147 réponses à ce sujet

[London]

Just posting a link to an article posts a couple hours ago on IGN. I think this was an interesting read.

I don't agree with everything he said - but he makes a lot of good points on the state of the industry when it comes to diverse representation in gaming. I do think BioWare is the industry leader in this regard and one of the reasons I love them as a developer.

http://www.ign.com/a...mpaign=Blogroll

[Andraste_Reborn]

Thanks for the link!

 

(Warning to anyone tempted to read them: the comments are a perfect illustration of why characters like Dorian appearing in video games is still a big freaking deal.)

[London]

I completely agree! At first I was like - "Wow! 3000 comments!"

Then I saw that 90% of them made me embarrassed to be a gamer

Also Kudos to IGN for following this issue - they have to know what their posters are like.

[daveliam]

Good article, but nothing groundbreaking.  It's all stuff he's said about Dorian before.  The comments make me sad.  I only got through about 20 of them before I had to close out the window. 

[leadintea]

Ugh... I'm very disappointed that Dorian, of all people, is the face of gay representation in videogames. Of course, it's understandable since there aren't a lot of gay guys in videogames, but still, Dorian? Gross.

 

One thing, though, that I agree with Gaider about is how there are a lot more media involving lesbians than gay guys. I mean, I know lesbians are more accepted socially than gay guys, but I really wish we got more games and shows that have us in them without it necessarily being sexual in nature. I mean, where's our Last of Us, Life is Strange, Gone Home, Yoru no Nai Kuni, or Steven Universe? I don't mean to knock down lesbians, and I really like the fact that they're getting more representation, but I really want a game about gay guys that's not just some gay app for getting off and more about the romance and relationship.

[BabyPuncher]

It really should be obvious why there's significant differences between the depiction of male/male and female/female romances in fiction.

[Legion of 1337]

Write a better story in the next game you do, then we'll talk about what sexual orientation the characters happen to have David.

 

Then again, I've never seen a gaming site actually point out how flawed DA:I's story is, so I guess the automatic assumption they make is "Story is good, no question, no dissent, so we'll talk about other things".

 

Gaider should just admit Dorian was put in there to be gay. That's the whole point - if it wasn't, his sexuality would be as much a deal as Sera's - ie, you don't really think about Sera being lesbian, you think of her being the strange-talking prankster/childish elf. If Dorian's purpose wasn't to be the gay guy, then everyone would mostly remember Dorian for being that smartass, self-absorbed Tevinter rebel with a heart of gold. But we don't, we remember him for being gay.

[Cobra's_back]

"“What constitutes a gay stereotype is a difficult subject,” Gaider muses. "

 

I agree with this statement completely. I'm not sure there is a stereotype. Dorian is beautiful and I love playing a big sister. As for stereotypes, Dorian reminds me of a gay bodybuilder, I knew in college who just so happen to be Italian. 

 

I didn't think he was too much. I saw beautiful inside and out with the freedom to express himself freely. Culturally Italians are more touchy and openly warm than stiff British culture. Not that there is anything wrong with that hands off approach.

 

Italians like to hug. British tend to shake hands more. 

[WildOrchid]

Thanks for the link!

 

(Warning to anyone tempted to read them: the comments are a perfect illustration of why characters like Dorian appearing in video games is still a big freaking deal.)

 

So many idiots in the comments....

[WildOrchid]

One thing, though, that I agree with Gaider about is how there are a lot more media involving lesbians than gay guys. I mean, I know lesbians are more accepted socially than gay guys, but I really wish we got more games and shows that have us in them without it necessarily being sexual in nature. I mean, where's our Last of Us, Life is Strange, Gone Home, Yoru no Nai Kuni, or Steven Universe? I don't mean to knock down lesbians, and I really like the fact that they're getting more representation, but I really want a game about gay guys that's not just some gay app for getting off and more about the romance and relationship.

 

Lesbians are accepted socially due to that most people don't take them seriously and throw the "it's a phase, girls do that a lot" ****. Sad but true.

But yes, agreed to everything you said.

[Cobra's_back]

Ugh... I'm very disappointed that Dorian, of all people, is the face of gay representation in videogames. Of course, it's understandable since there aren't a lot of gay guys in videogames, but still, Dorian? Gross.

 

One thing, though, that I agree with Gaider about is how there are a lot more media involving lesbians than gay guys. I mean, I know lesbians are more accepted socially than gay guys, but I really wish we got more games and shows that have us in them without it necessarily being sexual in nature. I mean, where's our Last of Us, Life is Strange, Gone Home, Yoru no Nai Kuni, or Steven Universe? I don't mean to knock down lesbians, and I really like the fact that they're getting more representation, but I really want a game about gay guys that's not just some gay app for getting off and more about the romance and relationship.

 

Trying to be open minded here because I'm not gay, but your comment "I know lesbians are more accepted socially ", WHY?

 

Do you know because I really don't.

 

What I have seen is youtube videos of guys playing girls to bed Sera. I really don't think that is acceptance. It's more like someone's fantasy, and not in a respectful way. Sera is also made to be somewhat simpleminded. She is not smart or cunning and seems to lose control emotionally,i.e, when she beat the guy to death.

 

So are males really responding to a female who can't always control their emotions?

 

Just a probing question because I really don't know. I confess my world is limited to the world of Engineering. I don't catch many things, and I'm not in the comfort zone with someone who loses it.

[Jaison1986]

Trying to be open minded here because I'm not gay, but your comment "I know lesbians are more accepted socially ", WHY?

 

Do you know because I really don't.

 

What I have seen is youtube videos of guys playing girls to bed Sera. I really don't think that is acceptance. It's more like someone's fantasy, and not in a respectful way. Sera is also made to be somewhat simpleminded. She is not smart or cunning and seems to lose control emotionally,i.e, when she beat the guy to death.

 

So are males really responding to a female who can't always control their emotions?

 

Just a probing question because I really don't know. I confess my world is limited to the world of Engineering. I don't catch many things, and I'm not in the comfort zone with someone who loses it.

 

I actually have issues with that. You know, time and again, many woman rage and yell in the internet about gay people and being respectful. Even thought most of them are actually straight, and they still try to talk in these people's place as if they understand homosexuals better then they understand themselves. And you know what I think? They don't really respect homosexuals. They fetishize them, treat homosexualism like an perverse fantasy, like an fangirl reading those manga they call yaoi. To them it's more of an play rather then a part of their lives.

[Dieb]

Yadda, yadda, I read too many big words online, elaborate pseudo-theory illustrating how I'm really about writing quality and definitely not effectively saying "Boo-hoo, my unshakable heterosexuality is intimidated by a funny gay guy.", 15 page discussion, mod returns to office from summer vacation, /thread.

 

With that out of the way...

 

Go BioWare! I like that they are taking a zero-intolerance-tolerance stand without apologetic half-assery. If Dorian and Sera are what potentially stereotypical gay characters are like, I don't know what the tip-toeing around the issue for some is all about.

 

If Dorian's purpose wasn't to be the gay guy, then everyone would mostly remember Dorian for being that smartass, self-absorbed Tevinter rebel with a heart of gold. But we don't, we remember him for being gay.

 

I don't.

 

Not that I cared in her case either, but if you wanna count things up, actually Sera constantly talks about women in a sexual way; whereas Dorian hardly ever mentions his sexuality in comparison; if you don't have a steady group consisting of him & Iron Bull. Even his quest was about his father trying to force him to become his heir, not forbidding him to be gay. The "reproduction" issue is just a fragment of the things Dorian refuses to do. I believe this common misconception is similar to if I asked you to point out the one black guy in a crowd of white guys - you isolate what's the most alien to you. It's just a normal, natural thing to do.

 

So yeah, for me he really is the smartass, self-absorbed Tevinter rebel with a heart of gold.

[BabyPuncher]

Trying to be open minded here because I'm not gay, but your comment "I know lesbians are more accepted socially ", WHY?

 

Do you know because I really don't.

 

The core of it is that masculinity and male sexuality is perceived as active and femininity and female sexuality is perceived as passive.

 

Because of that, gay male relationships are a provacation in a manner that lesbian relationships are not.

[WildOrchid]

Uh oh.....

[Dieb]

The core of it is that masculinity and male sexuality is perceived as active and femininity and female sexuality is perceived as passive.

 

Because of that, gay male relationships are a provacation in a manner that lesbian relationships are not.

 

Or, it is because it's two chicks making out, with the straight male recipient in front of the TV suddenly becoming very socially progressive.

 

I'm afraid there's no reasonable bull****ing around this blatantly obvious factoid, kid.

[Majestic Jazz]

Or, it is because it's two chicks making out, with the straight male recipient in front of the TV suddenly becoming very socially progressive.

 

I'm afraid there's no reasonable bull****ing around this blatantly obvious factoid, kid.

 

 

Sorry if this video offends anybody:

 

[X Equestris]

If Dorian's purpose wasn't to be the gay guy, then everyone would mostly remember Dorian for being that smartass, self-absorbed Tevinter rebel with a heart of gold. But we don't, we remember him for being gay.

I don't. To me, he's memorable for the rest of his character.

Dorian's sexuality barely even comes up outside of his personal quest. And even there the main issue was that he wasn't willing to play along with Tevinter's social mores. Not that he was gay by itself. You might have ended up with a similar story if he had been straight and refused to go along with an arranged marriage.

[Cobra's_back]

I actually have issues with that. You know, time and again, many woman rage and yell in the internet about gay people and being respectful. Even thought most of them are actually straight, and they still try to talk in these people's place as if they understand homosexuals better then they understand themselves. And you know what I think? They don't really respect homosexuals. They fetishize them, treat homosexualism like an perverse fantasy, like an fangirl reading those manga they call yaoi. To them it's more of an play rather then a part of their lives.

 

I'm sorry they do that. My uncle was gay and faithful to his partner for over 25 years. I love him dearly. What I know is that you are born that way. It has been this way for a percentage of the pop since the beginning of time. I wish people would turn to science more.

[Cobra's_back]

The core of it is that masculinity and male sexuality is perceived as active and femininity and female sexuality is perceived as passive.

 

Because of that, gay male relationships are a provacation in a manner that lesbian relationships are not.

 

I wanted someone to say what i already knew. To put it another way some see females as entertainment. They are not to be aggressive or their own person. Women are suppose to be from Venus and men from Mars.

 

And if you are Not then I'm sure there will be plenty of people trying to force you into that situation. 

 

But that is not always the case. There will be a % pop of females that are hardly passive or from Venus. 

 

How many times has a lady's man come up to a female expecting her to be impress? How many females replied they had no interest in a guy who had more miles than the yellow pages?  

[BabyPuncher]

I said femininity is perceived as passive. Not females. There's a significant difference. And in fact, more or less the opposite of what you're describing happens. Because femininity is passive, women have much, much, more freedom to express their sexuality in situations men would never be allowed to. Because being passive, it's not a provocation.

[Legion of 1337]

I don't. To me, he's memorable for the rest of his character.

Dorian's sexuality barely even comes up outside of his personal quest. And even there the main issue was that he wasn't willing to play along with Tevinter's social mores. Not that he was gay by itself. You might have ended up with a similar story if he had been straight and refused to go along with an arranged marriage.

I find it really hard not to when literally the first thing said about the guy was "first fully gay companion".

 

Made it pretty clear what the focus was.

[Majestic Jazz]

I said femininity is perceived as passive. Not females. There's a significant difference. And in fact, more or less the opposite of what you're describing happens. Because femininity is passive, women have much, much, more freedom to express their sexuality in situations men would never be allowed to. Because being passive, it's not a provocation.

 

I agree with this, which also explains why women can openly cry and people "feel sorry" for them whereas if a male openly cries, he is weak and needs to "man up". 

[The Oracle]

I actually have issues with that. You know, time and again, many woman rage and yell in the internet about gay people and being respectful. Even thought most of them are actually straight, and they still try to talk in these people's place as if they understand homosexuals better then they understand themselves. And you know what I think? They don't really respect homosexuals. They fetishize them, treat homosexualism like an perverse fantasy, like an fangirl reading those manga they call yaoi. To them it's more of an play rather then a part of their lives.

 

Eh...just wondering but where's the line between being an uncaring, fangirl fetishist or just being someone who can empathise with others who are marginalised/berated/abused? I doubt most of the people, male or female, who speak out against homophobia, do so because of some childish fantasy. Most probably do it because they see people being treated poorly for who they're attracted to. I mean, I don't know what it's like to fox, but I'll speak out against fox hunting. I don't know what it's like to be a Syrian refugee or homeless or an abused child etc. but if there's a way that raising your voice in protest of mistreatment might make any difference, then I'll do it.

[Cobra's_back]

I said femininity is perceived as passive. Not females. There's a significant difference. And in fact, more or less the opposite of what you're describing happens. Because femininity is passive, women have much, much, more freedom to express their sexuality in situations men would never be allowed to. Because being passive, it's not a provocation.

 

I completely disagree. They are seen as toys by many. Many men don't watch two women go at it because they respect their choice. It is their entertainment. The same reason they watch pole dancers.

 

Is it a mistake that Sera doesn't seem to control her emotions well? She makes an excellent boy toy.