204 réponses à ce sujet

[Andraste_Reborn]

I think part of the reason is that David Gaider does way more interviews than Lukas Kristjanson, Sera's writer. The last time I recall seeing him talk about Sera was before the game even came out, during the writer interviews BioWare did internally. So he's not out there on the internet answering questions about her sexuality.

[Cobra's_back]

Wow. This really puts in perspective how lesbians are more catered to than gay guys.

 

I don't think they are catered to. I think they are being used for another purpose. It is a male fantasy for a certain percentage of males NOT all.

[Majestic Jazz]

I think part of the reason is that David Gaider does way more interviews than Lukas Kristjanson, Sera's writer. The last time I recall seeing him talk about Sera was before the game even came out, during the writer interviews BioWare did internally. So he's not out there on the internet answering questions about her sexuality.

 

But whether or not he specifically wrote Sera or not does not matter because he is the LEAD writer on DAI. So I am sure that he was fully aware of Sera being gay as it probably had to be approved by him or something. However when he goes out and does interviews and brings up the topic of homosexuality, he talks as if Dorian is the sole gay character in the game which is simply misleading. If he wants to talk about Dorian because Dorian is a gay man, like Gaider himself, then he should be specific and use terms like "First gay man" or something to that nature to distinguish him from Sera which is also gay to, but a female. However he does not do that and thus Dorian seems to get pushed around as breaking videogame barrier for being the first gay character in a Bioware game which is FAR from the truth.

[Super Drone]

Part of the reason Bioware didn't expect unhappy fans over the LIs was because they assumed a lot of males were going to play female characters and go for the f/f options anyway.

[Majestic Jazz]

I don't think they are catered to. I think they are being used for another purpose. It is a male fantasy for a certain percentage of males NOT all.

 

Exactly, Lesbians are only "accepted more" because it plays into the general heterosexual male fantasy of seeing two girls in action. Whereas with many women, seeing two guys going at it doesn't have the same atheistic appeal as two females.

 

However that does NOT mean that gay women are more favored or catered to more because last time I checked, f/f couples were denied the same access and rights as m/m couples were. 

[Majestic Jazz]

Part of the reason Bioware didn't expect unhappy fans over the LIs was because they assumed a lot of males were going to play female characters and go for the f/f options anyway.

 

Then why won't Bioware just say "First gay male character..." then if that was the issue?

[Andraste_Reborn]

Whereas with many women, seeing two guys going at it doesn't have the same atheistic appeal as two females.

 

This is not a universal opinion. I'm not sure how one would go about gathering accurate data on what percentage of women are into m/m, but almost twenty years in fandom tells me that we're not exactly a rare breed.

 

(I mean, speaking as a slash fangirl who made a hot qunari to romance Dorian ...)

[Majestic Jazz]

This is not a universal opinion. I'm not sure how one would go about gathering accurate data on what percentage of women are into m/m, but almost twenty years in fandom tells me that we're not exactly a rare breed.

 

(I mean, speaking as a slash fangirl who made a hot qunari to romance Dorian ...)

 

True, but in my personal experience, I have seen more women say "eww" to m/m interactions than I have seen men say "eww" to f/f interactions. 

[WildOrchid]

Whereas with many women, seeing two guys going at it doesn't have the same atheistic appeal as two females.

 

You'd be surprised... There's just so many women who love seeing m/m stuff and tumblr is full of it. Also reason why yaoi is pretty popular in Japan.

[Wargrim]

I think the reason Dorian is getting all the hype, is because of all the Gay Parades and Anti-Gay Parades. 

And so I think BioWare wanted to "make the right moral choice" to save face and officially and publicly announce that Dorian is a gay romance option in DA:I.

[Majestic Jazz]

I think the reason Dorian is getting all the hype, is because of all the Gay Parades and Anti-Gay Parades. 

And so I think BioWare wanted to "make the right moral choice" to save face and officially and publicly announce that Dorian is a gay romance option in DA:I.

 

So how does this explain why they exclude Sera from such fame?

 

If taking a pro-gay or pro-equality stance was Bioware's goal, then why not mention BOTH Dorain AND Sera as the first two fully gay companions in a Bioware game? That they they are publically supporting both m/m couples as well as supporting and paying respects to f/f couples.

 

Bioware's choice of excluding Sera seems a bit odd.

[Shechinah]

Would you mind providing links to to the times where Bioware has titled Dorian as "first gay character"?

 

The times I've looked for and read articles on the matter, it has been the writers of said articles that emphasises Dorian's sexuality above his other character aspects and titles him in that manner as oppose to the writers and developers of the game doing so. Often time they quote a piece from the David Gaider interview on Dorian's character. Said piece is also the smallest section of the character discussion. It may be down to missing some articles and quotes but from what I've seen it seems to be everybody but Bioware that hypes Dorian in such a manner.    

[AllThatJazz]

True, but in my personal experience, I have seen more women say "eww" to m/m interactions than I have seen men say "eww" to f/f interactions.

Wow. I don't know any straight women who go 'ew' at the thought of a couple of hot guys, at the least it's indifference. clearly we move in very different circles.

I've heard Dorian referred to by Bioware as their first gay male companion, and as dragon Age's first gay male character in a major role, and as dragon age's first gay (as opposed to bi) male romance. I've never heard anyone from Bioware refer to him as their first gay character. Maybe it's IGN being IGN? The title of the article refers to a 'breakout' gay character, which isn't so much about him being the first ever, but more the first to achieve a certain degree of popularity, and there's no denying that Dorian is a very popular character.

[JWvonGoethe]

OK, here's the actual answer to the question posed by the OP:
 
David Gaider said in an interview that Dorian was the first character he had written who happened to be exclusively homosexual. Rather than using the term "exclusively homosexual" however, he used the term "fully gay". Both phrases mean "person who is only attracted to members of the same sex", but the media ran with the "fully gay" phrase because it had more of a sensationalist appeal - they could twist it to sound as if it meant "not just gay, but super gay". This was a pretty shameless act to rile up homophobes, generating countless rage-induced clickbait articles in the process.
 
Anyway, David was only talking about Dorian being the first gay character that he himself had personally written - which was obviously quite important to him, considering he is gay himself - but the media misrepresented the quote as meaning that Dorian was BioWare's first gay character. Since the story was so popular due it's sensationalism, this misconception has stuck.
 
Source to the original interview that started this whole thing - "Dorian is gay - he is, in fact, the first fully gay character I've had the opportunity to write."

[Wargrim]

So how does this explain why they exclude Sera from such fame?

 

If taking a pro-gay or pro-equality stance was Bioware's goal, then why not mention BOTH Dorain AND Sera as the first two fully gay companions in a Bioware game? That they they are publically supporting both m/m couples as well as supporting and paying respects to f/f couples.

 

Bioware's choice of excluding Sera seems a bit odd.

 

I know not why BioWare decided to exclude Sera.

 

But from my won point of view, lesbian couples are nothing new. (Neither are gay couples). And what I mean from this is, from what I have seen and gathered myself, lesbian couples have been labeled as a "phase" that some women go through. I am sure over time lesbian couples have gotten far more serious to show that it is no longer a phase, it is who they are. From what I recall there were no parades or legal issues. 

 

But when two men want to smash extremities together, apparently Religions, Governments, and the Moral High Horse People want to say "No!". 

So for however long now, Gay Pride Parades and legal issues have been going at it, and now since Gay Marriage is legalized, it is apparently a HUGE DEAL.

[daveliam]

And thats my point exactly! Sera, like Dorian is a homosexual character. Yet in the perspective of DAI, only Dorian is marketed as such.

 

I really think that X Equestris already covered that.  Sera is not the first f/f romance and she's not the first lesbian companion.  But Dorian was the first gay male companion, so he got a special nod.  And, frankly, it's a bit overblown anyway.  I can understand why he was excited to talk about Dorian and finally being able to write a gay character that he'd expressed interest in before.  But I think it got blown out of proportion by most media sources.

[Jaison1986]

I really think that X Equestris already covered that.  Sera is not the first f/f romance and she's not the first lesbian companion.  But Dorian was the first gay male companion, so he got a special nod.  And, frankly, it's a bit overblown anyway.  I can understand why he was excited to talk about Dorian and finally being able to write a gay character that he'd expressed interest in before.  But I think it got blown out of proportion by most media sources.

 

Sometimes I think we could have a lot more of these kind of characters if the fandom and the media didn't blew things out of proportion. I think they are the ones that really make things annoying. Talk about Dorian with an casual fan and it's usually an civil conversation. Talk about Dorian with fans on tumblr or here and it turns into a bunch of loud sensitive gibberish.

[Guitar-Hero]

He is a man, we live in a world where fictional characters don't have equal rights, i vote that every character should be uni-sexual and not be defined by their sexes, so every character should be adressed as herm or he-woman, because in our society you are accepted no matter what skin color you have or sexual preference or gender and i am extremely offended that videogames such as TW3 dares show womens sexual nature(because women hate sex) and that they dare show the hardship one might have to go through if you are classified as different.

Bioware has set the standard for inclusive and non conflictual games where, much like real life people accept and love eachother.   

[RZIBARA]

The fact that this is even important shows how low Bioware has stooped

[FKA_Servo]

The fact that this is even important shows how low Bioware has stooped

 

Given some of these responses, my takeaway is precisely the opposite.

[RZIBARA]

Given some of these responses, my takeaway is precisely the opposite.

 

Sexual orientation should not even matter in a video game, the fact that this crap is a big deal to gaming shows how dumb it has become.

 

And Dorian isn't even a good example either. Why does Bioware always base LGBT characters mainly on a stereotype or sexuality? One of Dorian's main personality traits is that he is gay. You can make a character homosexual without that being a main trait. 

[FKA_Servo]

Sexual orientation should not even matter in a video game, the fact that this crap is a big deal to gaming shows how dumb it has become.

 

And Dorian isn't even a good example either. Why does Bioware always base LGBT characters mainly on a stereotype or sexuality? One of Dorian's main personality traits is that he is gay. You can make a character homosexual without that being a main trait. 

 

If so, then why did some people yell and scream about how an all bi cast "cheapened" the characterization in DA2? And why does the subject reliably attract so many unhinged psychos taking umbrage at these character's very inclusion?

 

Back to lurking. The OP is certainly getting exactly what he was fishing for, at any rate.

[katerinafm]

Actually, gay can apply to women as well.

 

I mostly refer to myself as a gay lady than lesbian.

 

I was referring to how the writer of the article used the term, not that it could not apply in general x_x.

[daveliam]

Sexual orientation should not even matter in a video game, the fact that this crap is a big deal to gaming shows how dumb it has become.

And Dorian isn't even a good example either. Why does Bioware always base LGBT characters mainly on a stereotype or sexuality? One of Dorian's main personality traits is that he is gay. You can make a character homosexual without that being a main trait.

Right. And they do that. Juhani, Sky, Silk Fox, Liara, Leliana, Merrill, Fenris, Steve, Kaidan, Samantha, Sera, and Josephine are LGBT and their sexuality is not part of the plot.

And it's ALSO okay to create LGBT characters that deal with LGBT themes. Like Dorian.

[WildOrchid]

Right. And they do that. Juhani, Sky, Silk Fox, Liara, Leliana, Merrill, Fenris, Steve, Kaidan, Samantha, Sera, and Josephine are LGBT and their sexuality is not part of the plot.

And it's ALSO okay to create LGBT characters that deal with LGBT themes. Like Dorian.

 

And the funny thing is that the people who talk about how "it shouldn't be a big deal" are the ones that make it out to be a big deal.

 

All of those characters don't even talk about their sexuality, yet when one does it suddenly it's "the only thing BW cares about".

 

People sure do exaggerate a lot.