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Thoughts at the end of a re-playthrough


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#1
Brass_Buckles

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Some will agree with me and some will disagree.  Just please, whichever side you take, be polite and respectful about it.

 

I've been replaying the game, since I wanted to play Jaws of Hakkon without any missing party members.  Now I'm done with JoH, and completely did all available side quests in all regions.  I just need to finish the game out with a complete run through Wicked Eyes, Wicked Hearts and the end game, basically, and I'm done.  This is not my first playthrough.  I got the game on release day, and beat it within a week or two afterward.  This time, I've taken more time, appreciated the plot and characters more, and gotten annoyed with all of the repetitive side quests and shard-hunting.

 

What has stuck out to me the most in this lengthy playthrough is that it is really too lengthy, in a not-good way.  The length is not taken up by deep plots or fascinating character conversations, it's taken up by forced slogs around mountains and through bogs to get to the next quest point.

 

Regions are, as my initial impression in my first playthrough told me, not all connected to the plot.  Some could have been cut entirely.  We have three desert areas.  They are all interesting looking, but I'd have rather seen other kinds of terrain if I must have all of these extra areas at all.  And, if they aren't directly tied into the main plot--preferably in a nonlinear fashion--and are basically things I'm doing extra for the influence/power/resources/whatever... then all I am actually getting out of visiting them is eye candy and extra lore.

 

I'm all for extra lore.  And I'm all for eye candy.  The problem here is that these extra areas are often gigantic, and yet, again, do not tie in directly with taking down Corypheus.

 

I would much rather have less exploration and more plot and lore.  Areas could have been cut down in size to allow them to tie in with the plots.  We did not really need three different kinds of mounts in dozens of recolors all with the same animations applied to their different meshes.

 

And I'm torn about this.  I want a tighter experience.  I want a more focused plot, but without forced linearity.  I want to be able to visit these regions for plot-important reasons, but I also want to meet fascinating people there.  Instead, the regions are vast and empty of people except for the dead (which makes sense in the Wastes, I suppose?) and maybe one or two stragglers.

 

I want to feel that my efforts within the plot matter and are far-reaching.  Inquisition has failed in that respect, too, because though I am closing rifts and healing the huge hole in the sky, they don't seem to have affected that many people.  The largest population center you encounter in the game is the Val Royeaux Summer Bazaar... followed by Redcliffe Village.  There are no rifts in Val Royeaux and only one outside of Redcliffe.  If the rifts aren't threatening the population at all, if I'm only saving the local wildlife...  well, that takes a lot of meaning out of everything I've done.  The most threatening plot I can remember was the red lyrium overtaking everything when siding with the mages.  After that... even though red lyrium is everywhere, it doesn't really seem to be that threatening in the sense that I don't see it harming harmless NPCs.

 

DAI needed more of the soul of a BioWare game.  When I played DA:O I could overhear NPCs having major conversations.  In DA:I there are only a few of cases of this that come to mind--mostly in Haven and Redcliffe, as if there were no time to implement more into other areas.  In DA:O, you would find these little snippets everywhere and they were memorable.  Remember Dog running up to you with a child he'd found in Denerim?  Remember the hungry Chantry sister who kept misspeaking the Chant and adding in foods?

 

I know, I know, technically I'm not supposed to finish everything until I beat the final boss and just want to play the game and goof off or whatever.  And that's what I kind of did on my first playthrough.  But the number of side quests available does not in any way make up for how very empty and desolate Thedas feels as represented by DA:I.  No major cities, other than Val Royeaux.  Most of the land you travel is sparsely inhabited, or has been evacuated by refugees.

 

I don't want to do away with exploration.  I just think the experience should be tightened up.  Preferably, don't add areas that don't directly tie into the plot, and make the ones that do be bigger areas, filled with rich lore, interesting places, and believable NPCs.  Exploration should be within areas you already have a good reason to visit--yes, I know all areas had reasons to go there in DA:I, but they were not all urgent need-to-visit areas for the main story.  Just because an area ties into the plot directly doesn't mean the plot has to be linear, either.  If you choose to go to X first, you can never visit Y, and vice versa.  Or, you could visit X, Y, or Z first, but the consequences to the locals will be different (and not 100% positive regardless which choice you make).  When you cut those extra areas, you can make the areas you do have more interesting, and put more interesting characters there.  You can make exploration less of a chore by making it less difficult to get to the main plot areas while still attracting the player's attention from the main plot with interesting landmarks or even NPCs who are coded to actively try to get the player's attention.

 

Again, I'm torn.  I get why the desert regions in particular are a bit empty.  I definitely understand the artistic value of a vast empty place filled with ruins, like the Hissing Wastes.  There is an appeal to galloping across the Wastes in the moonlight.  But aside from the beauty of these areas--which I know is enough for some players--they don't add much to the gameplay.  Forbidden Oasis was a pain to navigate.  Hissing Wastes was huge and empty and I honestly got a bit bored wandering around it to finish all side quests and find all shards.  I don't personally think "Because it's pretty" is a good enough reason to leave it in unless it's just a game about wandering around finding pretty things--the Wastes are one case where I think the entire region and the events within it could have been cut from the initial release, then fleshed out more post-development to make some very good DLC, given more time to work with the "idea" of the area.

 

In reality, the entirety of DA:I's plot is far under the 160+ hours I have into the current do-absolutely-everything playthrough.  Saying that the plot itself is 40 hours long is probably generous.

 

I know cuts were made, massive ones.  I don't know what kind of content was cut, beyond one or two things that were promoted early on that didn't ever appear in the final release.  Maybe the main plot did once involve every single area, and it was just too massive to finish on time.  The game's still good.  It's great, even.  It's just not really what I want when I play a BioWare game.  The tedium of wandering entire maps just to reach an important plot point takes away from the replay value you'd otherwise get by making lots of different decisions throughout the plot.  In an Elder Scrolls game, the decisions you make are more simplistic, generally affecting your character more than the world.  I don't feel any real urge to replay Skyrim because I want to know what happens if I decide to be a werewolf this time--because little will change.

 

When I pick up Skyrim, it's more like I'm playing a Fantasy Hero Life Simulator--there's a plot because fantasy heroes need quests, but meanwhile I can just take my horse for a ride, get married, adopt an orphan, learn a trade, cook some food... etc.  That's great, but that's not the kind of game Dragon Age is nor the kind of game it should try to be.  I don't want a life simulation; I want a story with some degree of freedom but a sense of urgency that I should do something about it.  Even if I can continue playing in the world after the story, the story and the characters inhabiting the world are the primary draw.  They are not props in the background of my fantasy life simulator--and maybe that's what makes BioWare games tend to be more lifelike than Elder Scrolls games, despite the (usually) smaller worlds.  When I think of replaying Dragon Age games, it's more because what happens if I choose the templars instead?  What if I execute everyone I'm set to judge?  Or make every mage tranquil?  What if I'm as mean as I can be to everyone?    What if I lie whenever possible and play along when not?  But then I remember running through the Hinterlands, and Crestwood, and the Fallow Mire, and the Forbidden Oasis, and... maybe I won't try those other playthroughs for a while, after all.

 

Sorry for the long ramble.  I know others have expressed similar points many times over.  It's just that during this replay, it's become even more apparent to me that DA:I would have been improved by being a tighter experience--and with more focus on plot and characters it could have been a far better game.  Once I've played all of the DLC that DA:I may have in the future, I am hopeful that a different approach is taken to the next game, or that at least that it is less devoid of interesting NPC characters.  Not sure if I'm up to that much hiking--maybe if my companions can ride with me and banter along the way next time?


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#2
duckley

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Nice analysis. I agree with most of it....however I have derived a ton of enjoyment from the game - hours and hours of game play and about 5 playthroughs. Right now I am playing TW3 and that game is as rich and deep and soulful as I have come to expect from DA.  It makes DA:I a bit pale in comparison.

 

 I think Bioware simply tried to do too much, and tried to please too many so the result was not a s focused as it could have been. Good for trying and good for being pretty successful. I think next game will be more focused and deeper.


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#3
Brass_Buckles

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Nice analysis. I agree with most of it....however I have derived a ton of enjoyment from the game - hours and hours of game play and about 5 playthroughs. Right now I am playing TW3 and that game is as rich and deep and soulful as I have come to expect from DA.  It makes DA:I a bit pale in comparison.

 

 I think Bioware simply tried to do too much, and tried to please too many so the result was not a s focused as it could have been. Good for trying and good for being pretty successful. I think next game will be more focused and deeper.

 

Oh, I did say I still think the game is great.  I did enjoy it and I do enjoy it, but I just keep thinking it could have been so, so much more than it is.  Witcher in general hasn't been my cup of tea.  Dragon Age has, but this shift to a more open world type has been very unfocused.  Part of it is probably due to the change in engine to Frostbite 2, which I heard early on might have limited the ability to implement large numbers of NPCs on screen at once that you'd expect of a bigger city area.  This is doubly true since they were basically deconstructiong Frostbite 2 to work in a customized way.  Hopefully they have it more or less mastered for Mass Effect: Andromeda, and what they learn there will carry over to Dragon Age: Whatever is Next.

 

My bigger concern is that less focus was put on making the various NPCs, except for the "important" ones who gave out plots, have any sort of life of their own, once you left Haven and Redcliffe.  I know quest-givers rarely have anything extra to say, but you used to hear all kinds of ambient dialogue, more than just snippets and snatches of phrases.  And, I feel like we need more plot, less trudging.  Exploration should be a joy, not a chore you have to do.  Smaller, more focused areas, or bigger areas but fewer of them would have been a good start.

 

And again... there's artistic value in what they did with certain areas for sure.  I don't want to downplay that or disparage it.  In another game, the entire point might be just to wander around to see all the pretty things there are to be seen--and I'm okay with those kinds of games as a form of relaxation, even.  But in Dragon Age, we're supposed to believe there's this at least somewhat important plot that we need to finish--an enemy who needs to be stopped before he destroys the entire world.  And there's no guarantee we can save the world even if we stop him.  So, even if my enemies are after some shiny artifact elsewhere, doesn't it make sense that I stay more focused on finding ways to stop my enemy as soon as possible?  His lackeys can have the shinies.  They'll be useless once the Big Bad is gone anyway!


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#4
SardaukarElite

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I am basically in agreement. The areas are nice, being in them is nice, but there isn't good enough reasons to go to them, and they aren't engaging enough when you are there.

 

Again, I'm torn.  I get why the desert regions in particular are a bit empty.  I definitely understand the artistic value of a vast empty place filled with ruins, like the Hissing Wastes.  There is an appeal to galloping across the Wastes in the moonlight.  But aside from the beauty of these areas--which I know is enough for some players--they don't add much to the gameplay.  Forbidden Oasis was a pain to navigate.  Hissing Wastes was huge and empty and I honestly got a bit bored wandering around it to finish all side quests and find all shards.  I don't personally think "Because it's pretty" is a good enough reason to leave it in unless it's just a game about wandering around finding pretty things--the Wastes are one case where I think the entire region and the events within it could have been cut from the initial release, then fleshed out more post-development to make some very good DLC, given more time to work with the "idea" of the area.

 

I don't think the Hissing Wastes' emptiness is actually a problem, I think the issue is that when you spread out the inane content that is in most areas holes appear in it. If there was a solid story to Hissing Wastes, which had you traversing those vast distances on the way to a clearly defined goal you were aware of and looking for I think the emptiness would actually augment that sense of going on a journey. If they were to start putting main plot in the areas I would rather the areas be like Hissing Wastes than say Hinterlands because I don't want to be tripping over quest markers every thirty seconds.

 

I do really like deserts though.


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#5
line_genrou

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Well, you kinda lose your point when you say the game is great but list various relevant problems which makes the game NOT great.

A lot of people feel the same.

Witcher 3: Wild Hunt showed how mediocre DAI is with only 6 months of release between them. I'm sorry, but it's the truth and it's impossible to not compare those two big titles.

 

I'm sure when people recommend RPGs in the future, they will mention the Mass Effect trilogy, The Witcher trilogy, Baldur's Gate and other Infinity Engine RPGs and they will mention Dragon Age: Origins, but not DAI.

 

Dragon Age: Inquisition is very pretty with no depth, and that kills the magic of any good RPG.


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#6
Ieldra

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@OP:

I don't agree with every point of your criticism, but I agree that the balance between story and exploration should change, and that we need areas less sparsely inhabited by people, and people who have more to contribute to the story than standing around muttering to themselves and more to the world than just standing around. Also, fewer but bigger and more meaningful side-quests. I don't mind some fetch/collection quests, but DAI overdid it.


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#7
Ieldra

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I'm sure when people recommend RPGs in the future, they will mention the Mass Effect trilogy, The Witcher trilogy, Baldur's Gate and other Infinity Engine RPGs and they will mention Dragon Age: Origins, but not DAI.

Pfft. If roleplaying is important to you, I can only say do NOT play the ME trilogy. Game for game - DAO to ME1, DA2 to ME2, and DAI to ME3 most of all, the DA games trash ME utterly in that regard. Roleplaying felt most natural in DAO, yes, but DAI isn't really bad either, except for the effects of the thrice-damned paraphrasing.
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#8
line_genrou

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Pfft. If roleplaying is important to you, I can only say do NOT play the ME trilogy. Game for game - DAO to ME1, DA2 to ME2, and DAI to ME3 most of all, the DA games trash ME utterly in that regard. Roleplaying felt most natural in DAO, yes, but DAI isn't really bad either, except for the effects of the thrice-damned paraphrasing.

I already played ME trilogy, and despite the ridiculous ending, it is great.

I can't compare it to the DA series because the only similarity is that both have the RPG stamp, otherwise they are completely different.


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#9
Brass_Buckles

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Well, you kinda lose your point when you say the game is great but list various relevant problems which makes the game NOT great.

A lot of people feel the same.

Witcher 3: Wild Hunt showed how mediocre DAI is with only 6 months of release between them. I'm sorry, but it's the truth and it's impossible to not compare those two big titles.

 

I'm sure when people recommend RPGs in the future, they will mention the Mass Effect trilogy, The Witcher trilogy, Baldur's Gate and other Infinity Engine RPGs and they will mention Dragon Age: Origins, but not DAI.

 

Dragon Age: Inquisition is very pretty with no depth, and that kills the magic of any good RPG.

 

Just because I feel that there are problems with the game doesn't mean I can't still greatly enjoy it, or that I don't feel it's still a great game despite its flaws.  It took a replay to really appreciate the plot and characters best.  During my first playthrough things seemed choppy; I paid more attention the second time through.  I loved it through the first playthrough.  I still really like it in the second playthrough (I'm sort of holding off on finishing in case of story DLC).

 

The plot of DA:I is a bit weak as is the ending, but the characters are still stellar.  Even the ones I don't like as people are well written and complex.  My main complaint remains that there's not enough story and too much wandering around (in a forced way - as in I have to wander half the map anyway, or more, just to get to the next quest point even if it appears to be very close on my map).  That means more time wandering around to hear the banter, so it's not entirely bad.

 

tl;dr It is possible to criticize and find flaws within things you like.  Just because I think DAI is still pretty great doesn't mean I think it's perfect.



#10
Ieldra

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I already played ME trilogy, and despite the ridiculous ending, it is great.

I can't compare it to the DA series because the only similarity is that both have the RPG stamp, otherwise they are completely different.

It may or may not be great as a whole, but it certainly isn't great as a role-playing game. Meanwhile, the DA games have their flaws, but they're consistently better in the role-playing aspect. Not that there isn't significant room for improvement (doing away with the paraphrasing would be a large step in the right direction), but you notice the DA team's efforts to accomodate different character traits at key points in the story. Maybe they had to be kicked by the fans to do it (at least that's the impression I sometimes get), but what counts is that they did it. ME - ME3 most of all - sacrificed roleplaying for thematic streamlining.



#11
bEVEsthda

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I already played ME trilogy, and despite the ridiculous ending, it is great.

I can't compare it to the DA series because the only similarity is that both have the RPG stamp, otherwise they are completely different.

 

You can't even compare the games within the "DA series", because they are completely different.

However, I'm with Ieldra about DA:I, it has returned to being a role-playing game, despite the thrice-damned paraphrasing.

As for TW3, I'm not going to get it, so I can't say much about it, but if it's much like TW2, it's not a wrpg. Meaning I don't find much roleplaying value in it.

The criticism against DA:I, like about the plot or perceived "depth" - from a story-oriented audience, seem to mostly come from those who enjoy a "RPG" by being told a story. The same people who like TW, ME, FF and whatnot.

 

You can have your ME and TW. Just let me have some remnants of DA:O roleplaying left in DA.

If I can't have the successor to BG and DA:O, I'd rather have a Skyrim'ized DA (even if I don't need that since Bethesda already makes those games) than a ME in fantasy setting.


Modifié par bEVEsthda, 08 juillet 2015 - 08:45 .

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#12
line_genrou

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You can't even compare the games within the "DA series", because they are completely different.

However, I'm with Ieldra about DA:I, it has returned to being a role-playing game, despite the thrice-damned paraphrasing.

As for TW3, I'm not going to get it, so I can't say much about it, but if it's much like TW2, it's not a wrpg. Meaning I don't find much roleplaying value in it.

The criticism against DA:I, like about the plot or perceived "depth" - from a story-oriented audience, seem to mostly come from those who enjoy a "RPG" by being told a story. The same people who like TW, ME, FF and whatnot.

 

You can have your ME and TW. Just let me have some remnants of DA:O roleplaying left in DA.

If I can't have the successor to BG and DA:O, I'd rather have a Skyrim'ized DA (even if I don't need that since Bethesda already makes those games) than a ME in fantasy setting.

 

Well, I really don't see this role-playing in DAI compared to DAO.

DAO gave you plenty of choices, while in DAI everything was dumbed down and made flashier. The inquisitor is just there and we have more focus on other characters than your own. Even DA2 felt more role-playing when focusing on your character's story and family.


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#13
Sidney

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I'm always amazed at he crazy love TW series gets with a limited Protagonist, limited love interests, button mashing combat with darn few options then again Skyrim always get loves with their no story line, craptastic FPS combat, pathetic voice acting and overly repetitive exploration and reused dungeons so I suspect a lot of this is a anything but this straw man.

DAI attempted to reverse the limits and gripes abut DA2 but they didn't really stick that landing. I'm not a fan of the open worlds at all, hate the TES games for it. The most damaging part of DAI was the decision to abstract the main quest out of the exploration. You compare KOTOR or DAO with DAI and the reason the story feels more connected is that the things you need to do to move forward are actually part of the areas you are in. In DAI they aren't part of the exploration in most cases so one is exploring for the sake basically of grinding away. There is really for example no reason to be in EDL or the Hissing Wastes in terms of the overall story. Now a lot of this is cosmetic. In DAO the Breciallian Forest has no purpose, the temple does, and that is a whole other map just like the story quests in DAI are a whole other map but the appearance of connectivity matters in this case in terms of the experience. It is sort of the same problem I had with ME1 where the story quests were their own standalone beasts and all the UCWs are just time sucking XP grabs.
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#14
Murdan

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I like Skyrim too because you really could start from different sides, you could do just 1/3 of the world and still you could finish the game. There were no collectibles that would force you to go to places that are boring otherwise, you had really freedom to pick up just the quests you wanted to RP, or join just 1 guild - total RP sandbox. I could play as a beggar, or retired imperial captain - there were always some groups of quests that would fit your own story. 

 

Well DAO and DA II were about the main story and the small world around, so till now the small dungeons were just big enough, even DAI was mainly about atmospere, so we will see what will be the next DA like.


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#15
bEVEsthda

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Well, I really don't see this role-playing in DAI compared to DAO.

DAO gave you plenty of choices, while in DAI everything was dumbed down and made flashier. The inquisitor is just there and we have more focus on other characters than your own. Even DA2 felt more role-playing when focusing on your character's story and family.

 

I don't compare.

There is the possibility for a role-playing element in both DA:I and DA:O, for those players who enjoy that. There is none in DA2.

Which makes one scratch one's head when people write "Even DA2 felt more role-playing...". Obviously they mean something different?

Role-watching?

Choices are important for role-playing, but just navigating the choice-forks in an interactive movie, while the game character does all the acting out and provides all the motives and emotions doesn't add up to anything.

 

I like DA:I. But I would have preferred that Bioware had stayed with the DA:O formula, since I don't need that kind of games from Bioware. Bethesda are already making them. Alas, Bioware can't. For reasons we can't understand, Bioware had continue with the DA2 formula (that is still the foundation, despite all the Skyrim influence), although heavily modified according to that particular criticism they chose to listen to. I'm just glad that the dialogue wheel was changed enough to let role-playing poke through a bit.


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#16
Eronair

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In reality, the entirety of DA:I's plot is far under the 160+ hours I have into the current do-absolutely-everything playthrough.  Saying that the plot itself is 40 hours long is probably generous.

 

Well, let's be honest, there's probably more like 10 hours of main storyline. However it is disguised, wrapped and presented with some side quests that you have to do in order to get to the main storyline.

 

I do for one completely agree with you in saying that there's way to much side content compared to the main plot. If an area as fx. The Hinterlands had, had 4 or more main story quests in them, i think that the size of the area might have been justified. Sadly as i hear it, most people burn out before they even get out of The Hinterlands. Which is really sad, since the game doesn't really properly start before after The Hinterlands.

 

However though, i don't think that the main story line was bad, and it did have one of the best cliff hanger endings I've ever seen. I just think that a lot of things could have been elaborated on with more quests or cut scenes, that would have put some of the things that you normally have to read the book for, into perspective.


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#17
Sidney

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Well, let's be honest, there's probably more like 10 hours of main storyline. However it is disguised, wrapped and presented with some side quests that you have to do in order to get to the main storyline.
 
I do for one completely agree with you in saying that there's way to much side content compared to the main plot. If an area as fx. The Hinterlands had, had 4 or more main story quests in them, i think that the size of the area might have been justified. Sadly as i hear it, most people burn out before they even get out of The Hinterlands. Which is really sad, since the game doesn't really properly start before after The Hinterlands.
 
However though, i don't think that the main story line was bad, and it did have one of the best cliff hanger endings I've ever seen. I just think that a lot of things could have been elaborated on with more quests or cut scenes, that would have put some of the things that you normally have to read the book for, into perspective.


A lot of this is how it was setup. The actual "main storyline" part of even Orzammar for example is pretty short. It is wrapped into a much bigger set of grinding trash mob fights. The thing is while the trash mob killing in most areas of DAI feels like pointless murder the trash mob killing, and fetch type quests like Topsiders Honor, feel acceptable because all of that is on the way to the main quest "dungeon" so it feels like stuff you have to do to get to the stuff you need to do.
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#18
Cute Nug

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Telling are the annoying pointless re-spawning filler monsters in these unnecessary open zones. Good game that could have been better if the story wasn't diluted with unnecessary filler. Some zones and much of the unimportant quests should have been better identified in game as optional filler. Might have been a more interesting if a take or leave it option allowed you to have one of your companions take a squad of soldiers to deal with filler zones and quests.

 

 Why all the pointless trash mobs in DA2 and re-spawning trash mobs in DAI? Is it just a hack and burn dungeon crawl game or are they trying to tell a story? Does every mage, templar, qunari, bear, fuzzy bunny you meet have to pointlessly attack you and re-spawn two seconds later pointlessly? 


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#19
KBomb

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I'm always amazed at he crazy love TW series gets with a limited Protagonist, limited love interests, button mashing combat with darn few options then again Skyrim always get loves with their no story line, craptastic FPS combat, pathetic voice acting and aaoverly repetitive exploration and reused dungeons so I suspect a lot of this is a anything but this straw man.

DAI attempted to reverse the limits and gripes abut DA2 but they didn't really stick that landing. I'm not a fan of the open worlds at all, hate the TES games for it. The most damaging part of DAI was the decision to abstract the main quest out of the exploration. You compare KOTOR or DAO with DAI and the reason the story feels more connected is that the things you need to do to move forward are actually part of the areas you are in. In DAI they aren't part of the exploration in most cases so one is exploring for the sake basically of grinding away. There is really for example no reason to be in EDL or the Hissing Wastes in terms of the overall story. Now a lot of this is cosmetic. In DAO the Breciallian Forest has no purpose, the temple does, and that is a whole other map just like the story quests in DAI are a whole other map but the appearance of connectivity matters in this case in terms of the experience. It is sort of the same problem I had with ME1 where the story quests were their own standalone beasts and all the UCWs are just time sucking XP grabs.

TW3 has strategy for it's combat-- you just have to utilize it. DAI is strategic during battle, TW3 is strategic beforebattle. You can button press through DAI too, if you so choose to. Limited love interests? I wouldn't say that. Depends on what you consider a true LI. There are basically three you can have an intimacy with and there are quite a few to have flings with. Is it like the DA series where one can romance everyone and their hound? No, but the relationships between Triss and Yenn are fun as well as deep and emotional and CDPR is now working to make them even more content filled and fleshed out.

Combat options aren't limited either. You get five "spells", a crossbow and two swords, plus alchemy is a huge part of combat such as potions, oils, bombs and decoctions as well is researching the monsters you're sent to kill. Basically, TW3 gets love because it deserves it.
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#20
Eronair

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A lot of this is how it was setup. The actual "main storyline" part of even Orzammar for example is pretty short. It is wrapped into a much bigger set of grinding trash mob fights. The thing is while the trash mob killing in most areas of DAI feels like pointless murder the trash mob killing, and fetch type quests like Topsiders Honor, feel acceptable because all of that is on the way to the main quest "dungeon" so it feels like stuff you have to do to get to the stuff you need to do.

 

Well, the Topsider quest, as you point out, also ends up giving you one hell of a blade at the end. Quite an insensitive to get going on that quest.

Besides that, i would still argue that the main story line quest in Orzimmar is (roughly) the same size as the main story line in DA:I. plus there's a lot of decisions to be made in Orzimmar, which are lacking even in the main story line of DA:I. The only real decision that jumps to mind for me, is if you want to go with the Templars or the Mages. It's just a little thin, but the main story line is engaging, and entertaining in DA:I, it just doesn't really meet up to what i would expect from a DA game.

 

Even the side quests of DA:O had some consequences for the later game. fx. Redcliff, do you kill the dwarf for the upcoming battle for Redcliff village? if you do, there are going to be some consequences when it comes to finding Sten's blade.

Besides that even, side quests were on the way in DA:O. In DA:I it's kinda like picking up a hitchhiker that has to go the opposite direction, it feels unnecessary, and inconvenient that you should trouble yourself with going the opposite way when you have a world to save, for little to no reward i might add.

 

It's not that it's an overall bad game, I'm just trying to focus on the things that (in my opinion) could have been done better. So in the future, i don't have to play a game where 70% of it feels like a chore to grind through.


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#21
Brass_Buckles

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I haven't played Witcher 3 (can't, until I upgrade my computer at some point in the not-distant future), but one positive thing I have heard is that in TW3, side quests don't feel pointless.  Most of the side quests in DAI did feel like filler, and kind of pointless.  Even the loot was usually not all that great--the best kind of loot was schematics, followed by high-tier crafting materials, then gold and salable treasures.  Had we encountered more meaningful side quest within the huge areas that aren't tied directly into the plot, I might have not minded the exploration so much.

 

Also, almost all quests were marked on the maps.  Not all of them--collections weren't, of course, and I seem to remember another "secret" quest or two that wasn't marked on the map.  Now, I like knowing which direction to go, but part of exploring should be being able to stumble across something I had no idea was there in the first place.  Markers before I even explore that part of the map take away from that.

 

And yes, there's that whole emptiness factor.  And three deserts.  Okay, I get it:  Someone likes deserts.  I don't mind them, and I can see the artistic beauty of them, but I don't see why we needed three, rather than combining the three terrain types into one big map.  It's not as if we encountered many NPCs there, and only one of them had a significant plot point tied to it.  Just because deserts are a great place to find dragons doesn't mean we need extra desert regions just to add another dragon.

 

And, yes, the grinding endless NPC enemies was also an issue--the combat often felt meaningless, except when in the middle of a main quest.  I'm not saying "do away with all combat/hostile NPCs," and certainly things should respawn.  I'd just rather these events have a bit more meaning--how that could be achieved, I'm not sure, but it likely ties into the idea that we need more populated areas and a feeling that the people might actually be threatened by our enemies.



#22
Graywolfe

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I agree with the OP for the most part. I felt the main story was a bit rushed, if I just follow the main plot the game is over in no time. The side quests for the most part were pointless. The main story should touch almost every part of the game, yeah there will be a few small areas that don't, put in just for fun or laughs like the pranks you can do with Sera. The storm coast for example, you went up there for a number of reasons including picking up 2 companions and you could take care of a few side quests along the way. However the one side quest was a serious hike to the far edge of the map and then some of the quests you could not even start until later in the game. If some people want to be able to go back to an area and grind mobs that's fine but let us finish the quests for each area while we are there. One of the things I think that hurt the over all experience was having to keep going back to some the same areas to finish them.

 

There should also, in my opinion, a few major quests that affect the over all story but are forks where you have make a choice. The mage/templar quest is a good example of this, it can change a little how the story progresses depending on choices giving you another reason to replay the game later. Kind of like in DAO when you were recruiting allies for the battle, your choices affected who would be there with you at the end.  The civil war was an option for a major alternate quest/story line but in the western approach nothing you do there really affects it. If you go to the winter palace and resolve the civil war nothing really changes anywhere.

 

As to comparing it to other games, well I like and play DA, TES, TW. I play them all because they are different and would never want them to be alike. DAO is the only one I replay several times. TW3 I don't have yet but when I get it I probably only play it twice like I did for the other 2 since I have done everything after 2 playthroughs. TES is generally once because it is so big and so long. DAI I will play at least twice probably 3 so I can do both the LIs I want and I would like to try out playing a qunarii. The only game I would really put in the same group as DA is Drakkensang which was pretty good and you get a party to work with. 



#23
Darkly Tranquil

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DAI's mix of open world sandbox and cinematic story driven gameplay feel badly detached. It very much feels like two separate projects that got mashed together at some point during development and never quite coalesced into a single whole. As a result, you get a game where you go - Story -> Open world grind box -> Story -> Open world grind box -> etc. with 80% of your time spent doing busy work in order to advance the plot the other 20%, and the two feel only tenuously connected. Now TW3 is also guilty of making you do busy work, but the story and open world elements in that game feel much more natural, integrated, and narratively consistent. DAI by comparison just feels awkward and fragmented.
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#24
Bayonet Hipshot

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I personally treat DAI like a snack once I am up to a certain level. By that I mean, once I am mid level, I play it once a while instead of frequently. The truly tragic thing is that DAI could be tremendously improved with a modding kit.

 

Can you imagine what something like Immersive Patrols, Immersive NPCs, combat overhauls, ENBs, retextures, hardcore immersion overhaul, weather overhaul, city overhaul could do to DAI ?

 

Its a shame that EA will never release a modding kit for this game. Truly a shame.


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#25
Jeniva

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I agree with OP. I kind of HAVE to do everything I can, so doing all the shards etc in every play through. It's utterly boring and draining, I don't know why I even do it! I love all the main story quests. I don't mind the back and fourth side quests. What I didn't like was the shards, the rifts, the points of interests that were all but interesting - etc. I know thats all OPTIONAL but I would have preferred more main story quests and less bulking content. 
They could have cut areas down a lot if they got rid of the collection based quests, or at least cut the collection quests so maybe there's only 3 rifts in a map and 8 shards (4 and 4).


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