204 réponses à ce sujet

[WildOrchid]

It isn't me vs. the ex lead writer. It's the canon vs. the ex lead writer. And in that case the canon wins.

 

LOL

[Dai Grepher]

@daveliam That's your opinion.

[Lady Artifice]

Didn't write that Halward was homophobic.

 

Even if that were true, the fact that Halward disapproves of Dorian's sexuality at all means he has a problem with it. If this had only been about Dorian doing his duty, then that would have been the focus of the story, not his preferring the company of men.

 

You're citing an extreme example. Of course Halward doesn't compare to that, but it doesn't mean he still didn't have a problem with Dorian's homosexuality.
 

Didn't write it was solely about homosexuality.

 

What just about everyone has been explaining to you, including the writer who created this part of the canon, is that it is the focus of the story. Dorian could have very easily done as was expected of him, and entered into a traditional marriage. He chose not to do so. Halward concern didn't revolve around his son's homosexuality, but a symptom of his son's sense of integrity. Dorian wouldn't enter into a sham for the sake of an institution (Noble Tevinter society) that he generally disapproves of. 

 

This isn't just a matter of opinion, this is part of the canon. 

[prosthetic soul]

The lore master posted in the thread!  Oh **** son!  Why can't he do that more often? 

[Kakistos_]

From the conversation between Dorian and his father I got the impression that Dorian's sexuality was a point of contention. Not the only one but the catalyst, the last straw that led Halward to consider the Blood Magic Ritual. On this I think that Dai Grepher has a point. Dorian's words "I prefer the company of men. My father disapproves." strongly suggest that had Dorian been attracted to women the situation would have been different.

 

It is implied that the point of the Blood Magic Ritual was to change Dorian's sexuality. "You tried to change me." Change can be anything, we were not there, but the context again points to sexuality in stead of changing Dorian to be more obedient. If not that what was the Ritual meant to change?The clear real world parallel to Dorian's experience is gay conversion therapy. I can think of nothing else that applies without delving into uber orthodox religions. Or is this perhaps Dorian's interpretation of events without full background knowledge?

[Dai Grepher]

What just about everyone has been explaining to you, including the writer who created this part of the canon, is that it is the focus of the story. Dorian could have very easily done as was expected of him, and entered into a traditional marriage. He chose not to do so. Halward concern didn't revolve around his son's homosexuality, but a symptom of his son's sense of integrity. Dorian wouldn't enter into a sham for the sake of an institution (Noble Tevinter society) that he generally disapproves of. 

 

This isn't just a matter of opinion, this is part of the canon. 

 

That was not the focus of the story. You're just plain wrong. You simply don't get it.

 

Dorian clearly says his father disapproves of him preferring the company of men. There are other quotes too, like back at Skyhold before the mission you can ask something like, "Because you refused to marry? Because you left?" And Dorian will say, "That too."

 

And thanks to Kakistos_ for understanding.

[Lady Artifice]

That was not the focus of the story. You're just plain wrong. You simply don't get it.

 

Dorian clearly says his father disapproves of him preferring the company of men. There are other quotes too, like back at Skyhold before the mission you can ask something like, "Because you refused to marry? Because you left?" And Dorian will say, "That too."

 

And thanks to Kakistos_ for understanding.

 

That's exactly what he says. "That too." 

 

This story arc defies the over simplification you're insisting it must conform to. You refuse to entertain the possibility of nuance, but that was exactly the intent behind the writing. If you ignore that intent, that makes you the one arguing against canon. 

[AresKeith]

It isn't me vs. the ex lead writer. It's the canon vs. the ex lead writer. And in that case the canon wins.

 

 

[Aren]

 

 

you really like this men  uh?

[Dai Grepher]

That's exactly what he says. "That too." 

 

This story arc defies the over simplification you're insisting it must conform to. You refuse to entertain the possibility of nuance, but that was exactly the intent behind the writing. If you ignore that intent, that makes you the one arguing against canon. 

 

That too, as in, not the first thing he thought of. As in, an afterthought. As in, not a thought at all until the Inquisitor asked about it. As in, the reason Dorian was thinking of was his sexuality.

 

You are denying that there is no nuance here. Halward disapproved of homosexuality, which is seen as deviant and abhorrent among Tevinter ruling class.

 

Anyway, this is all I have to write on this subject. I will read any replies made to me, but I won't be posting in this topic anymore. I think I've proven this point and I can't make people acknowledge the truth, so it's done.
 

[AlanC9]

Wait..... you say people aren't listening to your points?

[Aren]

Because he's David Gaider's personal in-game surrogate.

The ultimate state of evil.

[Donk]

From the conversation between Dorian and his father I got the impression that Dorian's sexuality was a point of contention. Not the only one but the catalyst, the last straw that led Halward to consider the Blood Magic Ritual. On this I think that Dai Grepher has a point. Dorian's words "I prefer the company of men. My father disapproves." strongly suggest that had Dorian been attracted to women the situation would have been different.

It is implied that the point of the Blood Magic Ritual was to change Dorian's sexuality. "You tried to change me." Change can be anything, we were not there, but the context again points to sexuality in stead of changing Dorian to be more obedient. If not that what was the Ritual meant to change?The clear real world parallel to Dorian's experience is gay conversion therapy. I can think of nothing else that applies without delving into uber orthodox religions. Or is this perhaps Dorian's interpretation of events without full background knowledge?

Not necessarily.

The question to ask here, is if he was attracted to women, would he choose a woman based on his father's ideals of superior Tevinter genetics, or would he pick one of his own accord, I.e love?

Of course, this question cannot be answered because he is a gay character.

I think the correct answer here is that both sides of the argument are right to a certain degree. Homosexuality does play into the story, but it isn't the sole reason why he is having daddy issues.

[Andraste_Reborn]

Given Dorian's taste in men, I'm not sure Halward would have ended up any happier if he'd been straight. I mean, who's to say Dorian still wouldn't have fallen for a buff Qunari spy ...?

 

(Or the Inquisitor. I like to imagine Dorian writing a note home after the reconciliation: 'Dear Father, good news! I am finally having sex with a powerful mage! Of course, he's a male qunari, so I'm not sure we'll be producing any magelets, but anything's possible with the sky ripped open.')

[Dieb]

I think the correct answer here is that both sides of the argument are right to a certain degree. Homosexuality does play into the story, but it isn't the sole reason why he is having daddy issues.

 

You know, as uninformed and naive as it may sound, but just to make a complete arse out of myself:

I think the fact that dealing with your family's perception of your sexual orientation is something a lot of gay (male?) players can relate to, and may even be thankful for to be represented and adressed as well.

 

Sure, it's a slippery slope into clichée ville, but pretending like this wouldn't be harsh reality for many today -at least minus the blood magic hopefully- is just as ignorant as solely  focusing on it would be pandering, crappy writing. We get to relive stylized, fantastical versions of experiences we've had in our lives and thus can relate to, process or relive maybe, in all BW games. Sibling feuds, breakups, death, friendships, loss, relationships etc.

 

So why shouldn't that be an equally valid entry of this notion? All narrative is there to be enjoyed and more so, experienced. I personally feel like we're putting the basic idea of his story being about it at all  in a very undeserved, bad corner here.

[daveliam]

You know, as uninformed and naive as it may sound, but just to make a complete arse out of myself:

I think the fact that dealing with your family's perception of your sexual orientation is something a lot of gay (male?) players can relate to, and may even be thankful for to be represented and adressed as well.

 

Sure, it's a slippery slope into clichée ville, but pretending like this wouldn't be harsh reality for many today -at least minus the blood magic hopefully- is just as ignorant as solely  focusing on it would be pandering, crappy writing. We get to relive stylized, fantastical versions of experiences we've had in our lives and thus can relate to, process or relive maybe, in all BW games. Sibling feuds, breakups, death, friendships, loss, relationships etc.

 

So why shouldn't that be an equally valid entry of this notion? All narrative is there to be enjoyed and more so, experienced. I personally feel like we're putting the basic idea of his story being about it at all  in a very undeserved, bad corner here.

 

I agree totally with this.  Yes, the "my family won't accept me for who I am" storyline is terribly cliche for gay stories.  But not really in video games.  It's the low hanging fruit, story-wise, so I can see why it's an easy 'go-to' option for the first gay male character in the series.  If they continue to dip into those waters going forward, I'll certainly side-eye.  Plus, as has been stated numerous times throughout this conversation, the twist on the story this time around is that it's really about a character who has disappointed his father because he won't do his duty to family, which is grounded thoroughly in the lore, and how that son feels betrayed by his father's attempts to force him to 'do his duty'.  It's definitely more nuanced than just 'My father doesn't like my sexuality and I feel betrayed'.

 

I guess my point is that Dorian's story might be cliche, but cliches exist for a reason:  they are often related to experiences that many people can relate to, which is why so many authors turn to them to tell their stories.  I don't think that this means that all gay characters' stories will be cliche around sexuality, though.  I mean, look at the story arcs for the gay characters

 

Juhani - redemption from falling to the dark side and further attempts to keep from falling back to it because of revenge (cliche, but not sexuality based)

Samantha - typical awkward nerd storyline (cliche, but not really focused on her sexuality)

Steve - getting over the death of a spouse (cliche, but not specific to his sexuality)

Sera - Robin Hood-esque revenge on nobles; prankster (not really cliche and not focused on her sexuality)

Dorian - failing to live up to the expectations of your family; betrayal because they don't accept you (cliche and somewhat related to his sexuality)

 

I'm confident that they will continue to find ways to write gay characters that are all different.

[Donk]

You know, as uninformed and naive as it may sound, but just to make a complete arse out of myself:

I think the fact that dealing with your family's perception of your sexual orientation is something a lot of gay (male?) players can relate to, and may even be thankful for to be represented and adressed as well.

Sure, it's a slippery slope into clichée ville, but pretending like this wouldn't be harsh reality for many today -at least minus the blood magic hopefully- is just as ignorant as solely focusing on it would be pandering, crappy writing. We get to relive stylized, fantastical versions of experiences we've had in our lives and thus can relate to, process or relive maybe, in all BW games. Sibling feuds, breakups, death, friendships, loss, relationships etc.

So why shouldn't that be an equally valid entry of this notion? All narrative is there to be enjoyed and more so, experienced. I personally feel like we're putting the basic idea of his story being about it at all in a very undeserved, bad corner here.

Well said.

When you look at fictional settings in any form of media or art, be it books, games, movies, it always incorporates themes that occur Irl.

You know what got me hooked on Battlestar Galactica? The political situation that occurred within a floating prison ship. While I hate politics in general I am a little ashamed to admit that I could understand and identify with the anarchist type attitude that was portrayed even if the intent was far from "moral" or "right".

What they have done in Dorian's case was create a scenario that is relative to what gay men and even lesbians have had to deal with often, but added more to the story so it wasn't purely about being a homosexual, though it was a major factor.

[Serelir]

While it would be lovely if a coming out/parental disapproval story had become such a cliché that it had already been done a hundred times in videogames, many people are still dealing with this issue in their lives. It's relevant for a lot of players, and it's completely optional for those who've been there, done that or just don't care.

 

I get it that many people want a gay character whose story doesn't revolve around how his gender preference exacerbates family conflict, but I'm curious about how many straight characters' sexuality is a major part of their stories in videogames. I'm wondering if we just don't notice it because we take it for granted, or if sexuality+parental disapproval of partner choice simply isn't an intrinsic part of straight people's lives. Any Romeo and Juliet stories in RPGs?

[Lady Artifice]

That too, as in, not the first thing he thought of. As in, an afterthought. As in, not a thought at all until the Inquisitor asked about it. As in, the reason Dorian was thinking of was his sexuality.

 

Yes, as in, more than one aspect to the story. 

 

 

You are denying that there is no nuance here. Halward disapproved of homosexuality, which is seen as deviant and abhorrent among Tevinter ruling class.

 

 

Precisely. I am insisting there is nuance here. Nuance that we've established is discussed within the story itself. 

 

 

Anyway, this is all I have to write on this subject. I will read any replies made to me, but I won't be posting in this topic anymore. I think I've proven this point and I can't make people acknowledge the truth, so it's done.

 

 

Okay. 

[Sifr]

That too, as in, not the first thing he thought of. As in, an afterthought. As in, not a thought at all until the Inquisitor asked about it. As in, the reason Dorian was thinking of was his sexuality.

 

You are denying that there is no nuance here. Halward disapproved of homosexuality, which is seen as deviant and abhorrent among Tevinter ruling class.

 

Anyway, this is all I have to write on this subject. I will read any replies made to me, but I won't be posting in this topic anymore. I think I've proven this point and I can't make people acknowledge the truth, so it's done.

 

You seem to suggest that Halward's sole issue of contention is that he's homophobic, when it's never made clear one way or another if he is.

 

If Tevinter truly believe that homosexuality was that deviant and abhorrent, they would have criminalised it within their country, but they clearly haven't. Instead, it's treated as more of a taboo they tolerate under the condition that it has to remain behind closed doors and the illusion of heterosexuality must be maintained in public.

 

One interpretation of Dorian's personal quest suggests is that rather than disapproving of his choice of sexual partners, the issue between father and son is more about how Dorian refuses to play the game and maintain the fiction that is demanded of him by their society.

 

Even Halward knows that trying to change his son via blood magic was going too far, he admits he was wrong and that both he and his wife truly love their son, which implies that Dorian's sexuality doesn't bother them all that much. Rather, it suggests that Halward was frustrated after trying and failing to convince Dorian to enter into a sham marriage with various women they picked (which Dorian alludes to), causing him to a moment of desperation consider doing something utterly horrible.

 

We don't actually know how far the plan even went... could be that Halward ultimately decided against doing it, but when Dorian found out, even the idea that his father had thought of doing that to him was enough to shatter the trust and drive the wedge between them?

[Kakistos_]

Not necessarily.

The question to ask here, is if he was attracted to women, would he choose a woman based on his father's ideals of superior Tevinter genetics, or would he pick one of his own accord, I.e love?

Of course, this question cannot be answered because he is a gay character.

I think the correct answer here is that both sides of the argument are right to a certain degree. Homosexuality does play into the story, but it isn't the sole reason why he is having daddy issues.

I agree. There is no doubt that Dorian and Halward would have still had issues regardless of Dorian's sexuality. I would argue that Dorian's sexuality and Halward's disapproval thereof was the feather that tipped the scale. The conversation between the two implied heavily that Dorian's attraction to men was at the forefront of their rift and that is was that aspect of Dorian that Halward wanted to change with the Blood Magic Ritual.

 

If Dorian had been attracted to women what then would Halward have to change? As we know there is no Ritual required for Blood Mages to control minds so making Dorian marry and conceive an heir was not Halward's plan, he clearly wanted something permanent. The way I see it there were a combination of three things that we know of that caused Dorian to clash with his parents: his unwillingness to toe the line for the sake of the family legacy, his promiscuity, and that men were the focus of the latter.

 

I do not think that Dorian's parents had a severe issue with his sexual focus but for scandal and the political climate. If he had just married, as he stated he refused to, then they probably wouldn't have cared what he did in private. I think that Dorian still would have left home with a rift between he and his parents but when if comes to the subject of the blood Magic Ritual Dorian's sexuality was the catalyst for that situation, bringing the conflict between he and his father to a head.

[Dean_the_Young]

This story arc defies the over simplification you're insisting it must conform to. You refuse to entertain the possibility of nuance, but that was exactly the intent behind the writing. If you ignore that intent, that makes you the one arguing against canon. 

 

Without agreeing with your opponent, I will disagree here- I don't think authorial intent alone is 'canon' in the sense of how a presented story gets interpreted.

 

I myself have raised in the past that the impression I got from Dorian's arc was that it was more about sexuality than social obligation. I don't raise the point much, because it doesn't bother me much on any level, but when I played through it I read and experienced it more as an allegory for 'cure the gay' than 'I don't care if you're gay as long as you pretend.' Maybe it was the dialogue I picked, maybe it was the perspective I brought to it, but I felt it was more the former than the later.

 

Is my interpretation wrong simply because Gaider has indicated he intended it to be the later?

 

I'd say no, because what a writer intends is not always what a writer actually conveys. The reasons could be anything, and not simply 'bad writing'- it could be a reflection of the different perspective Gaider brings with the peace, it could be the particular dialogue options chosen, or the inflection that was read. It could simply be the nature of the themes and what my personal experience and exposure to IRL issues brings to mind to me, as opposed to what Gaider's brings to Gaider. A good story always brings a bit of the audience into it- but the cost of it is that the author loses control of the story's meaning once it's released. Good writing could/should evoke certain thoughts and feelings, but no writing can perfectly dictate impressions.

 

To say that there was no element of 'fake it for society' in the story would be wrong, because it does get brought up at least by Dorian. That factoid is canon. But to say that's the only, or even the dominant, idea? That the sexuality itself didn't/wasn't an issue? If someone can look at the same story, and reasonably take away that meaning as the bigger theme, it's hard to argue you're arguing against canon just because you disagree with 'intent.'

 

 

Edit for additional thoughts-

 

If Gaider intended for the scene/story to be taken along the lines of 'it was about going along with appearances,' that's certainly good to know and consider- but how well/how successfully he did that would be a part of the assessment of the scene itself. For someone like me, who didn't get the 'intended' message, it might be worth considering 'why' I didn't- what made the scene stick out for me one way but not another?

 

If Gaider cared about one internet stranger's highly personal opinion (and, let's be frank, I'm as much a schmuck as the next person), what I'd point out is a specific line that stuck with me- something along the lines (forgive if my memory is wrong) of when Dorian confronted his father about the blood magic and said 'you tried to change me.'

 

To me, that was a very powerful line- great with emotion, amazing facial expression, perfectly sincere... and it was completely, utterly about the sexuality rather than the political circumstance. It was such a powerful line, that to me it overshadows everything else about the conflict- Dorian can more composedly talk about 'going along with it' later, but it pales in comparison to this moment.

 

To me, this line 'you tried to change me' was the cornerstone of the confrontation... which, if I defined the confrontation to a single issue, was that line. You could say that Gaider's 'mistake' was having the wrong line be written (and acted) too well. But with a strong impact comes strong ties- what pops to mind when I heard 'you tried to change me' in the context of blood magic isn't 'you did it for appearances,' but the horrific shock/horror stories of 'gay conversion therapy' to 'fix the gay.' It's an involuntary, coerced, and fundamental change expected to be permanent.

 

If the authorial intent was to emphasize the 'going along with the appearances'- that the homosexuality itself wasn't the issue- then the line would have been better served with something less permanent and fundamental. A superficial change to provide that superficial cover if it was 'just' pretending- still horrible and involuntary, but not fundamental.

 

Instead of 'you tried to change me', a fundamental alteration, something like 'you tried to force me.' A temporary action.

 

Imagine a hypothetical change of the scenario: Dorian's father doesn't resort to blood magic to change Dorian's sexuality. Dorian's father resorts to blood magic to try and force Dorian to have sex or get married against his will, so that Dorian is forced to assume that mask of social acceptability. As soon as it's done, Dorian's sexuality isn't the issue anymore- the pretense is there, even if Dorian has lovers on the side and he hates his wife.

 

That's not soft-peddling the issue- that's violation of consent, rape, mind control, and the betrayal of expectations and respect Dorian has for his Father. It's also a scenario that clearly focuses on the political, rather than sexuality, nature of the issue.

 

But that's not the story Gaider wrote. And that's fine. I believe Gaider once mentioned that writing Dorian's story was an exorcism on his own part of past experiences, and that's perfectly legitimate. I'm not trying to demean it in the least when I say that I can feel a writer's emotion behind the piece. I still think it's a powerful piece. I like Dorian's story.

 

I just think that it's more about Dorian's sexuality and less about the role of appearances, because that's where I felt the weight and focus of attention was. Even if Gaider didn't intend for that to be the take-away impression.

 

 

[/respectful, hopefully articulate, dissent]

[Il Divo]

Without agreeing with your opponent, I will disagree here- I don't think authorial intent alone is 'canon' in the sense of how a presented story gets interpreted.

 

 

Is my interpretation wrong simply because Gaider has indicated he intended it to be the later?

 

 

Without waying in too heavily on this, there's a South Park Episode that immediately springs to mind where the kids read Catcher in the Rye and, deciding that it's not vulgar enough, write their own story designed to be as profane as humanly possible. It's instantly hailed as a classic with everyone assigning their own political interpretations/intent to the author, despite the original purpose being just to write a really graphic story.

 

Regardless, this is a lot of the time why I try to describe any piece of work in terms of the impact it has on me, rather than assigning motive to the writer.

[Lady Artifice]

Without agreeing with your opponent, I will disagree here- I don't think authorial intent alone is 'canon' in the sense of how a presented story gets interpreted.

 

I myself have raised in the past that the impression I got from Dorian's arc was that it was more about sexuality than social obligation. I don't raise the point much, because it doesn't bother me much on any level, but when I played through it I read and experienced it more as an allegory for 'cure the gay' than 'I don't care if you're gay as long as you pretend.' Maybe it was the dialogue I picked, maybe it was the perspective I brought to it, but I felt it was more the former than the later.

 

Is my interpretation wrong simply because Gaider has indicated he intended it to be the later?

 

I'd say no, because what a writer intends is not always what a writer actually conveys. The reasons could be anything, and not simply 'bad writing'- it could be a reflection of the different perspective Gaider brings with the peace, it could be the particular dialogue options chosen, or the inflection that was read. It could simply be the nature of the themes and what my personal experience and exposure to IRL issues brings to mind to me, as opposed to what Gaider's brings to Gaider. A good story always brings a bit of the audience into it- but the cost of it is that the author loses control of the story's meaning once it's released. Good writing could/should evoke certain thoughts and feelings, but no writing can perfectly dictate impressions.

 

To say that there was no element of 'fake it for society' in the story would be wrong, because it does get brought up at least by Dorian. That factoid is canon. But to say that's the only, or even the dominant, idea? That the sexuality itself didn't/wasn't an issue? If someone can look at the same story, and reasonably take away that meaning as the bigger theme, it's hard to argue you're arguing against canon just because you disagree with 'intent.'

 

 

Edit for additional thoughts-

 

If Gaider intended for the scene/story to be taken along the lines of 'it was about going along with appearances,' that's certainly good to know and consider- but how well/how successfully he did that would be a part of the assessment of the scene itself. For someone like me, who didn't get the 'intended' message, it might be worth considering 'why' I didn't- what made the scene stick out for me one way but not another?

 

If Gaider cared about one internet stranger's highly personal opinion (and, let's be frank, I'm as much a schmuck as the next person), what I'd point out is a specific line that stuck with me- something along the lines (forgive if my memory is wrong) of when Dorian confronted his father about the blood magic and said 'you tried to change me.'

 

To me, that was a very powerful line- great with emotion, amazing facial expression, perfectly sincere... and it was completely, utterly about the sexuality rather than the political circumstance. It was such a powerful line, that to me it overshadows everything else about the conflict- Dorian can more composedly talk about 'going along with it' later, but it pales in comparison to this moment.

 

To me, this line 'you tried to change me' was the cornerstone of the confrontation... which, if I defined the confrontation to a single issue, was that line. You could say that Gaider's 'mistake' was having the wrong line be written (and acted) too well. But with a strong impact comes strong ties- what pops to mind when I heard 'you tried to change me' in the context of blood magic isn't 'you did it for appearances,' but the horrific shock/horror stories of 'gay conversion therapy' to 'fix the gay.' It's an involuntary, coerced, and fundamental change expected to be permanent.

 

If the authorial intent was to emphasize the 'going along with the appearances'- that the homosexuality itself wasn't the issue- then the line would have been better served with something less permanent and fundamental. A superficial change to provide that superficial cover if it was 'just' pretending- still horrible and involuntary, but not fundamental.

 

Instead of 'you tried to change me', a fundamental alteration, something like 'you tried to force me.' A temporary action.

 

Imagine a hypothetical change of the scenario: Dorian's father doesn't resort to blood magic to change Dorian's sexuality. Dorian's father resorts to blood magic to try and force Dorian to have sex or get married against his will, so that Dorian is forced to assume that mask of social acceptability. As soon as it's done, Dorian's sexuality isn't the issue anymore- the pretense is there, even if Dorian has lovers on the side and he hates his wife.

 

That's not soft-peddling the issue- that's violation of consent, rape, mind control, and the betrayal of expectations and respect Dorian has for his Father. It's also a scenario that clearly focuses on the political, rather than sexuality, nature of the issue.

 

But that's not the story Gaider wrote. And that's fine. I believe Gaider once mentioned that writing Dorian's story was an exorcism on his own part of past experiences, and that's perfectly legitimate. I'm not trying to demean it in the least when I say that I can feel a writer's emotion behind the piece. I still think it's a powerful piece. I like Dorian's story.

 

I just think that it's more about Dorian's sexuality and less about the role of appearances, because that's where I felt the weight and focus of attention was. Even if Gaider didn't intend for that to be the take-away impression.

 

 

[/respectful, hopefully articulate, dissent]

 

When it comes down to it, I don't there is that much dissension between our perspectives. I don't take issue with this story arc being read as an allegory for practice of "curing gayness." I also absolutely don't deny that a writer's intent isn't, and shouldn't be, the only factor in interpreting their work. Dorian's sexuality does play a part in his story, and I don't think there's any reasonable way to contest that. As daveliam said, "Being gay is certainly central to his story, but it isn't about being gay. It's about not living up to your family's expectations." 

 

What I do take issue with, is the oversimplification of this story arc as a preachy "after school special," as it is so often called. I think that's a case of seeing a central aspect, and fixating on it beyond reason. 

 

What I believe Dai Grepher is refusing to acknowledge when he says that homosexuality "is seen as deviant and abhorrent among the Tevinter ruling class" is that, as I understand it, homosexuality is an accepted practiced amongst the Tevinter ruling class. With their slaves. I find myself doubtful that, had Dorian been willing to carry on a charade for the sake of appearances while also carrying on his own romantic interests, his father would have had any reason to act. 

 

I don't believe this situation is entirely about sexuality or about social obligation because I perceive considerable elements of both, and thus nuance, which is really all I'm arguing--that this scenario--specifically Halward's motivation--wasn't a simple one. I don't believe that this precludes the interpretation that the dramatic aspects of the scene in question are focused on Dorian's sexuality.

 

I also happen to hold the view that if Dorian were straight, he would have still found himself at odds with his social obligations, his parents, and Tevinter society. Admittedly, the last part is my personal interpretation of his character. I believe he's a person of innate integrity and willfulness, and that he would have still found himself and his father in opposition sooner or later. That's my take on the story, and I don't believe it's entirely incompatible with yours. Because while you believe that sexuality is an extremely dominant focus and theme (I don't disagree), I haven't seen you dismiss the in story dialogue that Halward was motivation by his desire for a legacy as much as anything else.