147 réponses à ce sujet

[DuskWanderer]

I know I shouldn't reply to this trollishness, but I needed a good laugh this afternoon.

Truly listen to a SJW if you want to see how correct I am. 

[Aren]

 

 

Look, there are gay people who play games.  Bioware creates content for all players.  You are just going to have to deal with gay content.  If that means that you can't appreciate a character, then so be it.  

Whilst i'm an avid supporter of characters having a set sexuality i'm in agreement with the point about characters sexualities being more important than their relevance to the plot. Bioware have painted themselves into a corner, even if they have done so willingly. The problem with being the shining beacon of inclusiveness is now they have to be exactly that, inclusive. All the time.

 

Now they have to create characters first and foremost to fill a quota; Gay man, straight man, bisexual man, gay woman, straight woman, bisexual woman at the very least. Now we also have trans characters as well, so it's only a matter of time before there are demands to have a trans companion in every game. I have no doubt that Maevaris will be a companion in DA4 (which is a shame because not only do I dislike companions that were introduced in the EU like Cole, but also because it seems the majority want to see her inclusion because she's trans more so than because she's a good character.) The list is ever expanding too, and there's only so many requests that Bioware can adhere to. Asexual, demisexual companions, polyamorous companions etc. Where do Bioware draw the line? Does everyone "deserve" to be represented? Furries perhaps, or even otherkin, transethnic people? Transabled? (yes, that's actually a thing i'm afraid to say, look it up.) At some point Bioware is going to have to become somewhat exclusionary just to keep their games from becoming too ridiculous.

 

Characters, especially companions should be there first and foremost to serve the plot, not to make a certain part of the player base feel included. If they can do both then great. Hopefully Bioware will improve on creating plot relevant companions for future DA titles.

[BabyPuncher]

Bioware creates content for all players.

No, they don't.

They really, really don't. Surely you don't actually believe that?

Oh, they officially pretend to. Plenty of people do. Pretty much every corporation that bothers to advertise does. But that's just a silly delusion that's laughably easy to expose. If there's really any belief in it at all.

And they shouldn't.

[daveliam]

I don't think very many people want Mae as a companion because she's trans.  I think almost all of her fans want her as a companion because she's a great character who is interesting and has strong ties to past characters (Isabela, Alistair, Varric, Dorian).  I mean, she's a Magister that drew inspiration from Mae West.  That's pretty great.  Oh, and she's also trans, so more's the better in my opinion. 

[The Oracle]

Yeah, I'm thinking you didn't actually read what I wrote.

 

Fine, Vivienne's quest starts in that way. That's my point. It starts as something decently adventurous. The final result is relevant to the Inquisition.

 

You might say that, but my impression is that Halward clumsily orchestrated that meeting. So if it goes bad, he'll just blame himself. If the Inquisitor proves helpful, Halward will most likely be happy about that. But he still won't be able to champion the Inquisition back in Tevinter.

 

It has to do with the relevance of each companion quest to the storyline or the Inquisition. Dorian's seems to be the only one that is about him alone, and in large part his sexual preference. Not doing the quest means you didn't miss out on anything important.

 

I didn't claim it was shoved in our faces. I wrote that 99% of it was loaded into that one, easily missed quest. Which means Dorian doesn't really succeed as BioWare's first openly homosexual companion because the quest that contains this content requires precise player actions in order to activate. Whereas the rest of his content deals with Tevinter and such.

 

Sera is an example of a win in that regard.

 

Again, you don't seem to have read my posts. I didn't write that Dorian was all about his sexuality. I wrote that way too much of it was loaded into that one quest that could easily be overlooked and never gone back to again. Thus the result would be that his sexuality would play next to no part whatsoever. In which case, he would be all about reforming Tevinter and proving himself, which is how he came off in my first playthough because I didn't get his personal quest.

 

I read your posts, elsewise I would not have quoted parts of them that I disagree with. I think the difference is what we both term a "success" when it comes to writing a gay character. I think that both Sera and Dorian work in their own regards, because they were written with their personalities and backgrounds considered.

 

Sera is more open about her sexuality, happy to talk about it in what would be considered a more vulgar manner than most. It fits her character, she voices her thoughts, is unashamed of any part of herself. I don't doubt that she's developed this due to being on the streets. She seems to have formed little attachment to anyone after running away, so she has no-one whose opinion she cares of to disappoint or disapprove of her choices. Anyone who challenges her, she'll just stick with arrows.

 

Dorian on the other hand, grew up with social and parental pressure. He loved his father and family and didn't want to disappoint. But, when faced with a life choice he didn't want to make, he stood up for himself, and when he was betrayed, he left. From everything you learn in game, he likes his love life to be a private matter, probably a habit formed from being in the Imperium. He's open about it if asked but he doesn't see a need to flaunt or talk about it constantly. It makes sense for him as a person.

 

It's like difference between Bull and Cassandra when it comes to their sexuality. Bull's open and happy to talk about it while Cassandra is more reserved. I doubt that anyone would say of Bull that he "wins" when it comes to sexual relationships and that Cassandra is a poor representation. Their sexuality is just in character for them.

 

For me, all the characters work very well in their representation. Their reactions and dialogue fit what you learn of them through the game. In my opinion, Dorian, while different to Sera in how it comes across in game, is just as good a representation, because it's unique and different, just like most people are.

[Cobra's_back]

People are really going through some mental gymnastics here to make their point that Sera, who happens to be female, is somehow a better representation than Dorian, who happens to be male.  And we're supposed to be believe that it's totally not at all even a little bit about girl on girl just being something they like and guy on guy being something they don't, right?

 

Best post ever! 

 

Direct and to the point. I don't think anyone could have stated it better.

[Mikka-chan]

You shouldn't disapprove if they never flirted with you. That is the key.

 

If a female never flirted with you, and you hit on her is it her fault? So you can be upset, and disapprove of her actions when she never flirted with you? Classic BS

 

If you get rejected for going after someone who never showed any interest, the blame is on you not that person. Humans are not toys. They have a right to say no, and that should be respected. I would be more upset with a person who said yes, but wasn't really interested.

 

I just want to point out that I *have* been that woman in the bar who gets flirted with and gets swore at, screamed at, or bitched at when I turn people down.  (I'm not saying it happens often: I don't think I'm that attractive, which is probably why it only seems happens in bars, but it does happen!)  It sucks, and no, "I like woman" (which is true- I just like men as well, but honestly, I'll tell people who hit on me at bars that I'm gay, straight, married, live in a different country or whatever it takes to get them to leave me alone) doesn't make them any nicer about it.  I've also been that woman who has a close friend come to me and profess attraction especially in a difficult time and turned them down.

 

Often, that led to them pulling away from me for a while and being upset.

 

Likewise, I've confessed to people- male and female- and gotten turned down.  Probably more then I've turned down people (unless we count the early days in MMOs when everyone would hit on me, in which I always just said I was male and never used voice chat again... so glad that's mostly over)!  And many times, especially with friends, being turned down *hurt*.  Did it make me resent the person?  Not in any way but the most childish/petty that you know is undeserving of you.  But did it often make me pull away from them for a bit to deal with my feelings and not burden them, and also out of embarassment.

 

And I think that's what Anders does.

 

You don't get the dialog if you choose mostly aggressive options: you have to be diplomatic or snarky, not harsh.  So to him, you're being nice to him, you've been doing favors for him, you've been getting closer... and he confesses, and you turn him down.  And he's hurt, he's feeling awkward, he's feeling embarassed- so yeah, you pick up a bit of rivalry.  Is it the most mature thing?  No, of course not.  But it's very realistic.

 

And, hey, you know who else does this and yet I've never heard any complaints about?

 

Lelianna.

 

It was fixed in one of the many dialog fixes for PC mods, but on a console or unmodded, playing a female character, all you basically have to do is chat about your hair together and choose a non-dick response (simply 'I'm flattered you like my company' which is not in my usual experience a flirt)!  Next thing you know, you're happily with Zev or Alistair, and they're like 'You can't date both of us!' and you're hitting a -20 approval drop because, hey, you like to talk about hair fashion and you told her you're glad she's fond of you.  Amusingly, this can basically happen more then once: there's a few other oppertunties for a female character to hit Leliana's romance flag without actually flirting or really doing anything.  I think there's one that works for males, too- after the confrontation, ask her if Marj was special to her, then basically say 'I'm sorry it ended badly' which seems to be a pretty neutral 'Aww, you had a bad relationship, BFF, that sucks!' response- and her romance flag is triggered, and if you break up, you loose affection (especially if you're with Morrigan/Zev/Alistair already, in which there doesn't really seem to be a good line that doesn't lose affection).

 

Yet, somehow, no one complains about Leliana, a female character, coming on their possible lesbian female or gay male character and losing approval when turned down.  Only Anders, a male character, coming on to a possibly straight male character and losing friendship is bad, it seems.

[Wulfram]

I've seen quite a few complaints about Leliana's ninja-mancing. Usually rather less over the top than the Anders complaints, but they're still there.

(We complain a lot here. "No one complains about X" is never accurate)

[Mikka-chan]

Oh, yeah, there's the complaints about the ninjamancing (Zev and Alistair are known for it, too, and get complaints as well- I don't see as many Morrigan ninjamance complaints, but I'm sure they're out there!).  That's a fair cop, and should be noted.  But the approval loss, in paticular, doesn't seem to be complained about.

 

Just like these days I don't see too many complaints about Anders starting flirting with a male (there was a huge outcry once upon a time, but most of those people probably ended up chased off these boards, honestly, for good or ill).  It's the approval drop/rivalry points from the turn down that seem to be the issue.

 

Yet if you get flirted with/ninjaromanced with Leliana (or to be fair, any of the other three- Leliana's just the easiest as her romance starters can be completely 'normal' seeming) and are already in a romance with someone, I don't believe there's anyway out of that conversation without losing approval.  Alistair ninjamancing can be turned down without approval loss, and I think you can turn down Zev as a male without approval loss if your going for one of the gals (which, owch), but Leianna, I can't seem to find a way (especially if you're with Morrigan).  That doesn't seem to get the same bile as the Anders rivalry.

 

(Admittedly, gaining affection is so much easier in Origins due to the spam gifts, but Lei flirts with straight female and loses approval if turned down is usually seen as 'annoying, but okay' while Anders flirts with straight male and loses approval if turned down is somehow horrible and wrong and doesn't fit the game or his overly moody and emotional (disfunctional...) personality.)

 

 

...(Why don't I have a Mass Effect icon?  That makes me sad.  I bought that game!  And the stupid fighting DLC I hated, too!)

[London]

Mikka- I've had the same thing happen in clubs. Surprising how angry people can get when you turn them down.

In regards to the Anders approval, it didn't bother me because I had to deal with different personality quicks throughout the trilogy.

Being nice or even just not an ass made me lose lots of approval with Morrigan. Same with Isabela - she often complained I was too helpful and I had to take approval hits. Just personality quicks to deal with.

[DuskWanderer]

Best post ever! 

 

Direct and to the point. I don't think anyone could have stated it better.

 

With no proof of the matter, it's pretty clear the guy's doing it just to hate on straight dudes. Hardly uncommon in topics like these. 

[Dai Grepher]

I read your posts, elsewise I would not have quoted parts of them that I disagree with. I think the difference is what we both term a "success" when it comes to writing a gay character. I think that both Sera and Dorian work in their own regards, because they were written with their personalities and backgrounds considered.

 

Sera is more open about her sexuality, happy to talk about it in what would be considered a more vulgar manner than most. It fits her character, she voices her thoughts, is unashamed of any part of herself. I don't doubt that she's developed this due to being on the streets. She seems to have formed little attachment to anyone after running away, so she has no-one whose opinion she cares of to disappoint or disapprove of her choices. Anyone who challenges her, she'll just stick with arrows.

 

Dorian on the other hand, grew up with social and parental pressure. He loved his father and family and didn't want to disappoint. But, when faced with a life choice he didn't want to make, he stood up for himself, and when he was betrayed, he left. From everything you learn in game, he likes his love life to be a private matter, probably a habit formed from being in the Imperium. He's open about it if asked but he doesn't see a need to flaunt or talk about it constantly. It makes sense for him as a person.

 

It's like difference between Bull and Cassandra when it comes to their sexuality. Bull's open and happy to talk about it while Cassandra is more reserved. I doubt that anyone would say of Bull that he "wins" when it comes to sexual relationships and that Cassandra is a poor representation. Their sexuality is just in character for them.

 

For me, all the characters work very well in their representation. Their reactions and dialogue fit what you learn of them through the game. In my opinion, Dorian, while different to Sera in how it comes across in game, is just as good a representation, because it's unique and different, just like most people are.

 

You quoted them but then you responded with counters to points I never made.

 

Like this current point you're making. I never wrote that Dorian was any kind of failed character because of his manners or demeanor. My point is that BioWare failed to really implement Dorian as homosexual since they placed most of that content in a quest that is easy to miss. Meaning, if you missed that quest, you missed the content. Sera on the other hand drops little hints now and then. So she is visible, but she doesn't make a spectacle of it. That's why I think Sera is the better representation.
 

[Dai Grepher]

I just want to point out that I *have* been that woman in the bar who gets flirted with and gets swore at, screamed at, or bitched at when I turn people down.  (I'm not saying it happens often: I don't think I'm that attractive, which is probably why it only seems happens in bars, but it does happen!)  It sucks, and no, "I like woman" (which is true- I just like men as well, but honestly, I'll tell people who hit on me at bars that I'm gay, straight, married, live in a different country or whatever it takes to get them to leave me alone) doesn't make them any nicer about it.  I've also been that woman who has a close friend come to me and profess attraction especially in a difficult time and turned them down.

 

Often, that led to them pulling away from me for a while and being upset.

 

Likewise, I've confessed to people- male and female- and gotten turned down.  Probably more then I've turned down people (unless we count the early days in MMOs when everyone would hit on me, in which I always just said I was male and never used voice chat again... so glad that's mostly over)!  And many times, especially with friends, being turned down *hurt*.  Did it make me resent the person?  Not in any way but the most childish/petty that you know is undeserving of you.  But did it often make me pull away from them for a bit to deal with my feelings and not burden them, and also out of embarassment.

 

And I think that's what Anders does.

 

You don't get the dialog if you choose mostly aggressive options: you have to be diplomatic or snarky, not harsh.  So to him, you're being nice to him, you've been doing favors for him, you've been getting closer... and he confesses, and you turn him down.  And he's hurt, he's feeling awkward, he's feeling embarassed- so yeah, you pick up a bit of rivalry.  Is it the most mature thing?  No, of course not.  But it's very realistic.

 

And, hey, you know who else does this and yet I've never heard any complaints about?

 

Lelianna.

 

It was fixed in one of the many dialog fixes for PC mods, but on a console or unmodded, playing a female character, all you basically have to do is chat about your hair together and choose a non-dick response (simply 'I'm flattered you like my company' which is not in my usual experience a flirt)!  Next thing you know, you're happily with Zev or Alistair, and they're like 'You can't date both of us!' and you're hitting a -20 approval drop because, hey, you like to talk about hair fashion and you told her you're glad she's fond of you.  Amusingly, this can basically happen more then once: there's a few other oppertunties for a female character to hit Leliana's romance flag without actually flirting or really doing anything.  I think there's one that works for males, too- after the confrontation, ask her if Marj was special to her, then basically say 'I'm sorry it ended badly' which seems to be a pretty neutral 'Aww, you had a bad relationship, BFF, that sucks!' response- and her romance flag is triggered, and if you break up, you loose affection (especially if you're with Morrigan/Zev/Alistair already, in which there doesn't really seem to be a good line that doesn't lose affection).

 

Yet, somehow, no one complains about Leliana, a female character, coming on their possible lesbian female or gay male character and losing approval when turned down.  Only Anders, a male character, coming on to a possibly straight male character and losing friendship is bad, it seems.

 

Well then you see why a character who responds that way would seem annoying.

 

Leliana was bugged. That's why people didn't complain about her character. They complained about the bugs instead.
 

[daveliam]

Ha!  Did I just get accused of "hating on straight guys"?  BSN, never change!

[Cobra's_back]

I just want to point out that I *have* been that woman in the bar who gets flirted with and gets swore at, screamed at, or bitched at when I turn people down.  (I'm not saying it happens often: I don't think I'm that attractive, which is probably why it only seems happens in bars, but it does happen!)  It sucks, and no, "I like woman" (which is true- I just like men as well, but honestly, I'll tell people who hit on me at bars that I'm gay, straight, married, live in a different country or whatever it takes to get them to leave me alone) doesn't make them any nicer about it.  I've also been that woman who has a close friend come to me and profess attraction especially in a difficult time and turned them down.

 

Often, that led to them pulling away from me for a while and being upset.

 

Likewise, I've confessed to people- male and female- and gotten turned down.  Probably more then I've turned down people (unless we count the early days in MMOs when everyone would hit on me, in which I always just said I was male and never used voice chat again... so glad that's mostly over)!  And many times, especially with friends, being turned down *hurt*.  Did it make me resent the person?  Not in any way but the most childish/petty that you know is undeserving of you.  But did it often make me pull away from them for a bit to deal with my feelings and not burden them, and also out of embarassment.

 

And I think that's what Anders does.

 

You don't get the dialog if you choose mostly aggressive options: you have to be diplomatic or snarky, not harsh.  So to him, you're being nice to him, you've been doing favors for him, you've been getting closer... and he confesses, and you turn him down.  And he's hurt, he's feeling awkward, he's feeling embarassed- so yeah, you pick up a bit of rivalry.  Is it the most mature thing?  No, of course not.  But it's very realistic.

 

And, hey, you know who else does this and yet I've never heard any complaints about?

 

Lelianna.

 

It was fixed in one of the many dialog fixes for PC mods, but on a console or unmodded, playing a female character, all you basically have to do is chat about your hair together and choose a non-dick response (simply 'I'm flattered you like my company' which is not in my usual experience a flirt)!  Next thing you know, you're happily with Zev or Alistair, and they're like 'You can't date both of us!' and you're hitting a -20 approval drop because, hey, you like to talk about hair fashion and you told her you're glad she's fond of you.  Amusingly, this can basically happen more then once: there's a few other oppertunties for a female character to hit Leliana's romance flag without actually flirting or really doing anything.  I think there's one that works for males, too- after the confrontation, ask her if Marj was special to her, then basically say 'I'm sorry it ended badly' which seems to be a pretty neutral 'Aww, you had a bad relationship, BFF, that sucks!' response- and her romance flag is triggered, and if you break up, you loose affection (especially if you're with Morrigan/Zev/Alistair already, in which there doesn't really seem to be a good line that doesn't lose affection).

 

Yet, somehow, no one complains about Leliana, a female character, coming on their possible lesbian female or gay male character and losing approval when turned down.  Only Anders, a male character, coming on to a possibly straight male character and losing friendship is bad, it seems.

 

When I played DAO, I had to use a conversation guide just to deal with the two of them. I never like the conservation guide that much at all. Zev, Leliana, Isabella and Morrigan were a pain.

 

I still don't support disapproval for honesty. It can change a person if she/he has to fear someone getting angry or mad at them because they told were honest about their feelings.

 

I'm surprised you took the harassment so lightly. No one should have to listen to that. Unfortunately, You don't have to go to a bar to get harassed.

 

Out of college as an engineer, the corporation wanted me to explain code division multiplexing over the air communications. At first it was exciting, but after a while some people were too interested in me. I had been harassed and had to deal with stalkers. This made me angry. I started working out not at the regular gyms where people don't leave you alone. I went to the hard core free weights power-lifting and bodybuilding clubs. I needed to release my anger. At 5-4 125 I could bench 185 lbs 8 reps, one arm row with 85 lbs each easy. I changed and became hard on the outside and inside. That is not a good thing. I met my husband another engineer who won some shows, and over time he helped me come back to who I was.

 

Harassment is painful. I'm surprised you didn't want to rip their heads off. I couldn't take it. It was just to easy to see red. Not everyone takes it lightly. I once body slam an idiot for grabbing me. After a while I was able to see it coming, and could rip someone with words. I guess that is why I like Viv. It has to be done professionally having the upper hand and a cool head.

 

I don't want to see people go through this. I gave up travel when we starting having kids. Now I'm more mellow. That doesn't mean I don't remember or won't get angry if I see any behavior headed in that direction. 

 

Well now I hope you understand, and don't let someone talk to you like that again. 

 

Time for me to leave for a while. Shared more than I wanted to, but sometimes someone has to call it what it is. Harassment, BS power trip as if you don't have a right to your own body.

[9TailsFox]

It's fairly common among the SJW's. They like to pretend they aren't, but the truth is that they are offended the characters aren't like them. 

I am racist, I don't have black friend.

[chrstnmonks]

I think the "p" word is still very real and some straight white men do take for granted that they are represented in games, or fail to realize how often heterosexuality is actually portrayed in games.

One poster on IGN said that gays were attention seeking, and articles like this were annoying and unneeded. He was saying that he wouldn't care if other video game characters were gay, and used Kratos from God of War as an example of a character whose sexuality wouldn't have mattered if his character ended up being gay.

I see this point to an extent, but wondered how this person would have reacted if Kratos was gay and suddenly was watching two guys make out in the "sex mini game" and had sex with some male character instead of Aphroditi. There probably would have been outrage on the gaming forums for being forced into not just hearing about, but SEEING gay content - and it would come from the people who approved of the lesbian sex mini game present in game. I mean some posters here couldn't even handle 2 sentences of dialogue from Anders attempting to initiate a s/s relationship let alone something like that.

I think game developers do purposely consider characters sexual orientation, but usually insist that game leads are straight. The heterosexual norm then allows for the inclusion of love interests or activities like going to strip clubs / brothels with several female sex options that would need to be edited out of the game if the character was gay for fear of public backlash. I am sure if Kratos was written to be gay, there would have been no "gay sex mini game" or Aphroditi type scene because this wouldn't appeal to straight white men.

The argument that gay characters can "just happen to be gay" without discussion would only presently work for most games if you played the entire game with no mention of the characters sexuality at all, or only very vague mentions. We wouldn't see the volume and variety of content heterosexual characters get because it would just be too outrageous.

I think some day, articles praising games for having diversity will actually not be needed. But I don't think that time has come quite yet.

I think alot of problems with Anders lines was timing, also. I mean not more than a second ago you just watched him kill Karl and nearly in tears. But than not more than a few minutes later he hits on you. I know some time was supposed to have passed from the Karl scene to the flirt scene, but the game doesn't really handle that well. i think the Anders romance arc  would have been less problematic if it  started in act two instead of one.

[Phoenix_Also_Rises]

Looking at the preceding discussion(s) I am almost too scared to comment

 

Anyways, thank you, OP, for linking this article. Great read. The comments were...wow. I think I am getting soft and weak with age because that was...wow. Yeah, made it about five posts in. 

 

Me, I adore Dorian. Unless it is a very elf-specific mission, he is always on my team. To me, he is this really talented mage who is smart, funny, has class but also some baggage. He is a great guy to hang out with and I love having him around. One of my favorite moments has to be when the mother Whatserduckface says "I have this letter, we must trick Dorian into coming to Redcliffe because reasons, do not tell him under any circumstances!" Reply: "Sure, revered mother, I will get on that not telling thing right away. Would you excuse me for a second? I need to...um...do some top secret Inquisitor thing you would not possibly understand because yeah, Inquisitor thing. DORIANDORIANDORIAN OMG YOU WOULD NOT BELIEVE WHAT HAPPENED"

[Sah291]

For me the important thing is whether the characterization serves the plot/narrative of the story. If it feels tacked on or out of place, like it belongs in another story, then maybe it does belong in another story. So if this is a question whether Dorian's characterization (including the issue of his sexuality) and personal subplot distracts from the main plot or feels out of place? No it doesn't. It really doesn't. And here's why.

 

What are some of the major themes of DAI, and of Dragon Age? Slavery, bondage (political and spiritual), mind control, free will versus duty, freedom versus security, change versus tradition, etc. Dorian's personal quest is about an arranged marriage--a bond being imposed against his will as a matter of duty and state, and blood magic as a tool to force the issue. The fact that he prefers to be with men is a reason why he doesn't want to go along with it, but fact is, it could have been any particular reason. But it's important to the subplot here to highlight, because this is a conflict between his individual identity/desires versus his family/duty.

 

This same theme pops up again in Cole's subplot, Varric and Bianca, and bunches of other places in the story. The various character romances and subplots all do (and should) reinforce each other. They explore the same issues from different angles, and from different perspectives, but they all fit the theme.

 

Maybe the reason why a lot of people miss the plot relevance (besides simply missing his quest altogether) is because the we are used to seeing the whole arranged marriage theme in media depicted from a female perspective? Certainly I have seen coming out stories before where the parents want to try and "fix" the child, and that in of itself isn't new, but I just don't often see arranged marriage stories told from the POV of a male (gay, straight, or otherwise) so that makes this one a little different.

[Dai Grepher]

I think it's a stretch to write that Dorian's personal quest is related to any of the main themes of Inquisition. Cole was trying to find himself and define himself. Not the same thing as Dorian's case. Cole, Blackwall, and The Iron Bull had similar themes. Varric's case is also different. More like Vivienne's in a way.

 

I think the quest would have been relevant if it had led to Halward supporting the Inquisition in some way by supporting Dorian's efforts to stop Venatori activities. Also, I think Dorian's quest should have happened later and perhaps in a different location, like in Orlais or something. Also, it should have gone in stages, like the reconciliation would have to come first, and then some more negotiation, and then the Pavus family providing some aid or info. That would have made the quest line relevant.

[metalfenix]

Ha!  Did I just get accused of "hating on straight guys"?  BSN, never change!

 

as one post-apocalyptic game would say:

 

"BSN, BSN never changes"

[In Exile]

I think it's a stretch to write that Dorian's personal quest is related to any of the main themes of Inquisition. Cole was trying to find himself and define himself. Not the same thing as Dorian's case. Cole, Blackwall, and The Iron Bull had similar themes. Varric's case is also different. More like Vivienne's in a way.

 

Dorian's quest is about duty. That's like... one of the most ecompassing themes about DA:I, alongside faith. 

[Shechinah]

Dorian's quest is about duty. That's like... one of the most ecompassing themes about DA:I, alongside faith. 

 

I've just noticed but one of the themes of DA:I is also identity; it features in a lot of the companions' quests especially in regards to decisions about their identity. To name a few; Cole's choice of identity, Iron Bull's conflict about his identities, Blackwall's shame about his identity and Dorian's defiance against adopting an identity at the cost of his own identity.

 

The Inquisitor can even have their own identity questioned especially if they are elven and learns the truth about their racial history and the vallaslin.
 

[AresKeith]

I've just noticed but one of the themes of DA:I is also identity; it features in a lot of the companions' quests especially in regards to decisions about their identity. To name a few; Cole's choice of identity, Iron Bull's conflict about his identities, Blackwall's shame about his identity and Dorian's defiance to keep his identity and refusal to adopt the expected identity
 

 

 

[In Exile]

I've just noticed but one of the themes of DA:I is also identity; it features in a lot of the companions' quests especially in regards to decisions about their identity. To name a few; Cole's choice of identity, Iron Bull's conflict about his identities, Blackwall's shame about his identity and Dorian's defiance against adopting an identity at the cost of his own identity.

 

The Inquisitor can even have their own identity questioned especially if they are elven and learns the truth about their racial history and the vallaslin.
 

 

The Inquisitor does have his or her identity question in Here Lyes the Abyss or whatever the name of that questline was, because of how the Anchor came about vs. how it was said to come about at the temple. Of course, some Inquisitor's totally believed that anyway, but that's hardly the writer's fault.