63 réponses à ce sujet

[goofyomnivore]

I dunno Alpha Centauri shits on Beyond Earth in every possible way except graphics. I have no idea how they made such a poor spiritual successor.

[o Ventus]

As somebody who played a Paladin in WoW since vanilla, DPS and tanking were not roles that Blizzard supported for us until after the Horde got them. We just had really strong buffs and cleanse which is what gave us the advantage in PvE. Shamans on the other hand were stronger in PvP.

 

Whether it was good or not isn't the point, the point is that those tools were available at all, while the other faction doesn't have any access to it. IIRC, Horde also actually had less zones to quest in compared to the Alliance in vanilla.

 

Vanilla had a lot of problems that the newer expansions don't have, but the community element was strong because there was no cross server stuff which to me was the strong point of MMOs. TBC fixed up a lot of issues while still retaining the community, and while WotLK was great it introduced the group finder which was the end of community. Ever since Cataclysm, I personally feel like the game has been going downhill. Though I'm not going to be stupid enough to claim that it's "dying". It will be around for a long time, even with the somewhat recent massive drop in subscribers.

 

The group finder tools didn't do anything to damage the community, people being lazy and people being pieces of garbage to each other damaged the community. Even back before the LFD/LFR/LFG were implemented, you would always have people spamming trade chat talking about irrelevant nonsensical idiocy or insulting each other, and God forbid you join a PUG with a bad leader or a leader who was having a bad day, because if you screwed anything up you would be effectively blacklisted if that leader had any friends, because he would tell them all not to recruit you. I didn't get my own account until Wrath was released, but my brother did let me play on one of his characters for a few days to see what the game was like, and even in that short time I saw such poor behavior in just about every activity, from group questing to PvP to dungeons. I still vividly remember getting into a group for Halls of Stone, only the other 4 players were all in a guild together and decided to be complete f***ing ***holes the entire run through, slowly RP walking through the entire dungeon and stealing loot and generally being bad. I didn't really mind it at first because it was a PUG and there were 4 of them, but after spending an hour getting through 1/3 of what would otherwise be a 20 minute dungeon, I just left.

 

I would rather have no community than a community made of people whose fingers I would like to break so I don't have to see their stupid s**t while I play.

[o Ventus]

Does it occur to you that some people might truly enjoy the experience offered by older games as opposed to newer games?

You're well aware that I never stated that liking older games was a problem, right? Because you seem to be getting a bit defensive with this.

[Cyonan]

Whether it was good or not isn't the point, the point is that those tools were available at all, while the other faction doesn't have any access to it. IIRC, Horde also actually had less zones to quest in compared to the Alliance in vanilla.

 

The thing is that we didn't have the tools to tank, and any time we got creative about it they nerfed it so we couldn't. It wasn't until BC that Paladins started getting proper tanking tools.

 

The group finder tools didn't do anything to damage the community, people being lazy and people being pieces of garbage to each other damaged the community. Even back before the LFD/LFR/LFG were implemented, you would always have people spamming trade chat talking about irrelevant nonsensical idiocy or insulting each other, and God forbid you join a PUG with a bad leader or a leader who was having a bad day, because if you screwed anything up you would be effectively blacklisted if that leader had any friends, because he would tell them all not to recruit you. I didn't get my own account until Wrath was released, but my brother did let me play on one of his characters for a few days to see what the game was like, and even in that short time I saw such poor behavior in just about every activity, from group questing to PvP to dungeons. I still vividly remember getting into a group for Halls of Stone, only the other 4 players were all in a guild together and decided to be complete f***ing ***holes the entire run through, slowly RP walking through the entire dungeon and stealing loot and generally being bad. I didn't really mind it at first because it was a PUG and there were 4 of them, but after spending an hour getting through 1/3 of what would otherwise be a 20 minute dungeon, I just left.

 

I would rather have no community than a community made of people whose fingers I would like to break so I don't have to see their stupid s**t while I play.

 

The community I had and the pugs I got on my server back in Vanilla were a lot better. People who did dickish things like that got blacklisted from the rest of the community.

 

It died when they implemented cross server, and it never solved those issues anyway. People still go around stealing loot and being jerks, even more so than they did before cross server was a thing.

 

PvP is the only thing that has had a consistently bad community in my experience. Even then, it was pretty fun having a rivalry with a Troll Mage from my server and having a duel every time we kept running into each other or running into the local High Warlord in a BG and besting him in a 1v1.

 

Those are things you just don't get with cross realm.

[Torgette]

I think the problem is that people like sameness and familiarity when it comes to IP's, but at the same time people who actually make games love to experiment and improve on ideas. What a gamer might consider an all-time great design choice might be a stepping stone to the person who actually made it (and they may not want to revisit it). The other problem is that new games generally don't sell as well, if you made game X and it sold well and want game Y to be even more impressive in design - you're going to have to keep it in the same IP, so the designers compromise on old/new concepts and either people love the changes or they nag the designers for years that it isn't the same. The you have the problem that a lot of the people who worked on games 20 years ago aren't in the business anymore, ie: Gunpei Yokoi - creator of Metroid - passed away after a car accident in the 90's, gamers can whine all they want about wanting another great 2d metroid just like the old ones but what you're really asking for is an imitation.

 

One reason indie games are great vectors for ideas is because the game designers can do whatever they want.

[DEUGH Man]

People like what they like, and they want more. It's as simple as that. A game being good doesn't overshadow the disappointment that they will never experience the same experience they loved again for some people.

[o Ventus]

 

It died when they implemented cross server, and it never solved those issues anyway. People still go around stealing loot and being jerks, even more so than they did before cross server was a thing.

 

PvP is the only thing that has had a consistently bad community in my experience. Even then, it was pretty fun having a rivalry with a Troll Mage from my server and having a duel every time we kept running into each other or running into the local High Warlord in a BG and besting him in a 1v1.

 

Those are things you just don't get with cross realm.

 

They are only jerks in low level dungeons, which for some reason don't have loot ninja protection and still use the need before greed rolls. The Warlords questing and dungeons are better because it uses personal loot. Speaking of personal loot, personal loot is actually a good system now and doesn't screw people over like it would do in Mists and the earlier days of Warlords.

 

I detested PvP, but that's more because of lolbalance than anything having to do with people. Back when I did PvP, if you were any other class besides a Frost Mage, Resto Druid, or Feral Druid, you may as well just quit because you weren't going to win. Frost and Feral because Frost would keep you locked down and CC'd for the entire match (annoying when you're an DK and have no mobility abilities) and Feral would constantly break your own CC because shape shifting broke CC (I think it still does) and mow you down with their DoTs that scaled tremendously with AP. Resto Druids were pretty much immortal with their heals and CC breaking if you couldn't make them burn their mana (but by the time that happened, the rest of their team had respawned and was coming to kill you).

[Johnnie Walker]

*busts out the N64*

 

Sue me.

[o Ventus]

*busts out the N64*

 

Sue me.

 

The N64 had some pretty good games on it. I always love to put on Pokemon Stadium. The mini games were more fun than the main battles.

[Cyonan]

They are only jerks in low level dungeons, which for some reason don't have loot ninja protection and still use the need before greed rolls. The Warlords questing and dungeons are better because it uses personal loot. Speaking of personal loot, personal loot is actually a good system now and doesn't screw people over like it would do in Mists and the earlier days of Warlords.

 

I detested PvP, but that's more because of lolbalance than anything having to do with people. Back when I did PvP, if you were any other class besides a Frost Mage, Resto Druid, or Feral Druid, you may as well just quit because you weren't going to win.

 

Well I'm not saying there hasn't been improvements, although I don't care for the Diablo style of loot they moved to in Warlords where stats are randomized on pretty much everything.

 

However it's a bit silly to dismiss those who liked vanilla as simply being "nostalgic". To me it felt more like a living world with a community in it, where as now it feels more like sitting in your garrison waiting for a queue.

 

It wasn't perfect, but it did do some things better.

[o Ventus]

Well I'm not saying there hasn't been improvements, although I don't care for the Diablo style of loot they moved to in Warlords where stats are randomized on pretty much everything.

 

However it's a bit silly to dismiss those who liked vanilla as simply being "nostalgic". To me it felt more like a living world with a community in it, where as now it feels more like sitting in your garrison waiting for a queue.

 

It wasn't perfect, but it did do some things better.

 

Never once did I ever say in any post that liking vanilla was bad, or that liking it was up to nostalgia. This thread is aimed at the people who blindly worship it (and older games in particular franchises) and blindly hate Cataclysm, Mists, Warlords, or any other part of the game that wasn't in vanilla or TBC, because it wasn't in vanilla or TBC.

 

It's like people are seeing the words "vanilla" or whatever other older game I typed, and "nostalgia", performing some mental gymnastics, and jumping to some stupid conclusion. In the very same thread where I say that the older games are good and have a lot of merit.

[Torgette]

*busts out the N64*

 

Sue me.

 

N64 4 lyfe

[Cyonan]

Never once did I ever say in any post that liking vanilla was bad, or that liking it was up to nostalgia. This thread is aimed at the people who blindly worship it (and older games in particular franchises) and blindly hate Cataclysm, Mists, Warlords, or any other part of the game that wasn't in vanilla or TBC, because it wasn't in vanilla or TBC.

 

It's like people are seeing the words "vanilla" or whatever other older game I typed, and "nostalgia", performing some mental gymnastics, and jumping to some stupid conclusion. In the very same thread where I say that the older games are good and have a lot of merit.

 

"It's simple nostalgia, when the nostalgia goggles are taken off, we can see just how bad vanilla was *as a game* compared to, say, WotLK or Mists. And since it's nostalgia, everyone's memories are based on appealing to their emotions and what made them feel good. Hitting level 60 in vanilla *felt* like an accomplishment to them. Raiding *felt* epic due to the 40 player count. PvP battles *felt* huge and engaging. Regardless of however they *felt*, they are not any of these things. The game as it was back then was a broken mess that would score heinously low marks if it was released today.".

 

I wonder how I could have possibly thought that you were saying thinking Vanilla is better over newer expansions means you're just nostalgic.

 

You've said older games in general are good and that the early WoW expansions had some merit, but you've done pretty much nothing but hate on vanilla WoW after that despite admitting that you didn't own an account pre-WotLK and only played it for a few days.

 

Also, Cataclysm deserves a lot of that hate =P

[Voxr]

Get outta here with that N64 b.s. Johnnie.

Dreamcast lyfe all day errday!

[o Ventus]

"It's simple nostalgia, when the nostalgia goggles are taken off, we can see just how bad vanilla was *as a game* compared to, say, WotLK or Mists. And since it's nostalgia, everyone's memories are based on appealing to their emotions and what made them feel good. Hitting level 60 in vanilla *felt* like an accomplishment to them. Raiding *felt* epic due to the 40 player count. PvP battles *felt* huge and engaging. Regardless of however they *felt*, they are not any of these things. The game as it was back then was a broken mess that would score heinously low marks if it was released today.".

 

I wonder how I could have possibly thought that you were saying thinking Vanilla is better over newer expansions means you're just nostalgic.

 

You've said older games in general are good and that the early WoW expansions had some merit, but you've done pretty much nothing but hate on vanilla WoW after that despite admitting that you didn't own an account pre-WotLK and only played it for a few days.

 

Also, Cataclysm deserves a lot of that hate =P

 

The crux of my of thread is that blind nostalgia is bad, and that these older games that people mindlessly praise still have flaws -- flaws that would be fatal if they were released today. So yes, I would expect people who aren't idiots to understand that I am going to be pointing out flaws in their sacred cows. When I acknowledge that these games have their positives, it's to prevent people from coming in and saying "yeah, but X did Y and Y was really cool, you didn't mention that at all!", except I forgot that the IQ of the average internet dweller is in the negative, so they are somehow missing all of that. It's almost like critical thinking and the ability to comprehend what is read are useful skills.

 

I don't need to have an account, or even to have played the game back then to understand how the mechanics worked when I have A]. the internet, and B]. first-hand reports from people who did play. Likewise, I can give you a detailed rundown on the rules and regulations of the NFL, despite not playing gridiron football myself. It's fascinating what one can learn when they have access to the internet. It's like they don't need first hand experience.

 

But if you want to keep missing the point and misunderstanding, by all means.

[This_Punk86]

They're right to a degree.

 

Things are getting dumber on the whole.

 

Too much to read, skimmed.Saw this, scrolled back up.....*times passes*

yea i agree for the most part.

 

Skyrim is a keynote on this, dont believe go back an play Oblivion and then skyrim and try to tell me how much more indepth the system is in skyrim over oblivion....or go Here and listen, I will be proven right.Its near end of episode prob last 20 mins or so

[ObserverStatus]

*busts out the N64*

 

Sue me.

do a barrel roll

[Johnnie Walker]

Get outta here with that N64 b.s. Johnnie.

Dreamcast lyfe all day errday!

 

[CrazyRah]

*busts out the N64*

 

Sue me.

 

Such a ****** great console!

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

do a barrel roll

Peppy is such a ******. But at least he isn't Slippy-tier useless. N64 confirmed for best gaming console.

[ApocAlypsE007]

http://tvtropes.org/...gedItNowItSucks

[Fast Jimmy]

You're well aware that I never stated that liking older games was a problem, right? Because you seem to be getting a bit defensive with this.

In your OP, you call people liking old games over the new, and I quote, "unrelentingly retarded."

[Fast Jimmy]

Peppy is such a ******. But at least he isn't Slippy-tier useless. N64 confirmed for best gaming console.

On behalf of the SNES Blitzkrieg, I formally place you under arrest for heresy.

[Puzzlewell]

Don't worry, Hats, I still prefer ME1 as well. :3 Nostalgia goggles be damned.

I can't comment too much on WoW's "hey day" in that I left shortly after TBC came out and didn't return til around the end of MoP. The only real complaint I have is is not getting to experience Wrath when it was current content though I can still say that it's my favorite expack for sure after all the catch up I've done.