66 réponses à ce sujet

[X Equestris]

BS!
Could you please be more specific about what the old-gen can't handle, which the new-gen can? Something, anything, that have never happened on xb360\ps3, but is going to happen in DAI on xb1\ps4? 
 
ps: I'm going to have nightmares from now on, about DA4\MEA forbidding me to play on my current laptop and not allowing me to buy&run their games unless I get myself an upgrade....

You remember that pre-Alpha footage involving the Keep at Crestwood? It was cut because old-gen couldn't handle everything going on at once.

[NRieh]

 

You remember that pre-Alpha footage involving the Keep at Crestwood? It was cut because old-gen couldn't handle everything going on at once.

Surely you've got a source\link for that?.. 

 

That footage did not have anything extraordinary, just a concept of quest that had never happened (probably intentionally - I doubt people'd be happy to see the real 'Adamant Choice' on the trailer, lol).Not any different from the real Haven. Crestwood, Halamshiral or any other quest.

 

No, really, there are some people who are eager to blame consoles for literally anything, both old and new, but 'the content' is hardly fitting on that list. Dialogues, quests  and number of cut-scenes are not platform-restricted, FPS, resolution and HDD size are.  

[X Equestris]

Surely you've got a source\link for that?.. 
 
That footage did not have anything extraordinary, just a concept of quest that had never happened (probably intentionally - I doubt people'd be happy to see the real 'Adamant Choice' on the trailer, lol).Not any different from the real Haven. Crestwood, Halamshiral or any other quest.
 
No, really, there are some people who are eager to blame consoles for literally anything, both old and new, but 'the content' is hardly fitting on that list. Dialogues, quests  and number of cut-scenes are not platform-restricted, FPS, resolution and HDD size are.

http://www.eurogamer...s-of-dragon-age

[Donk]

What happened to your other account, Donky?

 

Long story.

[Jewlie Ghoulie]

Apparently yes. Sucks for you guys

Except I play on ps4.

But, yes... It does suck for people who invested in the game in last gen only.

[Robert Trevelyan]

To be brutally honest, DAI should never have been made for last gen platforms. Knowing the release date (and it shifted) I made sure I upgraded to a current machine FOR Inquisition. I saved for it, and made sure I got in for the launch.

 

Making this game playable on last gen machines has pretty clearly had an impact on the game. Just go back and look at those videos from E3, Pax and Gamescom in the couple of years leading up to launch. Just observe how full of NPCs and alive the landscape seems.

 

Compare that to release. Barren landscapes with a barely a handful of NPCs to be seen. Barely any cutscenes in the game at all. A lot of the gae just feels half-finished and under populated.

 

The levels of NPCs and other the concepts mooted in development could have been possible on PS4, Xbox One and PC. But not last gen. To maintain parity with the older machines has meant to gimp the game for current gen. When you look at a title like the Witcher 3 - dozens of NPCs with ambient dialogue in ever town or settlement, cutscenes for every conversation - it's easy to see what could have been achieved with DAI. During development the two titles looked on par with each other.

 

One didn't have to accomodate older machines. One did.

 

It's a little shitty for those who bought the game on older systems, yes. I personally thing a discount on the base game should also be part of the Upgrade Plan. But really, there was a full year of the new console generation before DAI came out. That was plenty time to save for a new machine. The game mattered that much to me. That's why I saved for a console to play it on.

[NRieh]

 

Just go back and look at those videos from E3, Pax and Gamescom in the couple of years leading up to launch. Just observe how full of NPCs and alive the landscape seems.

That was a single. F*ing. Demo-zone. Made specifically for the show. Same as with most of the early pre-alpha demos, it had nothing to do with the final release. You have no proof that your 'new gen' could have handled such things well in reality, and you also have no idea what that next-gen-release-that-never happened could look like. Also, here's  a post from the GameDev about what those show demos normally are.

[Robert Trevelyan]

That was a single. F*ing. Demo-zone. Made specifically for the show. Same as with most of the early pre-alpha demos, it had nothing to do with the final release. You have no proof that your 'new gen' could have handled such things well in reality, and you also have no idea what that next-gen-release-that-never happened could look like. Also, here's  a post from the GameDev about what those show demos normally are.

 

 

There is no 'new gen'. It's current gen, now. We're two years into it.

 

But anybody with even a basic understabding of PC gaming knows this to be true. If you populate an area with more NPCs, objects, pathfinding scripts than the hardware can cope with comfortably the framerate drops dramatically. And often to unplayable degrees.

 

DAI is running in an engine designed for current gen systems. Not for 360 or Ps3. In order to have the game running comfortably on those systems things had to be dumbed down and whittled away.

 

And despite what many people may believe it's not as simple as "but if other consoles or PC can manage more stuff on screen just LET them."

 

When you're making a multiplatform game all platforms have to have relative parity. Because that way if a bug happens in one area of the game you fix it on all platforms with one fix. There isn't enough time to treat diffeent platform in totally seperate ways, unless you outsource a platform to be a Port of the game created by a seperate company. As was done with Dragon Age Origins.

 

So, yes. By developing last gen along with current gen it will have had a negative effect on the game. It will have limited how the game world was populated. The limitations of the old hardware then become limitations for the product on better hardware.

 

Just as console versions also tend to limit the standard of PC games 'out of the box'. And why modders work tirelessly to get the best out of PC games, beyond the original vanilla versions of a game.

 

 

While I agree with your sentiment, I am still glad that it was made for PS360 or I would never have been able to play until much much later.

 

 

And I'm glad you got to. It's just a shame that you're now only getting half the experience of the full game's life cycle.

[X Equestris]

That was a single. F*ing. Demo-zone. Made specifically for the show. Same as with most of the early pre-alpha demos, it had nothing to do with the final release. You have no proof that your 'new gen' could have handled such things well in reality, and you also have no idea what that next-gen-release-that-never happened could look like. Also, here's  a post from the GameDev about what those show demos normally are.

I take it you didn't read the article I posted, did you? Because if you did, you would know that there were things that last-gen just couldn't handle. And that was one of the factors behind why features like what we saw in Crestwood never made it into the final product.

Honestly, you seem to be taking things personally. Saying things like "your new gen"? Come on now.

[Robert Trevelyan]

I take it you didn't read the article I posted, did you? Because if you did, you would know that there were things that last-gen just couldn't handle. And that was one of the factors behind why features like what we saw in Crestwood never made it into the final product.

Honestly, you seem to be taking things personally. Saying things like "your new gen"? Come on now.

 

 

Yes. I mean entire game mechanics got removed. No 'Save or Sacrifice' a town. No 'Use this Keep for Trade, Stealth or Forces'. Systems which they went into quite some detail about, but if you can't get them running on older systems (due to hardware limitations) then all platforms suffer for the sake of accomodating the older platforms. Nobody wins.

[Balek-Vriege]

Just FYI the point in the article which talks about cut content is 1/2 way through, four paragraphs up from the linked PAX demo youtube video.

 

Laidlaw specifically mentions that big/epic fighting scenes weren't cut because of time/resource/budget issues, but the limitations of older gen consoles:

 

"We had to do some changes," Laidlaw admits.  "That was something where we had a good working prototype but we hit a snag due to the technical limitations on it.  Having multiple forces fighting works fine on PC but you end up in a situation where having realistic-feeling war on the older consoles is exceedingly challenging."

 

Basically large keep battles, large encounters and probably heavily populated towns and areas were cut mainly because older gen consoles couldn't keep up and Bioware was approaching DAI from platform parity perspective.

 

Edit:  Remember a lot of PC players over the last couple years were complaining already about Xbox 360 and PS3 holding back games due to their hardware limitations.  Now take an engine as mentioned, that's designed for next gen consoles that's very technically demanding, adapt the engine/game for Xbox/PS3 two years after they're replaced, all while sustaining parity among all platforms.  What you get is very pretty graphic options on next gen consoles with features and game design dating back to circa 2005 rather than next gen and technically amazing. 

 

Not sure why I'm using a smiley face there.

[Robert Trevelyan]

Just FYI the point in the article which talks about cut content is 1/2 way through, four paragraphs up from the linked PAX demo youtube video.

 

Laidlaw specifically mentions that big/epic fighting scenes weren't cut because of time/resource/budget issues, but the limitations of older gen consoles:

 

"We had to do some changes," Laidlaw admits.  "That was something where we had a good working prototype but we hit a snag due to the technical limitations on it.  Having multiple forces fighting works fine on PC but you end up in a situation where having realistic-feeling war on the older consoles is exceedingly challenging."

 

Basically large keep battles, large encounters and probably heavily populated towns and areas were cut mainly because older gen consoles couldn't keep up and Bioware was approaching DAI from platform parity perspective.

 

Edit:  Remember a lot of PC players over the last couple years were complaining already about Xbox 360 and PS3 holding back games due to their hardware limitations.  Now take an engine as mentioned, that's designed for next gen consoles that's very technically demanding, adapt the engine/game for Xbox/PS3 two years after they're replaced, all while sustaining parity among all platforms.  What you get is very pretty graphic options on next gen consoles with features and game design dating back to circa 2005 rather than next gen and technically amazing. 

 

Not sure why I'm using a smiley face there.

 

 

This. A thousand times this.

 

It's so greatly depressing that the game which Inquisition should have been was compromised by having to support systems which it never should have had to.

 

I really want to know who pressed for that. I'd imagine EA. But I could be wrong.

[AllThatJazz]

This. A thousand times this.

It's so greatly depressing that the game which Inquisition should have been was compromised by having to support systems which it never should have had to.

I really want to know who pressed for that. I'd imagine EA. But I could be wrong.

No, I think you're right. it's the publisher, not the dev, that decides the platforms. I believe the devs will have wanted current gen only, because they are computer/gaming geeks at heart and will have wanted to play with all the fancy tech afforded by new gen. But the edict came from on high that they had to make it cross gen , probably because EA's financial bods were worried about potential poor sales of new consoles, and big publishers are nothing if not a bit risk averse. Of course the worries were not only unfounded, but it's likely that sales on last gen were pretty poor, making all that time and effort spent on PS3 360 a bit of a waste. Hence (I bet) the same financial bods deciding to cut their losses now. Unfortunately the devs get to deal with the repercussions, since they're the ones on the frontline.

The leaked survey from a while ago mentioned a Qunari invasion. If Bioware is intending to show large scale warfare, and last gen prevented them from doing just that in the base game, then it's likely the reason they've dropped support now, as opposed to earlier with JoH, which was obviously capable of running on older systems. Yes, it really sucks for those who will lose out, but it also kinda sucked that DAI was a bit nerfed for everybody because of the limitations of decade old hardware. I don't really think there is an ideal way forward here, but I admit I am still excited to see what the team can do without those restraints (sorry). I do hope for some form of remuneration for those wanting to trade up their game, however.

[Darth Marlon]

bioware logic release a game to a game to last gen and most of the dlcs and leave the best one out they make great games but there moves are really stupid.

[Robert Trevelyan]

bioware logic release a game to a game to last gen and most of the dlcs and leave the best one out they make great games but there moves are really stupid.

 

 

You really do need to understand. Inquisition has been impeded badly by those last gen systems. The scale of the game had to be cut back in order to get it running on last gen. Large battles, epic scale, huge decisions, the number NPCs fleshing out the world, entire in game systems... dumbed down or dumped so that last gen players could get in on the action. Only that action was much lesser an experience because of the limits of what xbox 360 and PS3 could actually present.

 

In the meantime rival games from other companies who did not have to support old machines have made better games than Inquisition as a result of having the freedom to harness the power of current gen consoles as their only limitation. 

 

Bioware have been made to look inferior. not because of what they were trying to achieve. But because they were blocked from fulfilling what they intended.

 

They now need to really blow a few people away with the next DLC. On a scale which is on a par with current gen. Not last gen.

 

It's just a shame they didn't realise this BEFORE release.