105 réponses à ce sujet

[Courtnehh]

That isn't even the bad part as much as when you spend the past hour and a half killing everything with a weaker team, and suddenly realize on zone five we forgot to summon the dragon. . . it was just ugh.

 

Dying on four due to stupid mistakes and weaker teammates making mistakes they shouldn't have, or trying to revive said weaker teammates... ugh. Yes it is entirely soul destroying to spend so much effort for so little reward.

 

WB often has no clue on initial math modeling. He's a smart cookie and will learn later, but I'm not surprised at all at his initial reaction being so insanely stupid.

 

There's a handful of people that got extremely lucky. Guess what, there's thousands of other attempts that went home broke.

 

Ugh. These drop rates are just ugh. It is the large chests problem all over again before the fixes, being slave to terrible RNG.

Yup, so many silly mistakes causing wipes. Mainly not working as a team, people running off when the rest are trying to create a choke point with SC, FW, FS.

 

I read Luke say the drop rate is currently 5% but it was meant to be more like 1% so they might be taking the drop rate down :/

 

Would be nice if gold spent or prestige somehow has some small effect on it, I'm seeing too many people who haven't played much getting these weapons straight away.

 

The other thing that's getting annoying is people using NM dragon runs to level faster so someone's coming in on a lower levelled character that isn't great for team composition. I'm normally all for promoting but if I'm weapon farming I'd rather play a team of level 20's for once in my life to make my games less stressful and smoother. Too many times I've heared, "well i haven't really got anything for this".

 

For me the frustrating thing is the constant stun locking, getting swarmed by 7-9 red templar/venatori assassins, then at the end of all this frustration and stress you get nothing.

 

Edit: The bugs in this game are creating huge problems also, unkillable dragons, enemies that are stuck under the map, failed host migrations, zone 4 crashes to dashboard, venatory mage lighting DOT that one hits you, narnia, fade cloak ignoring barriers, barriers still throwing themselves in completely the wrong place if your elevation changes at all, FPS lagg and many others I can't think of off the top of my head.

[Innarra]

I don't think you really read what he said.

 

If a hakkon/whatever weapon were to cost 100 scales, and you were assured 1 scale for 4 games, it would take you 400 dragons to acquire a weapon. if we generously say it takes 15 mins to complete an FC routine run that's 100 hours to earn a dragon weapon.

 

You think that is unreasonable?

 

I appreciate that we all play a game where spending upwards of several hundred hours playing is not uncommon, but to say that someone who spends 100 hours killing the easiest dragons in the game doesn't deserve to see some return for those hours is absolutely crazy.

 

Completely unreasonable.

 

Someone who just started the game, has zero skill in it, zero promotions could grind out on Routine and get the best weapon of the game that way. No skill required. Their reward shouldn't be the best there is for completing the easiest part of the game.

 

Why even change the entire loot system at this point? It's worked just fine with RNG with scaled tiers of loot. Spend time in the game, get promotions, get stronger, open more and more chests, spend gold, get gear. Then, when you're strong enough to play the hardest content in the game, get rewarded with the best weapons in the game. That's how it works.

 

Don't like that? Keep playing until you're strong enough and enjoy the game we do have.

 

Why ask the devs for free stuff like you're somehow entitled to it? I think their time could be better spent fixing the broken parts of the game.

[Spin-Orbit]

That isn't even the bad part as much as when you spend the past hour and a half killing everything with a weaker team, and suddenly realize on zone five we forgot to summon the dragon. . . it was just ugh.
 
Dying on four due to stupid mistakes and weaker teammates making mistakes they shouldn't have, or trying to revive said weaker teammates... ugh. Yes it is entirely soul destroying to spend so much effort for so little reward.
 
WB retracted his initial statement that the system was fair.
 
There's a handful of people that got extremely lucky. Guess what, there's thousands of other attempts that went home broke.
 
Ugh. These drop rates are just ugh. It is the large chests problem all over again before the fixes, being slave to terrible RNG.

I believe it is still at 5% until Luke makes his modification tomorrow.

[konfeta]

Completely unreasonable.

Were you throwing the same temper tantrum before dragon weapons came out, and you could in fact get every single piece of "best gear in the game" from playing nothing but routine?

 

 

 

Why ask the devs for free stuff like you're somehow entitled to it? I think their time could be better spent fixing the broken parts of the game.

The implementation of how you acquire Hakkon weapons is a broken part of the game. The theoretical possibility of gaining those weapons from playing sub-nightmare wasn't even the point of the post, the mitigation of RNG was. Hell, if it's that precious to need to be able to do the NM Dragon, just put the recipes as a one time drop for killing the dragon.

 

Not to mention, if you think getting something for extremely inefficient grinding for several hundred hours is "entitled freebies," you have some serious issues. In fact, let's go back to my post, where I explicitly said this - Example rate, probably too generous on the lower difficulties:

 

So, let's lower the hypothetical reward ratio for lower difficulty kills to 1/12, 1/6, 1/3, 1 and keep the the requirement for 100 pieces as in line with the vision of needing 100 nightmare kills. You ACTUALLY think someone is going to perform 1,200 routine dragon kills to get a a "free hand out?"

[Proto]

It has nothing to do with lootscore. It should be somewhere near 1% but I don't think the most recent push to tweak it worked so it may still be closer to 5%. 

 

Luke, could you clarify whether its possible to get duplicates of the hakkon weapons?

 

Once you get a Hakkon weapon is it removed from your loot table?

 

IE when a player has 0 Hakkon weapons do they have a 5% chance of receiving a BiS weapon they don't already have? 

 

( 1 / 20 ) * ( 1 / 5 ) = 0.01 or a 1% chance to receive a SPECIFIC hakkon weapon but a static 5% to receive a NEW BiS weapon.

 

As you get items it would progress like this for a SPECIFIC hakkon weapon: 

 

( 1 / 20 ) * ( 1 / 4 ) = 0.0125 = 1.25% 

 

( 1 / 20 ) * ( 1 / 3 ) = 0.0167 = 1.67% 

 

( 1 / 20 ) * ( 1 / 2 ) = 0.0250 = 2.5% 

 

( 1 / 20 ) * ( 1 / 1 ) = 0.0500 = 5.0% 

 

Obviously RNG is RNG, and 5% is small enough that its going to be frustrating at times because some will have better luck than others. 

 

But, lets not forget what the Perilous dragon's loot table looks like: 

 

10% chance of receiving 1 of the 7 dragon weapons:

 

( 1 / 10 ) * ( 1 / 7 ) = 0.0140 = 1.4% chance to receive a specific dragon weapon w/ no guarantee of non-duplicates.

 

If we can't receive duplicates off NM dragons, perilous dragons actually had a lower chance of providing a NEW BiS weapon after a player received their second dragon item. I know many people who went quite a while before getting that LAST dragon item they needed. Actually, most people got that LAST one in the chest they gave out for free...ya know...the one that gave you only dragon items you didn't have.

 

If this is how drop-rates are currently working, I don't see it as that big of a deal. Sure its going to take longer for us to get items initially, but in the long run we should be completed with our manifests in around the same amount of NM dragon completions as it took Perilous dragon completions.

 

The frustration isn't coming from the drop-rate being too low, its that the community as a whole isn't completing nightmare dragon runs NEARLY as quickly as we completed the Perilous runs, or at the success rate per attempt. When you finish a NM run and don't come away with a Hakkon weapon...it stings more than the Perilous dragon did because the mode is more challenging, even for highly promoted players. As a result its harder to find PUG lobbies, especially right now while the higher promoted players are grouping up.

 

But, I want to also point out that those with high loot table scores were basically handed BiS equipment on the first day of the patch. Everyone I know who is in or close to the top bucket has multiples of the following:

 

ALL of the Perilous dragon Weapons, including Maul which is still beastly.

 

Bitter Axe - One-hander

Savage Thorn - Dagger

Skywatcher's Greatsword - 2-Hander

Heartstring - Bow

Longshot - Bow

Staff of Razikale

 

I'll go ahead and show what it will look like IF or WHEN Luke makes the drop-rate 1%. Because that will be frustrating, no doubt about it. You won't be farming NM dragons in hopes of getting an item. You'll be farming nightmare for XP and may get lucky with a dragon item.

 

( 1 / 100) * ( 1 / 5 ) = 0.0020 = 1 / 500 

 

( 1 / 100) * ( 1 / 4 ) = 0.0025 = 1 / 400

 

( 1 / 100) * ( 1 / 3 ) = 0.0033 = 1 / 300

 

( 1 / 100) * ( 1 / 2 ) = 0.005   = 1 / 200

 

( 1 / 100) * ( 1 )      = 0.01     = 1 / 100

 

Anyway, this is all mute if we can receive duplicates. If duplicates are possible its not pretty at all.

 

And of course, if we can't get duplicates...WHAT HAPPENS IF MY GREATSWORD IS CRUDDY BASE DAMAGE?! MY OCD WOULD GO BONKERS.

Modifié par Proto, 09 juillet 2015 - 09:21 .

[konfeta]

And of course, if we can't get duplicates...WHAT HAPPENS IF MY GREATSWORD IS CRUDDY BASE DAMAGE?! MY OCD WOULD GO BONKERS.

Weekend challenge, complete solo Hearbreaker Lightning Dragon, acquire 1 "reroll weapon base damage" consumable.

[Beerfish]

[ErySakasegawa]

 

Actually, that's not likely to believe. The women is wearing an apron. Being a classic picture, she's either in the kitchen or selling stuff. While selling stuff she has to use basic algebra to bill the products. While in the kitchen she has to count ingredients, watch the clock...math is everywhere!

[Innarra]

Were you throwing the same temper tantrum before dragon weapons came out, and you could in fact get every single piece of "best gear in the game" from playing nothing but routine?

 

 

 

The implementation of how you acquire Hakkon weapons is a broken part of the game. The theoretical possibility of gaining those weapons from playing sub-nightmare wasn't even the point of the post, the mitigation of RNG was. Hell, if it's that precious to need to be able to do the NM Dragon, just put the recipes as a one time drop for killing the dragon.

 

Not to mention, if you think getting something for extremely inefficient grinding for several hundred hours is "entitled freebies," you have some serious issues. In fact, let's go back to my post, where I explicitly said this - Example rate, probably too generous on the lower difficulties:

 

So, let's lower the hypothetical reward ratio for lower difficulty kills to 1/12, 1/6, 1/3, 1 and keep the the requirement for 100 pieces as in line with the vision of needing 100 nightmare kills. You ACTUALLY think someone is going to perform 1,200 routine dragon kills to get a a "free hand out?"

 

Regardless of your ideas on how to change the game and implement an entirely new loot system based on crafting end game content from mats dropped by routine bosses, that's just not going to happen. You live in a fantasy world.

 

Countless others have come onto this forum whining about how they can't get the end game gear because they're not good enough at the game to play in the end game areas that drop said end game gear. It was the same with Dragon Weapons on Perilous, as it is now with Hakkon Weapons on Nightmare. They just made Perilous farmable with the boost to armor (I'd say near game breaking). You can bring 4 level 1's and finish it with no problem, provided you have crafted the best armors. Get Dragon weapons, and you can even get Dragon weapons from regular chests now.

 

Don't cry because you can't get Hakkon weapons yet. Put in the time, you'll get there. Find a good group to play with, work out good strategies, and run a BUNCH of Nightmare. I've killed 12 Nightmare Dragons, and I don't have any of the Hakkon weapons yet, but it'll happen one of these days.

 

Don't expect a dev to decide to totally revamp the current loot system because you don't like it. Not gonna happen.

[Freedheart]

Goodness, I certainly hope no one took my 'rant' seriously...pretty much all of my posts can be disregarded outright for silliness, misinformation, or just the ramblings of a crazy-cat-lady-in-training - take your pick  

 

Of course, if you enjoy that sort of thing...  

[konfeta]

And regardless of how hard you are trying to slant this towards "lol noobs want ez mode god weapons," the complaint is fundamentally not about the difficulty, but about the RNG aspect of it. Really, what is your problem?

 

Bioware already put in multiple steps to mitigate the RNG (see class chests and loot bucket buffs), and by Luke's comment, they are willing to do it for the Hakkon weapons as well. The crafting idea was just conveying a theme - extreme effort should produce reliable reward and not a chance to be punched in the balls by random.

[Texasmotiv]

I'm all in favor of having a token system for the next round of uber weapons. Its just more interesting and rewarding than the pinata method.

But the tokens for sure need to be hard to acquire.

[Luke Barrett]

Just an update on this:

 

They're still currently at 5% until tomorrow.

 

Starting tomorrow the drop rate for the first one is 15%. Second one is 7.5%, Third is 5% and after that is 2%.

Additionally, starting tomorrow only Players above a certain loot threshold can get the Unique Dragon and Hakkon weapons (Routine/Threatening ones are still the same).

 

The thresholds are quite low (Dragon weapons is around 200 items looted and Hakkon weapons are around 600) - this is to prevent skipping loot progression/content for new accounts.

[Spin-Orbit]

Just an update on this:
 
They're still currently at 5% until tomorrow.
 
Starting tomorrow the drop rate for the first one is 15%. Second one is 7.5%, Third is 5% and after that is 2%.
Additionally, starting tomorrow only Players above a certain loot threshold can get the Unique Dragon and Hakkon weapons (Routine/Threatening ones are still the same).
 
The thresholds are quite low (Dragon weapons is around 200 items looted and Hakkon weapons are around 600) - this is to prevent skipping loot progression/content for new accounts.

Great new Luke, how about daggers one or 2?

[Proto]

Starting tomorrow the drop rate for the first one is 15%. Second one is 7.5%, Third is 5% and after that is 2%.

 

Interesting way of doing it, Luke. I'm not opposed, though. Sounds better than a flat 1%.

 

Game 7 - 1st Weapon

 

Game 20 - 2nd Weapon

 

Game 40 - 3rd Weapon

 

Game 90 - 4th Weapon

 

Game 140 - 5th Weapon

 

Good luck to everyone who'll be attempting to pull their 4th or 5th tonight. 

[Luke Barrett]

Great new Luke, how about daggers one or 2?

 

Yes, sorry forgot to mention daggers will be set to max of 1 as of tomorrow as well. Depending how many people have 2 we may just leave them else I'll take the lesser damage of the two and replace it with something else instead.

[Piffle]

replace it with something else instead.

 

Noooooooooooo *sob*

 

....

 

If you are going to replace it, can I pick? 

[sonofbarak]

Just an update on this:

 

They're still currently at 5% until tomorrow.

 

Starting tomorrow the drop rate for the first one is 15%. Second one is 7.5%, Third is 5% and after that is 2%.

Additionally, starting tomorrow only Players above a certain loot threshold can get the Unique Dragon and Hakkon weapons (Routine/Threatening ones are still the same).

 

The thresholds are quite low (Dragon weapons is around 200 items looted and Hakkon weapons are around 600) - this is to prevent skipping loot progression/content for new accounts.

 

Now if you got one Hakkon weapon alrdy does it count against you on Friday??

[Texasmotiv]

Wait... Luke can go into our inventories and take stuff? More importantly he can put stuff in? We need the address for where to send our baked goods/gift certificates.

[kmeeg]

Yes, sorry forgot to mention daggers will be set to max of 1 as of tomorrow as well. Depending how many people have 2 we may just leave them else I'll take the lesser damage of the two and replace it with something else instead.

 

Keep the 2 daggers in the game. I recon 99 out of 100 ppl would prefer there being 2 daggers. It is a worthy goal to grind for (many will) and it is in no way game breaking.

 

I am lucky to also have 2 daggers and I tested it out in NM earlier today. It is great fun, but Isabel were still outperformed by certain other classes.

[Wavebend]

Keep the 2 daggers in the game. I recon 99 out of 100 ppl would prefer there being 2 daggers. It is a worthy goal to grind for (many will) and it is in no way game breaking.

 

I am lucky to also have 2 daggers and I tested it out in NM earlier today. It is great fun, but Isabel were still outperformed by certain other classes.

 

It makes the melee rogue classes much better (especially duelist) than the ranged ones

[galoistot]

Yes, sorry forgot to mention daggers will be set to max of 1 as of tomorrow as well. Depending how many people have 2 we may just leave them else I'll take the lesser damage of the two and replace it with something else instead.

Wielding 2 hakkon daggers means 340% critical damage.Please dont just leave them.It's unfair.

[Pork]

That would be nice. Give me a better chance of the class I'm using to drop that weapon!

Ugh. I've been farming nightmare for the past few days and zero drops. I don't know how many runs I have performed anymore, but I was unavailable to do them in the first magical few hours before the supposed drop chance decrease to 1%. Other players have gotten drops, I have none.

Thanks for your data points.

LOL Youre way out of your depth here Drasa. Read up on Sun Tzus Art of Hakkon Weapons before attempting another NM run.

[akots1]

FTFY

... Don't expect a dev not to decide to totally revamp the current loot system because I like it. ...

[Zantazar]

... You live in a fantasy world.

 

... come onto this forum whining

 

... Don't cry

I do love those non-patronising and non-condascending mature comments/statements. I must alter my mistaken understanding of debate where people exchange points of view/opinions and possibly learn/realise things whilst not necessarily agreeing with each other. Just popping out of my pram to pick the toys up that I inadvertantly threw on the floor.

 

Zan the Man has a Plan