Not indefensible at all,
The MP agents are based (and can be seen) at Skyhold, so it is perfectly reasonable that MP booty is stored there - where else would you store it?
SP only players need not be concerned, it is simply MP content stored at Skyhold.
The complaining is a bit silly in my opinion.
The game as shipped did not have content gated by MP. I dont think they ever promised they wont add new content with specific requirements.
But hey, people are complaining about BioWare fixing bugs, of course they are going to complain about new stuff.
That question clearly isn't "will the game ship this way?" though. Obviously, based on past actions, they were asking "will it ever?" and the reasonable interpretation of the answer they received was "no, it will never."
Nobody would have a problem with this if we could get this stuff from, I don't know, killing dragons in SP. Since there are a bunch there for us to kill. And we know that their remains are snapped up by inquisition agents.
Not indefensible at all,
The MP agents are based (and can be seen) at Skyhold, so it is perfectly reasonable that MP booty is stored there - where else would you store it?
SP only players need not be concerned, it is simply MP content stored at Skyhold.
The complaining is a bit silly in my opinion.
It's content solely benefiting single player that's locked behind MP participation that isn't even available to every player, years after they were rightfully excoriated for pulling this **** in Mass Effect.
The complaining is 100% justified.
Really, now. Lucky us.
This is absurd, and trying to spin this as somehow positive is absurd. I like multiplayer, and I liked ME3 MP a lot. But gating any single player content behind outside participation without offering a solely SP path within game is one of the dumbest things Bioware has ever done. It was so stupid the first time around that when they tweeted that, I quite reasonably assumed that they meant it.
You're bending over backwards to defend something that's indefensible. Some players are completely locked out of this content. Even if they wanted to try to get it, they couldn't do it without shelling out cash for a gold subscription that they might not want or need otherwise.
Wait, what?
Are you saying that you have to pay extra for MP on consoles?
Yes, I do realize that EA doesn't get the subscription money directly, but given the relationship that seems to exist between DAI and XBox One... ew.
Yeah, good luck with that cash grab. If this is the way of the future, it bodes ill for DA4. I'm not sure there are enough MP players to support DA4, no matter what incentives they offer.
Wait, what?
Are you saying that you have to pay extra for MP on consoles?
Yes. If you play on Xbox or Playstation, you have to pay $50-$60 a year (depending on platform) for a deluxe subscription to play online multiplayer.
Or you can pay by the month, I suppose, but if I have no interest in multiplayer, and primarily play RPGs, maybe that $5 a month is much better spent an another two cups of coffee. Or maybe, I just flat out can't afford it.
Oddly enough, I find people trying their best to hate on free new stuff similarly ridiculous.You're bending over backwards to defend something that's indefensible.
Really? It comes down to this?Some players are completely locked out of this content. Even if they wanted to try to get it, they couldn't do it without shelling out cash for a gold subscription that they might not want or need otherwise.
Sure, since the online MP was introduced on the original Xbox. Sony followed the suit with PlayStation 4. Both Sony and Microsoft offer free games and additional discounts to subscruibers.Wait, what?
Are you saying that you have to pay extra for MP on consoles?
Yes. If you play on Xbox or Playstation, you have to pay $50-$60 a year (depending on platform) for a deluxe subscription to play online multiplayer.
Or you can pay by the month, I suppose, but if I have no interest in multiplayer, and primarily play RPGs, maybe that $5 a month is much better spent an another two cups of coffee. Or maybe, I just flat out can't afford it.
Yeah, I hear you. That doesn't sound fair at all. Since they already have to pay internet subscription fees, those additional charges sound like "Reach for the sky, punk!"
Oddly enough, I find people trying their best to hate on free new stuff similarly ridiculous.
Really? It comes down to this?
Sure, since the online MP was introduced on the original Xbox. Sony followed the suit with PlayStation 4. Both Sony and Microsoft offer free games and additional discounts to subscruibers.
This is a 100% valid concern. I don't know about you, but I'm not in the habit of pissing away money on something that doesn't benefit me in the slightest. Again, a couple extra cups of coffee offer me more value than a PS+ subscription, personally. Some people might legitimately be unable to afford it. In either case, this is something they shouldn't have done after the ME3 disaster. So we're hating on them for pulling a dick move that they seem to have explicitly stated they would not pull.
Here's my question - would you have an issue with them offering a SP path to this content *in addition* to the MP path? If not... then it doesn't affect you, so why spend so many words defending Bioware here, when it's abundantly clear that a lot of players are so pissed off?
Modifié par TommyServo, 13 juillet 2015 - 09:20 .
Thats up to anyone.This is a 100% valid concern. I don't know about you, but I'm not in the habit of pissing away money on something that doesn't benefit me in the slightest. Again, a couple extra cups of coffee offer me more value than a PS+ subscription, personally. Some people might legitimately be unable to afford it.
I like the concept of rewarding MP progression with cosmetic items, but I dont see myself posting as many complaints like you guys, if BioWare were to abandon it.Here's my question - would you have an issue with them offering a SP path to this content *in addition to the MP path? If not... then it doesn't affect you, so why spend so many words defending Bioware here, when it's abundantly clear that a lot of players are so pissed off?
I love how there is an actual War Table mission after you kill your first High Dragon in SP where you can display it as a trophy
That was the first thing I thought of when I saw the pic for this set. My very first playthrough, I ran all over trying to find that thing. lol
I ended up head-canoning that I made it my throne instead. 
I've been to the MP forum. The language and the use of terms like "scrub" and heated debates about who deserves to be on the leaderboards all lead me to believe that the MP experience would be closer to my Diablo 3 experience than my BG2 LAN parties. I'm not a competitive person. My rule about that will always be "Don't go there."
In defense of MP, the folks you see in the DAIMP forum are an incredibly small part of the overall population. Just like any of us that come to these forums are a fraction of the overall Dragon Age or Mass Effect fanbases.
Most of the folks talking about "scrubs" or fighting about the leaderboard are an even smaller minority of the DAIMP forum. Some of them are just joking around, but an outsider would miss the inside jokes of that subcommunity. Some of those inside jokes even come over from old friends from the ME3MP forum, so most of us over there recognize them for what they are immediately. Some of them are probably serious, but I can only honestly think of maybe 2-3 people over there who honestly care and are butts about the leaderboards.
A lot of folks over there are actually helpful. And the vast majority of players I have run into on DAIMP on PS4 are silent or not mic'd up... and those who have been, have been fine and not raging children. For the most part, aside from a few questionable apples, we recognize it's a non-competitive PvE game.
And to be perfectly honest, I could say the same thing about the SP forums. Countless threads of various rage here and there with abusive posters in them. And Heaven forbid you express your personal opinion on some of those topics, lest you get pounced on. To suggest that the DAIMP forum is any worse than some of the SP forums is turning a blind eye at best.
I would please ask you to not judge an entire game community - or even an entire subforum - based on a few vocal individuals. By the way - did you miss all the MP folks who came into the SP Dragon Props threads and offered to help carry people through a match to unlock the props for them?
Thats up to anyone.
I picture that people who dont want to subscribe either accept some limitations or game on PC as the subscription services are integral part of the console experience these days.
I like the concept of rewarding MP progression with cosmetic items, but I dont see myself posting as many complaints like you guys, if BioWare were to abandon it.
Speaking of which, I see the rather few people complaining.
Nope. This is something they flat out said they wouldn't do, and no amount of fanciful and unlikely spin can change this.
Subscription services are still primarily for those who want to game online. They're not necessary for single player games. They shouldn't be.
And again - they did this with ME3 and it exploded on them, and they capitulated. They said they wouldn't do it again. They reneged on that. I don't like them blocking single player content behind MP participation, and I'm not alone. All they need to do is make it drop from the damn dragons in the game.
Oddly enough, I find people trying their best to hate on free new stuff similarly ridiculous.
1. Its not free.
2. Whilst some complaints are certainly only made for spurious reasons the complaints in this case are 100% clearly justified, you've been making up reasons to try and invalidate the complaints in this case and have been unable to so all you are doing is prolonging the debate.
1. How much does it cost?1. Its not free.
2. Whilst some complaints are certainly only made for spurious reasons the complaints in this case are 100% clearly justified, you've been making up reasons to try and invalidate the complaints in this case and have been unable to so all you are doing is prolonging the debate.
Would you prefer the content in question would not exist rather than being available to anyone who can be bothered to play some MP?I don't like them blocking single player content behind MP participation, and I'm not alone. All they need to do is make it drop from the damn dragons in the game.
1. How much does it cost?2. Clearly not, there would not be any debate otherwise ... then again calling this thread debate is a stretch. Would you prefer the content in question would not exist rather than being available to anyone who can be bothered to play some MP?
Thats why we cant have nice things.Sure, because at least they'd be demonstrating the ability to learn from their worst mistakes.
Their word? send the quotes to Iakus, he would be interested.Ideally, though, they'd keep their word and just provide a SP path to get it too. It's not that hard, dude.
@DragonRacer: Thanks for the reply. I appreciate that you seem to be posting from a genuine desire to help, but it doesn't address the real issue. I prefer SP games.
The offer to carry SP players through MP is a kind one, but that isn't really a solution in this circumstance. If I were interested in putting in a sincere effort at MP, I would certainly appreciate having a more experienced player as a guide and coach. It isn't intuitive, and I really, really miss the pause button. But I don't want someone to carry me. I've achieved what I have on my own, and I wouldn't want to burden a team with my fumbling. It isn't fair to the player, to the coach, or to anyone else on the team. I would want to pull my own weight. I hear they have a kind of tutorial level and one day, I may give that a try.
But the thing is, I like SP games. I have played BG multiplayer and SP (I preferred SP), BG2 MP and SP (I preferred SP), Diablo 2 SP and rarely MP (my husband is an unrepentant loot vacuum), Diablo 3 SP and rarely MP (not a pleasant experience at all), and even WOW for a little while, and I've come to the conclusion that raids just aren't my thing. As I stated earlier, I hate joining a game, zooming through the level to the boss while skipping everything else, and then zooming out. If DAMP isn't like that, I might give it a try, but if I do, it won't be because they offered me a SP prize for doing it.
I realize that MP players paid just as much for their games as I did for mine, but I never wanted any MP content, and I resented it deeply. They promised that MP content wouldn't affect the SP experience, and I believed them. I know, different teams. But based on the criticisms the SP side has received about shallow, MMO-style content, can we really know that the SP side hasn't suffered? And now, directly and blatantly gating SP content behind MP...
I worry that the days of story-rich SP games are numbered.
It's content solely benefiting single player that's locked behind MP participation that isn't even available to every player, years after they were rightfully excoriated for pulling this **** in Mass Effect.
The complaining is 100% justified.
Nope, I understand that's your view, but no, still unconvinced.
If there is a 'trophy' from multiplayer missions, where are people supposed to put it exactly, hmmm?
It would have to be at Skyhold, there isn't anywhere else.
Be thankful the multiplayer agents aren't constantly raving it up in the tavern (or complaining about the ham).
BioWare could have integrated the agents much more fully,
just shows what restraint they have exercised so as to not upset unreasonable 'SP only' players.
@DragonRacer: Thanks for the reply. I appreciate that you seem to be posting from a genuine desire to help, but it doesn't address the real issue. I prefer SP games.
The offer to carry SP players through MP is a kind one, but that isn't really a solution in this circumstance. If I were interested in putting in a sincere effort at MP, I would certainly appreciate having a more experienced player as a guide and coach. It isn't intuitive, and I really, really miss the pause button. But I don't want someone to carry me. I've achieved what I have on my own, and I wouldn't want to burden a team with my fumbling. It isn't fair to the player, to the coach, or to anyone else on the team. I would want to pull my own weight. I hear they have a kind of tutorial level and one day, I may give that a try.
But the thing is, I like SP games. I have played BG multiplayer and SP (I preferred SP), BG2 MP and SP (I preferred SP), Diablo 2 SP and rarely MP (my husband is an unrepentant loot vacuum), Diablo 3 SP and rarely MP (not a pleasant experience at all), and even WOW for a little while, and I've come to the conclusion that raids just aren't my thing. As I stated earlier, I hate joining a game, zooming through the level to the boss while skipping everything else, and then zooming out. If DAMP isn't like that, I might give it a try, but if I do, it won't be because they offered me a SP prize for doing it.
I realize that MP players paid just as much for their games as I did for mine, but I never wanted any MP content, and I resented it deeply. They promised that MP content wouldn't affect the SP experience, and I believed them. I know, different teams. But based on the criticisms the SP side has received about shallow, MMO-style content, can we really know that the SP side hasn't suffered? And now, directly and blatantly gating SP content behind MP...
I worry that the days of story-rich SP games are numbered.
Nope, I understand that's your view, but no, still unconvinced.
If there is a 'trophy' from multiplayer missions, where are people supposed to put it exactly, hmmm?
Not in the SP game, that's for sure.
It is written in present tense and does not mention "future content". My English is not perfect, but it sounds like it pretty much only covers content existing at the time.
*Laughs his butt off at the Clintonesque response* That is EXACTLY the logic Clinton used with the "definition of is is" response. Yes, there was an affair, but as he was asked if there is a relationship, he was legally able to answer no, because was = past and is = present.
I have too much respect for Bioware to think they would stoop to that level of legalistic doublespeak, even if I am ticked about not being able to get the content without MP.
Their word? send the quotes to Iakus, he would be interested.
That's okay, I've already posted four.
None of which was really denying the possibility thanks to the language used.That's okay, I've already posted four.
Is the concept, that someone (including you) could unlock trophy in MP and view it in SP that revolting to you?Not in the SP game, that's for sure.
Nope, I understand that's your view, but no, still unconvinced.
If there is a 'trophy' from multiplayer missions, where are people supposed to put it exactly, hmmm?
Do you have an avatar or portrait? You could gain a new one or a special one on achieving the trophy. Custom outfits, unique loot.
None of which was really denying the possibility thanks to the language used.
No, it was pretty clear No single player content hidden behind multiplayer. You have to be a serious politician to wriggle out of those statements.
Is the concept, that someone (including you) could unlock trophy in MP and view it in SP that revolting to you?
Yes. Especially after being promised several times the modes would be totally separate.
Edit: In fact, if I had known last summer that this kind of cr@p was going to be pulled, I may not have bought the game at all.
Nope, I understand that's your view, but no, still unconvinced.
If there is a 'trophy' from multiplayer missions, where are people supposed to put it exactly, hmmm?
It would have to be at Skyhold, there isn't anywhere else.
Be thankful the multiplayer agents aren't constantly raving it up in the tavern (or complaining about the ham).
BioWare could have integrated the agents much more fully,
just shows what restraint they have exercised so as to not upset unreasonable 'SP only' players.
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