204 réponses à ce sujet

[Dai Grepher]

No, because he refused to, as Dorian himself puts it, "play pretend for the rest of my life".

 

The issue did not lie in his sexual orientation but in his refusal to marry and father an heir, something that could as easily have been brought about because Dorian refused to marry without love or because he had no interest in children. Dorian could have married and sired a child regardless of his sexual orientation, there would have been ways for him to do so. It was because of his refusal to do so that Halward, his father, resorted to blood magic to forcibly make it so.       

 

But his sexual preference was the cause for not wanting to marry and have children. So it was about his sexual preference.

 

I'm just baffled when people try to downplay that aspect of the storyline. As if recognizing it makes you some sort of hatemonger.

 

If Dorian's only issue were refusing to marry and have children, then his problem would have been no different from Anora's always being badgered to produce an heir. But in that case Halward would not have turned to bloodmagic. He simply would have pestered Dorian or tried to find more suitable women for him. The bloodmagic was meant for the sexual preference. It's like I wrote a while back, the bloodmagic would not have been used to make a homosexual male want to marry and procreate with a woman against his will, it would have been used to make a homosexual male heterosexual.

[giveamanafish...]

Consider this Sera doesn't get the title because Sera serves two purposes. She is a male fantasy. Two girls making out. Please note they show more skin in her romance scene.

 

Dorian is picked because he is the romance scene for a selective market. He is well written and acted. Don't want him leaving even if he is not my romance pick. As far as I'm concern more choices help the game.

Well based on the Casandra romance, men who are using this material for fantasy enhancement better be quick.

[Panda]

But his sexual preference was the cause for not wanting to marry and have children. So it was about his sexual preference.

 

I'm just baffled when people try to downplay that aspect of the storyline. As if recognizing it makes you some sort of hatemonger.

 

If Dorian's only issue were refusing to marry and have children, then his problem would have been no different from Anora's always being badgered to produce an heir. But in that case Halward would not have turned to bloodmagic. He simply would have pestered Dorian or tried to find more suitable women for him. The bloodmagic was meant for the sexual preference. It's like I wrote a while back, the bloodmagic would not have been used to make a homosexual male want to marry and procreate with a woman against his will, it would have been used to make a homosexual male heterosexual.

 

I do think that his sexualiity is part of quest and his storyline, but it's not everything. It's also about Dorian going against Tevinter traditions (not wanting to marry without love and breed perfect mage children) and conflict between parent and child that have very different views in important things and parent wanting to alter his childs views that he seems wrong instead of listening Dorian's points or at least agreeing to disagree.

 

I'm not exactly sure what blood mage was supposed to do, how it can alter person like that. It can control one's mind, but would change of sexuality or willingness to marry and have children with woman be permanent due to blood magic? I find the solution to use blood magic really weird in the context ^^;

[Dai Grepher]

I agree that it's not everything, but it was the main issue. I don't think Dorian's stance was one of refusing Tevinter tradition so much as it was doing what he wanted and rejecting what he didn't want. He says he didn't want to live a life where he'd be screaming on the inside.

 

As for bloodmagic, yes, it would have worked to permanently change his sexual preference. It's like brainwashing or thought control. Similar to how the Qunari do it. A page in a book. Change a word here, a word there, like The Iron Bull says. The thing is, the bloodmagic spell could also go wrong. It could have turned Dorian into a drooling dunce.

[Donk]

Well based on the Casandra romance, men who are using this material for fantasy enhancement better be quick.

 

Cassandra is a romance option for gay men.

 

Sorry.. but I couldn't write that keeping a straight face.

[Dieb]

I agree that it's not everything, but it was the main issue. I don't think Dorian's stance was one of refusing Tevinter tradition so much as it was doing what he wanted and rejecting what he didn't want. He says he didn't want to live a life where he'd be screaming in the inside.

 

As it has probably been said before, being a gay man is not normal -in the true sense of the word- in our world, so that is bound to make someone stick out.

 

In Dorian's case, the presentation of the problem is different though. Most facts and reactions may remain the same, but his father isn't desperately unaccepting of his sexuality because he thinks it's morally wrong; rather because it's selfish and unproductive. It's basically the "I don't wanna be king" plot, with sexuality added as another layer - which could easily be anything else.

 

Without a doubt you're right to say it definitely is the inciting incident of it all. Yet I think, there is always that - some bit of their personality that bears the heaviest on them, the thing that makes everything around them spin. Again, most characters are driven by a very singular course. The important part is that it branches out shortly after that, and I still believe it does. I am genuinely not bullsh*ting you by saying, whenever I think about Dorian, I think about the vain, funny guy, who talks about Tevinter a lot. That is the approximate length of my assessment of any major character in such a way.

[Dai Grepher]

That's how I thought of him too, but I also didn't get his personal quest. So that could be why.

[daveliam]

It's really not that complicated.  Dorian's quest is a play on the whole "bucking family tradition and expectations to be true to yourself" cliché.  The difference is that it's around arranged marriages and producing offspring to secure the family bloodline.  The reason why Dorian isn't interested in this is because he's gay.  So being gay is certainly central to his story.  But his story isn't about being gay.  It's about not living up to your family's expectations. 

[Unpleasant Implications]

As the title says, Dorian gets credit for being the first gay character from Bioware but Sera was homosexual as well and she was in the same game and could actually be recruited before Dorian.
Also Traynor and Steve Cortez in ME3 were homosexual.
So why all the spotlight on Dorian?

Because Dorian's story is so basic and heavily leaning on allegory that I'd be surprised if he didn't get some mention. As for being Bioware's First gay character, I think they simply mean first gay character they want to acknowledge now that they're a triple A studio. No one mentions Traynor and Cortez because that acknowledges ME3, and no one acknowledges Sera because that requires... Acknowledging Sera.

[AresKeith]

Look, it has nothing to do with my opinion. I was just pointing out what the game says. Halward did have a problem with Dorian's sexuality. Dorian says so.

Halward had a problem with Dorian not doing the arranged married which led to him trying to use blood magic

Dorian saw that as his father having a problem with his sexuality, which is understandable

[leaguer of one]

...because he was gay.

If you think that then your not listening. The issue was not that he was gay, even if he was straight their would still be an issue. The issue is that he did not conform to his society. Because he did not want to be force into a marriage he did not want to be in and live the way he wanted to.

[leaguer of one]

But his sexual preference was the cause for not wanting to marry and have children. So it was about his sexual preference.

 

I'm just baffled when people try to downplay that aspect of the storyline. As if recognizing it makes you some sort of hatemonger.

 

If Dorian's only issue were refusing to marry and have children, then his problem would have been no different from Anora's always being badgered to produce an heir. But in that case Halward would not have turned to bloodmagic. He simply would have pestered Dorian or tried to find more suitable women for him. The bloodmagic was meant for the sexual preference. It's like I wrote a while back, the bloodmagic would not have been used to make a homosexual male want to marry and procreate with a woman against his will, it would have been used to make a homosexual male heterosexual.

Not really. The issue would be there if he was straight. He still would of been shunned if he refused the arranged marriage straight or gay. The issue is not that he was gay but that he did not conform. And no the issue was not about getting him a better woman if he was straight. This was an arranged marriage made to make a powerful mage heir. Their would be no change of the woman.

[DuskWanderer]

Not really. The issue would be there if he was straight. He still would of been shunned if he refused the arranged marriage straight or gay. The issue is not that he was gay but that he did not conform. And no the issue was not about getting him a better woman if he was straight. This was an arranged marriage made to make a powerful mage heir. Their would be no change of the woman.

 

No, that's not the case. Dorian makes it abundantly clear he's upset because his father doesn't approve that he "prefers the company of men". Not because Livia is insane or whatever the problem is with her. 

 

It's because he's gay. You might like the storyline, but it was one big after-school special. Just accept it and move on. 

[In Exile]

It's really not that complicated.  Dorian's quest is a play on the whole "bucking family tradition and expectations to be true to yourself" cliché.  The difference is that it's around arranged marriages and producing offspring to secure the family bloodline.  The reason why Dorian isn't interested in this is because he's gay.  So being gay is certainly central to his story.  But his story isn't about being gay.  It's about not living up to your family's expectations. 

 

Let's try to put it this way: if Dorian happened to be bi, but was in love with another man, and wasn't willing to be non-monogamous, then we'd have the same issue. The story is ultimately about his being unwilling to knock up a woman of his family's choice with a future magister baby (or babies). Because I'd wager even if Dorian didn't want to marry, officially, his family would still be more or less OK-ish if he were willing to breed some future Dorians. 

 

Saying Dorian's plot is about him being gay is like saying Sera's friendship arc is about her being a lesbian (because she won't bang Dudequisitors and is super into Qunari ladies). 

[David Gaider]

As the title says, Dorian gets credit for being the first gay character from Bioware but Sera was homosexual as well and she was in the same game and could actually be recruited before Dorian.

Also Traynor and Steve Cortez in ME3 were homosexual.

So why all the spotlight on Dorian?

 

If you're referring to the recent IGN article, you'll note that the author calls Dorian "gaming's breakout gay character". He never calls him BioWare's first (he points out correctly that it is, in fact, Juhani). Why he considers Dorian a breakout character, I believe he explains well enough, but those are his words and not mine. I have never said Dorian was BioWare's first, and I'm not sure where you're reading that he was.

 

As for why Dorian receives the attention, I'm not sure. If you consider one IGN article to be "all the spotlight", I guess it's because the author of the article was interested. He contacted me and asked if he could interview me about Dorian, and I agreed. It's nothing BioWare set up, and we've no need to promote characters in games that were released almost a year ago.

 

I'd love it if someone chose to write something about Sera or Steve or Samantha -- but I'll take someone being interested enough to write about one character than telling them that they're somehow not being "fair" by not writing about them all and refuse.

[Lady Artifice]

If someone must focus on one gay character over the rest, it might as well be Dorian. Because he's splendid. 

[AresKeith]

No, that's not the case. Dorian makes it abundantly clear he's upset because his father doesn't approve that he "prefers the company of men". Not because Livia is insane or whatever the problem is with her. 

 

It's because he's gay. You might like the storyline, but it was one big after-school special. Just accept it and move on. 

 

This guy lol 

[Malthier]

Wow. This really puts in perspective how lesbians are more catered to than gay guys.

 

Ha. No.

 

Lesbians are a common fetish for straight males 

[In Exile]

No, that's not the case. Dorian makes it abundantly clear he's upset because his father doesn't approve that he "prefers the company of men". Not because Livia is insane or whatever the problem is with her. 

 

It's because he's gay. You might like the storyline, but it was one big after-school special. Just accept it and move on. 

 

Yeah, I remember those after-school specials: 

 

 

It's totally like that one. 

[In Exile]

Ha. No.

 

Lesbians are a common fetish for straight males 

 

Not really lesbians, since I understand the fantasy to be that those women will eventually have sex with the dude? 

[andy6915]

You know, I have had more than one female city elf in Dorian's position before. You wake up, it's a double wedding. To a husband. Problem is, you're a lesbian. So now you're stuck in an arranged marriage to a guy you don't want to marry, you barely know, and you cannot even be attracted to him, and neither the elder or your father are giving you a damn choice in the matter no matter how clear you make it that you don't want to. If events hadn't gone down as they had (no kidnapping and no becoming a Grey Warden), she might have slipped out in the middle of the night and never came back.

 

Similar thing can happen to a gay male city elf.

[nightscrawl]

As for why Dorian receives the attention, I'm not sure.

Well part of it are the issues surrounding his personal story and how that resonates with some people. But a huge part is also the character himself, his personality and nuance that makes him so likable as a character, regardless of all the other issues. And Ramon Tikaram; he brings Dorian to life so well, with such a wide range of emotion, that I think makes the character hard to overlook for many people.

 

The game romance factor aside, comparing the two "fully gay" characters in DAI, Sera really doesn't resonate for me -- and I have played through the full friendship arc. I just consider her to be "okay." But with Dorian, even on my first play as a fem Inquisitor, I liked him immediately and that only increased as I got to know him better, both through the friend arc as well as by completing the romance later on with my now-canon character.

 

I think people are really overlooking Dorian, the person, and Dorian, the character when talking about this. He is really great.

[Lebanese Dude]

You know, I have had more than one female city elf in Dorian's position before. You wake up, it's a double wedding. To a husband. Problem is, you're a lesbian. So now you're stuck in an arranged marriage to a guy you don't want to marry, you barely know, and you cannot even be attracted to him, and neither the elder or your father are giving you a damn choice in the matter no matter how clear you make it that you don't want to. If events hadn't gone down as they had (no kidnapping and no becoming a Grey Warden), she might have slipped out in the middle of the night and never came back.

 

Similar thing can happen to a gay male city elf.

 

True!

 

I think people are talking about NPCs though.

[Lebanese Dude]

Just accept it and move on. 

 

Describe why it's an after-school special. Use specific reasons please.

[In Exile]

Describe why it's an after-school special. Use specific reasons please.

 

You mean your school didn't have a "What to do when your aristocratic slaver father with magical powers is dissapointed because you don't want to breed the ubermensch?" special? That's just ridiculous.