31 réponses à ce sujet

[BiggyDX]

This to me was the most lackluster - and/or undeveloped - part of the series. It lacked the tactility or versatility of Dragon Age, and I found myself never really bothering to use my squadmates because the game was largely easy to play and didn't call for it. I'm hoping with the new hardware and framework, we can see squadmates utilized more effectively; in terms of what they specialize in. Positioning a sniper at higher elevations, having stealth teammates sneaking up on enemies, having a tank basically draw most of the enemy aggro. There's a lot of potential to be had, which can also become a very big letdown if they don't decide to capitalize on it.

 

What do you guys think? Were you fine with the squad-based mechanics as-is in the trilogy, or do you think they need some sort of change?

[AlexiaRevan]

DAI had tactic and I find it annoying . 

 

I can do tactic in a strategy game where the game give you your turn . Like say in x-com . 

 

But real time fighting ? I just suck at pausing , positioning...attacking..throwing spell..doesnt feel right . 

 

I'm for an upgrade in the squad power though . Would be nice if they had a full arsenal too . 

[AlanC9]

Aggro? Eww.

[Former_Fiend]

I'd like to see things expanded beyond three people blasting their ways down hallways of waist-high cover. Wider areas of engagement so we can pick our approach, actual use of sniping perches, the ability to set up ambushes and actual use of stealth beyond a crappy invisibility cloak. That kind of thing.

[AlexiaRevan]

I'd like to see things expanded beyond three people blasting their ways down hallways of waist-high cover. Wider areas of engagement so we can pick our approach, actual use of sniping perches, the ability to set up ambushes and actual use of stealth beyond a crappy invisibility cloak. That kind of thing.

Set bombs and actually see monster get blown..instead of them rushing you like you are justin bieber 

[The Hierophant]

Being able to manually control our squadmates would be nice.

[Former_Fiend]

Would also eliminate the "PC dies, game over" problem.

 

Though I imagine they kept that in the later ME games so no would could say that Shepard wasn't the true hero by controlling another squadie most of the time and letting Shepard drop early in combat while finishing the fight with someone else.

[AresKeith]

Being able to manually control our squadmates would be nice.

 

Tbh I kinda doubt ME will let us control squadmates like DA

[MrFob]

I'd vote against direct control of our squad mates. The reason is that I think it diminishes my identification with the protagonist.

 

In DA, I never felt like I am the warden or Hawke or the Inquisitor. Rather I was a 3rd party observer or director, some kind of bodiless entity that hovered over the battlefield and directed the proceedings. In every fight, I cease to be the protagonist and just become the player of the game because I effectively have a flycam and can move freely, look and act independently.

 

In Mass Effect on the other hand, I was Shepard. As a player, I never leave this perspective (with the exception of the Joker section in ME2 and some intro and ending cinematics). Throughout the game I am Shepard and that also goes for the combat. As leader of the team, I can give orders to my guys but if I can't get Shepard in a position where s/he can see and know what's going on, I can't effectively control my team either. Battlefield awareness of the team leader becomes an issue that is not necessarily given in games like Dragon Age.

 

This dependency helps my immersion in the game because I can fully submerge myself in the role of the protagonist. You may argue that it's just a gameplay mechanic but since combat makes up a huge chunk of game time, I think that this slight difference is significant and I definitely prefer Mass Effect's control scheme to that of other RPGs, like Dragon Age.

[DaemionMoadrin]

The comparison with DA:I doesn't work. Mass Effect isn't a game that allows you to control your squad, you only control your own character.

[Ahriman]

Aggro? In shooter? Really? I thought it's already bad enough in fantasy setting.

 

DAI had tactic and I find it annoying . 

Did it? I guess I missed it.

[(Disgusted noise.)]

I didn't have a problem with it and I made use of my squadmates' powers a lot through out the game. But I usually avoid firing a gun if I can, so I have to rely on squadmates a lot.

[PhroXenGold]

Personally, I'd rather they kept us as only being able to directly control the PC. That said, I would like some more control over the teammate - ideally something akin to the tactics system in pre-Inquisition Dragon Age. Being to set up your companions so they would, lets say, use warp on enemies affected by a singularity without you having to directly command them each time would be great.

 

Aggro though is retarded in any game, possibly barring MMOs (but even then, I'm sure there are better ways).

[Celtic Latino]

The only thing I didn't like was that Shepard had to do everything while your squadmates were only useful for their powers (rarely did they ever seem to make a dent in the enemies). I'd like to see squadmates play their class as much as the Pathfinder does. 

 

If my Pathfinder is, let's say an Engineer and I'm running with a soldier and adept squadmate I want to be on the sidelines debilitating and hacking my enemies. The soldier should be the one running in and making the kills, not just standing there taking damage. The adept should detonate combos without my input, such as if I use Cyro Blast he/she should use Warp or another powerful tool to shatter them. 

 

If my Pathfinder is a Adept and I'm running with an Infiltrator and Engineer, the Engineer should start disabling where as the Infiltrator should pick off enemies while I'm running crowd control. Those guns aren't there to look pretty. 

 

This was one of the main good things about DA2 (and Origins) combat, you could set them up to act in a role suitable for their class and the game tailors their actions based on their skills/abilities, with as much or as little input as you want to put. 

[Golden_Persona]

I'm very torn on this. On one hand this would allow people to play as other races outside of multiplayer (and I'm seriously against having our PC be a choosable race for story focus reasons) but on the other hand I agree that in DA games your PC becomes just another party member because you can control everyone... unless you choose not to like me. I've never personally felt un-immersed because I've never NOT played as my PC in DA unless I was testing out classes, so I've never felt like I wasn't my character. Most of the time I forget its a feature so I'm not sure that argument works. It's a case of more optional features.

 

However, that would mean they would have to design the gameplay around it. I get around it in DA for being a filthy casual in those games, but in ME I can't see myself ever wanting to do that. They would have to implement a tactical cam that would take away the focus of action in my action RPG, even on insanity. On the flipside, in the original ME trilogy it never made sense since Shepard was the squad leader giving commands. Having an overhead view and controlling allies on a flycam of sorts would definitely have taken away focus from Shepard being the leader... but the new PC is described as being trained, but not experienced. Does he command his unit from the beginning, or is he on equal footing from his squad. In that case it would make more sense for this trilogy to have the option.

 

On the flipside again I don't want ME to turn into DA. They can't just keep ripping features from both games until they really are ME in medieval times, or DA in space. I'm all for better AI and more customizable options for the characters though. Perhaps missions would have side objectives where depending on the class of your squadmates you could send them to complete them, weaking your own combat team but getting extra rewards. If there are base camps where you give out missions as well you could get the option to send a squaddie for increased success rate but losing them for the duration of the next mission. I would also like to see squad selection be important once again. ME2 handled that beautifully thanks to its rock-paper-scissors style combat, ME1 handled it well with encryption for hacking containers and the like. ME3...your entire squad decimates everything regardless and overload is a master of all trades in that game.

[Torgette]

I like the idea of preset automated strategies that you call out and your squadmates simply execute, simple stuff like "flank" or "retreat" or "distract" or "defend" or etc.

[fraggle]

The adept should detonate combos without my input, such as if I use Cyro Blast he/she should use Warp or another powerful tool to shatter them.

 

That's the last thing I would want personally. A lot of fun for me during combat is that I am in control of everything, meaning I can choose exactly when my squadmates detonate.

[Wulfram]

I'm not sure about full party control, I don't think it's what the game is about.

It'd be nice to be able to set up "Tactics" like that they had in DA2 and DA:O. Like

If Enemy is Lifted, then Throw
If Enemy has Shields then Overload
If Enemy Attacking Protagonist then Concussive Shot

I also think having a more convenient way to control squadmate positioning would be nice. Pointing vaguely at some cover and hoping they won't interpret this as "stand in the open just in front of the cover" is not good. And combat environments could perhaps be designed better to encourage use of crossfire and so forth.

[aoibhealfae]

The first time I play Mass Effect... I was begging for customizable squad tactics. The ME1's squad AI was pathetic... it only got slightly better in ME2.

 

yeah.. I know these games were meant for console players... but was it too much to have presets tactics?

[timebean]

I would LOVE to have tactics in this game that could be set for each character.  It allows you to customize your party more fully and have a hand in the combat mechanics WITHOUT having to be the "floating god" controller in the actual battle. That is something I loved about DAO.  I played my warden, and my team was set up to do massive damage when they fought with me. It also gave them a little personality in the fighting (like Sten would ALWAYS charge the biggest enemy on the field and Morrigan would cast horror on any critter that messed with me).

 

Sadly, tactics disappeared in DAI completely, and gameplay suffered (imho).  In ME, where we have never been able to set tactics, I doubt they will add that mechanic in.  It seems like the newer games tend to dumb down combat rather than expand on it.  If they have it in there, i will be pleasantly surprised.  But I am not holding my breath for it.

[PhroXenGold]

That's the last thing I would want personally. A lot of fun for me during combat is that I am in control of everything, meaning I can choose exactly when my squadmates detonate.

 

I certainly wouldn't want something like that to be obligatory. But I'd love an option to have me set up my teammates to automatically detonate combos and similar. (although, on another note, I really hope they tone down the combo thing. Power based classes in ME3 just became mindlessly combo spamming instead of the much more interesting system in ME2 where you actually had to put a small amount of thought into what abilities you're using) 

[DaemionMoadrin]

The first time I play Mass Effect... I was begging for customizable squad tactics. The ME1's squad AI was pathetic... it only got slightly better in ME2.

 

yeah.. I know these games were meant for console players... but was it too much to have presets tactics?

 

Meant for console players and work so much better on PC. ^^

 

Btw... the AI might have pathetic tactics and zero survival instinct, but they have 100% accuracy. Give them a weapon that's only accurate at close range and they'll still manage to hit the target on the other side of the map with it. ^^

[AlanC9]

As long as they don't end up shooting into a pillar between themselves and the enemy, though I think that was only a ME1 problem.

[Sartoz]

The only thing I didn't like was that Shepard had to do everything while your squadmates were only useful for their powers (rarely did they ever seem to make a dent in the enemies). I'd like to see squadmates play their class as much as the Pathfinder does. 

 

If my Pathfinder is, let's say an Engineer and I'm running with a soldier and adept squadmate I want to be on the sidelines debilitating and hacking my enemies. The soldier should be the one running in and making the kills, not just standing there taking damage. The adept should detonate combos without my input, such as if I use Cyro Blast he/she should use Warp or another powerful tool to shatter them. 

 

If my Pathfinder is a Adept and I'm running with an Infiltrator and Engineer, the Engineer should start disabling where as the Infiltrator should pick off enemies while I'm running crowd control. Those guns aren't there to look pretty. 

 

This was one of the main good things about DA2 (and Origins) combat, you could set them up to act in a role suitable for their class and the game tailors their actions based on their skills/abilities, with as much or as little input as you want to put. 

 

                                                                                             <<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>

 

Good points.

Bio, however, can't  program a proper AI even if you give them step-by-step instructions. Just look at DAI vs DAO and DA2.

[Amplitudelol]

This to me was the most lackluster - and/or undeveloped - part of the series. It lacked the tactility or versatility of Dragon Age, and I found myself never really bothering to use my squadmates because the game was largely easy to play and didn't call for it. I'm hoping with the new hardware and framework, we can see squadmates utilized more effectively; in terms of what they specialize in. Positioning a sniper at higher elevations, having stealth teammates sneaking up on enemies, having a tank basically draw most of the enemy aggro. There's a lot of potential to be had, which can also become a very big letdown if they don't decide to capitalize on it.

 

What do you guys think? Were you fine with the squad-based mechanics as-is in the trilogy, or do you think they need some sort of change?

 

Complex tactics are disappearing even from Dragon Age, doubtful they implement additional squad based tactical gameplay more than ME already has. Did you see the trailer? Im sure you dont have to do anything with your squad unless you are playing on highest difficulty. Expect cool jetpack jumps and such instead. Im not saying thats a bad thing.