72 réponses à ce sujet

[draken-heart]

Lose rift mage benefits for a couple seconds=20 seconds of enemies not doing anything is definitely a benefit. Nevermind the fact that you can simply go back to making them perpetually weakened after they wake. It's not like you have to choose between "they never weaken again" and "they never sleep again", you can make them sleep and simply reapply the weaken effect as soon as they're awake again. You're losing weaken only until you hit them with another RM spell, so long as the RM spell doesn't follow a chain lightning.

 

Tell you what, go try this out on some high level enemies. It will take you 20 minutes and 1 respec, you don't even need to save. You might be surprised in how well it works. I'm not saying to abandon the RM playstyle of using weakness to make use of your RM passives, I'm merely saying that sleep is a useful combo to use once in a while.

 

And every attack without the rift mage bonuses are not useful in the long run to even be worth trying that combo. I get a decent combo with winter's grasp/ice mine+shatter without losing my rift mage bonuses. 20 seconds of having to do nothing  to an enemy vs just outright killing them with a shatter combo or just being plain overpowered with crafted gear. Sorry, keeping my rift mage bonuses 100% of the time.

[andy6915]

And every attack without the rift mage bonuses are not useful in the long run to even be worth trying that combo. I get a decent combo with winter's grasp/ice mine+shatter without losing my rift mage bonuses. 20 seconds of having to do nothing  to an enemy vs just outright killing them with a shatter combo or just being plain overpowered with crafted gear. Sorry, keeping my rift mage bonuses 100% of the time.

 

Remember, it's 10 meter sleep. Chain lightning hits a very wide area, as does most RM spells. You're not making 1 or 2 enemies sleep, you're making basically every enemy in the vicinity sleep. You're basically making the battle end for 20 seconds, giving you enough time do do whatever you want. And I think you missed my last post, it was after the one you quoted.

[draken-heart]

Remember, it's 10 meter sleep. Chain lightning hits a very wide area, as does most RM spells. You're not making 1 or 2 enemies sleep, you're making basically every enemy in the vicinity sleep. You're basically making the battle end for 20 seconds, giving you enough time do do whatever you want. And I think you missed my last post, it was after the one you quoted.

 

And if the enemy is a large enough group/spread out far enough, that 10 meters is not helpful. A dead enemy is one that is not attacking, and thus is a FAR SUPERIOR form of crowd control than a sleep combo.

[andy6915]

And if the enemy is a large enough group/spread out far enough, that 10 meters is not helpful.

 

Well, sleep doesn't even work on large enemies... So why would you even try using it on that? And you still haven't actually tried it out yet like I told you to, because your preconceived notions are making you not want to bother.

 

Did you remember how this debate started? It started with you saying chain lightning is useless for a RM. An assertion I have disproven. It's your choice whether you're going to cancel weaken with sleep, you're not getting disadvantaged at all by having chain lightning on a RM. You seem to think having CL means your weaken effect will constantly be canceled, but that's only true if you're so stupid that you can't remember that CL should simply never be used on an enemy that isn't weakened. And I doubt anyone is that stupid. All it does is gives you a lightning spell that can be turned into a mass CC spell if you want it to. Don't want to ever put enemies to sleep? Fine. But having chain lightning isn't going to suddenly make it so that enemies are going to sleep when you don't want them to. If it's you being worried you Inquisitor's AI will make sleep happen on accident if you switch to someone else for a minute, simply turn of the AI's ability to use CL.

[draken-heart]

Well, sleep doesn't even work on large enemies... So why would you even try using it on that? And you still haven't actually tried it out yet like I told you to, because your preconceived notions are making you not want to bother.

 

Did you remember how this debate started? It started with you saying chain lightning is useless for a RM. An assertion I have disproven. It's your choice whether you're going to cancel weaken with sleep, you're not getting disadvantaged at all by having chain lightning on a RM. You seem to think having CL means your weaken effect will constantly be canceled, but that's only true if you're so stupid that you can't remember that CL should simply never be used on an enemy that isn't weakened. And I doubt anyone is that stupid. All it does is gives you a lightning spell that can be turned into a mass CC spell if you want it to. Don't want to ever put enemies to sleep? Fine. But having chain lightning isn't going to suddenly make it so that enemies are going to sleep when you don't want them to. If it's you being worried you Inquisitor's AI will make sleep happen on accident if you switch to someone else for a minute, simply turn of the AI's ability to use CL.

 

Or never take Chain lighting on a rift mage. I am playing a rogue archer assassin right now, so that is not a problem. To me, simply put, no matter how good the combo may be, it is not worth the sacrifice of all the sweet passives that make a rift mage awesome (duration on status effects like Burn, freeze, chill, knockdown/stun, etc. and infinite mana based on damage done).

 

IF I can kill an enemy with a fire mine in 10 seconds, over waiting 20-30 seconds to kill them, I am going to take the faster kill than the CC.

[andy6915]

Anyway, I'm tired of this debate. My only point was that chain lightning being on a RM isn't the super bad idea you think it is. Honestly, switching it for energy barrage isn't even a bad idea. I wasn't arguing against energy barrage with a lightning staff, I was arguing for CL. I didn't mean for that point to get dragged out into over a dozen back and forth posts on it.

[draken-heart]

Andy, here is a scenario: You get into a fight that, with your gear, should last about ten-twenty seconds. You CL a group of them that were weakened, putting them to sleep, then kill the rest. You have to wait 20 MORE seconds to kill the enemies you sleeped so they can wake up for you to kill them. How is that a benefit?

[andy6915]

Andy, here is a scenario: You get into a fight that, with your gear, should last about ten-twenty seconds. You CL a group of them that were weakened, putting them to sleep, then kill the rest. You have to wait 20 MORE seconds to kill the enemies you sleeped so they can wake up for you to kill them. How is that a benefit?

 

What? I don't have to wait to kill them. They're sleeping, but I can start attacking them to get the fight going again at any time I want. And against those overleveled templars, I won SOLELY due to the sleep combo. You don't understand how outclasses I was, I was in that Du Lion snowy place almost immediately after reaching Skyhold. As in level 19 enemies with me being like level 13 or 14. It's not until I started abusing the sleep combo that I could even win fights in that area, because constant sleep combos meant the enemies pretty much couldn't fight back. They'd wake up, get a swing or 2 in, go back to sleep, spend a good 4 second getting hit, wake up, get a swing or 2 in... You get the picture.

[draken-heart]

What? I don't have to wait to kill them. They're sleeping, but I can start attacking them to get the fight going again at any time I want. And against those overleveled templars, I won SOLELY due to the sleep combo. You don't understand how outclasses I was, I was in that Du Lion snowy place almost immediately after reaching Skyhold. As in level 19 enemies with me being like level 13 or 14. It's not until I started abusing the sleep combo that I could even win fights in that area, because constant sleep combos meant the enemies pretty much couldn't fight back. They'd wake up, get a swing or 2 in, go back to sleep, spend a good 4 second getting hit, wake up, get a swing or 2 in... You get the picture.

 

It was a GENERAL example.

[andy6915]

It was a GENERAL example.

What was, you telling me that I for some reason need to wait for the sleep to wear off on its own before I would be allowed to attack again?

[draken-heart]

What was, you telling me that I for some reason need to wait for the sleep to wear off on its own before I would be allowed to attack again?

 

What I put up, was an example. Sleep can make the fight last longer than it needs to. IF you can kill an enemy in half the time AND mana it takes to put them to sleep, it would make 100 times more sense just to kill them rather than waste either on sleeping them.

[andy6915]

What I put up, was an example. Sleep can make the fight last longer than it needs to. IF you can kill an enemy in half the time AND mana it takes to put them to sleep, it would make 100 times more sense just to kill them rather than waste either on sleeping them.

 

True, your damage will be lower than using weakness to its full effect. But your survivability will rise proportionally. Sleep can be what your RM uses when a fight is going south and they need time to get party members revived or a barrier put up but barrier not being cooled off yet (giving barrier time to cool off to use the second you wake them) or or to slowly kill the enemies that are out of your league by giving them no ability to fight back by repeatedly making them sleep constantly. I never argued that sleep combos were good for offense, I was arguing that they're good for defense. Remember earlier when I said sleep combos are good for panic buttons?

[draken-heart]

True, your damage will be lower than using weakness to its full effect. But your survivability will rise proportionally. Sleep can be what your RM uses when a fight is going south and they need time to get party members revived or a barrier put up but barrier not being cooled off yet (giving barrier time to cool off to use the second you wake them) or or to slowly kill the enemies that are out of your league by giving them no ability to fight back by repeatedly making them sleep constantly. I never argued that sleep combos were good for offense, I was arguing that they're good for defense. Remember earlier when I said sleep combos are good for panic buttons?

 

Killing an enemy outright will also raise survivability proportionally. And if you can do that in less time, why even bother wasting mana comboing with chain lightning?

[andy6915]

Killing an enemy outright will also raise survivability proportionally. And if you can do that in less time, why even bother wasting mana comboing with chain lightning?

 

And what if you can't kill them outright? Here's a scenario. The whole party but the RM is dead, there's 4 red templars including a RT knight left and they're at least 1 or 2 levels above yours, you have no potions=you're f*cked. Except! You dash away, hit them with a chain lightning and then a veilstrike, and... Done. You're safe. You get get the entire party up, wrap everyone in a barrier, drop a fire mine at the templar's feet and drop a PotA on them, and turn the whole damn fight around (and you haven't even fully woken them up yet). With one sleep combo.

[draken-heart]

And what if you can't kill them outright? Here's a scenario. The whole party but the RM is dead, there's 4 red templars including a RT knight left and they're at least 1 or 2 levels above yours, you have no potions=you're f*cked. Except! You dash away, hit them with a chain lightning and then a veilstrike, and... Done. You're safe. You get get the entire party up, wrap everyone in a barrier, drop a fire mine at the templar's feet and drop a PotA on them, and turn the whole damn fight around. With one sleep combo.

 

OR, you know, I do not go to those areas unless my gear is good.

 

I never go to Emprise or any high level area at level 10-11. That is  just plain stupid. I also try to keep my party's gear up to date.

[andy6915]

OR, you know, I do not go to those areas unless my gear is good.

 

By that notion, why use strategy at all? Just get yourself OP with gear and being overleveled, and not worry about a thing. That's what you just said to do, "why worry about a hard fight when I'll just make sure to avoid hard fights?".

[draken-heart]

By that notion, why use strategy at all? Just get yourself OP with gear and being overleveled, and not worry about a thing. That's what you just said to do, "why worry about a hard fight when I'll just make sure to avoid hard fights?".

 

If I went and just combo'd everything, what would be the point of having good gear when the enemy it makes sense on is already dead?

[andy6915]

If I went and just combo'd everything, what would be the point of having good gear when the enemy it makes sense on is already dead?

 

So what is your point here? Panic buttons are useless because there's no situations where I'll be screwed enough to need one? Then why was you arguing that blizzard is useful because it's a good panic button?

[draken-heart]

So what is your point here? Panic buttons are useless because there's no situations where I'll be screwed enough to need one? Then why was you arguing that blizzard is useful because it's a good panic button?

 

Y'know what a panic button is? You should. If I did something that stupid, I would be running, not trying to getting my party up to finish the fight, I would just be running.

[andy6915]

Y'know what a panic button is? You should. If I did something that stupid, I would be running, not trying to getting my party up to finish the fight, I would just be running.

 

And sleep knocks them out for so long that they'll be de-spawned due to how far you ran before they could even wake up. That's a lot better than blizzard, which merely slows them down.

[mredders91]

Ok. well. I'm not gonna go read thought all of that lovers spat.

But this thing with "panic buttons", sleep can be a panic button I guess but not if it done by a rift mage as it takes time to set up, a rogue however could make use of it in that fashion but for a mage fade step / barrier make a better "panic button"

If you gonna cause sleep on enemies with a rift mage then you should be doing a combo of it with ether Immolate or Stonefist.

Still playing around with builds but I'm starting to like my current setup:

http://www.rpg-gamin...23135345155a601

PotA could be replaced by static cage and barrier could be replaced with fade step / aegis of the rift and a empty spot for mark of the rift. 

[Magdalena11]

I'm still trying to get the hang of the necromancer specialty (at level 24, I don't think there's much time left....)  Quick question.  The passive that brings you back from the dead hasn't triggered yet, for me or Dorian, and I wonder if I'm doing something wrong.  Any advice?

[ottffsse]

I'm still trying to get the hang of the necromancer specialty (at level 24, I don't think there's much time left....) Quick question. The passive that brings you back from the dead hasn't triggered yet, for me or Dorian, and I wonder if I'm doing something wrong. Any advice?

You need heal on hit or heal on kill gear in addition to death syphon. Death syphon alone will not trigger it.

When going in similicrum time 10 seconds in your head that you know approx when it ends. Just before it ends make sure to either cast a sustained damage spell (wall of fire or walking bomb) or launch energy barrage at a target. If you have heal on hit you should res, or at least have a much higher chance to res. But it needs hoh or hok items.

Note : this was prior to latest patch but I have not heard that this mechanic was changed.