234 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

Yeah, you got that right. The issue was not missing the tactical depth and the controls adjusted to the controller optimized mmo hack&slash action gameplay Inquisition offers. No, the real problem was the controls were too hard to learn and to handle. Because of this i and a lot of other incompetent people just like me probably couldnt beat the game even on easy . It all comes down to incompetence. This was sarcasm. I started on Nightmare but when i realized the whole game was hack&slash with squad members, not tactical gameplay, i switched to deafult difficulty and finished it for the story.

Hey, I only went there because people were whining about the game being "unplayable." Remember how we got here?

You're not being very clear about why the controls don't work for you. Which is fairly typical for a thread like this. (I know why the controls work for Sylvius, for instance -- he isn't interested in hack-and-slash, and never gets out of tac cam in combat. But Sylvius is fairly unusual for this board in that he can actually articulate his own tastes coherently.)

Not understanding the bold line was the reason for the giga thread i mentioned. .

Oh, I understood the bold line; you can learn about tactical depth from a vid, sure. I just don't see what it has to do with the controls.

[AlexiaRevan]

So...you're assuming that Fallout 4 will have a great story alongside exploration.

 

Unless you're one of the people who play before release with a reviewer's copy or are one of the people who play-test the game, it's simply not possible to say with certainty that it'll be awesome or if it'll suck.

 

The hype for ME3 was through the roof, and most people I know were fully expecting a high quality game, which it was, until they got to the last ten minutes. And the last ten minutes, to some, ruined the whole trilogy to them. 

 

I'm not saying the same will happen to Fallout 4, but I am saying that it's impossible to say that its developers are guaranteed to do a much better job than Bioware because you've been disappointed with a few of the recent games from Bioware, you can only assume they'll be better.

 

Which again, is pointless. It's comparing the quality of one game that isn't out, hasn't been reviewed and isn't finished being made yet in comparison to another game that isn't out yet, and that makes no sense logically. 

No..

 

I'm not a fan of Fallout serie...

 

and what irk me with nowdays Games are the EXPLORATION...

 

I be happy with a Game that drag my nose from beginning to the end . But give me EXPLORATION and I'm bored to tears....

 

I don't care about expecting . Tis was the 1st time I followed a game this closely..I usually I'm late into getting them..years Late 

 

I just go with 'let see if this will be better then DAI or worse'...and we go from there....

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

I still don't get what was supposedly so bad about the KBM controls for DAI. Aside from a single missing feature (LMB+RMB to walk), I can't think of anything else I would have wanted to change about the controls that wouldn't have also been a change in how the game worked.

 

How about mouse panning in tactical mode, instead of driving around a  cursor ala controller play? Or maybe inventory and crafting screens that actually work properly with a mouse and keyboard?

[Gago]

All I need is a new PC and I am settled for Andromeda.

[Sylvius the Mad]

How about mouse panning in tactical mode, instead of driving around a cursor ala controller play?

Driving the camera using WASD is exactly how the camera control works in the Total War games. It's hardly a controller-centric design. The targeting reticule on the ground is silly, but it can also be largely ignored, because the mouse cursor can do everything it can do.

Now, the Total War games also allow edge-panning (and even using WASD and edge-panning together to increase camera speed), but edge panning is tricky if there are clickable UI elements near the edge of the screen. People would end up panning by accident, and that would frustrate them.

I had asked specifically for Total War style camera controls, and that's basically what we got. I'm really pleased with the Tac Cam we got in DAI.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Or maybe inventory and crafting screens that actually work properly with a mouse and keyboard?

How do they not work properly?

The controls are weird, sure, but they do work.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

How do they not work properly?

The controls are weird, sure, but they do work.

 

You click on the first inventory item, then scroll or delete, the cursor snaps back to the middle item, instead of going to the second item. It's just annoying, and clear it was a half assed implementation. Either do it properly or make it pure controller focused like Mass Effect was. Pick one method or the other. Don't do both.

 

It's not just that they are weird, it's that they promised proper mouse and keyboard controls and didn't even try to deliver.

 

As for the tac cam. Eh, I didn't like it so rarely used it. If you were happy with it, great. They could also have used click to drag. Again, the main problem for me was that it was obviously designed only for controller use, with mouse as an afterthought.

[Amirit]

I still don't get what was supposedly so bad about the KBM controls for DAI. Aside from a single missing feature (LMB+RMB to walk), I can't think of anything else I would have wanted to change about the controls that wouldn't have also been a change in how the game worked.

 

You've got to be kidding! It's not the question of "which feature do you miss", it's a matter of the very concept of UI. You need an UI designed for KBM? Look at any MMO (aside from ESO or FF - which are inherently console games). If UI is designed with KBM in mind, it means freedom of using both - keyboard and mouse. Freedom of binding EVERY action to some combination of keys, no endless tables and excessive clicking, no lists of sub-menus, everything should be soleved by one or double click. 

With controllers (limited keys and no free movement of cursor on the screen) your UI is based on tabs and switching between active options. It's totally different concept! 

 

So, yes, we are missing the whole PC UI, while we were PROMISED openly by developers "a game from PC gamers to PC gamers". And instead of at least apology for a poor adaptation of console UI and admission of "necessary sacrifice" (as CDProject did when they had to cut down graphics in order to make the game playable on console) we've got silence and clumsy attempts to somehow make that console UI a bit more KBM friendly. I personally only mad about that part.

[Sylvius the Mad]

You've got to be kidding! It's not the question of "which feature do you miss", it's a matter of the very concept of UI.

Controls and UI are different things. I was asking about the controls.

The UI is bad, but BioWare hasn't made a good UI since NWN (released 2002), so that's hardly a surprise.

[Sylvius the Mad]

You click on the first inventory item, then scroll or delete, the cursor snaps back to the middle item, instead of going to the second item. It's just annoying, and clear it was a half assed implementation. Either do it properly or make it pure controller focused like Mass Effect was. Pick one method or the other. Don't do both.

If you just ignore the mouse cursor, it is a controller-centric design. Scroll with mouse, and select items only when they're in the middle.

As for the tac cam. Eh, I didn't like it so rarely used it. If you were happy with it, great. They could also have used click to drag. Again, the main problem for me was that it was obviously designed only for controller use, with mouse as an afterthought.

Except that the mouse cursor is an integral part of the design. How do you select targets beyond the range of the camera reticule without the mouse?

[Amirit]

It is ported to the PC - yes. The port is there. But simple addition of ability to use mouse cursor makes the whole UI a console UI with the mouse - nothing more. Like connecting a mouse to the console. The core design of the UI remains a console design for the reasons I mentioned before. 

I was promised a Porsche and got mini-car at best and without even so much as apology. Forgive me if I do not like it.

[AlanC9]

You click on the first inventory item, then scroll or delete, the cursor snaps back to the middle item, instead of going to the second item. It's just annoying, and clear it was a half assed implementation. Either do it properly or make it pure controller focused like Mass Effect was. Pick one method or the other. Don't do both.

I don't follow. Is that behavior more acceptable with a controller? I've never used a controller, but I can't see how they'd make that work better,

[In Exile]

I don't follow. Is that behavior more acceptable with a controller? I've never used a controller, but I can't see how they'd make that work better,

 

The scrolling is different. The centre item is the only one you can select; the other imagines are there to show you the following (or previous) items in the list. It's a different use of screen real-estate from a mouse-centric scheme, where all of the items visible are equally selectible and interactable. 

[Stakrin]

If I found nothing else about this game than the 30 second trailer I saw, I would buy the game right now.

[SporkFu]

If I found nothing else about this game than the 30 second trailer I saw, I would buy the game right now.

This.

I've already got money set aside for the pre-order just because MAKO.... kidding, it's just because Mass Effect. 

[kalasaurus]

No because I want to experience the game and be surprised (in a good way, hopefully lol)

[Schmonozov]

Yes, because I'm an informed consumer that doesn't see the point in loyalty or having trust in a company that has a history of lying in promo material and greed.

[Obsidian Gryphon]

How much of it do you watch?

 

If it's cut up into parts, usually the first chapter, I watch the first part. If it's too short, like say, 5 mins, I'll go on until I get the gist of the gameplay / story / setting.

[PlatonicWaffles]

Honestly, I know I'm gonna inevitably pre-order the Collector's Edition for it. But I understand why other people are cautious.

[Broganisity]

I buy games on impulse, if it is a game/game series I am aware of, or if a reliable source/informant shows me a game I think is fun. In the case of that leter, I won't watch a whole playthrough; a simple gameplay demonstration suffices

.

[Sartoz]

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My stance has not changed.

I will read the magazines' reviews with disdain and will wait to read the ME:A forums to get a much better picture. Especially those commenting the PC version of the game. Then, make a buy/no buy decision... then wait a bit longer for the price to come down.

 

Bio, you can thank DA:I

[Elhanan]

<<<<<<<<<<()>>>>>>>>>>
 
My stance has not changed.
I will read the magazines' reviews with disdain and will wait to read the ME:A forums to get a much better picture. Especially those commenting the PC version of the game. Then, make a buy/no buy decision... then wait a bit longer for the price to come down.
 
Bio, you can thank DA:I

Me too! Thanks for DAI!

[Sartoz]

Driving the camera using WASD is exactly how the camera control works in the Total War games. It's hardly a controller-centric design. The targeting reticule on the ground is silly, but it can also be largely ignored, because the mouse cursor can do everything it can do.

Now, the Total War games also allow edge-panning (and even using WASD and edge-panning together to increase camera speed), but edge panning is tricky if there are clickable UI elements near the edge of the screen. People would end up panning by accident, and that would frustrate them.

I had asked specifically for Total War style camera controls, and that's basically what we got. I'm really pleased with the Tac Cam we got in DAI.

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Glad to hear someone is pleased.

 

I and other PC gamers feel we were totally *****ed with the KB+M controls as we expected DA:O DA2 style. The DA:I are unintuitive coming from those two earlier games. Besides, didn't Mike Laidlaw specifically say "A PC Game for PC Games by PC Gamers"?  and " we went back to our roots"? 

 

I don't know about you, but a Dragon Age game going back to "our roots" strongly suggests DA:O and DA2 and that means the same intuitive PC KB+M controls.

[pdusen]

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Glad to hear someone is pleased.

 

I and other PC gamers feel we were totally *****ed with the KB+M controls as we expected DA:O DA2 style. The DA:I are unintuitive coming from those two earlier games. Besides, didn't Mike Laidlaw specifically say "A PC Game for PC Games by PC Gamers"?  and " we went back to our roots"? 

 

I don't know about you, but a Dragon Age game going back to "our roots" strongly suggests DA:O and DA2 and that means the same intuitive PC KB+M controls.

 

Meanwhile, I and other PC gamers feel the controls are fine. Different, I'll grant you. Surprisingly different from DA:O and DA2, I'll grant you for about the first ten minutes. Not broken, not unintuitive. Fine.

 

To be honest, I don't see how any of what you quoted Mike Laidlaw as saying conflicts with the actual state of the controls. I don't think "we went back to our roots" was even talking about the controls. If the game controlled like Baldur's Gate, that would be downright awful.

 

And frankly, as a so-called PC gamer, I'd expect you to be a lot less sensitive to something as commonplace as a game with different controls. I have to relearn controls for practically every game I play.

[SlottsMachine]

No. Why would I want a bunch of spoilers before getting a game? If I'm interested, I buy it. If not, I don't.