say "nerfed" I mean "nerfed in comparison to the next gen release," not "nerfed in comparison to the glory that could have been if we hadn't tried to support last gen in the first place."

Well, the game on old gen has a less NPCs on screen. Sometimes the difference was really big.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Look, I'm not saying this wasn't a dubious move, but you can't make the argument that they cheated anyone unless they knew this would happen when the game released, which I doubt.

As of right now last gen people who want to keep playing new content have to pick up a new console and new copy of the game. While I don't think this was their intention from the start I personally still would count that a cheating part of their consumer base. You don't have to plan to screw someone over from the start to end up doing it anyway. Least in my view point.

[Thandal N'Lyman]

I'm still trying to see how someone who thought the game was worth the initial purchase price has been "screwed". 

You thought it worth the money then.

 

Everything you paid for still works on your last-gen equipment EXACTLY the way it did when it was first advertised. 

Heck, some of it works better (patches).

[Heimdall]

Oh, I'm sure they didn't plan it to happen exactly this way.
 
However, I am sure they knew the technical limitations of old gen consoles eight months ago.
 
They made choices with that knowledge in hand, accepted money, and customers got screwed as a result. I'm not saying it was malicious (I'm sure it wasn't) but rather than this wasn't some random event outside of their control.

Of course they knew, they knew about them as they were hamstrung by them in DAI's development.

What they probably didn't know for sure was whether or not those limitations were something they wanted to let get in the way of some of their favorite DLC plans. This is probably something they mulled over for months before coming to a decision. If last gen sales were low (Or last gen JoH sales for that matter) that may have made the decision easier.

I'm not saying it was out of their control. I'm saying they didn't sell you the game with the intention of screwing you over for future content.

[AresKeith]

Well, the game on old gen has a less NPCs on screen. Sometimes the difference was really big.

 

Isn't Skyhold's customization limited on there too?

[Heimdall]

As of right now last gen people who want to keep playing new content have to pick up a new console and new copy of the game. While I don't think this was their intention from the start I personally still would count that a cheating part of their consumer base. You don't have to plan to screw someone over from the start to end up doing it anyway. Least in my view point.

Like I said, I know it's a dubious move, but I don't buy this argument that people purchased a guarantee of access to future content when they bought DAI. They didn't, they bought the base game, and subsequent content is a separate product. Yes, last gen players are justifiably pissed off at not having access, but they haven't been cheated out of something they paid for.

[TreeHuggerHannah]

I've said this before, but the only part of this I absolutely can't get past is that I'm expected to repurchase the base game if I want to continue the DLC.

 

That's what makes it so impossible for me to accept that they had no live alternative... because instead of trying to soften the blow as much as possible, they're trying to use this to sell replacement units of the game to people who already purchased.

 

Everything else I could accept as just being the way things go sometimes, but that is really over the top in terms of taking advantage of customers.

 

If Bioware/EA just addressed that I already bought the game once at full price and stopped trying to double dip for my money, I would feel okay. I wouldn't love the decision, but I could get over it.

 

As it is... either way, I think I'm done talking about it. Nothing more I can say at this point except I'm really disappointed in Bioware/EA and it will affect if I purchase from them again.

[The Elder King]

Isn't Skyhold's customization limited on there too?

I don't know. I wasn't much around after DAI's launch so I don't know How much customizable Skyhold is on next gen.

[berelinde]

I've said this before, but the only part of this I absolutely can't get past is that I'm expected to repurchase the base game if I want to continue the DLC.

 

Everything else I could accept as just being the way things go sometimes, but that is really over the top in terms of taking advantage of customers.

 

If Bioware/EA just addressed that I already bought the game once at full price and stopped trying to double dip for my money, I would feel okay. I wouldn't love the decision, but I could get over it.

 

As it is... either way, I think I'm done talking about it. Nothing more I can say at this point except I'm really disappointed in Bioware/EA and it will affect if I purchase from them again.

Yeah, it seems to me that PS3/X360 players should be able to "level up" their already purchased copies of the game as a digital download to their new system. They'll lose the $30 a pop that a new game would cost players, but they'll garner a lot of good PR in the process, and that's the one thing that EA sorely needs.

 

As Varric would say, I don't have a nug in this race. I play on PC. But that doesn't mean I don't possess a sense of fairness.

[BansheeOwnage]

Okay, everyone just something to think about:

 

A lot of people are acting like Bioware could either drop support for oldgen or drop support for all platforms. Those are not the only options. They could have made DLC that fit within the parameters of oldgen's capabilities, as they did with JoH. That's not to say it has to be exactly like JoH, it could be like Legacy, or something else. I'm sure Bioware has many more ideas for DLC than they could ever make, and I'm sure that plenty of them could be made to work on all platforms, as past DLC has.

 

The most thought-provoking part of this though, is that if they had done so, we would not be having this debate. No one would even know the DLC was chosen because of oldgen limitations. It would simply be seen as the DLC Bioware chose to create, and have the standard praise and criticism associated with that. I didn't see one person complain the JoH sucked because of oldgen. Some people loved it, some hated it, but there was no discussion of platforms aside from the exclusivity. The same thing would have happened if all DLC was released in that fashion, that is: This would not be a visible issue.

 

Interesting then, that they decided to do this instead of the safer route. There are 2 reasons they might have done so:

 

1. The DLC they want to make, for some reason, just can't be scaled down for oldgen, and they absolutely have to make this specific DLC idea.

 

2. They abandoned oldgen because they deemed them not sustainable financially. Which I would find abhorrent. I would also find it plain odd though, seeing as how they already made Spoils of the Qunari, which could easily run on oldgen and make easy money there.

[Torgette]

EA Dev Team:  "What's the impact if we stop developing DLC for last-gen consoles?  The limitations of those platforms are really cramping some of the stuff we can, and want, to do."

 

EA Marketing Team:  "Well, you'll ******-off some fraction of people who will feel that they were shortchanged/are now being abandoned.  Some will bad-mouth us on the internet and to their friends, and swear not to buy our stuff again."

 

EA Accounting Team:  "Going forward, regardless of what we do the percentage of potential customers who will be buying the next-gen platforms anyway will only increase.  The percentage of customers on the last-gen platforms who would have bought something from us but now won't is negligible to begin with, and is far smaller than the percentage who will say they won't, but will.   And the percentage who will buy the full next-gen version in order to be able to play the next-gen-only DLC will more than make up for those few lost sales.  It's a no-brainer."

 

And NONE of that required a super-secret conspiracy ahead of release.  It's all a business AND creative process, with both elements having to face and adjust to the realities of what's possible, and what's popular (enough).

 

That's actually closer to reality than you think, a large number of publishers and developers have been abandoning the old consoles in droves because the money simply dried up as the PS4/Xbox One are selling better than expected and the majority of people who buy new games and DLC move over. There's even rumors already of Microsoft stopping support for the 360, it's only a matter of when not if.

[Archdemon_Urthemiel]

Okay, everyone just something to think about:

A lot of people are acting like Bioware could either drop support for oldgen or drop support for all platforms. Those are not the only options. They could have made DLC that fit within the parameters of oldgen's capabilities, as they did with JoH. That's not to say it has to be exactly like JoH, it could be like Legacy, or something else. I'm sure Bioware has many more ideas for DLC than they could ever make, and I'm sure that plenty of them could be made to work on all platforms, as past DLC has.

The most thought-provoking part of this though, is that if they had done so, we would not be having this debate. No one would even know the DLC was chosen because of oldgen limitations. It would simply be seen as the DLC Bioware chose to create, and have the standard praise and criticism associated with that. I didn't see one person complain the JoH sucked because of oldgen. Some people loved it, some hated it, but there was no discussion of platforms aside from the exclusivity. The same thing would have happened if all DLC was released in that fashion, that is: This would not be a visible issue.

Interesting then, that they decided to do this instead of the safer route. There are 2 reasons they might have done so:

1. The DLC they want to make, for some reason, just can't be scaled down for oldgen, and they absolutely have to make this specific DLC idea.

2. They abandoned oldgen because they deemed them not sustainable financially. Which I would find abhorrent. I would also find it plain odd though, seeing as how they already made Spoils of the Qunari, which could easily run on oldgen and make easy money there.

If the item packs And mp dlc aren't available, it was definitely 2 which is just disgusting

[jedidotflow]

People comparing not being able to play a DLC to food rationing. LEL. Talk about entitled...

[jedidotflow]

I play on a pretty high end PC so this doesn't affect me but yeah, it's a pretty radical decision. And kind of unheard of in the industry as far as I'm aware.

 

But it also raises my hopes for this last story DLCs, now I'm hoping for more interactive and crowded content (battles and real urban areas), so they better deliver.

 

A year ago, the FFXIV director mentioned that PS3 support will drop after the release of the 3.0 patch and expansion. 
http://www.reddit.co...ip_features_of/

[Wargrim]

I am on the side of EA/BioWare here. The old gen console users are done. It had to happen at some point. Not my problem.

 

But, if and when old gen console users decide to upgrade to a PS4 or XboxOne, it would be nice to see EA/BioWare give the players who upgraded, a free copy of DA:I along with the respective XboxOne or PS4 purchase so long as they traded in their old DA:I game from the previous console. 

 

In the words of Iron Bull;

 

"It wont happen. But it could."

[Zatche]

Interesting then, that they decided to do this instead of the safer route. There are 2 reasons they might have done so:

 

1. The DLC they want to make, for some reason, just can't be scaled down for oldgen, and they absolutely have to make this specific DLC idea.

 

2. They abandoned oldgen because they deemed them not sustainable financially. Which I would find abhorrent. I would also find it plain odd though, seeing as how they already made Spoils of the Qunari, which could easily run on oldgen and make easy money there.

 

1. It could be that they have a bunch of ideas, and it might not be worth developing, testing, and balancing two different versions of all the next DLC, especially if there's validity to Point 2.

 

2. It may not necessarily be easy money. They might have looked at some low sales for Spoils of the Avaar and thought it not worth even the certification process for Spoils of Qunari. I don't think it's a bad inference to conclude that those hesitant to upgrade could be just as hesitant to also buy optional DLC.

 

I would imagine it's a combination of 1 and 2, neither of which I find "abhorrent".

 

The idea that last-gen consoles would get all DLC was something we inferred. It was never promised or even implied. Sure, Bioware should be sensitive to the idea that we would make that inference, as it's a good one to make based on history. But that's why it's probably a good idea to have some sort of upgrade offer. (At least they're providing cross gen DLC buy for JoH). But it doesn't mean Bioware is obligated to put out all the DLC they make for new gen on old gen as well.

[AerynShep]

I don't know, if this exactly the right place to address this, but I'm gonna ask anyway. How much does the importer transfer between consoles? I just bought a Xbox One, but I have almost 100 hours of game play on the 360. I would be willing to upgrade if I could transfer my whole inventory via savefiles. I don't want to start from scratch with my collectibles. It's probably my biggest hesitation whether I should upgrade or not.

[Zatche]

Are you kidding? If there's one thing I've learned in following game development, especially Bioware game development, it's that plans are constantly changing.

 

It should be noted that this is the explanation for the lack of a Season Pass. "Dragon Age: Inquisition will not have a season pass, or the concept or pre-purchasing DLC before it has ever been designed. This idea doesn't really work for us, as we prefer to be able to change our plans based on how DLC and story concepts are received by the players."

 

Now, imagine if they released a Season Pass for old gen and then did this. [Looks at Arkham Origins Wii U]