72 réponses à ce sujet

[andy6915]

I'll explain myself better: I've already played a KE, on nightmare, while using mostly Static Cage, Chain Lightning, electric staff for the Barrage (qunari=sarebaas!) and Fire Mine. Against certain enemies (pride and despair demons) I went melee with the spirit blade. It was fun.

Now I want to try another mage, but I don't want to use the same spells I used before (I know I can't ignore Barrage and Fire Mine, that's a stupid decision by the developers imo). I ignored the Winter tree with the KE, so I thought it was a good idea to use it on a rift mage, given the mana regen passive would allow an extended use of blizzard (my support AI mages always use ice mine in my playthoughs, so I don't want to use it).

The point is: no Blizzard = same mage as before = not interested. I don't need it to be the best spec, I just want to use blizzard a lot. I also don't want to get pwned (mostly a JoH problem), so the build still has to be efficient.

 

You're already switching from lighting to fire and KE to RM, that's not enough change? Jeez, just switch out blizzard for fire wall and drop it on groups of enemies as your main CC... There, done, now it's different from your last playthrough. Mixing things up doesn't mean you have to specialize in the most useless skill tree in the game.

[draken-heart]

I would actually say that balancing winter and inferno is best, since you would want to solve most situations and those are pretty much the most common elements to resist or be weak against.

[andy6915]

Look, you want a good build that I do for RM? This is my setup, and how I set Solas up too.

 

Winters grasp (upgraded)

fade step (upgraded to do ice damage, intentionally dash through enemies with it as much as possible)

chain lighting (upgraded again)

pull of the abyss (you know what, just count all but barrier as upgraded from here)

stonefist

fire mire

fire wall

barrier

 

 

That covers every single main element and leaves no real weaknesses in your style. Is that not mixed up enough from your storm mage?

 

edit:

 

Or if CC isn't super important to you, switch out winters grasp for energy barrage (ice element staff).

[draken-heart]

Look, you want a good build that I do for RM? This is my setup, and how I set Solas up too.

 

Winters grasp (upgraded)

fade step (upgraded to do ice damage, intentionally dash through enemies with it as much as possible)

chain lighting (upgraded again)

pull of the abyss (you know what, just count all but barrier as upgraded from here)

stonefist

fire mire

fire wall

barrier

 

 

That covers every single main element and leaves no real weaknesses in your style. Is that not mixed up enough from your storm mage?

 

Drop chain lightning for Elemental Barrage. Chain lightning shocks enemies, which is 100% TERRIBLE for a Rift mage.

[Cmpunker13]

I honestly think that Blizzard is more of an "OH ****" spell than anything else. But I do believe that the freeze is worth it on a nightmare build. On nightmare, enemief have higher health and do more damage (I believe, never played on nightmare) so it would stand to reason that, especially in a non-crafting pre-skyhold run, you would want anything that would give an advantage to keeping your party alive.

 

I don't think Blizzard is viable pre-skyhold (or post-skyhold, tbh), as you won't be able to sustain it (the main reason why nobody uses it except for rift mages). My run with the KE was my first run on the game and it was on nightmare; static cage + elemental barrage and an AI mage with ice mine was enough most of the time pre-skyhold.

If I will roll this rift mage, pre-skyhold I'll go spirit, trying to use dispel/mind blast to combo enemies frozen with winter's grasp (and mana surge). Hope it works.

[andy6915]

Drop chain lightning for Elemental Barrage. Chain lightning shocks enemies, which is 100% TERRIBLE for a Rift mage.

 

Not... Entirely. I know, the sleep "bug". However... That can actually be VERY useful to activate intentionally. You ever killed red templar knights 6 levels above yourself on nightmare by putting them to sleep every couple of seconds? I have. They took several minutes and could kill the warriors in very short order, yet they couldn't because they spent 90% of the battle sleeping because of how often I was reapplying the status effect. It was actually an extremely effective form of crowd control.

[draken-heart]

Not... Entirely. I know, the sleep "bug". However... That can actually be VERY useful to activate intentionally. You ever killed red templar knights 6 levels above yourself on nightmare by putting them to sleep every couple of seconds? I have. They took several minutes and could kill the warriors in very short order, yet they couldn't because they spent 90% of the battle sleeping because of how often I was reapplying the status effect. It was actually an extremely effective form of crowd control.

 

And as a rift mage, you sacrifice the mana regen, extra damage and duration thanks to sacrificing the weaken effect for that sleep.

[Cmpunker13]

You're already switching from lighting to fire and KE to RM, that's not enough change? Jeez, just switch out blizzard for fire wall and drop it on groups of enemies as your main CC... There, done, now it's different from your last playthrough. Mixing things up doesn't mean you have to specialize in the most useless skill tree in the game.

 

No, I had Fire Mine too with the KE. So I was Electricity and Fire. KE passive were good enough to keep me alive.

What I hate with mages in this game is that you are forced to take certain spells and certain passives. This isn't good for me. With the rift mage I'd like to try a new set of abilities. Yes, I will use Fire Mine and the Barrage again. I'll use the spec skills. I just wanted to try something different, and Blizzard seemed cool enough to justify a new playthough. I didn't think about wall of fire, it doesn't seem to a have a lot of synergy with PoA, however.

 

Chain Lightning and electric staffs are not good for a rift mage due to the sleep bug.

[andy6915]

And as a rift mage, you sacrifice the mana regen, extra damage and duration thanks to sacrificing the weaken effect for that sleep.

 

I didn't say it was a combo to use often, just that it is useful enough to use in some situations. Besides, making them enemy weakened and then hitting them with chain lightning doesn't put them to sleep. So you can decide whether to make enemies sleep or not by simply paying enough attention to remember what order to use chain lightning in. Want to knock them out, chain lightning comes first. Want to damage, rift power power comes first. You can choose whether they sleep or not, it simply gives you a tactical advantage.

[andy6915]

No, I had Fire Mine too with the KE. So I was Electricity and Fire. KE passive were good enough to keep me alive.

What I hate with mages in this game is that you are forced to take certain spells and certain passives. This isn't good for me. With the rift mage I'd like to try a new set of abilities. Yes, I will use Fire Mine and the Barrage again. I'll use the spec skills. I just wanted to try something different, and Blizzard seemed cool enough to justify a new playthough. I didn't think about wall of fire, it doesn't seem to a have a lot of synergy with PoA, however.

 

Chain Lightning and electric staffs are not good for a rift mage due to the sleep bug.

 

Okay, you'll have fire mine on both builds... And? I bet you had barrier on both too. Them sharing 1 or 2 spells doesn't make them too similar. And how is PoA bad with fire wall? Pull them into the abyss and drop a fire wall on them, and they're stuck in damage-over-time hell. And if a fire mine was dropped on them during that... Even more overkill. And again, that "bug" can be useful if you decide to use it right. Just remember shocked>weaken=sleep, weaken>shock=no sleep.

[draken-heart]

I didn't say it was a combo to use often, just that it is useful enough to use in some situations. Besides, making them enemy weakened and then hitting them with chain lightning doesn't put them to sleep. So you can decide whether to make enemies sleep or not by simply paying enough attention to remember what order to use chain lightning in. Want to knock them out, chain lightning comes first. Want to damage, rift power power comes first. You can choose whether they sleep or not, it simply gives you a tactical advantage.

 

Or I could just take an assassin rogue and upgrade Knockout bomb and powder.

 

Might SEEM useful, but when you stack it up to keeping weaken up, it is not worth it.

[andy6915]

Or I could just take an assassin rogue and upgrade Knockout bomb and powder.

 

...Nope. I'm going to tell you something interesting. Rift mage's sleep somehow lasts about 2 or 3 times as long as the rogue sleep abilities. It lasts way way way longer. Rift mages can be the ultimate sleep masters.

[draken-heart]

...Nope. I'm going to tell you something interesting. Rift mage's sleep somehow lasts about 2 or 3 times as long as the rogue sleep abilities. It lasts way way way longer. Rift mages can be the ultimate sleep masters.

 

And the ultimate losers without weaken. Not worth it in the slightest, no matter HOW you try to spin it.

[Cmpunker13]

Okay, you'll have fire mine on both builds... And? I bet you had barrier on both too. Them sharing 1 or 2 spells doesn't make them too similar.

 

No, I didn't have barrier, just fade step.

KE: Fire Mine, Barrage, Immolate, Cage, Chain Lightining, spirit blade, fade step.

Rift: Fire Mine, Barrage, Immolate, fade step have to be there. I will add the three spec skills, maybe a cc spell. I don't know, I'm not convinced.

 

Thanks for the feedback, btw

[andy6915]

And the ultimate losers without weaken. Not worth it in the slightest, no matter HOW you try to spin it.

 

You tried to argue blizzard is good CC, while trying to say that a 9 meter sleep field that knocks enemies out for a full 20 seconds or so is bad because it temporarily turns off weaken while the enemies are harmless because of sleep? Uh... Logic doesn't work that way. You can recharge from no mana to full without weaken in the time it takes them to wake up, which is pretty much perfect if you're in a bad situation. Like red templars 6 levels above you, which no amount of weaken will save you from.

 

 

No, I didn't have barrier, just fade step.

KE: Fire Mine, Barrage, Immolate, Cage, Chain Lightining, spirit blade, fade step.

Rift: Fire Mine, Barrage, Immolate, fade step have to be there. I will add the three spec skills, maybe a cc spell. I don't know, I'm not convinced.

 

Thanks for the feedback, btw

 

No barrier? Even for a KE, what kind of mage doesn't have barrier? That's like a rogue without stealth!

[draken-heart]

You tried to argue blizzard is good CC, while trying to say that a 9 meter sleep field that knocks enemies out for a full 20 seconds or so is bad because it temporarily turns off weaken while the enemies are harmless because of sleep? Uh... Logic doesn't work that way.

 

 

 

No barrier? Even for a KE, what kind of mage doesn't have barrier? That's like a rogue without stealth!

 

Blizzard does NOT remove the rift mage passives which are important to spec. The bug does.

[Cmpunker13]

 

No barrier? Even for a KE, what kind of mage doesn't have barrier? That's like a rogue without stealth!

 

My AI mage had a powered up barrier. Also I'm a fan of the guard on hit masterwork, so defense was not really a problem.

Also I hate stealth in rogues; in DAO I had a strenght rogue

[andy6915]

Blizzard does NOT remove the rift mage passives which are important to spec. The bug does.

 

You missed an edit.

 

You can recharge from no mana to full without weaken in the time it takes them to wake up, which is pretty much perfect if you're in a bad situation. Like red templars 6 levels above you, which no amount of weaken will save you from. Weaken being turned off doesn't matter when you have a full 20 seconds or so to just rest up and wait around or set a great combo up while they're harmless. You seem to think enemies not being weakened for any amount of times is a bad idea, even when the time in which they're not weakened they're left harmless. You can go 5 seconds without weakened enemies, it's not going to kill you... Especially when they're not going to be doing much of anything for a while until they wake. Losing weaken isn't bad if it gets you such an advantage.

[andy6915]

My AI mage had a powered up barrier. Also I'm a fan of the guard on hit masterwork, so defense was not really a problem.

Also I hate stealth in rogues; in DAO I had a strenght rogue

 

I meant in DAI. Stealth wasn't that needed in DAO, but it's pretty much vital for a rogue in DAI.

[draken-heart]

You missed an edit.

 

You can recharge from no mana to full without weaken in the time it takes them to wake up, which is pretty much perfect if you're in a bad situation. Like red templars 6 levels above you, which no amount of weaken will save you from. Weaken being turned off doesn't matter when you have a full 20 seconds or so to just rest up and wait around or set a great combo up while they're harmless. You seem to think enemies not being weakened for any amount of times is a bad idea, even when the time in which they're not weakened they're left harmless. You can go 5 seconds without weakened enemies, it's not going to kill you... Especially when they're not going to be doing much of anything for a while until they wake. Losing weaken isn't bad if it gets you such an advantage.

 

Do you not attack them then? Because that makes no sense. You attack, they wake up, wasted combo.

[andy6915]

Do you not attack them then? Because that makes no sense. You attack, they wake up, wasted combo.

 

It takes a second or 2 of attacking for them to wake. And besides, you see no advantage in being able to completely disable an entire group for 20 or so seconds? Even if they woke up immediately, that still means that you can let abilities recharge while you wait, let mana regen while you wait, allow mages times to put up barriers, warriors time to put up guard... 20 seconds of disabled enemies gives you all the time in the world to turn the battle in your favor, you just have to not hit them. They go to sleep=you have a long time to do what you have to before getting preemptive strikes on them. Hell, you can lock them in nearly perpetual sleep by waiting until your mana and spells are recharged and hitting them with the sleep combo first thing after they wake up and knock them right back out. That's basically how I took those red templars out, just knocking them out with sleep within seconds of them waking up.

 

And party members won't automatically attack sleeping enemies unless they were in mid-attack. A sleeping enemy is like a non-hostile animal, they only resume attacking when you make the first hit.

[Cmpunker13]

I meant in DAI. Stealth wasn't that needed in DAO, but it's pretty much vital for a rogue in DAI.

 

I don't like the stab-out-of-stealth gameplay, unless I'm playing games like Skyrim or Dishonored. DA2 had a nice rogue, but it was mostly a ninja, tbh.

I thought of doing a tempest DW without stealth (or with stealth as a panic button), but I don't know if I'll ever do it as pre-skyhold the DW was too painful.

 

Also, I don't like normal mages, I'm more for evil mages like warlocks, witchdoctors and necromancers. I had an arcane warrior in DAO, my favourite class. DA2 was the first game where I liked mages. Thought the KE could bring some of the old DAO feeling, but it didn't. It was still fun, but not i'm-a-badass-mage-in-heavy-armor fun

[draken-heart]

It takes a few seconds of attacking for them to wake. And besides, you see no advantage in being able to completely disable an entire group for 20 or so seconds? Even if they woke up immediately, that still means that you can let abilities recharge while you wait, let mana regen while you wait, allow mages times to put up barriers, warriors time to put up guard... 20 seconds of disabled enemies gives you all the time in the world to turn the battle in your favor. They go to sleep=you have a long time to do what you have to before getting preemptive strikes on them. Hell, you can lock them in nearly perpetual sleep by waiting until your mana and spells are recharged and hitting them with the sleep combo first thing after they wake up and knock them right back out. That's basically how I took those red templars out, just knocking them out with sleep within seconds of them waking up.

 

If I lose the Rift mage bonuses? No, there is no benefit.

 

If you attack/are attacked by a large group of enemies, sleep one small portion of it, then attack the rest who did not have the weaken effect on them, then you are just wasting mana for no good reason.

[andy6915]

If I lose the Rift mage bonuses? No, there is no benefit.

 

Lose rift mage benefits for a couple seconds=20 seconds of enemies not doing anything is definitely a benefit. Nevermind the fact that you can simply go back to making them perpetually weakened after they wake. It's not like you have to choose between "they never weaken again" and "they never sleep again", you can make them sleep and simply reapply the weaken effect as soon as they're awake again. You're losing weaken only until you hit them with another RM spell, so long as the RM spell doesn't follow a chain lightning.

 

Tell you what, go try this out on some high level enemies. It will take you 20 minutes and 1 respec, you don't even need to save. You might be surprised in how well it works. I'm not saying to abandon the RM playstyle of using weakness to make use of your RM passives, I'm merely saying that sleep is a useful combo to use once in a while.

[andy6915]

Double post:

 

Look, you talked about blizzard being a panic button? What is a better panic button that a mass-sleep spell that leaves enemies standing around for 20 second unable to do anything for the entire length of the sleep? One combo, and every enemy in 10 meters basically exits the fight for a while. That is way better than a 2 second freeze every several seconds.